Predict today's death toll, comrades.

12/9/2011 10:20:04 PM

Nil.

12/9/2011 11:43:33 PM

Zero seems to be correct. 40,000 people in Moscow alone protesting the legitimacy of the government, and not a single police brutality complaint. It would appear that Russian police are more disciplined than their American counterparts.

12/10/2011 10:12:57 AM

It's pretty much like that anywhere else in the world (outside of 3rd world country dictatorships where the police and the military are one in the same). Usually in countries where you see violence, it's the protesters who begin the violence and the people who go in to contain it are the military, not the police.

It's pretty damn sad when I'm more scared of the police in the US than I am when I was in Germany/Austria or that HORRIBLE COMMIE COUNTRY ( ) of China.

12/10/2011 10:40:35 AM

I wonder if Obama is going to call for Putin and Medvedev to step down.

12/10/2011 1:21:12 PM

do you really wonder that.

12/10/2011 4:54:42 PM

Quote :

" 40,000 people in Moscow alone protesting the legitimacy of the government, and not a single police brutality complaint. It would appear that Russian police are more disciplined than their American counterparts."

It would appear that the Russians know how to protest without breaking the law or resisting arrest.

12/10/2011 5:28:03 PM

Or maybe they just know they might end up in a ditch somewhere if they do.

Hey, I know!! WE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE THEM!!!

12/10/2011 6:46:23 PM

China has those reeducation places or whatever you call it (where your beasically tortured all the time)...whenever anything happens in China the leaders of the protest disappear, to these places, for life (or they are released when they are near death)....still some from the T. Square protests are at these sort of places. Russia probably has something like that too.

[Edited on December 10, 2011 at 8:18 PM. Reason : w]

12/10/2011 8:17:21 PM

Yeah, this is a pretty fucking stupid statement:

Quote :

"I t's pretty damn sad when I'm more scared of the police in the US than I am when I was in Germany/Austria or that HORRIBLE COMMIE COUNTRY (  ) of China. "

China does not have free speech or freedom of the press. Speaking out against the government will get you thrown in prison or placed under house arrest.

12/10/2011 8:42:39 PM

^^It's called prison, and we have them too.

Quote :

"China does not have free speech or freedom of the press. Speaking out against the government will get you thrown in prison or placed under house arrest."

What the fuck does this have to do with police behavior? God damn this is a pretty fucking stupid thing to say, as I'm not talking about a country's laws. I'm talking about the accountability and power police have in different countries.

The police in the US are not held accountable for anything. They can speed anytime they want. Arrest whoever they want (call a police officer a faggot cunt face and see what happens to you, even though you broke no law). If they shoot someone without cause they get a slap on the wrist (compared to us plain folk). They can issue orders that have no legal standing and if you don't obey, you get beaten, pepper sprayed and attacked.

In China, officers are held far more accountable for their actions. If they shoot and kill someone without cause, they get executed. Plain and fucking simple. They don't walk around like their dick is huge and brandish their gun for fun. I saw some people get arrested in China. They don't go for their gun as their first response or beaten them. I would classify the officers in China as pussies. They are more scared of the people than the people are scared of them. Ever see the reaction of people nearby someone getting arrested in the US? They get away, not crowd around. In China, everyone rushes to see what is going on. Do the police try to push everyone away? Nope. They ignore them, arrest the guy and go away. In the US, they will just arrest everyone who approaches and charge them with interfering in a police investigation.

In Germany, even kids don't take the police seriously. You can see them yelling at kids telling them to stop doing something, and the kids laugh at the officer.

Police in the US have been given far too much power. They're some of the worse in the world.

Now, laws in other countries in relationship to the US. That is a totally different subject, and I'm sorry if your dumbass can't distinguish between laws and police behavior.

[Edited on December 10, 2011 at 9:04 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2011 8:43:44 PM

We don't throw people in prison for "subversive speech"and other bogus laws created lock up dissenters.

12/10/2011 8:52:05 PM

^ Read the edit you fucking simpleton.

You're discussing a country's laws. It's totally irrelevant to what I said. I'm talking about police behavior and accountability. The two are separate topics. Stop trying to build strawmen, faggot.

