http://www.wral.com/unc-student-who-says-she-was-raped-facing-honor-code-violation/12150684/

Anyone seen this? I don't think she was raped.

3/1/2013 3:07:27 PM

Why is the student-run honor court handling sexual assault cases?<]

3/1/2013 3:15:07 PM

Granted I'm making a lot of guesses here, but the way I see that it probably happened is that falsely reporting a criminal rape can come with jail time, filing a false police report can be tried in civil court, falsely accusing someone in honor court could, at worst, get you expelled. She's been really careful to not state his name while pointing at him any other way availible, so I imagine she knew that and knows about slander as well.

3/1/2013 3:20:28 PM

chit chat thread wasn't intelligent enough?

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=635078&page=1

Quote :

"Anyone seen this? I don't think she was raped."

Mostly irrelevant to the present topic, but it is kind of crazy that's the first thing that came to your mind.

[Edited on March 1, 2013 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ]

3/1/2013 3:29:39 PM

Quote :

"Why is the student-run honor court handling sexual assault cases?<]"

that's what i don't understand, just forward the complaint to law enforcement

3/1/2013 3:32:01 PM

^^I don't browse CC, only usually go on TWW during slow days at work now and CC is decidedly NSFW. And it wasn't the first thing that came to my mind, the first thing was "that is terrible" after reading an article that left out a good deal of "alleged"s. This is my thought after reading into it quite a bit.

3/1/2013 3:38:13 PM

Quote :

" but it is kind of crazy that's the first thing that came to your mind."

Agreed. What's the reasoning for this assessment? Just going by the 'ol gut???

3/1/2013 3:40:54 PM

The reporting is kind of missing the big gaping detail that the honor court suspended her ex because of her complaint.

If the issue had been handed over to law enforcement she would have been able to secure a restraining order but almost certainly no chance for a conviction. Everyone agrees the honor court was operating completely outside their legal mandate. When you put that fact together with the fact that her ex lost time/money in his education, it's really not surprising that he filed a counter-complaint.

I have no reason to think that she is lying about rape, but I have no reason to expect that the rape(s) left any concrete evidence. If you don't intentionally gather evidence and go to the police quickly you have no chance in court.

3/1/2013 3:41:37 PM

I have no idea if she's lying or not.

But, as others have said the only correct way for the student honor court to handle this is to refer it to the police. This is way the fuck above their capability.

3/1/2013 3:56:30 PM

Quote :

"that's what i don't understand, just forward the complaint to law enforcement"

That's part of the problem that they are beginning to uncover. That UNC was under reporting the number of sexual assault cases reported on campus. I assume the way they are doing this is trying to handle things "in house". That way there is no police report and UNC can keep their "reported" numbers low

3/1/2013 4:09:39 PM

^

Bingo. They are threatening her because she is about to pull the rug out from under this operation with all of this publicity. Obviously their actions are only making it worse on themselves.

3/1/2013 4:38:12 PM

How did everyone else in the session not start laughing when the "judge" asked for forensic evidence?

3/1/2013 4:42:02 PM

Quote :

"Bingo. They are threatening her because she is about to pull the rug out from under this operation with all of this publicity. Obviously their actions are only making it worse on themselves."

I do wonder how this fits in with the narrative of the case. She went public at some point, and I think it was after her ex returned to campus and he took against her. Then the problem was that by going public she made an enemy out of the university itself. It was only after the university retaliated that it got wider attention.

3/1/2013 4:49:13 PM

^ She went public after she and several other women filed a federal complaint against UNC for it's violations handling sexual assualt.

Her expulsion is will be determined whether she violated the honor code by talking publicly about the sexual assault. She didn't have to name her accuser for him to file the complaint, she also didn't have to contact him.

Here are the other articles on this issue:

College Rape Survivor Faces Potential Expulsion For ‘Intimidating’ Her Rapist
http://jezebel.com/5986693/college-rape-survivor-faces-potential-expulsion-for-intimidating-her-rapist

Student who spoke out on UNC conduct is now accused
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/26/2709067/unc-student-who-spoke-out-about.html
There's a good timeline of events in the side column of this article, as well as a copy of the complaint Landen received and the university's response.

