I was reading an article on CNN about the "fake" marijuana that was at one point legally used in the US up until last year called Spice or K2. Having never heard of this stuff, I looked it up on wikipedia. During my research I came across the following tidbit....

Quote :

"November 24, 2010, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency announced it would use emergency powers to ban many synthetic cannabinoids within a month "

Am I the only one that thinks it is problematic that the Drug Gestapo Enforcement Agency, can use special Emergency powers to completely bypass the legislative system?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis

12/14/2011 1:04:54 PM

They're like a dog chasing it's tail.

12/14/2011 1:11:16 PM

Administration, not Agency

12/14/2011 1:13:22 PM

People seem to forget that these agencies were voted into existence by congress and bestowed with mandates and powers. It's not "bypassing the legislative system" to let agencies created by the legislative system perform duties that would otherwise bog down the legislative system. That's why they created the fucking agency to begin with, so they don't have to vote on every little thing it might do.

[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 1:25:07 PM

There's also synthetic cocaine:

https://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=bath+salt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designer_drug

They need to outlaw chemistry so these dangerous substances can't get in the hands of our children.

12/14/2011 1:34:18 PM

^^and this needs to be reversed.

Agencies & administrations should have severely limited rule making powers. BAFTE, ABC, ALE, DEA, etc. should be about law enforcement, not law (rule/regulation) making. It is these rouge groups that pander to political wills and agendas with no recourse. They are not elected. Their policies are not voted upon. They should be disbanded and reformed as enforcement/oversight bodies and not rule making bodies. Tyrants, all of them.

12/14/2011 2:03:10 PM

^ I agree but you do know that ALE and ABC are state run agencies. On that note I do not think the ABC enforces any laws, they just sell the booze.

12/14/2011 2:49:15 PM

Quote :

"Agencies & administrations should have severely limited rule making powers. BAFTE, ABC, ALE, DEA, etc. should be about law enforcement, not law (rule/regulation) making. "

Says who? Congress itself gave them those powers to regulate particular realms, they can always take it away if the agency acts egregiously or steps outside of its mandated realm.

Quote :

"It is these rouge groups that pander to political wills and agendas with no recourse. "

Actually, because they aren't directly elected, they don't have to do any pandering at all, UNLIKE congress, and I already pointed out above that there is the possibility of recourse if they're sufficiently egregious.

Quote :

"They are not elected. Their policies are not voted upon. They should be disbanded and reformed as enforcement/oversight bodies and not rule making bodies. Tyrants, all of them."

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Good luck writing an amendment to the Constitution saying "Congress may never vote to delegate any of its powers to an agency and must themselves vote on every single rule in every single rulebook pertaining to every aspect of running a nation."



[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 2:57 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 2:56:55 PM

Quote :

"I agree but you do know that ALE and ABC are state run agencies. On that note I do not think the ABC enforces any laws, they just sell the booze."

I know this. It doesn't matter what level. These agencies are full of shit. ABC is a shit commission that deserves to be disbanded.

Quote :

"Says who? Congress itself gave them those powers, they can always take it away if the agency acts egregiously. "

Says the people who cherish freedom and freedom from a tyrannical and unjust government (and its agencies).

Quote :

"Actually, because they aren't directly elected, they don't have to do any pandering at all, UNLIKE congress, and I already pointed out above that there is the possibility of recourse if they're sufficiently egregious."

BAFTE has done nothing but pander to the Obama admin's anti-firearm views. Yes, their powers/acts/rules can be rescinded by congress, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Agency powers need to be reigned in.

Quote :

"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Good luck writing an amendment to the Constitution saying "Congress may never vote to delegate any of its powers to an agency and most themselves vote on every single rule in every single rulebook pertaining to every aspect of running a nation.""

Thanks. If big brother has rules for me to live by, I'd rather them come from elected officials that can be held accountable by the people.

[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 3:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 3:00:33 PM

Quote :

"I know this. It doesn't matter what level. These agencies are full of shit. ABC is a shit commission that deserves to be disbanded."

Thanks for this insightful and substantial post, "I say this thing is bad and thus it should go away."

Quote :

"Says the people who cherish freedom and freedom from a tyrannical and unjust government (and its agencies)."

So now congress is an unjust, tyrannical government? What the fuck do you want then, fascism? Just because a democratic government didn't play out the way you wanted doesn't make you a freedom fighter, it makes you a bitter opposition crybaby with delusions of grandiosity.

Quote :

" BAFTE has done nothing but pander to the Obama admin's anti-firearm views. Yes, their powers/acts/rules can be rescinded by congress, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Agency powers need to be reigned in."

