Discuss.

9/28/2011 3:59:04 PM

Focus, fiesta, mazda 3, mazda 2, elantra, Civic, soul.


in no particular order.

those would be the ones i would think about, the rest is mehh

9/28/2011 4:19:48 PM

Any thoughts on the new Chevy Sonic?

9/28/2011 4:24:27 PM

I have put a bit of thought into this. These thoughts have led me in the direction of the Elantra. Haven't driven one yet, but they look good, the specs and pricing are compelling, and the 100K mile warranty is quite nice.

Civic Si wins in a world where I have more money than I do in the real world.

9/28/2011 5:03:31 PM

juke!

9/28/2011 5:11:00 PM

best from what viewpoint?

value for money? design? handling? quality? reliability? mpg? power?

9/28/2011 5:40:21 PM

Suzuki SX4



maybe the Kizashi

[Edited on September 28, 2011 at 7:00 PM. Reason : Their 100,000 mile warranty is transferable between owners allegedly]

[Edited on September 28, 2011 at 7:13 PM. Reason : Hopefully someday they will bring the diesel over from europe]

9/28/2011 6:50:33 PM

my personal choices, in no particular order:

kizashi (between a compact and medium sized car)
elantra
accent
veloster
soul
forte
fiat 500
focus
fiesta
fit
mini cooper
lancer
scion tC

9/28/2011 7:21:48 PM

Quote :

"Civic Si wins in a world where I have more money than I do in the real world."

i'm sorry, but i can't for the life of me understand why someone would buy a brand new Si. if you want an inexpensive reliable car with good gas milage, get the base model (or better yet buy a used civic that already has the majority of depreciation out of the way). if you want a "sporty" car... jesus, buy anything besides the Si. makes noise, hits vtec, makes more noise, and still goes slower than a special ed kid doing calculus.

...imjussayin...

with that said, i vote for a used car (civic, fit, mazda3, whatever) like i already pointed out. way cheaper to buy outright. won't depreciate as badly since it's older. will hold still hold up fine as long as you buy a well-maintained one and continue routinely maintaining it...

9/28/2011 7:23:04 PM

kizashi is waaaaaayyyy too expensive to what you get.

9/28/2011 8:42:09 PM

The elantra sucks. Actually, that's a huge understatement. I had one as a rental and I could not believe what an incredible POS it was. I turned it back in and got a Jetta 2.5 and was much, much happier with that. Every time I see an Elantra on the road, I feel sorry for it's owner.

Civic LX is a pretty nice car (parents own one) in regard to fit and finish, power, gas mileage, and compact utility. I would also consider a Mini Cooper, Fiat 500, Fiesta, and Scion tC.

[Edited on September 28, 2011 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ,]

9/28/2011 8:55:46 PM

^^not saying you are wrong but what are you comparing it too?

[Edited on September 28, 2011 at 10:09 PM. Reason : Im just not sure what class it fits in]

9/28/2011 10:09:15 PM

^^Are you talking about the new Jetta and new Elantra? B/c the new Jetta sucks and the new Elantra is great and is at the top of the class in value, horsepower and gas mileage. And the new Civic is inferior to the last one with a lower grade interior.

bbehe I've read good things about the Sonic. If you think it's an interesting car I would go check it out.

I'm not sure why anyone's discussing the Scion tC. It's a 2 door (which I doubt the OP wants) and it's gas mileage is more or less average.

[Edited on September 29, 2011 at 8:15 AM. Reason : k]

9/29/2011 8:14:24 AM

^^ all i know is when it first came out i was looking at them and they were more in the WRX price range then the loaded elantra price range.

9/29/2011 8:51:17 AM

^^Wondering the same thing. Everything I've heard about the new Elantra has been positive and everything I've heard about the new Jetta has been negative. Also, where on earth did you get a Jetta as a rental?

The tC does have very mediocre gas mileage. 27 MPG highway. For a car that size, unacceptable. Step up your game, Toyota.

Quote :

"i'm sorry, but i can't for the life of me understand why someone would buy a brand new Si. if you want an inexpensive reliable car with good gas milage, get the base model (or better yet buy a used civic that already has the majority of depreciation out of the way). if you want a "sporty" car... jesus, buy anything besides the Si. makes noise, hits vtec, makes more noise, and still goes slower than a special ed kid doing calculus."