12/10/2011 9:06:14 PM

Hey, instead of telling us how awesome German Polizei are compared to our police because you spent all of a week or two there on some vacation, how about you do some research instead? 68er-Bewegung, Rote Armee Fraktion, Notstandgesetze, usw. Amnesty International doesn't exactly have nice things to say about the Bundespolizei, either. But hey, I'm sure Benno Ohnesorg will be glad to know that you think the Polizei are nice guys.

12/10/2011 10:26:30 PM

Italian Cops (Carabinieri) are by far the most corrupt police branch I have ever seen. They do not react well to protesters and they will frequently get into altercations with the local Gypsies because they know no one will believe the gypsies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1460505.stm

For just one example.

Seriously, a lot of Americans have this super idealized thoughts of what Europe or the rest of the world is like or how bad we have it compared to the rest of the world.

For those too lazy to read the article, in 2 days of riots at a G8 summit, 230 people were injured and one killed by the police.



[Edited on December 10, 2011 at 10:42 PM. Reason : a]

12/10/2011 10:30:02 PM

^^ You could have saved us all a lot of time by just typing "I am a fucking idiot and here is why..."

Quote :

"how about you do some research instead?"

Gladly.

Quote :

"68er-Bewegung"

From Wikipedia:

Quote :

"The German student movement (also called 68er-Bewegung, movement of 1968, or soixante-huitaires) was a protest movement that took place during the late 1960s in West Germany. It was largely a reaction against the perceived authoritarianism and hypocrisy of the German government and other Western governments, and the poor living conditions of students. A wave of protests—some violent—swept West Germany, fueled by violent over-reaction by the police and encouraged by contemporary protest movements across the world. Following more than a century of conservatism among German students, the German student movement also marked a significant major shift to the left and radicalisation of student politics. On June 2, 1967 the conflict would finally escalate. Students had organized demonstrations against the official visit by the Shah of Iran. In their opinion, the German government was demonstrating a positive attitude towards a dictatorial government that was suppressing and torturing its own people. During the first demonstration in front of the Opera House, which the Shah was visiting, the police of Berlin and the Iranian service attacked the protestors. In the turmoil, the unarmed student Benno Ohnesorg was shot in the head from behind by Polizeiobermeister (Police Sergeant) Karl-Heinz Kurras and killed. The following days saw many demonstrations throughout the whole republic against police brutality. The students in Berlin, however, were anxious and in a desperate situation. The police were preventing them from gathering in public, the universities had submitted their authority to the government and the press wrote that the students were the brutal and aggressive component of the demonstrations and that they had provoked the death of Benno Ohnesorg. Even though there were some students groups supporting the idea of a violent revolution the protesting students were mostly peaceful."

So you're citing a 43+ year old movement that is eerily similar to other protests at universities in the 1960s and 70s that were also put down violently? Really dude? Have anything a bit more relevant to today? Why not just cite the Nazi's killing Jews and get it over with...

Quote :

"Rote Armee Fraktion"

You mean RAF? A left wing terrorist group? The fuck does that have to do with police overstepping their boundaries?

Quote :

"Notstandgesetze"

This was a fucking law that was passed. It led to protests, yes. But this is not at all related to police overstepping the boundaries of law. It's a separate discussion of whether this law was right or not.

Quote :

"Bundespolizei"

Their wrong doings can't even hold a match up to our own police's wrong doings. It's laughable that you would point to them and say "yeah, they're not any better." You do realize I haven't said any other country is perfect, right?

Quote :

"Benno Ohnesorg"

Who died in 1967. I'm sure Anne Frank thinks real nicely about the German police force...

^ Italy doesn't represent all of Europe. Personally, I think Italy is a hell hole in general.

12/10/2011 11:01:49 PM

Oh it really is, my friends and I liken it to the Mexico of Europe. However, my point still stands, American cops aren't that bad, also we have loads of freedom. We can protest something we don't like, we can write about essentially anything we want (I'm saying essentially, because we can't publish death threats and the like) if there is police brutality, we can bitch about it, call for the cops resignation, sue the cop, etc

I'm not nervous when I see a cop in this country.

