http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/06/pf/taxes/internet-sales-tax-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I hate our government.

5/6/2013 7:35:11 PM

Thanks Obama

5/6/2013 7:36:19 PM

time to apply for *shudders* Delaware residence

5/6/2013 7:40:51 PM

why Delaware?

5/6/2013 7:42:17 PM

no sales tax

5/6/2013 7:42:56 PM

Why should Internet sales be exempt from sales tax?

5/6/2013 7:46:12 PM

the Internet is its own independent republic

5/6/2013 7:47:41 PM

Why shouldn't they be exempt from sales tax? Why should the government tax my check, then tax me for spending my check? Thats double taxation.

5/6/2013 7:48:08 PM

^ with dumbasses for representation.

5/6/2013 7:50:31 PM

Being against sales tax is a completely different discussion. My question would be why someone would support a sales tax for brick and mortar stores but not for online businesses.

5/6/2013 7:51:30 PM

let's look at it in the same way they tax unprepared food vs prepared food. unprepared food, which you have to cook yourself, is taxed at a much lower rate than prepared food from a restaurant. so, if I'm going to order something online, with almost no overhead involved from the retailer, why the hell should I pay the same (or any) tax as if I got off my ass and went to their store? additionally, why should I pay tax on something I order from California when I live in SC?

5/6/2013 7:55:44 PM

I do not really care about this. I think large e-tailers should be required to collect and send the tax revenue back to the states just like brick and mortar stores are.

5/6/2013 8:00:20 PM

Why the hell should I pay sales taxes to a state if they item I purchased was out of state. Taxing online purchases will not make me get off my ass and go to a store, online deals are still by far better than anything a traditional store offers. Instead of traditional stores bitching to congress about it, how about they become competitive.

^Why? why would you want to pay more taxes? I do not understand why any American would want more tax, all the state will do with more tax revenue is waste it on bullshit like a state religion.

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 8:02 PM. Reason : ..]

5/6/2013 8:00:54 PM

The tax goes to the state the item was shipped to, not the state it was shipped from.

5/6/2013 8:07:06 PM

As much as I despise him, I will borrow from Jason Lewis here. Think of what taxes (local/state) are used for. Roads, fire, police, etc. Which of those does Amazon use when you order from their distribution center in BFE, Iowa? And it wouldn't be roads because UPS or FedEx picks up that tab in the shipping costs. This is simply a money grab and to cater to box store lobbyists.

Speaking of Amazon, they have basically seen this coming for a while and give it a giant shrug as they are looking to start their own shipping which will still keep costs down compared to the brick and mortars.

5/6/2013 8:08:07 PM

More taxes will only rob the consumers, brick and mortar stores are going to die. I refuse to waste my time going into a store to pay 3x's what they charge online. This better not pass the house of I have a feeling alot of republicans will be looking for jobs in a year.

Like the government says anytime the argument of foreign aid comes up. Its only 12 billion its not enough to make a difference in the 1 trillion dollar deficit.

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 8:20 PM. Reason : ..]

5/6/2013 8:15:16 PM

Why should a brick and mortar store be required to collect the tax and Amazon not be required? Seems like a great way to create unfair competition...

Quote :

"As much as I despise him, I will borrow from Jason Lewis here. Think of what taxes (local/state) are used for. Roads, fire, police, etc. Which of those does Amazon use when you order from their distribution center in BFE, Iowa? And it wouldn't be roads because UPS or FedEx picks up that tab in the shipping costs."

This is a pretty ignorant statement. If the warehouse catches on fire, does it magically put itself out? If someone breaks into the warehouse, does the warehouse magically arrest the thief? Do the people teleport to work? Do the goods teleport themselves out of the warehouse? And then, consider the fact that Amazon got a shit ton of tax breaks to begin with just to set up shop, and I'd say they damned well ought to be paying sales tax, just like everyone else in town.

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 8:29 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2013 8:24:16 PM

The answer, or at least part of it, is two posts about yours. And from your fellow conservative no less.

5/6/2013 8:25:59 PM

This might not be an issue if the courts find that imposing a state sales tax on a remote foreign business violates due process. Judging from the PACT Act cases in DC, Pennsylvania, and New York, it's definitely a possibility.

Also, regarding the "be more competitive" statement... really? When a product yields razor thin profit margins while online retailers get a 6% advantage?

5/6/2013 8:52:42 PM

What about the websites owned by B&M chains that have to charge tax and compete with Amazon?

Walmart, BestBuy, etc. Those companies actually employ people in your community.

5/6/2013 8:53:52 PM

^^ I have yet to go online shopping and not be able to beat the in store price by a large gap. Actually I know of no item that isn't cheaper online.

^ Walmart does absolutely nothing to help a community. Do some research, when a superwalmart shows up in a community to standard of living goes DOWN. Minimum wage pay, hours kept at part time so theres no benefit, etc etc etc. Fuck Walmart

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ..]

