http://www.npr.org/2012/07/07/156416876/scrantons-public-workers-pay-cut-to-minimum-wage

1. They should have fired more, because public employees add no value.

2. They should be able to pay even less because minimum wage is wrong.

3.

4. I've gone ahead and made the 2 arguments most of you are going to make so you can proceed to actually discussing how a city can seriously get out of this.

7/9/2012 2:26:31 PM

Public teacher, police, firefighter, and bureaucratic positions all suffer from the same problem. No one knows how much they should be paid. For private sector jobs, wages are ultimately determined by the market. With public sector jobs, the market can't possibly work. Workers are all either underpaid (meaning that the quality candidates go to better, more high paying professions) or overpaid (meaning that they never go anywhere else because this is the best they can do). Either way, the people paying taxes get screwed. High quality teachers and police are the rare exception, not the rule.

When your wages come from taxation and not from voluntarily transactions, income is only guaranteed while there are people to steal from. When the income potential of future generations has been undermined for decades (usually in favor of present-day consumption), eventually you run out of ways to fund what were previously considered mainstays of a first world society. Now, after decades of damage being done, you ask for the way out? Sure, raise taxes on a city that has seen steady population decline. I'm sure that will work out well.

There isn't a way out. Accept it and move on, or don't. What has happened in this city will happen in many others.

7/9/2012 3:07:23 PM

Paying tribute to protection rackets is so smart, why'd we ever bother to form "government" in the first place? Must have been tricked into doing it by some demons.

Please don't tell me that you're in grad school writing a thesis about theoretical anarchist societies.

[Edited on July 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM. Reason : x]

7/9/2012 3:10:43 PM

The city is broke for the same reason that thousands of other cities are broke around the country; they handed out ridiculous pension packages to public workers in return for support from the unions.

Chapter 9 bankruptcy is probably the only solution at this point. Under chapter 9, they can renegotiate those unsustainable pension packages.

7/9/2012 3:25:42 PM

Quote :

"After paying workers Friday, the city had only about $5,000 left in the bank."

Quote :

"The firefighters' union, along with the police and public works unions, have taken the city to court. Lackawanna County Judge Michael Barrasse issued an injunction, essentially agreeing with the unions that the city was breaking the law"

Blood from a turnip anyone?

I mean what do they want to be paid with, that enough money to cover the lawyers going to court to say "Yea we owe you more money but all that's left is a box of sugar packets from the break room"

7/9/2012 3:31:20 PM

to me, it sound like the city doesn't need so many public employees, to me.

7/9/2012 3:34:46 PM

7/9/2012 3:36:21 PM

^what does that have to do with this story?

7/9/2012 3:50:44 PM

Quote :

"Paying tribute to protection rackets is so smart, why'd we ever bother to form "government" in the first place? Must have been tricked into doing it by some demons. Please don't tell me that you're in grad school writing a thesis about theoretical anarchist societies."

We didn't form anything. Even the founders of the U.S. didn't have the consent of the people living in the country at that time, much less the consent of those that would come centuries later.

And no, I'm not in grad school, I work. It's possible to educate yourself outside of an academic setting.

7/9/2012 3:53:51 PM

Not legal. You have to notify employees of rate changes before they put in the hours. All those folks should contact their state attorney general and the department of labor.

I don't remember the actual percentage, but at some point a pay cut qualifies you for unemployment. Most professionals would surely qualify if they were cut to minimum wage. I'm sure the city will be better off after all those employees apply for unemployment and receive 80% of their previous wages for sitting on their asses rather than working for a living. Nobody except the mayor is going to accept minimum wage just because the mayor and city council can't get their shit together.

He should have just paid them as usual and let the checks bounce. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Edited on July 9, 2012 at 7:26 PM. Reason : s]

7/9/2012 7:20:35 PM

this is hilarious.

anyone whose ever worked for a municipality and moved on will agree.

7/9/2012 8:20:30 PM

I think it's funny that (at least in NC) if a city or county spends money it doesn't have, the state comes in and takes over basically immediately. But when the state spends money it doesn't have, nobody says a word.

But yeah if I was working for the local government I'd be suing the hell out of them.

And even though my masters was in local government (and thus I'm obviously not anti local government and pubilc employees) I'll agree that if they don't have the money to pay all your employees a decent wage you should let some of them go. As for only having 5000 in the bank, that's why you have a decently sized fund balance. If simple employee wages are cutting into your fund balance every month you need to do something about it before you get to the point of having to pay everyone minimum wage.

[Edited on July 10, 2012 at 12:50 AM. Reason : ]

7/10/2012 12:45:55 AM

masters in local government?

is that exactly what the degree is called?

or do you have like an MPA?

just curious.

7/10/2012 12:53:09 AM

Yes it's an MPA

[Edited on July 10, 2012 at 1:12 AM. Reason : But it was geared toward local government policy]

7/10/2012 1:12:10 AM

Quote :

"No one knows how much they should be paid. "

It certainly isn't as cut and dry as the private sector, but the public sector certainly does have ways of making reasonably responsible and informed decisions about pay and benefits. Obviously this example is not one of those times.