Landen Gambill says Honor Court charge is retaliatory
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/02/sexual-assault-victim-charged

UNC sexual assault victims speak up about imperfect system
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2012/12/victims-speak-up-on-assault

[Edited on March 1, 2013 at 6:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/1/2013 6:11:26 PM

Quote :

"Her expulsion is will be determined whether she violated the honor code by talking publicly about the sexual assault."

Not sure if serious...

Quote :

"“I’ve never said his name. This isn’t about him,” Gambill, a women’s studies and philosophy major, said Monday in an interview. “This is clearly retaliation from the university about me filing the (Office for Civil Rights) complaint and about me speaking out.”"

And by the way, man you are terrible at facts:

Quote :

"^ She went public after she and several other women filed a federal complaint against UNC for it's violations handling sexual assualt."

this is when she filed:

Quote :

"Jan. 16, 2013: Gambill joined two students, a former student and a former administrator to file a complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights."

this is a school newspaper article:
http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2012/12/victims-speak-up-on-assault
Updated: 12/05/12 1:48am

I mean holy shit, you are so full of bull shit. Do you just make things up and then pretend that no one else has the facts right?

3/1/2013 7:02:28 PM

Shit like this is just more of school's doing what they shouldn't. Students in college are adults (well, about 99% of them are over 18, very few start as 17 year old freshmen) and their parents shouldn't be getting their grade information or disciplinary information. Colleges aren't mommy and daddy and they aren't the criminal justice system.

Now, part of this is on the girl for not going to the police. If you were attacked or raped you report it to the police. If you report it to campus police and they tell you that it's going through the honor court you tell them no, this is a criminal matter, I'm going to the police.

I hope she wins her suit.

3/1/2013 7:11:01 PM

She could still go to the police, if she were raped. She could go if she wasn't raped, but then she could be punished for falsely accusing someone.

3/1/2013 7:35:02 PM

Yeah, but that almost never happens.

I don't have enough information to make a judgment, but I do find it a bit fishy. I also think it's horseshit that the media automatically assumes that her accusations are true. It's only a matter of time before somebody publishes this guy's name and ruins his life.

3/1/2013 7:46:19 PM

Quote :

"I mean holy shit, you are so full of bull shit. Do you just make things up and then pretend that no one else has the facts right?"

Is this really called for? I thought you had some good points until reading that and now I just think you're trolling me and trying to start are pissing match.

As for when she "went public." Yes she was interviewed for the story that ran in December and it entered the public knowledge that she was a victim. I overlooked this when I made my comment. I was assuming the day she went public was the day she scheduled a public news conference on campus, which was Jan 30, 2 weeks after she filed the complaint and 2 weeks before the school slapped her with the honor code violation.

The differences are the December article wasn't in her control, she was merely interviewed by the school newspaper. The Press Conference was her (successful) attempt to take this issue to several other media outlets and control the message that's getting out there. If the school was going to retaliate against her, this would be the point I'd assume she made enemies with the University.

As for:

Quote :

"Her expulsion is will be determined whether she violated the honor code by talking publicly about the sexual assault. She didn't have to name her accuser for him to file the complaint, she also didn't have to contact him."

I had a 2 year old on my lap slamming the keyboard while I was trying to change Thomas the Train for him. I had a valid point I was trying to make at the time but was lost between the distractions and him pounding on my keyboard and deleting sentence after sentence. My bad.

3/1/2013 8:30:09 PM

Quote :

"Her expulsion is will be determined whether she violated the honor code by talking publicly about the sexual assault. She didn't have to name her accuser for him to file the complaint, she also didn't have to contact him"

The Honor Court doesn't have the authority to expel anyone, they're just students. They can recommend expulsion to the administration and do you think Chapel Hill is that fucking stupid to expel an alleged rape victim?

3/2/2013 9:10:07 AM

^^ For some reason, I've been super duper mean on TWW lately. I'm sorry about that.

Everyone here has good points. Gold star today.

3/2/2013 10:20:52 AM

Quote :

"The student was found not guilty, and Gambill says she feels like the new charge is in retaliation by the university for speaking out."

So it sounds like the person was found not guilty ("The student was found not guilty, and Gambill says she feels like the new charge is in retaliation by the university for speaking out"), but I don't know if that was by "The Honor Court" or law enforcement. I certainly hope it was the latter.