5/6/2013 8:55:13 PM

I did not say they are high paying jobs, but at least they make the poor workers eligible for the earned income tax credit.


Do you think the people who are willing to work for Walmart wages have tons of options?

5/6/2013 9:03:53 PM

Quote :

"^^ I have yet to go online shopping and not be able to beat the in store price by a large gap. Actually I know of no item that isn't cheaper online."

This statement isn't really worth anything... but I guess your personal experience is kinda interesting?

The fact of the matter is billions of dollars have been eroded from state sales tax base because of e-commerce, and the states are going to get their money one way or another. Anyone who has championed a consumption tax or anything remotely similar to that "fair tax" should be happy about this.

Or maybe the states could raise tax on fuel and really piss everyone off!

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 9:13 PM. Reason : ]

5/6/2013 9:12:21 PM

Just raise taxes of tobacco products. Smoking kills people I don't care if they tax that at 150%

5/6/2013 9:20:15 PM

Once all the cigarette smokers die (and in the process blow up our health insurance premiums), where will the states make up for lost sales/use tax revenue?

5/6/2013 9:24:09 PM

5/6/2013 9:28:19 PM

Quote :

"This is a pretty ignorant statement. If the warehouse catches on fire, does it magically put itself out? If someone breaks into the warehouse, does the warehouse magically arrest the thief? Do the people teleport to work? Do the goods teleport themselves out of the warehouse? And then, consider the fact that Amazon got a shit ton of tax breaks to begin with just to set up shop, and I'd say they damned well ought to be paying sales tax, just like everyone else in town."

Great point. Let's eliminate sales tax across the board, problem solved.

5/6/2013 9:35:36 PM

I hate this because I can't stand the idea of giving the government more revenue until it starts responsibly spending what it brings in now but the idea that this is all about "leveling the playing field" between local mom and pop stores and online retailers is just smoke and mirrors. This is mainly being driven by large online retailers' lobbying dollars.

Amazon especially is one of the largest lobbyers for this bill because their pursuit of same day shipping has meant expanding a physical presence into more and more states. They were already looking at their days of no sales tax coming to an end in the near future so they just want to make sure everyone else goes down with them. It would also solidify the dominance of enormous internet retailers because the complexity of complying with hundreds, if not thousands, of different state and local tax codes is going to create additional overhead that's going to be a major burden for small and medium sized online businesses who don't have the scale to absorb it in the way an Amazon does.

Lawmakers get to take tons of lobbying dollars, increase government revenue, and do it all under the guise of helping mom and pop on main street. Win-win-win for them, doesn't matter if it's a win for us or not.

5/6/2013 9:46:24 PM

Only The Wolf Web would actually argue for MORE taxes. Y'all are some damn fools.

[Edited on May 6, 2013 at 10:15 PM. Reason : 1]

5/6/2013 10:07:29 PM

^ What he said.

5/6/2013 10:09:38 PM

You already owe the use tax, you're just not paying it...because you're a criminal.

I think a better solution than forcing retailers to deal with 50 different state taxes would be to just use your credit card transaction data, which the government is already spying on, for stringent use tax enforcement.

5/6/2013 10:16:14 PM

Quote :

"You already owe the use tax, you're just not paying it...because you're a criminal."

This.

5/6/2013 10:23:11 PM

here's an idea

higher tax brackets for people making more than $250,000 like commander kfc said he would and then pussed out

5/6/2013 10:24:24 PM

Keeping up with use tax payments would put the burden on us rather than the retailers. Fuck that.

And this congressional act isn't raising any funds for the federal government, just state government. If the states (especially NC who tried to get Amazon to turn over their records already for use tax enforcement) don't take the money from you via sales/use tax, they will take it by raising other taxes. Life would be awesome if we didn't have to pay any taxes wouldn't it!?

Quote :

" going to be a major burden for small and medium sized online businesses who don't have the scale to absorb it in the way an Amazon does."

The Marketplace Fairness Act has a small business exception. Retailers who pull in less than a $1M per year in gross receipts don't have to comply.

5/6/2013 10:24:50 PM

Quote :

"This is a pretty ignorant statement. If the warehouse catches on fire, does it magically put itself out? If someone breaks into the warehouse, does the warehouse magically arrest the thief? Do the people teleport to work? Do the goods teleport themselves out of the warehouse? And then, consider the fact that Amazon got a shit ton of tax breaks to begin with just to set up shop, and I'd say they damned well ought to be paying sales tax, just like everyone else in town."

No, d357r0y3r,it isn't a good point. aaronburro continues to plumb the depths of obtuseness by failing to realize that people who buy from those warehouses in those state do pay the tax the same as if you bought something from Wal-Mart since they have a physical location in that state. I can't believe I am arguing a conservative point with you. But watching you people eat your own is fairly amusing.