7/10/2012 1:49:48 AM

7/10/2012 4:57:00 AM

most of the time your pics and quotes detract from the conversation

7/10/2012 9:54:19 AM

Quote :

"We didn't form anything. Even the founders of the U.S. didn't have the consent of the people living in the country at that time, much less the consent of those that would come centuries later."

What are you getting on about here?

7/10/2012 1:13:31 PM

Quote :

"According to the paper, Scranton—which faces a $16.8 million budget deficit—had $133,000 in cash on hand as of Monday, but owed $3.4 million in various vendor bills, including health insurance"

Quote :

"Obama scores $71 million in June, far less than Romney"

7/10/2012 1:15:05 PM

Ok? Is there some hidden Illuminati meaning in that?

7/10/2012 1:22:05 PM

^^^^

7/10/2012 1:22:57 PM

so call obama and tell him to give all his money to dunder mifflen yourself

7/10/2012 1:34:22 PM

genius, you're just confusing yourself and everybody else. jeez man, just stop posting, you're doing your "causes" a disservice.

7/10/2012 1:37:18 PM

Nobody cares what you think, Bullet.

7/10/2012 1:42:12 PM

that may very well be true, but i'm pretty sure everyone disregards pretty much everything you say, because you present everything as some looney conspiracy (even if some of it has merit).

7/10/2012 1:47:20 PM

You have an obsession with me and only me. Your focus should be on the issues, not on me.

Instead of fighting me, try something new... fighting with me.

7/10/2012 1:52:12 PM

as i've mentioned, it's very hard to focus on the issues when you're constantly spouting crazy conspiracy theories and posting silly pics that aren't even relevant to the discussion half the time. i'd like to fight with you, but you're way too far out there.

7/10/2012 1:55:16 PM

You don't even try.

Start a running list.

.TRUE   |   FALSE
.===============
.       |
.       |
.       |
.       |

7/10/2012 2:01:04 PM

that's the problem. i rarely see any facts in your posts. i see a lot of assumptions you make and conclusions you draw, but i don't see the "facts" that cause you to make those assumptions and come to those conclusions.

[Edited on July 10, 2012 at 2:22 PM. Reason : ]

7/10/2012 2:18:51 PM

These are not facts?

Quote :

"According to the paper, Scranton—which faces a $16.8 million budget deficit—had $133,000 in cash on hand as of Monday, but owed $3.4 million in various vendor bills, including health insurance"

Quote :

"Obama scores $71 million in June, far less than Romney"

7/10/2012 2:41:54 PM

by themselves, yes, they are facts. but i think you're trying to use those facts to conclude some sort of conspiracy theory that is not supported by those facts.

it's like saying the sky is light blue. that's a fact! therefore, god is a unc fan.

7/10/2012 3:00:55 PM

Quote :

""

If only the gov. had a mechanism for collecting money from large amounts of people, similar to political campaigns... if only...

7/10/2012 4:00:48 PM

If only politicians knew how to spend the money they collect...wisely

7/10/2012 4:05:03 PM

LOS ANGELES (CNS) - Supervisor Mike Antonovich wants to know if Los Angeles County is headed down the road that led Stockton to bankruptcy and has put San Bernardino in financial ruin.

The lone Republican on the five-member board asked the county's chief executive officer for a report on how Los Angeles County's fiscal practices compare to those of Stockton, his spokesman said today.

``Stockton's bankruptcy provides an ominous warning for other municipalities who fail to apply fiscally responsible policies in their budgetary planning,'' Antonovich said, speaking at the weekly Board of Supervisors meeting.

``Rather than matching spending to revenue, they float bonds in order to cover escalating costs for retiree health care, pensions and public facilities and capital improvements. This is a recipe for fiscal collapse.''

Stockton, a city of nearly 300,000 and the seat of San Joaquin Valley, recently filed for bankruptcy. On Tuesday, the San Bernardino City Council, facing about $46 million in debt, also voted to seek Chapter 9 bankruptcy, and city officials said some public employees may not get paid in coming months.

Chapter 9 enables municipal governments to be shielded from creditors while reorganizing its finances.

Posted by David Perez
KFI News

http://www.kfiam640.com/pages/NEWS.html?feed=421898&article=10262700#.T_57zprsN3k.facebook

7/12/2012 3:46:51 AM

"minimum wag" -- in the event you are a footballer (rest of world status), your wife and/or girlfriend must be atleast this hot

7/12/2012 11:41:37 PM

TRUE STATEMENT: Dwight owns a beet farm

TRUE STATEMENT: There is a farm bill passing through congress

CONCLUSION: Dwight will get all your money!

7/13/2012 9:15:57 AM

7/16/2012 10:15:55 AM

Someone should make a parody thread about Scantron doing something similar.

7/16/2012 2:34:22 PM