Provided that the guy was cleared of the charges and he maintains his innocence, I'd say he has a right to be pissed if she is giving speeches about how he raped/sexually assaulted her. If he actually did rape/sexually assault her, then she is completely within her bounds. It doesn't seem like anyone knows the truth here. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she filed a police report at the time of the alleged crime, so that makes things a lot harder.

3/2/2013 10:29:21 AM

If she was raped, she is doing her gender a disservice by not going to the police right now to keep a sexual predator from preying on another innocent woman. Of course if she wasn't raped and just wants some spotlight, she should do exactly what she is doing now.

3/2/2013 12:32:25 PM

Quote :

"Provided that the guy was cleared of the charges and he maintains his innocence, I'd say he has a right to be pissed if she is giving speeches about how he raped/sexually assaulted her."

Everyone keeps leaving out one very important detail:

Quote :

" Spring semester 2012: Gambill’s ex-boyfriend is suspended from campus. It’s not clear why he was suspended before the honor court hearing. Honor court proceedings are typically private. May 2012: Honor court hearing, which results in a not guilty finding for Gambill’s ex-boyfriend."

Not only was her ex suspended, but he was suspended before they even held a hearing. On top of that, they even found him not guilty.

Her ex almost certainly has standing to sue UNC-CH. Similar suits have won. Obviously, there's a lot more to the series of events than what we know, but if this information is accurate, he could sue them, and he might be able to sue Gambill.

Now could Gambill sue UNC-CH? Probably not. I think she's already taping pretty much all the relevant resources. She's not going to the cops because it wouldn't help her.

3/2/2013 5:22:39 PM

How do we know that she didn't report the rape to someone in the university expecting that it would be referred to police, and then find her case referred to the joke "honor" court?

Seems to me that is a much more likely scenario.

Also, this mindset that "she may not have even been raped" is completely over the top, guys. She filed a federal complaint. I don't care who it is, there is not a pathological liar on the planet ballsy enough to take a false allegation all the way to the feds.

3/3/2013 9:29:39 AM

so why has she still not reported to police?

3/3/2013 9:44:26 AM

havent read this thread, but she is gonna make a lot of money suing them if she gets expelled for this

3/3/2013 11:04:30 AM

Quote :

"How do we know that she didn't report the rape to someone in the university expecting that it would be referred to police, and then find her case referred to the joke "honor" court?"

She said that they discouraged her going to the police. She would get a lot more mileage with your version because there is no incentive to downplay the incompetence of the university. Thus, we conclude that wasn't misled. She knew it wasn't reported to the police, and she went along with it.

Quote :

"Also, this mindset that "she may not have even been raped" is completely over the top, guys."

I completely agree. The important point is that this was relationship rape, and that doesn't make it any less bad, but it probably means there's no evidence. If your ex raped you half a year ago you don't have a prayer's chance of proving anything. There's no expectation that you could.

Additionally, speaking to people about your rape necessarily "names" the perpetrator because all your friends know who you were dating at that time. I still think she deserves a community where she can speak about it, and she has a coping process to go through. However, when the Jezebel blog is a part of this "community" you are functionally naming the perpetrator in national media.

I honestly dislike most applications of libel laws. You should be able to accuse anyone of anything in the media. Trustworthiness should be left to the free marketplace of ideas. The ultimate problem is the conflict between a bad set of values in our legal system, and a anti-rape culture that doesn't see anything wrong with unprovable claims.

3/3/2013 12:41:41 PM

so the university mislead her before, who is preventing her from going to the police now?

3/3/2013 12:43:54 PM

game theory: if she would benefit from going to the police she already would have.

Thus we conclude that she doesn't have anything to gain from going to the police.

3/3/2013 3:39:47 PM

3/4/2013 11:20:00 PM

We back.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2013/03/landen-gambills-ex-unc-forced-me-out

Looks like a separate committee (Emergency Evaluation & Action Committee) was the one that suspended him. That committee was headed by Melinda Manning, the same person who was in charge of reporting sexual assaults, and claims the University forced her to underreport claims. So to quote a comment from the article:

Quote :

"The woman that is claiming UNC has violated victims' rights was the chairwoman of a committee that violated the due process rights of the accused?"

