Quote :

"H.RES.365 Latest Title: Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that Congress should cut the United States' true debt burden by reducing home mortgage balances, forgiving student loans, and bringing down overall personal debt. Sponsor: Rep Clarke, Hansen [MI-13] (introduced 7/22/2011) Cosponsors (12) Latest Major Action: 7/22/2011 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on Financial Services, and in addition to the Committee on Education and the Workforce, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.SUMMARY AS OF: 7/22/2011--Introduced. Expresses the sense of the House of Representatives that: (1) reducing the rate of personal debt is as vital to our economic health as addressing the federal debt and debt limit; and (2) Congress should cut our true debt burden by reducing home mortgage balances, forgiving student loans, and bringing down overall personal debt. Declares that helping U.S. citizens become free of debt to promote personal financial security and to strengthen the nation's economy should be a top priority of the United States."

Petition for the bill: http://signon.org/sign/want-a-real-economic?source=s.tw&r_by=686473

9/15/2011 5:08:58 PM

how?

9/15/2011 5:19:52 PM

How about stop going for CHASS majors, get a decent paying job, and then pay off your loans.

And some people/professions don't require a college degree, so stop stuffing your kids into college just to get massive debt and a worthless piece of paper.

9/15/2011 5:19:59 PM

well the federal student loans who aren't delinquent status could be forgiven, but i don't think the government could mandate private companies forgiving debt

although i do agree with ^ sentiment

9/15/2011 5:24:57 PM

I hope this doesn't go through.
But if it does I'm going to get every dollar of it I can.

9/15/2011 5:34:31 PM

seems like a pretty slippery slope

9/15/2011 5:35:14 PM

Just when representatives were thought to be at the lowest level of intelligence...

9/15/2011 5:38:54 PM

I need to hurry up and buy a million plus dollar house that I can't afford in Chapel Hill so the government will forgive the debt for me. That makes sense.

Paid off my loans and paying off the wife's loan now.

9/15/2011 5:39:19 PM

The student loan bubble is gonna go boom either way. These people graduating from 4th tier law schools with 100k in debt? They're never going to pay that off. There has to be some process for declaring bankruptcy, unless we want an entire generation of debt slaves.

Is this the way to do it? Probably not.

Quote :

"Just when representatives were thought to be at the lowest level of intelligence..."

Come on, you know this isn't about intelligence. They're politically intelligent, and this will help them stay in office. That's all that matters.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 6:01 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2011 5:42:01 PM

Quote :

"I hope this doesn't go through. But if it does I'm going to get every dollar of it I can."

9/15/2011 5:46:07 PM

Don't they realize this is America? If you forgive student loan dept they are just gonna turn that into some other debt.

9/15/2011 5:57:25 PM

so let me get this right.

Tax dollars for buying a house
Tax dollars for buying a car
Tax dollars used to pay off student loans.


Shit if i'd known all this i'd just spend everything i have every week because obviously some is going to cover my ass no matter what i do.


GIVING PEOPLE MONEY/ERASING DEBT will not teach them how to be fiscally responsible. They will be right back in the same spot in a few years without learning a damn thing.

The only way to 'fix' this problem is for people to develop personal financial discipline and that will not happen if you just keep bailing them out.

Quote :

"These people graduating from 4th tier law schools with 100k in debt? "

And you know what, thats entirely their fault

9/15/2011 6:03:53 PM

People get into debt. What happens when you buy a house and can't make the payments? You default. What happens when you buy a car and can't make the payments? You default. What happens when you take out student loans and can't make the payments? You're stuck with the debt forever, the interest rate keeps going up, you have no hope of ever getting out of debt, and you probably have a useless degree as well.

Fact of the matter is that the government stoked the fire with respect to student loans, though universities are as much to blame. Creditors haven't been keeping up with due diligence, so I'd say they're just as much on the hook for losses as the students.

9/15/2011 6:14:50 PM

Is someone going to give my parents the money they spent for my college back too?

9/15/2011 6:44:41 PM

Quote :

"I hope this doesn't go through. But if it does I'm going to get every dollar of it I can."

9/15/2011 6:59:22 PM

REOPEN THE DEBTORS PRISONS

9/15/2011 7:00:21 PM

Quote :

"These people graduating from 4th tier law schools with 100k in debt?"

