well shit.

what do you think the odds of getting in would be if I just showed up for an interview anyway?

1/12/2012 6:59:28 PM

Change your name to something asian?

1/12/2012 7:01:23 PM

what schools? what programs?

1/12/2012 7:02:23 PM

neuroscience / computational neuroscience

1/12/2012 7:03:28 PM

what schools

1/12/2012 7:04:51 PM

ucsd
uwash
ucsf

1/12/2012 7:06:55 PM

Don't give up. Don't ever give up.

-Jim Valvano

1/12/2012 7:06:59 PM

Can you work or volunteer or intern or anything for a year in a related field and try again?

1/12/2012 7:07:26 PM

^ thats the plan. I have a sweet contract gig that I can work from anywhere, so Im planning on volunteering in a lab and auditing classes with the prof that I want to work with.

1/12/2012 7:08:44 PM

That's what one of my friends did at Duke. She worked in a lab for like a year and then used that experience to get into a doctorate program

1/12/2012 7:16:13 PM

Good luck man. I've always regretted not going to grad school. Not really, but I think I would've had a good time.

1/12/2012 7:19:24 PM

Tough break nigga theys always fubu

1/12/2012 7:19:24 PM

What program?

My gf starts UW's doctorate of dentistry in September.


Im looking for a good Human Resource Management program

1/12/2012 7:20:02 PM

Take your life.

1/12/2012 7:23:27 PM

good luck, it's all about who you know

1/12/2012 7:27:40 PM

Take your life.

1/12/2012 7:58:53 PM

Quote :

"I have a sweet contract gig that I can work from anywhere, so Im planning on volunteering in a lab and auditing classes with the prof that I want to work with."

Sounds about right. More and more people seem to be doing post-bach work or temp work/internships to get into grad programs these days. Working with a prof in the program seems like a smart move. Good luck with it.

1/12/2012 9:00:32 PM

1/12/2012 9:25:13 PM

You have dishonored your family

1/12/2012 9:34:05 PM

Quote :

"good luck, it's all about who you know"

this isn't even close to true. did you just make this up?

1/13/2012 12:28:57 AM

lol.

it's completely true.


people with great contacts within places, be it grad school or an employer, are always... ALWAYS... more apt to get into those places than some guy of the street, even if said guy off the street has better credentials.

1/13/2012 12:34:18 AM

okay dude, i got offers at 4/6 schools and didn't know anyone.

more over, no one i know got into the program b/c they knew anyone.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 12:43 AM. Reason : and the program's #1 in the country for the last six years. yep.]

1/13/2012 12:39:15 AM

yep. and I got into every law school I applied to without even knowing a single lawyer.


but that doesn't mean that knowing people isn't the surest way to reach whatever goal you've got.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 12:43 AM. Reason : .]

1/13/2012 12:42:50 AM

well, grad schools are more merit based, which is also a bad thing in certain ways.

It depends on demand (which can't be repeated enough), but grad schools as an institution look at what is on your transcript and what else you've done to see if it looks prestigious enough.

Most grad programs don't accept you to a particular research group to start out with, and you have to fight for that in your first year. That is a total polar opposite of the selection process for a company where it matters much more who you know and how much the decision makers there "feel" like you're a good fit for the role. Many people posting ITT don't seem to understand the distinction.

What I'm saying is that grad school acceptance is mostly a combination of:
- supply / demand
- what you have on paper to your name

This is why I see so many people who "applied to 30 grad schools" and didn't get in. No shit. You repeat the same experiment over and over and you'll get the same result. For another candidate and area, it would instead be 30/30 (although they quit because they have their desired school).

Some people are going to say this applies to other jobs as well. But the point is what is missing, with is a higher importance of "connections" and "fit".

1/13/2012 12:43:05 AM

Quote :

"yep. and I got into every law school I applied to without even knowing a single lawyer. but that doesn't mean that knowing people isn't the surest way to reach whatever goal you've got."

law school is not the same at all. professors don't hire students as a favor, they have way too much invested in it.

also, this is absurd that you're even arguing w/ me, given that you've never applied to grad school and i'm awesome at it. law school doesn't count. not that i don't respect a JD; it's just apples and oranges.

and let me just address this: having taken classes with or working for a professor that knows a professor somewhere else can help you, obviously. but that's not what this is about.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 12:52 AM. Reason : .]

1/13/2012 12:45:30 AM

true, it is apples/oranges, so i'll concede to your point... though i'm not completely ignorant to the world of grad school, since my gf has a PhD. and I went through a lot of that with her.


i'll have a better idea, I suppose, next year at this time... given that no, i haven't ever applied to grad school, but i'm in the process of putting together my MPA application currently.


keep up the good work though!

1/13/2012 12:55:27 AM

oh and to answer this

Quote :

"what do you think the odds of getting in would be if I just showed up for an interview anyway?"

pretty low. if they don't have money for you this semester, they don't have money for you this semester.

have you talked to the guy about potentially working w/ him in the future?

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 1:07 AM. Reason : not 0%]

1/13/2012 1:06:50 AM

Stay in school and give the banks more leverage over your future--I bet that's why you don't have a job!

1/13/2012 2:34:30 AM

shit. I applied to UWash for the fall of this year hoping to get into their Computer Science program. Is that the same semester you applied for? I just checked my email and I haven't heard back from them yet.

1/13/2012 2:44:26 AM

^^ higher education in the sciences and engineering almost always includes tuition, health insurance and stipend. banks have nothing to do w/ anything here.

1/13/2012 3:15:57 AM

A lot of people pay for masters degrees these days and I know a lot of people that have to take out loans as a supplement while getting a Ph.d.