3/5/2013 12:28:57 PM

Quote :

"“I’ve been told that Ms. Gambill was read pertinent portions of his medical evaluation and was able to respond to them prior to the trial,” Gresham said. “A complete violation of my client’s rights.”"

i'd sue anyone i could if i were in that situation, fuck that

3/5/2013 12:37:58 PM

Yes, it really looks like the University took every opportunity they could to fuck this situation up.

One question I have, could this case have been the final nail in the coffin for Manning? Total conspiracy theory/guess but maybe Manning was over-advocating for Gambill and trying to grind this axe against the accused guy/perp. He is found innocent and she flips shit. Was he found innocent because the University wanted it underreported to keep their figures low, or was he found innocent and she got pissed because she "knew" he was?

I personally have a big problem with this one person wielding so much power between different sides. She's helping out Gambill while at the same time seeming to hinder the guy from coming back. I don't see why she should be heading both committees, and I hope that has been separated out now that she is gone.

3/5/2013 12:49:16 PM

^^^ my god that was a devastating article. Ironically, Gambill has given her ex staggering legal leverage.

3/5/2013 1:06:31 PM

Wow. I don't know if I can ever recall where a judicial process has worked against both the accused and the accuser. At this point the only crime that can be proven is UNC's violation of rights of both individuals.

I'm holding out to find out now if this is just a big con. Gambil and her Ex see a broken system, enter it, find ways to get screwed over, make it public, hire lawyers and sue the school for a double payday.

3/5/2013 3:28:15 PM

Bitch is lying.

If she was really a victim she would have gone to police.

3/6/2013 8:28:06 AM

Bitch is lying.

If she was really a victim she would have gone to police.

3/6/2013 8:28:06 AM

Lawyer: UNC student making life difficult for accused attacker
http://www.wral.com/lawyer-unc-student-making-life-difficult-for-accused-attacker/12186136/

for all you posting she should go to the police, she's considering it:

Quote :

"Gambill, who couldn't be reached Tuesday for comment, has said the honor code violations are the university's way of retaliating against her for speaking out. Students have rallied behind her in recent days, calling on UNC-Chapel Hill to adopt new policies for handling sex assault cases, expand resources for alleged victims and require more training of administrators. She said she still might file criminal charges but has held off because she felt victimized by the campus process."

The ex was right to lawyer up. It at least proves he's not a complete idiot.

3/6/2013 8:43:03 AM

UNC is concerned about UNC and nothing else. Accusations of sexual assault are events to be dealt with swiftly and quietly and those who get screwed (no pun intended) needs to just shut the hell up about it. UNC has decreed this man guilty and in need of psychological evaluation so obviously that is the perfect decision and final. The woman should be lucky to be at such a wonderful place like UNC so obviously she just needs to pipe down about the whole "rape" thing.

3/6/2013 8:51:27 AM

Quote :

"Bitch is lying. If she was really a victim she would have gone to police."

She should have gone to the police, but in order to get any good evidence you need to be wearing the same clothes, you need to have not showered, etc so they can test for DNA. So, put yourself in her shoes. You just got your b-hole ravaged by force and are appropriately traumatized. You now need to go to the police and have someone comb through your ass hair for the rapists' pubes.

Yes, I know. If something extremely traumatic and disturbing happened to you, you'd be perfectly rational and you would do everything right, but surely you understand how someone might not necessarily take the proper action in the extremely short window of opportunity that exists in these cases.

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 10:11 AM. Reason : ]

3/6/2013 10:10:56 AM

Quote :

"Yes, I know. If something extremely traumatic and disturbing happened to you, you'd be perfectly rational and you would do everything right, but surely you understand how someone might not necessarily take the proper action in the extremely short window of opportunity that exists in these cases."

I'd imagine that considering she doesn't live with the guy, depend on him for anything, or is forced to come in contact with him, she would probably get away from him after the first time it happened. But I suppose for whatever reason that could have not happened. But I certainly wouldn't just brush it off, not go to the police, and completely let the guy get away with it and give him the oppurtunity to do it to someone else.