My buddy graduated from a 2nd tier law school and has $250,000 in debt. No job or prospects, but he gets to put "Doctor"* and "MBA" on his business cards.


* - Apparently, Juris Doctorate counts as doctor.

9/15/2011 7:18:19 PM

I'll be waiting for my refund for the student loans I already paid off....

Oh wait, this is only for those who got a worthless degree and can't find a job. That makes sense, reward those people.

9/15/2011 7:28:24 PM

Why do you assume the only people with student loan debt are those without jobs?

9/15/2011 8:40:27 PM

Because he's fucking stupid

9/15/2011 8:46:54 PM

I'll be a debt slave until I die, so I'm all for this bill.


Any assistance would be awesome, since I can't seem to catch a fucking break in the job market.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 9:00 PM. Reason : it's not always a matter of not paying... it's a matter of not being able to pay. ]

9/15/2011 8:59:09 PM

Quote :

"What happens when you take out student loans and can't make the payments? You're stuck with the debt forever, the interest rate keeps going up, you have no hope of ever getting out of debt, and you probably have a useless degree as well."

^This.
It is mind blowing we encourage young people with no assets to take large amounts of debt & then declare it non-dischargeable.

9/15/2011 9:25:14 PM

Is someone going to give my parents the money they spent for my college back too?

Or how about the cash my girlfriend and I are paying on her loans? Should we just stop paying on it?

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 9:44 PM. Reason : hj]

9/15/2011 9:43:53 PM

Quote :

"I'll be a debt slave until I die, so I'm all for this bill."

Sounds like you need to re prioritize the financial aspect of your life and quit being a pro-handout bum. There's always a way to pay (without defaulting via bankruptcy). It may/may not be your case, but most people aren't willing to do what is necessary to get out of the debt cycle. Cut expenses, get another job. There are ways, but most require you to work harder than you care to allow yourself.

Holy hell. I should probably quit my full time job and get a $20k student loan so that instead of RESPONSIBLY taking care of my finances I can just bum the money from the government and all the other tax payers and just get it "forgiven." This is a ludicrous bill. Telling people, "Hey, you got in over your head with debt, so let's help you out" is like telling a kid who's stealing, "That's not right to take what isn't yours, but we'll forgive you and you can keep what you've been caught stealing." No one will learn financial responsibility because there are no repercussions to spending. People in this country fall back on loans like they are entitled to them. You want to help U.S. citizens become free of debt? STOP accepting student loan applications like candy handouts during Halloween. The government shouldn't be involved with home mortgages, unless of course they are originally government funded/assisted. Would I like for my own mortgage to be reduced? Hell yeah! But it's not right. I knew what I was getting myself into by taking out a mortgage. Besides, forgiving loans and reducing mortgage balances only move the debt from the left pocket to the right, and in the end, it'll screw me over in taxes. Fuck. This. Bill.


Instead of giving students loans for college, how about they start with the basics and use that same money to provide better funding for Elementary, Junior High, and High Schools? Our public school salaries suck and I am shocked that one of the most fundamental systems is invested so poorly. You need education to help build and maintain a strong country, especially one as big as the U.S. If teacher's benefits/pay were increased, the demand for those positions would increase. Competition helps improve quality of workers which would thus impact student performance. Your students are better educated with a stronger foundation in core subjects and perhaps even greater diversification of knowledge of subjects. On top of that, no one is in debt and EVERYONE can benefit from the money "invested" rather than a single individual.



[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 10:15 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 10:05:14 PM

Quote :

"Is someone going to give my parents the money they spent for my college back too?"

This. For serious.

9/15/2011 10:13:58 PM

Quote :

"Sounds like you need to re prioritize the financial aspect of your life and quit being a pro-handout bum."

How much do you make per year? Any idea how long it will take someone to pay back 250k on top of every other expense it takes to live?

9/15/2011 10:21:41 PM

This really makes me glad I worked through college to minimize the amount of loans I would have to take out. At least I'm not that far away from paying them all off.

9/15/2011 10:24:16 PM

Quote :

"How much do you make per year?"

Not anyone's business to know. Plus I don't see the relevance.

Quote :

"Any idea how long it will take someone to pay back 250k on top of every other expense it takes to live?"

