http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/04/marine-corps-women-infantry-combat-dunford-amos-041812/?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150750191909570_22182065_10150750540609570#f170fad548

Discuss.

4/19/2012 9:55:56 PM

So are they just going to lower the standards, or keep it entirely male still by default?

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

4/19/2012 9:57:58 PM

Quote :

"WILLIAM PEACE MARINES"

4/19/2012 9:58:24 PM

well?

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

4/19/2012 9:58:25 PM

The American public has a hard enough time losing its sons on the front line.

4/19/2012 10:02:12 PM

IOC is no joke. If a female makes, she deserves it.
but if they lower the standards... bleh

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

4/19/2012 10:02:38 PM

Quote :

"So are they just going to lower the standards, or keep it entirely male still by default?"

They're going to lower standards. But they won't say so. They'll call it something else.

They'll likely move toward a common test for both men and women, possibly with common passing standards for both genders, but that common standard will be lower than the previous male-only physical fitness requirement. But you won't be able to prove that it's lower, because they will be 'job-oriented' tests, and not have a direct comparison to the old standards of pull-ups, situps, run, etc.

4/19/2012 10:08:30 PM

Great. Just like everywhere else in the military, some of the females will end up being banged by at least one dude in her unit. Then comes jealousy, attachment, embarrassment, favoritism etc. etc. and it does terrible things to morale and team unity.

Also, can you imagine how nasty those bitches are gonna stink after months in the field?

FWIW, I'm a fan of females in the military. Just not in direct combat operations.

4/19/2012 11:32:37 PM

[image]http://www.outie.net/forums/attach/[2]Israel8.jpe[/image]





(OLD) Bad for the cause but good for morale? I can't even trip, because i'm just laughing' atcha...yadig?

4/19/2012 11:56:31 PM

So, I am a 1stLt in the Marine Corps. I fly AH-1W super cobra attack helicopters. No different then me, every female officer in the Corps had to go through TBS which has combat training in it. It is not as intense and in depth as IOC (infantry officer course). however, i have watched a few stap under the simulated combat and the stress they put us under. In TBS the final hike is a 15 mile hike where you carry your large pack and rifle. EVERYONE carries the same amount unless you were tasked with a radio, SAW, or machine gun. I knew a girl who was about 4'10" and could fit in her pack and she made it carrying the same pack i had to carry. She had the heart and physical ability she needed to make it. A lot of girls are just as good as the men but the big problem is whether they can handle the mental stress of combat and make decisions. The physical side of it isnt a question and its complicated to explain why but trust me, any woman who makes it through TBS and IOC will be able to physically handle combat.

HOWEVER, women have their periods, mental/mood swings which effect life in the field. MEN are meant for combat and have the mind set for it. They wont lower the standards for IOC. Only exceptions for women are the PFT and CFT. Their are quality women who can make it though and I think if they can....its good because then they are trained properly and we need them in situations like handling civilian women at checkpoints and on patrols, etc. The women are there and in combat regardless if you give them the MOS of infantry or not.

Lastly, If you lower any standard it compromises lives in combat.

4/20/2012 12:07:26 AM

Quote :

"EVERYONE carries the same amount "

Sort of...

Quote :

"unless you were tasked with a radio, SAW, or machine gun"

...how often did you ever see a female Lt with a SAW or 240G? How often do you think they'll end up with the mortar tubes/plates in IOC?

I know when I did TBS, too, that we would spread-load some of the heavier gear belonging to our little 115-lb females (E-tools and stuff like that). They certainly weren't humping an empty pack or anything, but we'd get 5-10 lbs out of it for them, knowing that they were going to be PAOs or comptrollers or adjutants or whatever, and whether or not they could make it 20 miles with that extra 5 lbs was pretty much irrelevant.

4/20/2012 12:24:29 AM

but i would see male LT's doing this, females will lower the standards, i saw this first hand

[Edited on April 20, 2012 at 12:27 AM. Reason : dont need those]

[Edited on April 20, 2012 at 12:27 AM. Reason : blah]

4/20/2012 12:26:56 AM

well the girl in my fire squad was tasked with a SAW so she carried it everywhere. Only times she didnt was when we moved it around so that everyone could get a peice of it during actual firing situations. The hike she carried it the entire time. I never saw anyone carry other peoples gear meant for their pack unless we had to stuff a radio in their pack. Case in which we spread out some of their gear to balance out the weight to everyone.

so not the exact weight but pretty much everyone is carrying about the same amount. Only the big guys who carried MGs had it a bit rougher.
when it comes to mortar tubes and plates....I dont know how that would go but I know guys who went to it and couldnt and didnt handle it. Some of girls will be able to handle the weight but that 4 foot nothing girl didnt want infantry, so you dont have to even question it. Those girls arent going to make it in that situation either.

