http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/justice/alabama-student-killed/index.html?hpt=us_c2

10/8/2012 11:55:53 AM

if were gonna shoot every wrestler thats run around naked then there wont be any wrestlers left

10/8/2012 11:57:21 AM

Quote :

" the student's mother and one of his friends said they could not understand how a six-year varsity wrestler and good-natured teenager could have died under such strange and sad circumstances."

I'm placing my money on bath salts.

10/8/2012 11:57:33 AM

he probably wrestled 135 but weighs at LEAST 155...plus the kid doesnt wrestle anymore fo god knows how much he weighs at this moment

from the situation the officer described I feel like thered be no choice but to put the guy down, he was obviously drugged

The first shot dropped him, but he still took it and smiled

this is why i think everyone should fight at least once, then youd realize what a crapshoot it can be to engage a person physically, even if they are smaller the vast majority of the sedentary population just doesnt understand it is not as easy as "o this big cop should be able to wreck this small 18 year old kid"



[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 12:11 PM. Reason : r]

10/8/2012 12:00:08 PM

I bet when he fell down on his stomach naked, there was a real bonerjam

10/8/2012 12:12:16 PM

what the hell does a campus cop have a gun for?

10/8/2012 12:12:59 PM

^^

all campus police have guns, theyre police

10/8/2012 12:13:58 PM

NCSU police have rocket pods mounted to their segways in case the shit REALLY goes down

10/8/2012 12:16:14 PM

Quote :

"all campus police have guns, theyre police"

eh, not always.

also, sounds like acid.

also, this is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

10/8/2012 12:36:41 PM

Here is something you can't understand, HOW I COULD JUST KILL A MAN

10/8/2012 12:37:16 PM

ok, well you can reasonably expect that a campus police officer carries a weapon

but youre right, police arent always carrying a gun

10/8/2012 12:46:28 PM

no i meant campus police aren't always real police.

10/8/2012 12:49:05 PM

couldn't they have just tasered him?

10/8/2012 12:49:26 PM

not all departments issue tasers. in fact, some towns/departments ban their use since their "non-lethal force" isn't always "non-lethal". there have been many controversies of tasers because of serious injury or death. Seems some people don't like the odds of surviving a taser vs a firearm, so in an ingenious move, they ban those deadly tasers.



[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 12:57 PM. Reason : could be one reason why; another could be the cop's judgement of imminent fear.]

10/8/2012 12:50:08 PM

he asked them to not tase him, bro

10/8/2012 12:50:10 PM

Agree with BHS here, no tellin if that cop was about to get jacked up by a wrestler out of his mind. I feel like he should have attempted a taser first though, maybe he did?

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 12:57 PM. Reason : whoops missed all the teaser talk]

10/8/2012 12:56:38 PM

Yes its the cops fault that this idiot got high.

[Edited on October 8, 2012 at 1:00 PM. Reason : s]

10/8/2012 12:58:24 PM

Im sure theres an Auburn fan that got a little comfort in reading this story after the year theyve been having

10/8/2012 1:07:03 PM

The sad thing is you're very likely correct

10/8/2012 1:55:26 PM

i heard he had a playstation controller in his hand

10/8/2012 1:56:34 PM

Quote :

"Yes its the cops fault that this idiot got high."

so getting high is punishable by death now?

10/8/2012 1:59:39 PM

Quote :

"Im sure theres an Auburn fan that got a little comfort in reading this story after the year theyve been having"

South Alabama, not the Tide.

10/8/2012 2:06:40 PM

gotcha

10/8/2012 2:11:34 PM

What was that officer doing with a firearm?! Don't they know school campuses are gun free zones!!!1

10/8/2012 5:51:57 PM

Since when did they outlaw firearms

10/8/2012 5:58:23 PM

Quote :

"couldn't they have just tasered him?"

I love the hypocrisy. If he had been tasered and died, this would be in the taser death thread, and everyone would be screaming brutality.

10/8/2012 11:22:18 PM

couldnt he have just rolled out the mat, thrown on his headgear, and wrestled the guy in honest competition?!

10/8/2012 11:28:24 PM

What the hell is it with wrestlers and swimmers always wanting to be naked and so touchy with dudes.

This is why my kids are only allowed to play real sports the people in the alternate ones always turn out so weird

10/9/2012 1:42:31 AM

thought they were issued batons? Also, shoot him in the leg... not the chest. Or better yet, go back inside where its safe. Call in back up, use a water cannon...

10/9/2012 1:46:06 AM

real sports where sweaty men don't grab each other

like football

10/9/2012 1:46:11 AM

Quote :

" thought they were issued batons? Also, shoot him in the leg... not the chest. Or better yet, go back inside where its safe. Call in back up, use a water cannon..."

You can't be serious.

10/9/2012 8:53:41 AM

Or, get this, what if the cop asked for help from another cop? Wasn't this at a fucking police station?