$250k?! That's well into mortgage-debt territory! Accepting debt like that is just irresponsible IMO. Debt like that I can understand it taking 40+ years to pay off. Again, you just have to start living life much more frugal and focus on your priorities. Take a second job (assuming you have one) while searching one in your field of study. Try to avoid taking on additonal debt (car payment, mortgage, etc) until your debt is under "control" (ie: paid off). People have accepted debt as a standard/status quo/way of life. It's OK and acceptable to be in debt now. We need to get out of that mind frame. Live in a cheap apartment with a roommate. Learn to cook and prepare your own meals (if your single, I know this can be hard/inconvenient, but it can be healthier and MUCH cheaper than going out.) Minimize personal expenses (cell phone, television, electronic gadgets, etc). If you can, start investing money in markets with higher returns to allow your money to work for you in helping pay debt.

There are ways. It really comes down to living a simplified life, getting out of a materialistic mindset, and working really hard. No one forced anyone to take on that kind of debt.

If you can't get scholarships to fund your college expenses, you shouldn't consider taking out a loan either.


Expense it takes to live are not as high as people inflate them to be. Yes it depends on where you live, however, there are always options. Needs vs Wants... It's all about priorities.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 10:34:50 PM

If you have 250k in studnet loan debt and no way to pay it its nit the markets fault you screwed the pooch all by youself. That is more debt than undergrad at state + a car + a freaking house. If you are taking out that much you need to have a very well thought out plan with god analysis of the job market.

9/15/2011 10:39:27 PM

^ +1 Also, if you have connections (ie: family business) to the job market, then I can reasonably understand. Otherwise, getting into debt like that with an optimistic view of acquiring a career that can pay back the debt is naive and absurd



[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 10:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 10:41:20 PM

Quote :

"People have accepted debt as a standard/status quo/way of life. It's OK and acceptable to be in debt now."

So basically never buy a car or a house for as long as you live?

9/15/2011 10:50:51 PM

I don't like this at all.

9/15/2011 10:51:49 PM

i mean they are gonna forgive all this debt for people who cant pay

what are they gonna do for me since i have never been late on the car, house, or student loan?

9/15/2011 11:01:51 PM

Quote :

"So basically never buy a car or a house for as long as you live?"

Way to troll Saunders. You know, you could SAVE and pay cash for stuff. Or rather take out a loan with a substantial amount of cash to fall back on "just in case..." Just because you may never save enough cash to buy a brand new Ferrari off the show room floor doesn't mean you can't ever pay cash for a car. There are plenty of decent/reliable cars used for around $5k. Or save a bit more, and get a new car for $15k. Like I've stated in my previous posts, PRIORITIZE needs and wants. An $11k Nissan Versa is great basic transportation. Just because it doesn't have a whole lot of power, vanity mirrors, leather seats, HID headlights, or navigation doesn't make it any less of a vehicle. It'll get you where you need to go reliable and with pretty good mileage. Sure you may have to rent for a good majority of your life if you want to pay for your house cash, but it's possible. Hell, that's how my friends parents did it. They didn't live in the flashiest of apartments, but they were able to settle down at age 42 and BUILD their house with cash in hand. Besides, who says you need to BUY a house to live? Sometimes, I really wish I didn't have a house but rather lived in a carefree apartment...

^ It's socialism. Let's help bring those up who are "under" you at your expense. You'd want that kind of help if the roles were switched, right? I'm sure you understand and the government appreciates your help

Oh.. just a reminder of how ridiculous this is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVpuOTPPcQ

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 11:08:17 PM

Quote :

"$250k?! That's well into mortgage-debt territory! Accepting debt like that is just irresponsible IMO."

someone doesn't know how much law-school costs

9/15/2011 11:10:16 PM

I know how much law school can cost. Unless that person had pretty promising "in" at a law firm owned by a friend, family, or someone close who could them out with a position after college, it's a huge gamble. Time to pay up. No one said you had to go to law school or take out a loan...

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 11:16 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 11:15:59 PM

so, only people with connections should be lawyers. no way that could turn out badly

9/15/2011 11:16:51 PM

I don't know who you are or how you know me, so that's creepy.

