Way to go, unions

11/16/2012 8:36:20 AM

Goodnight, sweet prince.

11/16/2012 8:42:55 AM

^Fuck you beat me.

11/16/2012 8:47:32 AM

I.
Hate.
Unions.

11/16/2012 8:51:49 AM

WE WANT OUR PAY BACK.

We can't afford it, we're about to go out of business.

WE WANT OUR PAY BACK.

Welp, hope you find another job.

WE WANT OUR PAY BACK.

::crickets::

WE WANT OUR PAY BACK.

11/16/2012 8:52:46 AM

This company has been doomed for awhile. Blaming unions is sillyyyy

11/16/2012 8:58:01 AM

So which is it?

Execs cut salaries by 8% so they can get a fat bonus.
Workers have to give up pensions and go from $50/hour to $46... for making twinkies.

11/16/2012 8:59:01 AM

unions are good, in theory...just like homeowners associations are

they're excellent when they do what they're supposed to in a reasonable manner...and they're abhorrent when they overstep

not really commenting on this particular situation, just noting that hating unions because they're unions is stupid

[Edited on November 16, 2012 at 9:02 AM. Reason : grammar]

11/16/2012 9:01:51 AM

$46/hr is fucking steep

11/16/2012 9:05:39 AM

I made up that figure trying to play both extremes, like how some places with unions have exorbitant compensation for what amounts to unskilled labor.

11/16/2012 9:08:16 AM

if line workers at hostess were really pulling in 100k before overtime, i would shoot myself in the face

11/16/2012 9:09:24 AM

they weren't, so save your bullet

11/16/2012 9:09:50 AM

That looks like a shitty generic swiss cake roll. I'd still crush it.

11/16/2012 9:11:12 AM

corn syrup is corn syrup

11/16/2012 9:14:11 AM

Unions were a good thing in the industrial revolution. Today, for the most part, they drive up prices and cut services provided. When you see a group of assholes on their union mandated 30min smoke break every other hour, you begin to hate unions.

I'm sure they help in areas I don't see, but what I see on a daily basis are only negative interactions. That's why I'm bitter about unions.

11/16/2012 9:14:26 AM

18,500 jobs now toast

average pay was $17/hr

11/16/2012 9:16:21 AM

^^ right...and i definitely agree that they can overstep and essentially strong-arm employers into reducing efficiency

but they also keep employers from walking over employees because they can simply hire more unskilled labor for $cheap

it's a balancing act

11/16/2012 9:19:13 AM

Quote :

""The industry has overcapacity. We're overcapacity. Our rivals are overcapacity," said Rayburn in an interview on CNBC. Asked if the shutdown decision could be reversed if the Bakers' union agreed to immediately return to work, he responded, "Too late." "

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

11/16/2012 9:19:48 AM

http://www.hostessbrands.com/


= 404 error...immediate PWN is immediate

11/16/2012 9:34:50 AM

There is no reason for any union to exist in 2012.

11/16/2012 9:42:34 AM

Does it always have to be one group that's "the bad guy" in a situation like this?

And scanning through the commentary in this thread it's funny how the blame is attributed conveniently along political party lines.

conservatives blaming unions
liberals blaming the evil executives

And given that the sound bytes and twitter headlines don't delve deeper, it's no surprise that folks aren't talking about the other players involved.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

Quote :

"But in truth there are no black hats or white knights in this tale. It's about shades of gray, where obstinacy, miscalculation, and lousy luck connived to create corporate catastrophe. Almost none of the parties involved would speak on the record. Still, it's clear from court documents and background interviews with a range of sources that practically nobody involved can shoot straight: The Teamsters remain stuck in a time warp, unwilling to sufficiently adapt in a competitive marketplace. The PE firm failed to turn Hostess around after taking it over. The hedgies can't see beyond their internal rates of return. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera."

BTW even though this article is 4 months old, it might as well have been written yesterday. All you need to do is add the last paragraph about the last strike leading to the final death knell of the company.

11/16/2012 9:52:32 AM

When living in NYC for a few years I grew to loathe unions.

Trade unions I dealt with mandated that their workers worked from 7-330. But often on certain job sites work wasn't allowed during those hours. Instead it would be something like 10-6. So the workers would show up at 7, sit around for a few hours then work. And at 330 they would leave.

Pipefitting workers weren't allowed to use socket wrenches because they were too efficient. Sheet metal shops weren't allowed to produce ductwork sections longer than 3-4 feet because it took away work from the workers (would attach the sections together).

And you wonder why it costs a fortune to build anything in the city...

11/16/2012 9:53:47 AM

Quote :

"and they're abhorrent when they overstep"

...and they both routinely (even typically?) overstep.

11/16/2012 9:57:34 AM

Quote :

"This company has been doomed for awhile. Blaming unions is sillyyyy"

Them execs are just gonna use the bankruptcy to cut off the unions and sell the company back to themselves...twankies will be back

11/16/2012 9:57:38 AM

^^^Liberals don't give a shit about anything you just said.