10/9/2012 9:01:34 AM

Quote :

"I love the hypocrisy. If he had been tasered and died, this would be in the taser death thread, and everyone would be screaming brutality."

DING DING DING!!!

Quote :

"thought they were issued batons? Also, shoot him in the leg... not the chest. Or better yet, go back inside where its safe. Call in back up, use a water cannon..."

if you're not shooting center of mass, then you shouldn't be shooting at all.

10/9/2012 9:06:55 AM

Quote :

"I love the hypocrisy. If he had been tasered and died, this would be in the taser death thread, and everyone would be screaming brutality."

Tasering is only an issue when its used for compliance, how many more deaths do we need before that is clear? It should only be used in instances when a gun would probably be justified but this gives them a less-lethal option. If the story is true as it was described, this seems like a great example of when a taser is a good option.

Tasering someone in a wheelchair because they are being an asshole is not warranted, tasering someone because they are talking back while being arrested should not be an option, tasering someone because they maybe are not giving the cop their arm fast enough when they already have 5 cops on top of them should not be an option.

If its not a situation that allows a cop to shoot someone, it shouldn't be a situation that allows them to use a taser.

(google is undecided if tasering or tazing is more correct)

10/9/2012 9:09:42 AM

Quote :

"couldnt he have just rolled out the mat, thrown on his headgear, and wrestled the guy in honest competition?!"

The guy was naked. You get to wrestlin' around and sooner or later dude's just is going to get in or near your face. I'm with the taser crowd on this one.

10/9/2012 9:10:04 AM

^^if the situation is bad enough to warrant deadly force, then deadly force should be used.

Was this such a situation? Doesn't sound like it... but don't pretend that deadly-force situations can be just as easily solved with a "non-deadly force" reaction.

10/9/2012 9:19:12 AM

But how about we wait and see what the details are before acting like we know what the situation was?

10/9/2012 9:33:54 AM

Quote :

"^^if the situation is bad enough to warrant deadly force, then deadly force should be used. Was this such a situation? Doesn't sound like it... but don't pretend that deadly-force situations can be just as easily solved with a "non-deadly force" reaction. "

If it's not bad enough to warrant deadly force then that means that they are not in serious danger so a taser should not be used. A taser needs to be considered deadly force, its less lethal than a gun but can still be lethal and should only be used in situations where that is warranted.

The stories people get mad about taser use are those where it is used as a compliance device.

We only have one side of this story, but if the guy was charging and threatening the cop than deadly force may have been warranted so the use of a taser would have offered another less-lethal (not non-lethal) alternative.

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2012 9:50:21 AM

Quote :

"Tasering is only an issue when its used for compliance, how many more deaths do we need before that is clear? It should only be used in instances when a gun would probably be justified but this gives them a less-lethal option. If the story is true as it was described, this seems like a great example of when a taser is a good option. Tasering someone in a wheelchair because they are being an asshole is not warranted, tasering someone because they are talking back while being arrested should not be an option, tasering someone because they maybe are not giving the cop their arm fast enough when they already have 5 cops on top of them should not be an option. "

This generally sums up my feelings on taser use. I agree that it would have been a far better choice if available than shooting him.

10/9/2012 10:00:31 AM

Somewhat agree; however, I think the window for taser use is very, very small. And many of the stories/controversies around tasers do stem around whether or not it was appropriate; however, many were also about serious injury/death from taser use (and some of those were hence turned into the was it appropriate debate).

If a situation warrants deadly force, then you don't want to mess around with maybe stopping someone with a taser. There are many examples of drugged attackers not being affected by tasers and sometimes there's not a lot of time to determine the mental state of an attacker. If it's just someone being belligerent, uncooperative, on the attack, and posing a serious threat, then maybe a taser could be used; however, if that person is on PCP, then a taser may very well be ineffective. I don't know how to properly describe these situations and what is the appropriate response, because it is such a grey area, difficult to put a hard rule on, and quite frankly, if you haven't been in the situation, you can't really speak to the difficulty in determining mental state, threat level, the decision to use force, and what type of force to use.

I think we need a lot more information on this case to see which action would have been more appropriate and even with that information, it may not be abundantly clear to those of us outside of the situation (and not using your 20/20 hindsight... must think of this in-process). And we still don't know if a taser was an option. As for the argument of why not bring in other cops, well we don't have enough information yet (were there other cops around? did the situation quickly escalate? etc.). As for retreating back into the station, in this type of situation, cops do have the right to make a call about the safety of the public in regards to an individual's actions. If this cop thought this guy may go away but attack others, then he was in his right to stop the attacker.

Ideally, yes, it would be better for police to use less-lethal force in some situations; however, that's easier said than done in the heat of the moment.

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 10:11 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2012 10:06:16 AM

What was the race of the student and the cop. This will determine how much I care about this story.