12/11/2011 1:50:45 AM

Quote :

"In China, officers are held far more accountable for their actions. If they shoot and kill someone without cause, they get executed. Plain and fucking simple. They don't walk around like their dick is huge and brandish their gun for fun. I saw some people get arrested in China. They don't go for their gun as their first response or beaten them. I would classify the officers in China as pussies. They are more scared of the people than the people are scared of them. "

You are a fucking moron.

Chinese police officers kill protesters on a regular basis. When is the last time you heard of US police beating protesters to death?

Quote :

" 20 Uighurs were killed -- 14 beaten to death and 6 shot dead -- and 70 arrested, when police opened fire on protesters"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/20/us-china-xinjiang-idUSTRE76J0GB20110720

If you follow the link, you will find an official account from State-controlled media that the Uighers instigated the violence, which is clearly bullshit. The police may fear mobs of people, but they are protected by the state media, since negative stories about the police would reflect poorly on the government. Here in America, we are inundated with youtube videos of police brutality and stories of corruption. Be thankful that the press is allowed to publish these, because it keeps the police in check. You're fooling yourself if you don't believe that corruption and brutality is rampant in the Chinese police.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 2:20 AM. Reason : 2]

12/11/2011 2:08:19 AM

^but yeh, fuckin horrible united states. complain all day about a grossly skewed and 'edited out segment' of a UC pepper spray incident (in reality they warned the students not to surround them for 45 mins)..... yet you live here peacefully better than any possible location in the universe

so many fucking idiots in this country that need to just gtfo and enjoy their paradise in tehran.

12/11/2011 2:36:12 AM

They need a holiday in cambodia

12/11/2011 10:14:54 AM

Ah, winter; the greatest ally of any russian leader.

America's next summer is going to be hot though.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 11:04 AM. Reason : .]

12/11/2011 11:03:23 AM

Oh, ok, so we a have a statute of limitations on police brutality. As long as we're clear on that. At least, that's what I got when I skimmed through that abortion of a quote repost. I'm quite capable of Googling the events and groups I listed, I don't need you to do it for me.

Now, having actually lived in Germany and Austria, I can tell you that half the shit you get away with when dealing with a police officer here wouldn't be tolerated there. Try arguing with the Pistol/MP-5 buddy team about how 'you have rights' and 'you can't do this to me' and see how long it takes before you're eating curb.

Look, merbig, the point I'm making is not that the US of A is all sunshine and unicorn giggles. I agree with many people that accountability over law enforcement needs a lot of work. But when you sit there and you sincerely state that you feel police in China or Germany are more well-behaved that ours, and I can look back at history at things like the German Student Movement and Tienanmen Square, you sound like an idiot. Please, honestly tell me that as a Chinese citizen, if you and a bunch of your friends got together and started protesting, shit wouldn't go down. I got it - you think things are broken here in the US. I hear your words, and they speak to me. Drive on. Just stop telling me (incorrectly) about how Country X is better than us in Area Y, because Country X has got it's own fucking skeletons to worry about.

12/11/2011 11:54:47 AM

Quote :

" You are a fucking moron."

Says the fucking moron who didn't bother to read his own shit.

Quote :

"Chinese police officers kill protesters on a regular basis. When is the last time you heard of US police beating protesters to death? [quote] 20 Uighurs were killed -- 14 beaten to death and 6 shot dead -- and 70 arrested, when police opened fire on protesters"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/20/us-china-xinjiang-idUSTRE76J0GB20110720

If you follow the link, you will find an official account from State-controlled media that the Uighers instigated the violence, which is clearly bullshit. The police may fear mobs of people, but they are protected by the state media, since negative stories about the police would reflect poorly on the government. Here in America, we are inundated with youtube videos of police brutality and stories of corruption. Be thankful that the press is allowed to publish these, because it keeps the police in check. You're fooling yourself if you don't believe that corruption and brutality is rampant in the Chinese police.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 2:20 AM. Reason : 2][/quote]

Dude, did you even read the fucking headline?

Quote :

"China on Wednesday raised the death toll to 18 from a clash at a police station in the restive far western region of Xinjiang, saying that 14 "rioters" died along with two policemen and two hostages in the worst violence there in a year."