Anyway, it's pretty damn impractical to buy a house with cash unless you're already super rich. You would have to rent for like 40 years, so you're just paying out a steady stream that could go on a mortgage, and you get nothing to show for it at the end. Not to mention that you don't have any other money for other savings/investments if you're saving it all for a mortgage; same with a car payment to a lesser extent. It's way too big an investment to just save up $150,000 under your mattress.

9/15/2011 11:19:30 PM

Someone should have looked into how many jobs are available for lawyers and how many new law school graduates there are each year and done a risk/reward assessment.

If your chosen profession is over saturated with fresh grads maybe consider other options before burdening yourself with a crushing amount of debt.

Personal responsibility, people.

9/15/2011 11:20:57 PM

Quote :

" Sounds like you need to re prioritize the financial aspect of your life and quit being a pro-handout bum. There's always a way to pay (without defaulting via bankruptcy). It may/may not be your case, but most people aren't willing to do what is necessary to get out of the debt cycle. Cut expenses, get another job. There are ways, but most require you to work harder than you care to allow yourself. "

LOL

I'd do anything to get out of my debt.

You, my friend, have no idea.

I'll work 3 jobs if i have to. But right now I've not had luck finding one. I'm either way under-qualified or way overqualified. Hiring managers don't like either one bit.

But, for the record, doing anything to get out of debt includes letting the government take it off my hands.

If I kill someone, I pay my debt off in 10 years. If I go to college plus law school and pay my own way, I'm lucky if I pay off my debt in 30. Yeah, that's cool.

9/15/2011 11:23:09 PM

For the record, my undergrad is paid off and I only have $45k in law school debt, so it's not like I'm borrowing outrageously

But anyway my point is if we want to stimulate the economy, this probably ain't a bad way to get people to spend money

9/15/2011 11:26:33 PM

You don't have to be super rich. You could invest the money and let help work for you. Renting, especially at a young age, has a lot of benefits. Ability to move easily so you can take advantage of career/market opportunities is a huge one for young adults. Apartments are also "care free" since maintenance is not your problem. They can offer bonus amenities (ie; free water, free cable, free internet, swimming pool, gym to work out, nearby grocery stores or shopping centers, nearby bus route for cheaper public transportation, etc). Houses come with a LOT of expenses. These expenses add up over the years. Generally speaking, living in an apartment makes much more financial sense than buying a house. Condominiums can go either way. You have to get in the long term mindset when making these goals. Sure you may have to rent for 25 or 30 years to pay cash for a house, however, over all the wear and tear maintenance items and property taxes are covered. If you live in an apartment and you don't have any money for other savings/investments, you're doing it wrong. You may not have a steady stream of income. If that happens, you may not be able to afford your rent/mortgage. Renting allows you to move to somewhere even cheaper if necessary. With a house, your stuck without an out unless you can sell.

You got to make sure the apartment you live in allows you to save so that you can put extra money to the side for a house or whatever else you may want. In addition, if a "rainy day" comes along, you can tap into your savings rather than go into the "equity" of your house which is just ANOTHER loan.

^

Quote :

"I'm either way under-qualified or way overqualified."

yeahhh. Had a buddy in the same position... That's really a bitch of a position to be in...

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 11:33 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 11:31:00 PM

Yeah, I mean, I agree with most of ^. I'm not even against renting. I'll probably be doing it for a while myself.

But I'm just saying, if you are going to buy a house, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to buy one with cash. Yeah, you won't get foreclosed on if the property values drop precipitously, but I think you're underestimating how long it would take to save that much money in this economy.

I'm hoping not to be in the over/underqualified job when I'm finally done with all my schoolin' in May, but I'm pretty much willing to take anything so we'll see, I guess.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 11:35:20 PM

If a family with a child and one working adult enlisted in the Marine Corps can manage to buy a $165k house cash in a ~25 year period without wiping out the accounts, I can't see how anyone else can't. 25 years is a LONG time, don't get me wrong, but they set realistic goals and got it done. Patience is a rare virtue.

if you had 75% or even 50% of the cash to buy a house and it's a "once in a lifetime" opportunity thing, then getting a loan isn't so bad. You have cash you can fall back on if necessary and if the loan balance is low enough, you can just pay it off. I'm not saying you have to pay for your house in cash, just make sure if you take out a loan you are without a doubt sure you can cover it.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 11:47 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2011 11:45:32 PM

You don't *have* to buy a house with cash to be financially responsible, jesus. That's not the point, its just an example of what is possible these days yet what is lacking from the mindset of the typical American now.