The ones who want it and can actually make it will go. They may or may not make it but I still believe that its not entirely smart because of mental and some female issues. However, they are already in the situation where they are in combat. so why not train them and only send them into those situations rather then untrained women.

4/20/2012 12:39:02 AM

Quote :

"So, I am a 1stLt in the Marine Corps. I fly AH-1W super cobra attack helicopters. No different then me, every female officer in the Corps had to go through TBS which has combat training in it. It is not as intense and in depth as IOC (infantry officer course). however, i have watched a few stap under the simulated combat and the stress they put us under. In TBS the final hike is a 15 mile hike where you carry your large pack and rifle. EVERYONE carries the same amount unless you were tasked with a radio, SAW, or machine gun. I knew a girl who was about 4'10" and could fit in her pack and she made it carrying the same pack i had to carry. She had the heart and physical ability she needed to make it. A lot of girls are just as good as the men but the big problem is whether they can handle the mental stress of combat and make decisions. The physical side of it isnt a question and its complicated to explain why but trust me, any woman who makes it through TBS and IOC will be able to physically handle combat."

That is one time. Real infantry work means doing that regularly over many years. And a woman's body just isn't able to take the repeated physical abuse that even the less capable men can. Feminism can't change bones.

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/5/456?ijkey=7e904f603a574abac9ab24caacdd9e64aac8f302&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Plus, there is a lot more at stake than long marches. I wouldn't go into combat with female who can't lift her 110-130 lbs over a pull-up bar more than a few times.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2012/01/marine-no-pullups-for-women-physical-fitness-test-011612w/

The top 10% of female marines could do 6 pull-ups. These are women who will be 2/3 (likely even less) the weight of an average man, and even their elite can't pull their own weight up more than 10 times. If she can suffer through a long march, good for her. There is a reason why Marines love pull-ups. They are a fantastic measure of upper body strength, and raw upper body strength does actually matter.

For good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKUnr3y9lZo

The fat, middle-aged male firefighters hanging around your local volunteer department just might carry you out of a bad situation better than the top 1% of female marines. They can't do any pull-ups. But they could probably get the job done.

[Edited on April 20, 2012 at 5:56 AM. Reason : a]

4/20/2012 5:50:00 AM

I'm just happy to see that Fareako can finally fulfill a longtime goal of attending the IOC.

4/20/2012 8:34:52 AM

4/20/2012 8:38:39 AM

^^

4/20/2012 1:58:24 PM

Quote :

"HOWEVER, women have their periods, mental/mood swings which effect life in the field. MEN are meant for combat and have the mind set for it."

LOL at the idea that men don't have mood swings and are not susceptible to changes in brain chemistry.

4/20/2012 2:29:34 PM

yes thats what he said

4/20/2012 3:42:29 PM

Quote :

"HOWEVER, women have their periods, mental/mood swings which effect life in the field"

you know that modern medicine allows us to NOT have periods, right?

4/20/2012 3:53:27 PM

but we still have all that other crap

4/20/2012 3:54:23 PM

i'm strictly addressing the point about periods. i'm not sure what other crap you have.

4/20/2012 3:56:46 PM

lol you're high strung today

4/20/2012 3:59:51 PM

what?

4/20/2012 4:01:31 PM

Quote :

"lol you're high strung today"

lol

4/20/2012 4:13:36 PM

NO.

4/20/2012 5:10:54 PM

This will not end well.

4/20/2012 5:12:26 PM

Im all for equality, but this is fucking stupid. The military is not the place for social engineering.

4/20/2012 6:15:42 PM

Quote :

" I'm just happy to see that Fareako can finally fulfill a longtime goal of attending the IOC."

Lolz

4/20/2012 6:23:56 PM

I'm willing to bet that it's a calculated political move by the high brass to maintain favor when it comes time to start funding the Corps.

4/20/2012 8:07:57 PM

High Brass Knockers amirite?

4/20/2012 8:35:12 PM

yes, like i said theres more to it then just what i talked about. so yes i know some could handle some of it. but im not gonna act like there arent some women out there who couldnt do it and neither can you.

the period thing isnt something you can get out of because having to take that medicine wouldnt be forced upon you and would have to be a choice to take, since its a choice....its a liability.

and yes men do have mental issues too but not as badly as most women. Not in the frequency women have them either. im talking about generalization in this sense.

like i said give them the chance, if they cant hack it or its not effective, the military will stop doing it. i dont think that it will work out in thelong run but i do think a few could do it.