Have you even done any research on the tensions in that region before posting your stupid shit and saying "HERE! CHINA IS WORSE THAN US!!!!" No, you didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Uyghur_Autonomous_Region#1949-present

Quote :

"Recent incidents include the 2007 Xinjiang raid,[46] a thwarted 2008 suicide bombing attempt on a China Southern Airlines flight,[47] and the 2008 Xinjiang attack which resulted in the deaths of sixteen police officers four days before the Beijing Olympics.[48][49] Further incidents include the July 2009 Ürümqi riots, the September 2009 Xinjiang unrest, and the 2010 Aksu bombing that led to the trials of 376 people.[50]"

Are you seriously going to stick up for these "protesters," who have been shown to use violence equivalent to that seen in other middle eastern countries?

And more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_raid

Quote :

"The January 2007 Xinjiang raid was carried out on January 5, 2007 by the Chinese police against a suspected East Turkestan Islamic Movement training camp in Akto County in the Pamir plateau near the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.[1] A spokesperson for the Xinjiang Public Security Department said that 18 terror suspects were killed and 17 captured. The raid also resulted in the death of one Chinese paramilitary officer Huang Qiang, age 21, and the injury of another officer. Authorities confiscated hand grenades, guns, and makeshift explosives from the site.[1][2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Xinjiang_attack

Quote :

"The 2008 Kashgar attack (Chinese: 2008???????) was a terrorist attack perpetrated by two men on the morning of August 4, 2008, who attacked a group of police officers while they were jogging near the western city of Kashgar, in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China, resulting in the death of sixteen officers."

If it was just a non-violent protest, then do you care to explain to me how police officers and military personnel are being killed by these people?

I guess if these people are in China we call them "protesters," but in the US and elsewhere we call these people terrorists.

Quote :

"Be thankful that the press is allowed to publish these, because it keeps the police in check."

Buahahahahahahaha. It's not working faggot.

That's why police have been allowed to beat pregnant women even when they're fleeing. We might be able to document police brutality, but they end up with nothing more than a slap on the wrist and a paid vacation.

Quote :

"Chinese police officers kill protesters on a regular basis. When is the last time you heard of US police beating protesters to death?"

Why does it have to be protesters?

Here are a list of well-known cases of police brutality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_cases_(United_States)

Here is one that goes to show my point regarding the unaccountability of our police force:

Quote :

"Joseph Erin Hamley, a mentally disabled man, was shot and killed by state trooper Larry Norman[b] while laying supine on the ground. Norman mistook Hamley for a fugitive. Norman later pleaded guilty to negligent homicide and [b]was sentenced to 90 days in jail. The Hamley estate accepted a $1 million legal settlement from the state.[3] Although the Arkansas State Police expressed regret for the shooting of Hamley, they deny any wrongdoing as part of the settlement."

Since 9/11 it has only gotten worse as we've just given up our rights in the name of "protection" against terrorists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_(United_States)#Post_9.2F11

Quote :

"Numerous human rights observers have raised concerns about increased police brutality in the U.S. in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center. An extensive report prepared for the United Nations Human Rights Committee tabled in 2006 states that in the United States, the "War on Terror" has "created a generalized climate of impunity for law enforcement officers, and contributed to the erosion of what few accountability mechanisms exist for civilian control over law enforcement agencies. As a result, police brutality and abuse persist unabated and undeterred across the country."[19]"

Quote :

" A 1998 Human Rights Watch report stated that in all 14 precincts it examined, the process of filing a complaint was "unnecessarily difficult and often intimidating.""

In many of the cases of police brutality in the US, the offending police officer would have been executed in China. Instead we give them 90 days of jail?

At least China is getting better. We're getting worse.

12/11/2011 12:04:36 PM

Quote :

"I guess if these people are in China we call them "protesters," but in the US and elsewhere we call these people terrorists. "

no, no. China has learned that labeling a people "terrorist" allows them full ability to violently repress them, without international condemnation. Same here in the US, of course.

Quote :

"Are you seriously going to stick up for these "protesters," who have been shown to use violence equivalent to that seen in other middle eastern countries?"

Sounds like you are advocating, the same argument some here in the US are using to detain citizens without trial indefinitely.