Hiro spitting truth ITT.

--

People who are over/under qualified need to be looking more aggressively for companies, not just open jobs on monster.com, that match their career profile...more so than your general job seeker. I came out of school looking for a position that I was relatively under qualified for yet had lots of experience for it, but at the same time my experience made me very overqualified for typical entry level positions in my major. I ended up finding the perfect company for my skills.

I'm not alone. Look at the unemployment thread. Just about everyone who posts about finding a job is saying that its their dream job. Companies have the pick of the litter these days when they have a position and they know it, so if an applicant is a perfect fit they will pick them, or hell they'll make a position for them. The money is still out there in the (larger) companies, they're holding onto it because who knows what the fuck this crazy administration is going to do next.

Like, say, forgive all student loan debt. Who could even imag-

Oh wait.

9/15/2011 11:45:57 PM

Quote :

"Anyway, it's pretty damn impractical to buy a house with cash unless you're already super rich. You would have to rent for like 40 years, so you're just paying out a steady stream that could go on a mortgage, and you get nothing to show for it at the end. Not to mention that you don't have any other money for other savings/investments if you're saving it all for a mortgage; same with a car payment to a lesser extent. It's way too big an investment to just save up $150,000 under your mattress."

If more people act like that, though, the average house wouldn't be nearly as expensive. Debt creates the need for more debt. Yes, it would require longer periods of saving, but we would all be better off because the economy wouldn't be so fragile. Leverage means increased risk. I'm not against all home loans, but I find a lot of wisdom in the very old school lending standards (or going even tighter than that).

The widespread availability of cheap mortgage credit drives up home prices. The same goes with tuition and student loans. Widespread debt inflates prices, which creates greater need for the debt.

Just like the housing bubble, the tuition bubble will burst. For some reason, everyone thinks busting the tuition bubble is good, but busting the housing bubble is bad. I like cheap prices, and deflation in life's necessities sounds great to me. Releasing the mal-investment in falsely inflated sectors frees up cash for other areas. The process is painful, but it is medicine.

With a little sanity, we could have avoided the problems in the first place.

9/15/2011 11:49:13 PM

What happens when the tuition bubble bursts in this scenario?

[Edited on September 16, 2011 at 12:00 AM. Reason : Additionally - what worked for our parents a generation ago might not today. Different times.]

9/15/2011 11:55:14 PM

It means that tuition rates go down, because fewer people will be willing or able to take on the debt load, or meet lending standards. Lending standards will have to go up when/if default rates become a real problem.

That means a lot of universities would have to do a lot of slashing of jobs, amenities, etc. The resort-like dorm projects will stop. Schools already at the margin (high tuition, low reputation) will suffer the most.

And all of that is fantastic for students, as far as I'm concerned. They'll get roughly the same education for a fraction of the cost. The bursting housing bubble is great for buyers (and will be greater if they keep waiting), and the bursting tuition bubble would be great for students.

Dead-weight administrators, professors in marginally-important departments, and construction crews lose. Community college enrollments and transfers from them will go up. Economically, a lot of people would suffer. But it would be a positive change for the future, just like lower housing prices.

9/16/2011 12:01:15 AM

Oh, I'm retarded, I was thinking you meant a student loan bubble to pay off the tuition. I thought you were saying eventually people would just be forced into not paying off student loans or something

Carry on

9/16/2011 12:03:27 AM

Quote :

"Additionally - what worked for our parents a generation ago might not today. Different times."

I'm going to use this as an excuse to hate on baby boomers. They could get a job during college and pay for school. That was possible. Now, even working nearly full-time, the job will only reduce the amount of debt we have to take. Yet, the degree isn't as valuable as it used to be, and (as an example) the median male income in the United States hasn't risen since the late 60s, adjusted for inflation.

Widespread student loans have diluted the value of the degree due to a falsely-inflated supply of people with degrees, and made degrees more expensive to get due to falsely-inflated demand by students for them.

Meanwhile, upon graduation, incomes haven't changed. They can lecture about personal responsibility all they want (and I'm with them in principle), but these programs have really screwed things up.

9/16/2011 12:17:36 AM