How do you propose they be reigned? Should Congress pass a law that prohibits themselves from delegating their own powers? Or should a Fuhrer rise up and do this, since your elected officials obviously aren't interested in doing so?

Quote :

"Thanks. If big brother has rules for me to live by, I'd rather them come from elected officials that can be held accountable by the people."

Oh, like Congress? You know, the ones who created these agencies and delegated power to them, and can also take them away? The body that's accountable to the people?


[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 3:07:59 PM

Quote :

"Thanks for this insightful and substantial post, "I say this thing is bad and thus it should go away.""

Well, we all have opinions... and I'm not the only one who thinks ALE and ABC are useless. In fact, that seems to be a pretty popular stance.

Quote :

"So now congress is an unjust, tyrannical government? What the fuck do you want then, fascism? Just because a democratic government didn't play out the way you wanted doesn't make you a freedom fighter, it makes you a bitter opposition crybaby with delusions of grandiosity."

And the trolling breaks out! In some ways/policies/rules yes, congress is unjust and we should all strive to make it change. Fascism? No, more like the opposite. Shed the government of their abusive power.

Quote :

"How do you propose they be reigned? Should Congress pass a law that prohibits themselves from delegating their own powers? Or should a Fuhrer rise up and do this, since your elected officials obviously aren't interested in doing so?"

Well their rule making abilities and scope surely need reworking.

Quote :

"Oh, like Congress? You know, the ones who created these agencies and delegated power to them, and can also take them away? The body that's accountable to the people?"

Sure. Congress makes mistakes. I want to correct those mistakes. And congress is much more accountable to the people than agencies.

12/14/2011 3:16:09 PM

Quote :

"Well, we all have opinions... and I'm not the only one who thinks ALE and ABC are useless. In fact, that seems to be a pretty popular stance."

Well apparently you're in the minority because our elected officials on the whole seem to think otherwise.

Quote :

"And the trolling breaks out! In some ways/policies/rules yes, congress is unjust and we should all strive to make it change. Fascism? No, more like the opposite. Shed the government of their abusive power. "

How do you do that, except through Congress itself?

Quote :

"Well their rule making abilities and scope surely need reworking."

Aaaand who do you want to rework them? Congress?

Quote :

"Sure. Congress makes mistakes. I want to correct those mistakes. "

How do you correct those mistakes? Perhaps through some kind of democratic body of elected officials? Maybe they could meet regularly to vote on these issues, perhaps in a large building in Washington DC with an iconographic dome on top.

Quote :

"And congress is much more accountable to the people than agencies."

Congress can overrule the agencies at any time, and the agencies mandates are derived from congress itself. This is just as stupid as whining about the Secretary of State conducting diplomacy on behalf of the President, or getting angry that your boss's secretary scheduled your meeting for a bad time, "She's not even my boss, so she has no right to schedule my meetings!"

If Congress had to handle every little thing themselves, they'd be working 30 hour days 24/7. The ability to delegate authorities and duties to agencies is vital to any democratic government that's responsible for anything more complex than a bake sale.

[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 3:31:03 PM

Quote :

"Well apparently you're in the minority because our elected officials on the whole seem to think otherwise."

But the people do not. And with time, more support, and further efforts, I'm hopeful our elected officials will shut down the ABC and reign in the ALE. There's already been calls within the NC gov't to shut down ABC. These things take time.

Quote :

"How do you do that, except through Congress itself? "

Is that not what I've been saying?

Quote :

"Aaaand who do you want to rework them? Congress?"

Is that not what I've been saying?

Quote :

"How do you correct those mistakes? Perhaps through some kind of democratic body of elected officials? Maybe they could meet regularly to vote on these issues, perhaps in a large building in Washington DC with an iconographic dome on top."

Congress and the people.

Quote :

"Congress can overrule the agencies at any time, and the agencies mandates are derived from congress itself. This is just as stupid as whining about the Secretary of State conducting diplomacy on behalf of the President, or getting angry that your boss's secretary scheduled your meeting for a bad time, "She's not even my boss, so she has no right to schedule my meetings!" If Congress had to handle every little thing themselves, they'd be working 30 hour days 24/7. The ability to delegate authorities and duties to agencies is vital to any democratic government that's responsible for anything more complex than a bake sale."

Yes, but I am saying the powers of agencies still need to be reigned in. And congress doesn't have to handle every little thing themselves, but they haven't done a good job of providing scope limits to agencies and the people need to recognize this and demand change.