12/11/2011 12:42:11 PM

I'm doing this separately to keep one post from becoming anymore of a cluster fuck than it already is.

Quote :

"Oh, ok, so we a have a statute of limitations on police brutality. As long as we're clear on that. At least, that's what I got when I skimmed through that abortion of a quote repost. I'm quite capable of Googling the events and groups I listed, I don't need you to do it for me. "

It's not just that. It's that there have been many changes over 40+ years in both Germany, the US, China, ect.

I'm not going to reach back to:



Because it was 41 years ago.

Quote :

"Now, having actually lived in Germany and Austria, I can tell you that half the shit you get away with when dealing with a police officer here wouldn't be tolerated there. Try arguing with the Pistol/MP-5 buddy team about how 'you have rights' and 'you can't do this to me' and see how long it takes before you're eating curb."

You mean something like this?



A diabetic man was going into shock while driving. The officers thought he was drunk. They busted his window after 20 seconds of stopping him they busted out his window, tased him, beat him (to the point where he may need part of his shoulder rebuilt). Then, they have the audacity of charging him with resisting arrest and a slew of other bullshit, that was later dropped.

How about this where an officer threatened to kill a man for having a concealed weapon (legally), even though the man tried several times to tell him he had a concealed weapon and to show him his license?



How about this one where a man was shot for stopping because the officer pulled him over...???



Seriously dude. Being thrown to the curb is peanuts compared to what our officers will do to you if you get a bit "uppity." They will throw you to the curb, kick you, tase you, then charge you for resisting arrest.

Quote :

" But when you sit there and you sincerely state that you feel police in China or Germany are more well-behaved that ours, and I can look back at history at things like the German Student Movement and Tienanmen Square, you sound like an idiot."

And that's the problem. You're looking back at history and not the present day. Just because things used to be like that, doesn't mean they still are.

But I am glad that you brought up the Tienanmen Square incident. You do realize that the students had grown violent and were assualting military personnel and police officers? You realize before the violence escalated that the students were protesting for about a month without any violence. Yes, the police were there, but they weren't assaulting anyone. In fact, many of the students helped the police apprehend people who were breaking the law. It wasn't until the students grew violent and restless (such as burning cars with people inside of them, attacking the police) did the violence grow. Was the police response over the top a bit? Here is a quote from the wikipedia article:

Quote :

"As word spread that hundreds of thousands of troops were approaching from all four corners of the city, residents of Beijing flooded the streets to block them, as they had done two weeks earlier. People set up barricades at every major intersection. At about 10:30 pm, near the Muxidi apartment buildings (home to high-level Party officials and their families), protesters threw rocks and Molotov cocktails at police and army vehicles. Many vehicles were set on fire in the streets all around Tiananmen, some with their occupants still inside them. There were reports of soldiers being burned alive in their armoured personnel carriers while others were beaten to death. Soldiers responded by opening fire on protesters with live ammunition, causing casualties among demonstrators. Soldiers also raked apartment buildings in the area with gunfire, and some people inside their apartments or watching the scene from their balconies were shot.[61][83]"

The students had clearly grown violent. What the soldiers did wrong was shooting to buildings with innocent people in them.

But the protests weren't just in Beijing, but they also took place in Shanghai and other parts of China. Most people don't know that because nobody was killed in them, as they protested for a few days or so and then they left peacefully.

Tienanmen square was awful. But most Americans only know of the American version of events (Police killed protesters who wanted freedom. BOOO China!!!), but they don't know that the protesters grew violent, were killing police/soldiers/innocent people out of rage before the soldiers started killing protesters.

Quote :

"Please, honestly tell me that as a Chinese citizen, if you and a bunch of your friends got together and started protesting, shit wouldn't go down."

Not unless it got violent. If it stayed peaceful (see protests in Shanghai following the June 4th incident) and within the law, then no "shit would not go down." The problem is that many protests end up violent when the police have no choice but to use force to stop the violence. This happens everywhere. If people are burning cars, attacking people, then there is no other option but to use force.

Also, keep in mind that I am not talking about the laws in China. I think the freedoms allowed by the people is much worse than here. But China's handling of its police force is much better than it is here.