1/13/2012 9:45:09 AM

Quote :

"Stay in school and give the banks more leverage over your future--I bet that's why you don't have a job! "

All programs I applied to were fully funded + stipend and insurance. And I have a very nice job, thx.

Quote :

"shit. I applied to UWash for the fall of this year hoping to get into their Computer Science program."

its a different program so they wouldn't have anything to do with one another. you can check out the forums on thegradcafe.com if you want to see if people have gotten interviews/rejected from your specific program

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2012 2:03:49 PM

^^A lot of people are morons these days as well

1/13/2012 2:11:42 PM

I, too, was rejected from all the PhD. programs I applied to. Granted, they were all funded and probably out of my league but that's what my adviser pushed me to do. Right now and especially at public institutions they just don't have the money to admit that many funded students. A lot of the schools I applied to even told me that they normally admit 25 or so students but because of budget cuts they're down to around 5 seats. Many schools would have taken me if I paid for it.

I also firmly believe that knowing people will get you in one of those seats. It's not really about knowing the person that's on the selection committee or whatever, but having a close relationship to a professor in your current program that is renown and has connections elsewhere. I've heard of people getting into PhD programs just with a phone call. Not all seats are filled this way obviously, but some are.

I ended up getting a double master's in two years at State, a great job at State, and my CV is probably ten times what it was when I applied out of undergrad. Even if I never get into a PhD program (not sure if I'll even apply again), I've invested very well in my education and now have the ability to secure a high level job whereas with only my undergrad I'd probably be at a SECU call center like half my friends.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ^It all depends what degree you're paying for and what field you're trying to get in.]

1/13/2012 2:14:14 PM

Quote :

"All programs I applied to were fully funded + stipend and insurance. And I have a very nice job, thx."

Yes, these programs can be good deals (especially if you make swift progress). But undergrad probably wasn't all paid for. I'm surprised how many people I know in grad programs have deferred loans. They sit there, not getting paid on, and build up interest.

It's much more of a debt burden as opposed to those who come out with a bachelors, go straight to a job, paying off the debt. I'm not saying this is you, but it is definitely a lot of the people you worked/work with.

Quote :

"A lot of people pay for masters degrees these days and I know a lot of people that have to take out loans as a supplement while getting a Ph.d."

I can't think of any field, I mean any field, where you have to pay for everything through Ph.D., and getting the degree leaves you financially better off.

Now, there are fields where you can't make it unless you do this. I'm just saying those fields are indisputably uneconomic, and I can't think of anything that would be closer to debt slavery.

1/13/2012 2:14:37 PM

theyre not your grad schools

1/13/2012 2:25:27 PM

^^

Let's do a little opportunity cost analysis. Most of my friends with PhDs spent about 7 years getting the degree. There is some level of post doc work going on after that. How much are you losing out on if you forego work for 7+ years to do a PhD? It better be a HUGE salary to recoup that and pay off.

It's different if you love it of course...

1/13/2012 5:19:50 PM

I know you're being cool about it and all, but sorry about the rejections, 1985. Sucks.

It looks like you're on the right track with your current plan.

Also, "computational neuroscience" sounds awesome!

^According to my understanding, it often is a HUGE salary if you're interested in working for the big bucks. And, in my opinion, it's foolish to apply opportunity cost to everything, especially long-term individual situations. I mean, anything can happen in 7 years--instead of pursuing school, he could get a really secure job, make dat money, buy a great house, and then get laid off and watch his home lose a third of its value in two years.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ]

1/13/2012 5:28:45 PM

So people applying for Phds -- what made you want to decide to get a Phd? I'm really on the fence (just got out of masters program)

1/13/2012 5:31:48 PM

I will say, I agree that knowing someone does matter a lot. It makes sense, though - if you don't know someone from Adam you obviously won't have a 100% sure judgement on them, but if you do know someone or at least someone you know knows someone else they can give you more of a judgement in your favor versus what's on paper (I hope that all made sense)

Basically, it's more trustworthy when you know someone (obviously not the case all the time, but in many situations yes)

1/13/2012 5:34:05 PM

^^you really need to love the subject, love to teach and/or do research, love to write (publish), like the academic job setting (including all of the arrogance and bullshit, but also the laid-back atmosphere and working for yourself for the most part).

Academia is great and I love higher education administration and I get to see first hand how great the professors have it. keep in mind that the professors we get at State are pretty damn good. look up your favorite professor's CV and you see pages of publications, conferences presentations, co-author, etc. and chances are they come from a great school. They've earned there place here some way or another and having a PhD does not guarantee you a job.

Publish or perish is so true. You need to love to write and research for months and go through all of the hassle of trying to get published. The bottom line is you need to be a good writer and you need to have strong convictions about what you are writing about and the creativity to consider new angles. Teaching pays your salary, publishing moves your career.

obviously, a PhD in math isn't going to emphasize writing, but this is how it is for social sciences, humanities, etc.

edit: looking at your profile I see you're a theater, acting, arts major and I have no clue what PhD's in that field do/require.

[Edited on January 13, 2012 at 6:03 PM. Reason : social science pov]

1/13/2012 6:02:12 PM

Dude I applied to something like 10-12 schools and got accepted to 4 or 5 idk. apply to more scools next time. and grad school SUCKS.

But I am sorry man, I feel for ya.

1/13/2012 6:47:54 PM

yeah I applied to 9 for my PhD, so far just have one acceptance, but two recruiting visits. I had 4 picked out originally but my advisor told me to apply to more.

(CE-Transportation, finishing my MS at NCSU now)

1/13/2012 8:02:24 PM

did you guys not email professors before you applied?

who applies to a phd program w/o talking to anyone? and who applies to 10 schools? that's so many.

1/13/2012 8:21:26 PM

you fail at life..time to commit suicide I bet that is 50 grand in loans down the drain

1/13/2012 8:25:04 PM