[Edited on December 14, 2011 at 3:40 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2011 3:39:32 PM

How? How could you even word that sort of legislation?

12/14/2011 3:48:50 PM

Quote :

"ALE and ABC are useless"

ALE is not useless! They have an important duty to pad Bev's state budget by oppressively harassing/ticketing otherwise law abiding 18-20 yr old adults about having a fucking beer on the weekend.

Even the ALE president has to know that they will never stop underage 18-20 year old adults from drinking. They just figure a little money can be made on the fact.

12/14/2011 3:55:02 PM

With diligence.

12/14/2011 3:55:11 PM

Not even going to attempt huh

12/14/2011 4:00:19 PM

haha, I'm not a lawyer/politician, nor have I ever spent time attempting to write/word legislation and I don't intend to now. Just because people have idea/opinions but don't have the correct training to draft legislation doesn't exclude them.

12/14/2011 4:02:51 PM

Quote :

"On that note I do not think the ABC enforces any laws, they just sell the booze."

They actually have a small law enforcement arm that are used in a few counties throughout the state.

Quote :

"BAFTE has done nothing but pander to the Obama admin's anti-firearm views."

Is it really pandering if they are part of Obama's Executive branch?

12/14/2011 4:03:14 PM

yes.

12/14/2011 9:08:48 PM

Quote :

"haha, I'm not a lawyer/politician, nor have I ever spent time attempting to write/word legislation and I don't intend to now. Just because people have idea/opinions but don't have the correct training to draft legislation doesn't exclude them."

Your "ideas/opinions" are just a subjective assessment of whether you personally feel a regulation is tyrannical. Can you provide a single objective measure by which such a law could be written?

12/15/2011 10:15:13 AM

actual harm directly done to another idividual(s).

12/15/2011 10:32:30 AM

Define "actual". There's all kinds of harms, mental, emotional, physical, social, the list goes on.

[Edited on December 15, 2011 at 10:38 AM. Reason : .]

12/15/2011 10:37:32 AM

these substances are already banned under the Controlled Substance Analogue Enforcement Act and have been since the 80's. The DEA is just firming up cases against any future sales of these drugs. If you want to bitch about the DEA being too powerful, you're 25 years late to the party.

hell, they threw a chemist in prison for making ALD-52 in the sixties, claiming he knew the body would convert the chemical into LSD in the body. they don't even need laws to throw drug dealers in jail if someone with power decides it's time for them to go.

[Edited on December 15, 2011 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

12/15/2011 12:28:44 PM

some 'define this' going on in here now. definition of is, is

[Edited on December 15, 2011 at 2:21 PM. Reason : define this]

12/15/2011 2:20:58 PM

Can you just be honest and admit you hate regulation, period, instead of this charade where you act like there's any kind of nuance to your populist anti-alphabet-soup-agency ranting?

12/15/2011 2:30:24 PM

Quote :

"Define "actual". There's all kinds of harms, mental, emotional, physical, social, the list goes on. "

I think that suggests you would like me to define 'harm' moreso than 'actual'

^open ended powers are a dangerous tool...Yes congress gave this entity it's 'emergency power', but the very fact that this is considered emergency enough to exercise those powers is evidence of its potential for abuse.

12/15/2011 3:20:34 PM

^^I hate unnecessary and unfounded regulation. The state should not be in the business of selling alcohol. The BAFTE should not be infringing second amendment rights by banning importation of "scary" looking firearms, when very similar firearms (and those that have nearly the exact same action) can be manufactured/purchased within the U.S, nor should they be imposing registration requirements on some law abiding citizens in only some states when they purchase firearms from dealers because 1) BAFTE paperwork is already required to purchase a firearm from a dealer and more paper work doesn't solve crimes and 2) congress has already said BAFTE is not allowed to enact registration rules. ALE shouldn't be a hound dog for ruining young people's lives because they drank a beer; why can't normal police handle this when it's an actual problem?

12/15/2011 3:30:07 PM

Quote :

"ALE shouldn't be a hound dog for ruining young people's lives because they drank a beer; why can't normal police handle this when it's an actual problem?"

i've never understood this.

I figure the 21 year old drinking age was set to discourage immature stupid actions, but not actually to ensure 100% of 18-20 year olds don't drink. This is kind of like the speed limit. Many people drive over the lspeed limit just like many young people drink under the age limit. Just as long as you are only moderately drinking or moderately speeding the cops are not going to harass you. On the other hand if you are going 20 over the speed limit or you are out of control drunk causing issues then the police are going to slap you with an underage drinking ticket.

12/16/2011 7:45:12 PM