I've got a working idea for an additive into an existing product on the market that I don't own to improve it. How best can I go about marketing/commercializing this on my own? It's not something I can sell separately for customers to add themselves, it must be integrated with the product before purchase, but I don't know the legality of selling a product somebody else owns, even if I've made changes to it to make it better/different


i guess in a crude basic analogy it would be like going to the grocery store, buying ingredients for a pizza using brand-name products, then making the pizza and trying to resell it as my own?

or maybe more like buying a brand-name frozen cheese pizza, adding pepperoni and onions, then trying to resell it as my own?

the first way sounds like it would be legit, while the second way sounds like it would be some sort of copyright/trademark infringement.


my idea isn't pizza, btw. Thanks for any advice

5/31/2011 2:26:22 PM

Save up $10K, call a decent patent attorney (who should quote you around $6K-$8K) and spend the rest on quality drawings and diagrams from an artist (if you're not going the solidworks style printouts.)

Then take that patent and sell it for royalties or outright to someone who knows how to manufacture whatever you're trying to describe.

5/31/2011 2:35:43 PM

Thing is, I know how to do it myself, and I am thinking to start a business doing it. But I can't just resell an existing market product that I've altered and relabel it as my own. Do I need to reinvent their product from scratch? That part i'm not sure how to do.

5/31/2011 2:38:25 PM

It's completely legal. This is how automotive aftermarket companies work (Saleen, Lingenfelter et al). There are also equivalents to this in software and consumer electronics.

As long as your "improvements" don't circumvent copyright or other IP of the original product, you're fine.

I was going to recommend filing a Patent Disclosure form, but I see they discontinued that in 2007 That used to be the way to buy yourself time to market the patent for licensing before paying the exorbitant costs of the actual patent.

This was replaced by provisional patents, which work much the same way. Cost is $110, and you have 12 months from the filing date to file a non-provisional patent on the same claims. This will give you a year to figure out if your idea is worth the investment in a full patent.

5/31/2011 2:40:43 PM

a good answer is going to depend on what the product is and how the patent(s) is/are written assuming some exist. so unless you spill the beans, the best advice is to talk to a patent attorney. you can probably get a free consultation, but you will have to pay them to do patent research.

google can search patents if you want to start

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 2:42 PM. Reason : but don't spill the beans here, because that might count as publishing which hurts your patentabilit]

5/31/2011 2:41:06 PM

At TWW, we don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy better.

5/31/2011 2:41:53 PM

what if the idea is pretty simple though, not like anything super new or original, just a cool idea. Like opening a cookie store. You're making your own cookies, but you don't need to patent them, right? They're just cookies.

I really know nothing about the law.

5/31/2011 2:44:11 PM

if something is obvious, it can't be patented

5/31/2011 2:46:31 PM

No you dont have to patent anything.

You can simply sell your improved version.

But there is nothing stopping the original manufacturer from copying your implementation and adding it to the original without compensating you at all.

5/31/2011 2:47:02 PM

^I guess that's true too.

5/31/2011 2:47:51 PM

Quote :

"if something is obvious, it can't be patented"

Not true. A patent isn't on an idea, it's on an implementation. A new implementation to an obvious idea is absolutely patentable.

5/31/2011 2:47:56 PM

it has to be a non-obvious revision to be patentable.

http://www.bitlaw.com/patent/requirements.html


but with that being said, adding or changing a material is generally considered non-obvious

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

5/31/2011 2:49:42 PM

^4 that right there is the sole basis of my recommendation. Unless you have something stupid awesome you'd be much better off pulling in royalties of $800 for the next 5 years than trying to compete. If you don't play ball they'll just come up with something similar, then bury you in a million dollars of advertising and "distributor incentives"

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 2:51 PM. Reason : ^'s]

5/31/2011 2:51:04 PM

http://www.patentattorneyirvine.com/qa/do-i-need-patent-to-sell-my-teeth-whitening-paste


i googled this and although i didnt invent teeth-whitening paste its a similar situation, so maybe i should consider patenting.


Was kinda hoping to save a few bucks

5/31/2011 3:02:53 PM

do what I said in my first reply

A provisional patent is $110 bucks. It gets you a YEAR to decide on whether it's financially worthwhile to pursue a full patent.

5/31/2011 3:33:01 PM

The provisional also lets you find an investor to help diffray the costs of filing.

5/31/2011 3:37:48 PM

If its a solution that would be simple and obvious to an expert in the field/product then it has a very hard time getting patented.

If it is a solution that is simple but not obvious to an expert in the field then it has a strong chance to be patented.

A plus is proven commercial success (you're selling product), because if it WAS obvious then someone would have done it already.

This is what our patent attorney has told me. My idea falls into line 2 and 3.