10/9/2012 10:06:56 AM

Can anyone find out how many people have been killed by police gunfire? How does it compare to 530 deaths from tasers from 2001 to 2012? I can only find total gun related deaths and not those by police.

10/9/2012 10:20:07 AM

just asking, even though its like 2 in the morning, shouldn't there be more than 1 cop at a station on campus?

But the real question is, where the fuck was the naked dude's friends at?

10/9/2012 10:20:34 AM

^^you'd also need to break those numbers down and come up with subjective ways of justifying each case.

^lol. I don't imagine there being a lot of police on duty at night on campus, though I could be wrong; and I don't think they'd be sitting around the station all night. I forget how many are on duty at NCSU, but it's not many and they're mostly making rounds, not chilling at the station. I went by the NCSU station a few times when I was a student, one time there was no cop there (some lady had to call a cop in), other times, I saw only 1-2 cops (now, there could have been more elsewhere in the station).

[Edited on October 9, 2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2012 10:38:03 AM

the most likely explanation is that this cop is a pussy and got unnecessarily scared

fuck the police

10/9/2012 10:39:57 AM

^^ I mean it looks like a decent sized school with a real campus police force like ours. Just would have figured at least two cops would be on duty at the station; maybe not out in front, but doing paper work and whatever have you. Could be wrong, but begs the question.

Still, in the heat of the moment, I still think the cop had the right even though the outcome was deadly. We could all play the 'what if' game, but shit happens and what needs to be answered is how that situation got out of control in the first place.

10/9/2012 10:53:05 AM

Quote :

"if you're not shooting center of mass upper thoracic cavity, then you shouldn't be shooting at all."

Center mass would be your stomach, you want to disable the engine room.

As far as other cops being there, its just luck of the draw. Some departments have 200 officers working the street, others have 2. I've been to plenty of tense calls by myself because they way they came in were innocent or "been there done that before." At a department like NCSU, you might have one officer in the central part of campus, another on Centennial, another over by the Vet, just depends. Thing rapidly evolve so what might seem like, "oh just another streaker" turns into "you have the right to remain silent*."

*As in the officer gets read his Miranda rights. Anytime you are involved in a shooting, its a criminal investigation.

I was involved in a very similar situation to this a little over a year ago /tease.

10/9/2012 11:15:39 AM

Quote :

"Can anyone find out how many people have been killed by police gunfire? How does it compare to 530 deaths from tasers from 2001 to 2012? I can only find total gun related deaths and not those by police."

No.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/142-dead-and-rising/national-data-on-shootings-by-police-not-collected-134256308.html

Quote :

"National data on shootings by police not collected Looking for the number of burglaries last year in Devils Lake, N.D.? How about the increase in property crimes in Caribou, Maine? The answers (34 and 23 percent, respectively) are readily available from the FBI. Want detailed information on how many people were shot by police in the United States last year? That's not so easy to find. The nation's leading law enforcement agency collects vast amounts of information on crime nationwide, but missing from this clearinghouse are statistics on where, how often, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. In fact, no one anywhere comprehensively tracks the most significant act police can do in the line of duty: take a life. "We don't have a mandate to do that," said William Carr, an FBI spokesman in Washington, D.C. "It would take a request from Congress for us to collect that data." Congress, it seems, hasn't asked. The FBI, which has the power to conduct civil rights investigations related to any questionable use of deadly force by any law enforcement agency, has produced at least one report analyzing shootings over several years by its own agents. In addition, the agency tracks the total annual number of "justifiable homicides," acts it defines as "the killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty," but that only covers people shot while committing a serious crime and the data aren't broken down by agency. In 2010, that number was 387, down from 414 the year before."

It goes on to quote 384 people shot by police in 2010 that fit a very narrow criteria. In other words, that's not the right number, the real number you're looking for is much higher and deliberately not kept.

BJS offers some numbers, but...

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=379

Quote :

"Homicides by law enforcement officers made up 55% (1,095) of all deaths during arrests by State and local agencies. Eleven homicides were committed by other persons present at the scene."

That 1,095 number is from 2003-2005 is congruent with the rate in 2010 (suspiciously consistent in fact), which as we know, is under limited circumstances. This stat seems awfully misleading, since the definition of "justifiable homicide" seems way more narrow than people killed during arrest. I would hate to even ask the question "do police officially kill people not under arrest?"

But I guess if you were looking for a comparison to taser deaths, even the shooting lower bound easily surpasses it. To be perfectly objective though, you have to question the validity of the number of taser deaths.

10/9/2012 11:35:38 AM

Quote :

" BigMan157 ? of Threads 95612 Posts user info edit post NCSU police have rocket pods mounted to their segways in case the shit REALLY goes down 10/8/2012 12:16:14 PM "

Reminds me of...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IbPE8l1Qqg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

10/9/2012 11:37:56 AM

Nobody has said "This is why we don't run around Police Stations naked"

It's your free will to do it, but you also have to suffer the consequences.

10/9/2012 1:36:27 PM