[Edited on December 11, 2011 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

12/11/2011 12:53:39 PM

ITT we learn that merbig is a fucking idiot

12/12/2011 11:58:21 AM

its been known methinks-

12/12/2011 12:04:26 PM

ITT we larn that blind patriotism runs deep.

12/12/2011 12:30:40 PM

I think the Russian government treated this protest rather nicely in hopes that once people have a chance to bleed their frustrations and the government promises to "look into it" then folks will simply go away and forget. If protests continue, I imagine that the Russian government will start taking a much more brutal approach.

As for all the discussions on police, I would point out that you can't make a perfect comparison between the United States and other nations. Many countries have separate paramilitary agencies (gendarmerie I believe is the term) that do the "dirty work" that is primarily being discussed. China is a good example. You have the rank and file Chinese People's Police (blue uniforms) are "soft" because they deal only with traditional policing. However, the Chinese also have the People's Armed Police (green uniforms) that use violence for riot control, internal political suppression and border security. You see a similar model used in many other countries. This of course contrasts with the American model where local police forces have to do both policing and riot control. That's in part why you have the perception that other nations' police forces are more "friendly" because they don't have to deal with the nastier side of public security. Italy, France and South Korea are other nations I can think of off hand that have similar models.

I would also add that US police are more heavily armed because of the proliferation of firearms. I'll save the second amendment discussions for a different thread, but that simple fact alone means that police have to be better armed to keep up with the citizenry and also be more cautious in dealing with situations. When you don't have to worry about waging combat with criminals who could be more heavily armed than you, you can be a lot more relaxed. I think the recent tragedy at VTech perfectly illustrates this.

Also, a third point is that our policing is highly decentralized, so the level of training and discipline varies widely from region to region, more so than you would see in smaller nations that have single, national police forces. While not directly responsible for violence in our policing, it does mean that best practices and lessons aren't as easily disseminated.

To top it off, a reminder that the recent police handling of Occupy was gentle versus a lot of other nations. Yes, it can be worse.





http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1117&bih=717&q=South+Korean+riot+police

http://www.who-sucks.com/people/the-exciting-world-of-south-korean-protests

I'll even throw in a link of South Korean Riot Police battling military veterans armed with homemade flamethrowers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qhIZ8Px9Sc

[Edited on December 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM. Reason : More pictures!]

12/12/2011 4:42:23 PM

It's interesting that you posted that last link. America, too, has a long and proud history of not paying its veterans and then beating the living shit out of them when they protest.

The Continental Army was disbanded and sent home without pay in 1781. Two years later war veterans marched in Philly, and congress fled the city and used the current U.S. Army to crush the protesters.

Interestingly, when congress(many of them southerners angered by the federal occupation of the south) passed the Posse Comitatus Act in 1878(which protected American citizens from the use of military force), they specifically exempted Washington DC so the politicians could use the military to save their own asses in the future. The subsequent lack of a federal military presence in the south let the local cops beat the negroes back into submission again, but hey, them's the breaks.

The Washington, DC exemption came in handy in 1932 when starving World War I vets marched on washington to demand their pay. The Army was again ordered to heroically pushbroom them out of town and mop their blood up, killing many in the process.

I mention the Posse Comitatus Act because, while there have been some bullshit loopholes allowing the Coast Guard and National Guard to occasionally blow U.S. citizens' hippy brains out, the military has largely stayed out of domestic affairs. This is all set to change NOW; if the National Defense Authorization Act passes, it will directly override the Posse Comitatus Act and allow military intervention on U.S. soil at any time, conveniently providing exactly the sort of secondary "thug" police force you describe in so many other countries.

12/12/2011 5:13:51 PM

Quote :

"I think the Russian government treated this protest rather nicely in hopes that once people have a chance to bleed their frustrations and the government promises to "look into it" then folks will simply go away and forget. If protests continue, I imagine that the Russian government will start taking a much more brutal approach."

I think that their unusually soft approach also has to do with the presidential election in the next few months. A brutal crack down from the start would only embolden the opposition against an already weakened United Russia. I would be shocked if we see a repeat of the Orange Revolution this time around, but it would be less surprising after the presidential election.