4/20/2012 11:48:57 PM

Quote :

"if they cant hack it or its not effective, the military will stop doing it"

From what im hearing, that is not actually how it works. The military has bowed so often to lobbyist pressure on hot topic items in the last decade, I doubt that when the results come in poor, which they will, that they'll actually go through all that complicated bullshit again. But come on, government, dont fuck with the marines of all things. women remove the violent side of men. Its why they comprise so much of the prison guard population and why its still so taboo to knock them around when they really need it. and unless these women are going to be given away to the marine who displays the most daring behavior, on a nearly basic animal level, men are hardwired toward pacifism around women. If this is what we've come to, then what the fuck are we fighting for exactly? you know the "big picture" stuff.
this fucks with the pillars of reality

4/21/2012 4:32:33 AM

Quote :

"HOWEVER, women have their periods, mental/mood swings which effect life in the field. MEN are meant for combat and have the mind set for it. They wont lower the standards for IOC. Only exceptions for women are the PFT and CFT. Their are quality women who can make it though and I think if they can....its good because then they are trained properly and we need them in situations like handling civilian women at checkpoints and on patrols, etc. The women are there and in combat regardless if you give them the MOS of infantry or not. "

Ha ha.

So I suppose you feel a woman can also never be president.

SHE'LL HAVE A BAD PERIOD AND PUSH THE RED BUTTON.

Rampant sexism ITT.

Quote :

"and why its still so taboo to knock them around when they really need it."

Wow. Just... wow.


ok i read the rest of Fermat's post and he is clearly trolling

[Edited on April 21, 2012 at 4:58 AM. Reason : .]

4/21/2012 4:56:20 AM

The military has always been used for social experiment by the federal government.

However as a veteran of the infantry I can say that the type of girl who would want to do that type of stuff is in no real danger of creating....divisiveness in the ranks.

4/21/2012 11:18:06 AM

Quote :

"Rampant sexism ITT."

Yeah: I'm not even going to bother.

4/21/2012 11:22:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjxmU46ZvSU

4/21/2012 6:49:17 PM

Quote :

""if they cant hack it or its not effective, the military will stop doing it""

Oh man, if only that were the case for every idea the Army had that didn't work...

[Edited on April 21, 2012 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2012 6:52:39 PM

^ same in our house

4/21/2012 10:30:31 PM

Obviously you guys didn't see that war movie where Demi Moore did push-ups.

4/22/2012 1:08:22 AM

its no different then most stereotypes that are pretty much true for most of who its about.

4/22/2012 1:13:03 AM

stereo-types/ reproducible results

i really wish those claiming science mindedness were as effective at separating emotion from analysis.

THANKS COLLEGE FUCK FUCKING UP THE PLANET

6/19/2012 4:47:01 PM

Blah

[Edited on June 19, 2012 at 5:21 PM. Reason : blah]

6/19/2012 5:19:59 PM

So.. yeaahh...

http://marinecorpstimes.com/mobile/news/2012/10/marine-corps-womem-infantry-officers-course-101512

Quote :

"The Marine Corps’ effort to evaluate whether more combat jobs should open to women marked another milestone last week when the second of two female volunteers washed out of infantry officer training."

10/29/2012 10:35:44 PM

se7entythree sucks

10/29/2012 10:39:23 PM

i'd like to take this time to say that women's PFA standards are a joke in the navy.


check that, in general navy PFA standards are a joke, women's are just that much more ridiculous.

10/29/2012 11:02:40 PM

The system works.

10/29/2012 11:11:19 PM

Quote :

"The next IOC will begin this winter. So far, no new volunteers have emerged, said Maj. Shawn Haney, a spokeswoman for Manpower and Reserve Affairs in Quantico, the command leading the Marine Corps’ research. Nevertheless, she said, the experiences of these first two volunteers will prove valuable as senior leaders contemplate potential next moves. As part of the Corps’ ongoing review, officials have opened nearly 400 jobs in select ground combat units — billets in artillery and tank battalions, among others — to female officers and staff noncommissioned officers. Previously, only men were allowed to fill those jobs. Additionally, Marine officials are exploring whether the service should develop “gender-neutral” physical standards."

10/30/2012 9:31:30 AM

Quote :

"A little more than 3,500 years have passed, and in God Emperor of Dune Leto is now almost fully transformed into a sandworm. He is almost invulnerable to physical damage; his single weakness that he shares with the sandworms, an intense vulnerability to water, is a secret. "Leto's peace" has kept the universe quiet for that time, and the entirety of human society has become an audience for him. He is their emperor; he is their god. His all-female army of Fish Speakers keeps order and act as priestesses. Leto believes that a female army is a nurturing disciplinarian, while a male army is essentially predatory, always turns against its civilian support base in the absence of an enemy, and has "a strong tendency toward homosexual activities."[3]"

10/30/2012 9:47:50 AM

i came in here to make a joke about sucking a golf ball through a garden hose.

10/30/2012 12:10:02 PM