The appeal of the Si (to me, anyway) is that it hits that triple point of being economical, reliable, and sporty-ish. A used one would, of course, be a better choice for many applications, but some people like to buy new (especially since lightly-used cars are overpriced at the moment). If you look at other compact, 4-door sporty sedans, you get things like the GTI and the Mazdaspeed 3. Not exactly paragons of reliability in the longer term. (Not to mention the ms3 gets lousy mileage anyway)

[Edited on September 29, 2011 at 9:07 AM. Reason : ]

9/29/2011 9:06:30 AM

what is that website that gives the bell curve of what price people paid for a car?

we're getting our soul in the next couple weeks.

9/29/2011 9:35:06 AM

Quote :

"i'm sorry, but i can't for the life of me understand why someone would buy a brand new Si. if you want an inexpensive reliable car with good gas milage, get the base model (or better yet buy a used civic that already has the majority of depreciation out of the way). if you want a "sporty" car... jesus, buy anything besides the Si. makes noise, hits vtec, makes more noise, and still goes slower than a special ed kid doing calculus."

and it powers the wrong wheels.

I'm with you--the "triple point" referenced (^) to me just kinda means that it mostly sucks at everything. BMW is the only company that I can think of that really makes cars that are legitimately good (though maybe not great) at everything, and then you pay a premium for it. If I'm getting a car for performance, I want it to have a shitload more than the Civic Si brings to the fight. I want it to twist your spine and melt your face. If I'm getting a car for basic transportation, I couldn't give a fuck less if it's sporty or not--a Prius is my kind of A-->B car.

The 2-car solution is where it's at, I'm telling you.

9/29/2011 9:41:03 AM

^^^a lightly used Civic Si (previous gen) is a more fun car to drive than the brand new one and (in most people's opinion) it is better looking. However the newer one gets better gas mileage and has more torque. But seriously, if you're concerned about gas mileage and want something economical why would you consider a car that requires premium fuel?

I say wait a year and buy a turbo Hyundai Veloster

9/29/2011 1:40:09 PM

focus/fiesta ftw!

mazda 3 and civic are expensive

also what about fiat 500?

9/29/2011 1:44:52 PM

I cam close to getting a Fiesta hatchback but for a little more I got a Focus SE hatchback with sport package, 2012 model

It gets 40mpg on the highway like the Fiesta too.

9/29/2011 3:11:13 PM

Duke, I see what you're saying, and I understand that you are a proponent of buying the best tool for the job, whatever the job may be. And if your situation allows you to have multiple vehicles, then that's awesome. Agreed there. But if what I need is a car that gets me from A->B in an economical, reliable fashion, and it's not a good option to buy a "weekday" car and a "weekend" car, why am I sentenced to something slow and anesthetic? Why can't we try to introduce a little enjoyment into the equation? Sure, it's not going to be particuarly excellent at any one thing, but there are times when compromise is needed.

9/29/2011 5:08:45 PM

From a scholarly perspective, I'd say the balance between comfort and performance (I largely define that as transitional behavior more than anything, provided that the power/weight ratio and brakes were acceptable) is superior with a 996 or later 911 than any BMW. The 996 is more fun, and more comfortable (though no modern 911 is as eager to get sideways under power as a recent M3, I'll give them that). I've owned a 911 as an only car for quite some time now, I'm very satisfied. You can pick one up for ~$25k (or a more used one even cheaper), depreciation would be negligible, fun factor to the nth. If you need practicality, the Audi A3 is great.

I recognize that the tone this discussion is taking -> compact = cheap, new/almost new and reliable + so my points are irrelevant. Within that context, the previous Civic Si was actually not a bad drive and rather capable. I still think the A3 w/DSG is a far better and less boring car though.

9/29/2011 7:47:10 PM

^ for 25k you would probably get an 02 or earlier 911.. they are just so expensive!

9/29/2011 7:50:35 PM

No love for the Toyota Yaris?

9/29/2011 8:08:45 PM

9/29/2011 8:31:50 PM

Quote :

"Also, where on earth did you get a Jetta as a rental?"

Enterprise. While the Lexus was in the shop for a rear fender bender, I got a free rental through the other guy's ins. This was about 11 months ago when this happened. The Jetta was the 5th generation A5 model. The Elantra was the 4th gen. So I appologize, both were previous generations and not what is now available new in the dealerships.