12/13/2011 9:15:03 AM

^ Good point. Regardless, it'll be interesting to see how things play out.

^^ Fair enough, but I think that the Federal government has gotten better about how it handles returning veterans. There's still plenty of room for improvement (the VA Hospital system being one of the immediate examples I can think of), but there have been a lot of other things like the GI Bill from the end of WWII that improved the situation significantly.

Agree that the National Defense Authorization Act is dangerous, but I think that the threat of a direct military intervention is not one of them (at least from what I saw in the most recent coverage). I don't think the US is anywhere near establishing a gendarmerie only because the constitutional challenges and the resistance of states rights type wouldn't allow for it; I think governors would prefer to march over people with their own National Guard units than be beholden to the Federal government.

[Edited on December 13, 2011 at 9:39 AM. Reason : Oh yeah... thread topic]

12/13/2011 9:37:40 AM

Yes, and I see no reason why the majority of military would want anything to do with domestic police actions, but I'm sure there's a minority that would jump at the chance, if for no other reason than to be "deployed" close to home.

As for the independence of states to call in the National Guard...Governors can't take a shit these days without asking the Federal government for money to purchase the pot to sit on. Without federal money, schoolchildren would go unfed and the state government would grind to a halt. And that's assuming that the state's national guard unit isn't deployed abroad anyway.

12/13/2011 10:04:37 AM

^^ I'm very interested to see how things play out. Hopefully I will be over there for the presidential election to see things first hand. Being present for the Orange Revolution in Ukraine and then the failed revolution in Belarus, this could go either way at this point and will be fascinating to watch.

12/13/2011 11:55:15 AM

http://antonnikolenko.blogspot.com/2011/12/russian-legislative-elections-2011.html

12/13/2011 12:46:00 PM

^^ Yeah, please let us know what you see if you do get to go over there. I'd be very curious to hear your perspective on it. Especially given how Russians tend to be so "apolitical", any kind of voter revolt would be interesting to see.

12/13/2011 1:21:33 PM

The end is near.

12/27/2011 10:02:30 PM

The dictator is expected to be reinstated on Sunday. Expect violence in the streets.

[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 4:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2012 4:41:46 PM

Interesting thing though is that President Putin is looking a lot more vulnerable now. Before, he had a near invincible aura. Now he's got people that are openly criticizing him, even at his own rallies. Not sure what happens when he starts tightening the screws again, but the chink in his armor is going to leave room for protest actions.

3/2/2012 5:23:22 PM

protesting without violence occurring = stalemate = nothing changes.

[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 11:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/2/2012 11:42:11 PM

Massive arrests. Two obviously corrupt elections in 3 months. The Arab spring is spreading.

3/6/2012 8:18:52 PM

lol this thread

Putin had 0 competition. He legit won. He didn't even need the corruption. The next best opponent was a fucking retard

3/6/2012 8:44:05 PM

Zhirinovsky has a case of the cray cray, to be sure.

Then again, no sane man would run for president against a dictator.

3/6/2012 9:55:13 PM

just talk to anybody over there. this election for them was like bill clinton running against donald trump, al franken, and sideshow bob.

3/7/2012 10:19:58 AM

That's because George Bush I, Bob Dole, and Ross Perot already got killed or were too scared to run.

3/7/2012 11:58:36 AM

Russia was more Democratic during the latter Soviet days, it's not a surprise nostalgia for "the old days" is on the up there.

3/7/2012 12:10:19 PM

^^ guess ur mad this country has been run by republicans for the last 50 years by and large

lol

what a horrible train-wreck it has been too. wouldn't you agree? probably the worst country ever during the last 4 decades

3/8/2012 10:02:41 PM

By "More Democratic" I wasn't referring to the party in power, but the integrity of their elections. You're dumb as shit dude.

3/9/2012 9:21:37 AM

LOL look at the fucking "^^". HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


see it's funny because you are that 'smart' guy at the party pointing out everyone's flaws...
yet for some reason you are the only one standing around alone like a jackass

lol

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 2:27 PM. Reason : hahahaha i'd love to meet you in reality and watch your psycho babble nonstop]

3/9/2012 2:25:58 PM