3/6/2013 10:26:47 AM

Quote :

"If something extremely traumatic and disturbing happened to you, you'd be perfectly rational and you would do everything right"

Totally. Clears the head right up - great for the night before an exam. That's basically what allowed me to date this overachieving double-major chick for a couple years.

3/6/2013 10:27:38 AM

^^ Your logic is unrelated to this case.

She openly claims that she was raped multiple times while in the relationship. Not only did she let the critical window of time pass, and not only did she not report it to the police (promptly or not), but she didn't even break up with the guy after it happened. Going by her account, it would seem that she willingly saw him again after he raped her.

3/6/2013 10:38:42 AM

I think that logic may seem straightforward to a thread full of male non-rape victims, but it's another thing to think the victim of sexual assault would see things so black and white, especially when the abuse happens in a relationship where emotions tend to cloud things.

No matter how you look at this, there's no way to discern if she was actually raped or not. When she came to the school with this information she was either a) a mentally & emotionally disturbed liar or b) a victim of sexual assault suffering from the mental and emotional fallout of it. Either way if she failed to go to the police, the university should have.

I can't say this is a case of blame-the-victim since there's no way of knowing if this girl is a victim, or the next Mangum, but it seems like for all the wrong doings that have happened here, most of the finger pointing is at Gambil, and not the University that she trusted to handle this case fairly & the same University that failed to protect the rights of the accused.

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 2:09 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2013 2:09:25 PM

Quote :

"No matter how you look at this, there's no way to discern if she was actually raped or not."

We don't even have to descern that. She says she was raped yet she's letting the guy go free to rape someone else without impunity. We get that by simply assuming she is telling the truth.

3/6/2013 2:19:13 PM

So what are you saying? We can assume she's a rape victim, and she's to blame for not going to the police?


From the N&O article:

Quote :

"Gambill said she was dissuaded by the Dean of Students office from going to the police and pursuing an honor trial at the same time."

Why are so many people intent on placing blame on her if she was in fact a victim? The school's the one that screwed up here. You wouldn't blame a minor for failing to call the police after being molested, but you sure as hell would blame any responsible parent who failed to make the call when they found out. I don't think this should be any different. If an emotionally distraught victim of sexual assault comes to your office, your first instinct should be to contact law enforcement, not try to steer her into a student judicial system.

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2013 2:34:50 PM

I think we are all blaming the school for that terrible advice and thinking this is within their scope. Some of us are just also pointing out that she has still not gone to the police to date, now, after she has learned that the school has handled this terribly.

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 2:51 PM. Reason : .]

3/6/2013 2:51:19 PM

Quote :

"The school's the one that screwed up here."

1.) Why would it matter if she reported it to police now, versus when she reported it to the university (~4 months after breakup)
2.) Honestly, the school's process wasn't really less blaming than a court trial would be

Obviously, the court trial would have been different because she would understand that the courtroom is an oppositional environment and she would have a team of a lawyer, friends, and relatives that are supportive in private. But this is what you get for going to a vigilante court.

The school was wrong for telling her to not go to the police, and their policy reflects an admission of that error. Their policy is now "fuck it, it's going to the police" for sexual assault cases. And again, the school didn't kill her legal case because she had already waited months before going to them. Not to mention, the quote ^^ implies that the school was only advised against going to the police during the honor trial. The trial ended. After the trial ended she sat on her hands, content with the outcome that he was out of school, until he returned.

I do blame her for escalating the case by going to the media. That was wrong and if she's punished for it then I'm not going to feel very sorry for her.

Plus, she bad-mouthed the campus police too. That was given as a reason for not going to the police - that she didn't like how the police responded to her. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they are acting as police, and not employees of UNC-CH. Now, you can say that the problem is police procedures... but we do give that plenty of attention nationally.

[Edited on March 6, 2013 at 3:00 PM. Reason : ]

3/6/2013 3:00:26 PM

Quote :

"You wouldn't blame a minor for failing to call the police after being molested, but you sure as hell would blame any responsible parent who failed to make the call when they found out."

We wouldn't blame a minor because they aren't an adult. This woman is an adult.

Quote :

"If an emotionally distraught victim of sexual assault comes to your office, your first instinct should be to contact law enforcement, not try to steer her into a student judicial system."

We'll see if that's what actually happened.

3/6/2013 3:14:43 PM