5/6/2013 10:31:01 PM

^ mmhmmm. And what about the UPS and federal sorting facilities that you know exist in every state? Does UPS pay the sales taxes that support the firefighters and police in those areas? No? Well, then maybe we should collect the sales tax that we're supposed to collect in the first place for those. I don't like taxes, but I can't see how anyone who loves taxes could be against this, except for selfish reasons of "I don't want to have to actually pay the taxes I supposedly support".

5/6/2013 11:08:46 PM

I am a liberal I love taxes I just fucking voluntarily mail in money to the government so they can reinvest it in my community.

5/6/2013 11:09:47 PM

The rich didn't get rich paying taxes!

5/6/2013 11:16:17 PM

the man has a point...

5/6/2013 11:18:16 PM

Quote :

"The Marketplace Fairness Act has a small business exception. Retailers who pull in less than a $1M per year in gross receipts don't have to comply."

I know this, $1M per year in sales (not profit, sales) does not equal a large, or necessarily even a medium-sized, business. Besides, if this is such a great law then why are exemptions needed for anyone. It's just an admission that this is going to be an enormous burden on businesses to enforce. A burden the large retailers are happy to bear if it raises the barrier of entry for new competition.

5/6/2013 11:51:49 PM

I never said it was a great law. As a matter of fact, I said it has some due process issues. In its current form, it's unconstitutional. But if a company is pulling in more than a million in gross receipts, then they can comply with state sales/use tax. The MFA normalizes the tax rate state by state, so different cities, parishes, and other localities can't complicate things. $1M is arbitrary, but it works fine. Charging sales tax according to 46 or so different jurisdictions isn't a barrier.

5/7/2013 12:21:14 AM

Nc's state and local gov gave massive tax breaks to apple to build their datacenter here.

Amazon likely gets similar treatment.

I'd be disappointed if our politicians weren't trying to recoup this. (Apple has been charging state sales tax).

Gov also funds or promotes lots of telecom infrastructure.

Online sales tax will have to happen, get used to it.

They should be lowering sales tax overall though.

[Edited on May 7, 2013 at 12:28 AM. Reason : ]

5/7/2013 12:27:02 AM

NC enacted a click-through nexus law to try to collect sales and use tax from Amazon purchases. Amazon terminated their contracts with all NC affiliates. NC responded by demanding records of all purchases by NC residents so they could audit residents on their Amazon purchases. Residents and ACLU sued, and NC lost on a first amendment argument. Some shit about demanding records of the media their residents were buying had a chilling effect on free speech.

Amazon doesn't have physical presence in NC, NC hasn't recouped shit, and they are struggling with the issue.

A problem is lots of states are compensating loss of sales tax revenue by broadening their sales tax base, charging sales tax on digital goods, cloud computing, services that weren't taxable before, etc... And that isn't good for anybody.

5/7/2013 12:35:01 AM

What they need to do is start either collecting all their taxes on the front end from your paycheck or on the backend from what you purchase. This bullshit of taxing your income and then basically taxing your income again on anything you buy is what causes all these problems in the first place.

5/7/2013 8:44:43 AM

There are a handful of states that don't collect sales tax, but they still collect other excise taxes, income tax, property tax, and dozens of other taxes.

There are a handful of states that don't collect income tax, but collect sales tax, other excise taxes, property tax, and dozens of other taxes.

For the most part, lawmakers know that consumption taxes are more economically efficient, but also know we need a progressive tax system. Good luck getting the 50 states to agree on something congress has never been able to agree on. Plus, the bullshit you're talking about would still be there even if every state got rid of income tax in favor of sales tax. The internet sales problem would go away if no states charged income tax though (not like that would ever happen).

5/7/2013 9:08:36 AM

Most states complicate sales tax even further. I know in PA you don't pay sales tax on clothing and food, but you do on pretty much everything else.

My girlfriend's family owns a farm here in NC, so we don't pay sales tax on anything we buy from Tractor Supply (and I assume from similar farm supply stores).

[Edited on May 7, 2013 at 9:20 AM. Reason : a]

5/7/2013 9:20:06 AM

The cool thing is that if the Marketplace Fairness Act is challenged and upheld by the Supreme Court, the court would probably be changing the due process test, establishing a one-sale minimum contacts standard that would fuck a whole lotta shit up and keep a lot of accountants very busy and very employed.

5/7/2013 9:42:04 AM

its hilarious how aaronburro will stubbornly argue for any conservative-led cause, even if that cause is higher taxes

5/7/2013 12:37:24 PM

I thought the same thing as well. It's quite amusing to see a "conservative" argue for more taxes.

5/7/2013 12:40:35 PM

terpball is going Marshawn Lynch Beast Mode in this thread.

5/7/2013 12:53:41 PM