They think this is 1906 and these people are in danger of falling into sausage-making machines.

[Edited on November 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM. Reason : -]

11/16/2012 9:59:24 AM

Quote :

"and they both routinely (even typically?) overstep."

absolutely...but that makes the application "bad", not the institution

i'm not defending anyone here...as noted, the company's been in trouble for a while and they're just taking one last shot at the union

i don't care, in any case...i don't eat anything made my hostess so i won't miss them when they're gone...and even if i did, there are plenty of competitors making the same shitty "food"

11/16/2012 10:22:33 AM

Quote :

"When living in NYC for a few years I grew to loathe unions. Trade unions I dealt with mandated that their workers worked from 7-330. But often on certain job sites work wasn't allowed during those hours. Instead it would be something like 10-6. So the workers would show up at 7, sit around for a few hours then work. And at 330 they would leave. Pipefitting workers weren't allowed to use socket wrenches because they were too efficient. Sheet metal shops weren't allowed to produce ductwork sections longer than 3-4 feet because it took away work from the workers (would attach the sections together). And you wonder why it costs a fortune to build anything in the city..."

This is the shit that gives unions a bad name.

I've worked horrible places that needed a union.

11/16/2012 10:26:14 AM

Whats sad is that most of the people in Union will not be able to find another good job since they are too old or didn't obtain any highly marketable skills. The people are fucking stupid, and completely forwent the very first rule of working and thats to NEVER quit a job without having another one.

11/16/2012 10:34:48 AM

Quote :

"The people are fucking stupid, and completely forwent the very first rule of working and thats to NEVER quit a job without having another one."

except that hostess was doomed, anyway

11/16/2012 10:36:50 AM

Quote :

"Whats sad is that most of the people in Union will not be able to find another good job since they are too old or didn't obtain any highly marketable skills."

How is this sad? Nothing is stopping anyone from obtaining new skills or learning things.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/16/2012 10:37:14 AM

Quote :

"And scanning through the commentary in this thread it's funny how the blame is attributed conveniently along political party lines. conservatives blaming unions liberals blaming the evil executives"

I'm extremely liberal, I made this thread blaming unions

(on a more serious note, of course it wasn't only the unions)

11/16/2012 10:55:14 AM

lol that the folks making Twinkies call themselves "bakers"

11/16/2012 11:11:21 AM

Quote :

"except that hostess was doomed, anyway"

Not really... They were a 2.5 Billion dollar company and if they could have controlled their costs. It would have only taken them maybe 5-10 years max to get out of the 860 million dollar debt they were in, sooner if they restructured faster than their first time around with Chapter 11. They really needed to cut their labor force, but doing that would have been more costly than just keeping them on in the short run.

11/16/2012 11:26:59 AM

Quote :

"They really needed to cut their labor force, but doing that would have been more costly than just keeping them on in the short run."

when what you need to do to survive costs you more money than you can afford, i consider that "doomed"

the were poorly managed and didn't fix it...they might have struggled on for another couple of years, but they wouldn't have lasted much longer

11/16/2012 11:43:58 AM

You should be a CEO already.

11/16/2012 11:46:49 AM

11/16/2012 11:47:53 AM

I mean, you are the only here that knows that they are talking 'bout.

11/16/2012 11:48:36 AM

The administration needs to step in to keep the junk food industry afloat. We can't just let these jobs die, can we?

11/16/2012 11:53:42 AM

i'm sorry your reading comprehension skills aren't up to a 3rd grade level, yet

come back when you have a clue...because implying that all these people "quit" their jobs without having another one lined up and that as a result, they had this coming just make you seem dumb

11/16/2012 11:53:52 AM

quag...shut the fuck up for a sec

dude just paid you a compliment

11/16/2012 11:55:02 AM

and another:

11/16/2012 11:55:51 AM

^^lolwut

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

11/16/2012 11:56:16 AM

^^Haha man you are so predictable and easy to pwnt. You're a straight bitch lol.

[Edited on November 16, 2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason : /]

11/16/2012 11:56:57 AM

Quote :

"Haha man you are so predictable and easy to pwnt."

ah, so you made yourself seem stupid in order to pwn me? yes, you're clearly the "winner"

11/16/2012 11:58:57 AM

haha. wow.

11/16/2012 12:00:03 PM

Wow, you really are mad HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

11/16/2012 12:00:08 PM

I'M SO MAD

i like how that's the best you have to offer...certainly you can't fall back on your opinions, as they're clearly derived from a total inability to comprehend simple concepts

move along, kid, the adults are having a discussion

11/16/2012 12:02:09 PM

Oh, OK. Maybe you should buy Hostess and show us your Executive skills.

11/16/2012 12:03:47 PM

What business does quagmire own?

11/16/2012 12:04:10 PM

I think he manages his fish tank at home, and brokers deals on his neighbor's dog food, so yeah... clearly Executive decisions.

11/16/2012 12:05:50 PM