[Edited on September 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2011 10:36:33 PM

miata

9/30/2011 1:32:17 AM

the OP should have clarified what price range and expected operating cost for this type of car....

can't believe we went into the BMW/Porsche discussion already



(and am quite surprised any of these 'looking for a truck' threads ahvent had replies suggesting Beamers or Porsches)

9/30/2011 7:34:27 AM

Quote :

"I cam close to getting a Fiesta hatchback but for a little more I got a Focus SE hatchback with sport package, 2012 model It gets 40mpg on the highway like the Fiesta too."

do you mind telling me what you paid? the only 40mpg focus is one with the dual dry clutch transmission and i thought they were something like $27k (for the hatch models)...which seems like a lot, to me

9/30/2011 8:17:59 AM

Quote :

" Im just not sure what class it fits in"

Quote :

"kizashi is waaaaaayyyy too expensive to what you get."

it is between compact (corolla, civic, elantra, etc) and mid-size (camry, accord, sonata, etc) size-wise. however, from a engine size and price perspective, it competes with the mentioned mid-size sedans. (but you don't get the same size as the mid-size sedans)

9/30/2011 8:45:12 AM

it really is becoming comical how much ahmet talks about 996s and M3s.

9/30/2011 9:04:53 AM

I could see that.

To be fair both the e46 M3 and the 996 qualify as "compact" and both can be had in the price range of the cars mentioned here (saw a 1999 996 with a ton of miles for $16k yesterday). I also felt it was worth pointing out that though BMW did/does do a good job striking a good balance between comfort and performance (as well as longevity) Porsche's done better still.

9/30/2011 8:06:26 PM

I'd just like to say that most little shitboxes deliver pretty disappointing fuel economy.

I mean, I get something like 19/28 in my Z06. I pretty routinely break traction at 40-50 mph (hell, I spun 'em up at 60 mph in 4th gear the other day on wet pavement. The car will run DEEP into the 12s and reach ~175 mph. It's pretty fucking clearly not designed for fuel economy.

...but then a Chevy Aveo is rated at 23/32? Are you kidding me? Nissan's versa is about the same.



On a related note, how in the hell does a Smart ForTwo only get 33/41? I can't imagine buying one over a used Prius, which will kick the shit out of it in fuel economy AND function as a "real" car.

[Edited on September 30, 2011 at 9:19 PM. Reason : fuck, Chevy should've just crammed an LS1 sideways into the Aveo, haha]

9/30/2011 9:18:33 PM

Smart cars really don't make any sense for "economy" purposes, a lot of these small cars don't IMO.

9/30/2011 10:12:58 PM

Quote :

"how in the hell does a Smart ForTwo only get 33/41?"

And it uses premium fuel

9/30/2011 10:25:45 PM

Quote :

"Smart cars really don't make any sense. for "economy" purposes"

10/1/2011 12:13:10 AM

yeah my 370z got 31mpg on the highway.

[Edited on October 1, 2011 at 1:04 AM. Reason : which is about the same as my juke]

10/1/2011 1:04:16 AM

That's why the Elantra is so high on my list. 40 MPG highway, all models, not just the super-economy version like with the Focus/Civic/Cruze. Anything below 30 is unacceptable for a small/economy car and anything below 35 is disappointing. Surprised to see that the damn Aveo only gets 32 though. But that's not uncommon--over in Honda-land, the Fit manages 35 MPG highway and the larger Civic pulls down 36.

(And again, a bit WTF to the Scion tC, which has sort of stepped up its game to 23/31, but as recently as the 2010 model managed a massively disappointing 20/27. My old Lincoln Mark VIII, which was 1000 lbs heaver and had almost twice the horsepower of the tC, managed the same highway mileage. In 1996.)

10/1/2011 1:16:30 PM

shit, that's what my Z06 gets, and it has OVER TRIPLE the horsepower.

[Edited on October 1, 2011 at 1:20 PM. Reason : oops, I was thinking the old xB.]

[Edited on October 1, 2011 at 1:21 PM. Reason : ]

10/1/2011 1:18:25 PM

smart car only purpose is for city dwellers that have to deal with parking. other than that it is utterly useless.

speaking of gas mileage of econo boxes...i always liked that clip where clarkson lapped prius and new m3 around the track and showed that prius was slower and it got lower mpg than m3 around the track.