I believe technically you could sell the product without a patent while still filing for a patent, the key being you have a proven, signed, dated note or what not of when you came up with the idea. This would be a patent pending product. In a case of conflict of patents (lawsuit), it would come down to whoever came up with the idea first I think.

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 3:38 PM. Reason : hjk]

5/31/2011 3:38:11 PM

Now back to the good part!!

5/31/2011 3:56:51 PM

call my main man clarence mcghee for free information

5/31/2011 3:58:45 PM

FROM THE DAY HE WAS BORN, HE YEARNED FOR ADVENTURE

5/31/2011 4:32:08 PM

I realize this thread is about selling additives for existing products.... which I have not. Hear me out, maybe I can offer some insight.

I am in outside sales, which is currently salary+commission, but will move into straight commission starting at the beginning of July 2010. I have been in this position since July 2009. I have competition from several direct manufacturing sales reps, large distributors, and local distributors. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of each:

Direct Advantages: Immediate knowledge of new technology, no middle man mark up, one shipping bill (paid by manufacturer or buyer of goods), access to larger range of non-commodity items, control inventory, have access to many distributors that can effectively sell their goods which increases market share, and set prices of commodity they manufacture.

Direct disadvantages: Typically have 1-3 sales reps per region (i.e. southeast, mid-atlantic, northeast, etc.) limiting the number of accounts they can successfully manage/cold-call, lack physical customer service or physical technical service available to or affordable for smaller users or altogether, are sometimes not trustworthy because they will go in behind their distributors that sell their commodity to one account in large quantities (i.e. they missed a big account, and have found out about it through a distributor selling their particular product) which leads to the distributor not selling their product anymore, have too many distributors selling the product ultimately driving the set price down through deviations, possibly rely on distributors to actually sell the product, and competition from other direct sources.

Large distributor advantages: have access to other commodities that go hand in hand with other manufacturers (poor example- grocery stores sell milk as well as cereal), get direct pricing, many locations regionally or nationally easing the shipping burden of buyers with multiple locations, personal service either customer or technical, many sales reps that are able to cover a broader territory, access to multiple manufacturers of the same commodity allowing to keep prices in check, service programs that smaller companies can't offer and direct providers can't match in price or value, and experts of many many commodities as opposed to one or a few.

Large distributor disadvantages: smaller local distributors creating price wars (think Michael Scott Paper Co vs Dunder-Mifflin), direct mfg's going in behind and stealing business, limited access to all of the mfg's (you won't find Harris Teeter name brands in Food Lion and visa versa), can't truly set prices because it's based on both supply and demand, territory management, and tough growth prospects in slower economies (this is true for direct as well really)

Local distributor advantages: Typically a good ol' boy setting where the seller and the buyer know each other for years (this does happen at all levels, but mostly at the local level), local folks are right down the street and can be used in emergencies, if the local guy buys at high enough volumes then there is no shipping charge to the end user, and access to both direct mfg's and large distributors.

Local distributor disadvantages: easily beaten in price, array of commodities, array of technology, lack of trained staff, low cash flow, etc etc etc.

This is what I have noticed in my six months, I am sure there are plenty more that need mentioning. The way I am setting myself apart as a sales person is this: I go after the big accounts right now while I am new. The big accounts, if I land them, will take care of me while I am new and building a customer base. The money made off of those allows me to focus free time on smaller accounts that get me higher margins. I build up big accounts, I would like to have 5-10 of these, then get 20-30 medium accounts. If I lose 1 or 2 big accounts, the 20-30 medium accounts keep me afloat while I go after new big accounts. I don't really waste time on small accounts simply because they basically pay for breakfast or something really small.

I will say this, if you can't get a big account in the first 6-8 months (assuming you have cash flow that you can ride this long) you could be in a world of trouble. If you can get one, it will really make going after the others a lot more enjoyable and less stressful. It's simply just very exhausting wasting any time on anything other than big accounts in the very beginning. You work just as hard on the medium sized accounts and see 1/3 to 1/36 of the money in my situation.

If you have any other questions, you can PM me. I hope this helps in the slightest!

5/31/2011 4:34:50 PM

Quote :

"At TWW, we don't make a lot of the products you buy. We make a lot of the products you buy better. "

Haha glad I'm not the only one who thought of that.

5/31/2011 4:43:34 PM

Most people start out going door to door selling their idea... like one 10 year old kid did who sold candles. Candles already exist and are scented. This kid however saw that they were all girly smells and decides to make manly smelling candles like pizza aroma and engine rust lol. Long story short, people from school and the neighborhood started buying them faster than he could produce them so they expanded into a real business location.


If it gets to the point where people love your idea and want to reorder without asking, faster than you can produce them from your own home, then you have yourself a marketable product.

[Edited on May 31, 2011 at 5:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/31/2011 5:02:53 PM

Putting heroin into childrens tylenol is not a sound business.

5/31/2011 6:56:24 PM