10/1/2011 1:29:35 PM

haha, yeah, that's one thing that concerns me about buying a Prius as a daily driver. I'm not convinced that it would get anywhere near its advertised mpg with me driving it. Most other cars do, or pretty close, but I don't know if the Prius would.

I probably go WOT a couple dozen times in my Z06 during my daily round trip commute, haha.

(similarly, I'm not convinced yet that I'm going to get any better tire wear out of these higher treadwear rated tires than I did out of my old sticky NT05s, just because I'm forever spinning them)

[Edited on October 1, 2011 at 1:43 PM. Reason : ]

10/1/2011 1:41:58 PM

Quote :

"No love for the Toyota Yaris?"

I rented one in Puerto Rico and was impressed considering what it is. I'm a big guy and I had plenty of room, but the driver's seat was just about touching the back seat when I drove it. If I owned one I'd keep the back seat folded down at all times and just consider it a 2-seater with a large trunk (with the ability to put fold up the back seat and put a passenger in there if it really came down to it). I did not feel cramped at all and it was plenty comfortable on all the long drives I did around the island. If I lived in a dense city and wanted something small knowing it would get beat up I'd seriously consider it.


[Edited on October 1, 2011 at 2:23 PM. Reason : l]

10/1/2011 2:20:35 PM

My wife got a soul Thursday, and even I love the damned thing lol

10/2/2011 9:19:29 PM

What's so appealing about it?

(other than hamsters dancing to LMFAO of course)

10/3/2011 12:02:43 AM

Fits 4 adults way better than the rest.

I mean I'd rather ride a long distance in the back of the soul than a brand new 5 series bimmer.
It was way better optioned than any other new car in it's price range. The 2.0 6 speed is actually pretty quick. It's incredibly nimble. My grandma liked riding in it because it wasn't too high but sat you up straight. And the x factor, the wife thinks it's pretty damned cute.

To be honest, when we test drove the 2011 I didn't expect to like it but I did ( and that was the 5spd 1.6) this 2012 is better at everything.

10/3/2011 3:55:05 AM

Quote :

"smart car only purpose is for city dwellers that have to deal with parking getting yourself killed."

Quote :

"I'm not convinced that it would get anywhere near its advertised mpg with me driving it. Most other cars do, or pretty close, but I don't know if the Prius would."

You might be surprised. Understanding the dynamics of fuel consumption does wonders. I've only had one real experience with a Prius, on a trip to DC with a friend. She has odd driving habits (modulating speed on the highway, etc.), so I bet her I could get better mileage while driving than she could.

Obviously I didn't drive it like I'd drive my WRX, but I didn't putt around, either. I got right up against the advertised mileage both in and out of town, and a good 5-7 MPG higher than my friend. You don't have to drive like a granny for the Prius to respond properly, you just have to be conscious.

10/3/2011 4:02:49 AM

Quote :

""smart car only purpose is for city dwellers that have to deal with parking getting yourself killed.""

huh? are you joking? we can say a lot of things about smart car, but safety is definitely its plus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz-s1sIoLhU

A-pillar is barely dented at twice the speed what normal crash safety tests are done. (70 vs 35mph frontal crash). it's lite weight has some limitations, but overall it's cockpit is very safe. take a look at ratings for average trucks. they are horrible.

10/3/2011 4:22:55 AM

Just going off what I've heard from people who have dealt with Smart-related injuries.

10/3/2011 4:31:03 AM

what happens when they actually restrain the smart....

say... you get hit into a 3rd car...

i bet you it squashes like a bug.


[Edited on October 3, 2011 at 8:40 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2011 8:38:48 AM

a car can be designed specifically with the limited safety tests in mind.

i dont care what these fucking crash tests say-

you cant deny the simple physics that would be imparted on that golf cart.




yes its going to be squashed.

yes its going to be bounced around like a pinball.

yes every car on the road is larger than it and in an accident that transferred energy will punt it into god knows what.

and finally,

yes youre going to be inside it- scrambled like an egg.

[Edited on October 3, 2011 at 10:13 AM. Reason : ...]

10/3/2011 10:10:35 AM