i don't wanna hear all the stories i've heard a million times over the past year...

i'm just curious... is there anyone here who thought at first that zimmerman was guilty who changed their mind as more information came out over the subsequent year, or during the trial?

kind of a yes/no question. plz no tangents.

7/16/2013 11:41:22 AM

yes, but only a twinge of doubt really based on the time between the end of trayvons phone call (couple hundred feet from home) and when the confrontation happened. Obviously zimmerman still shouldn't have been following him in the first place.

7/16/2013 11:44:41 AM

Yes

7/16/2013 11:48:58 AM

I always thought he was guilty (and stupid) for pursuing the kid and getting out of his car, especially after 911 told him not to.

What happened after he got out of the car is where the doubt came in. Did Trayvon attack him? Maybe. Did he just shoot Trayvon because he was a black kid where he didn't belong? Maybe. The Maybe is the issue, that's why he walked.

If every state had the "Stand Your Ground" law, we'd see a shit ton more of cases like this.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:50 AM. Reason : a]

7/16/2013 11:49:13 AM

SYG wasn't even mentioned during these proceedings..

It had nothing to do with the defense's case.

Oops tangent

7/16/2013 11:51:38 AM

Cool. Another trayvon thread

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/16/2013 11:52:27 AM

i get it about the following thing. i'm just wondering if anyone's mind changed.

and (hopefully) for the last time, this case had nothing to do with "stand your ground" - but i followed a really cool case about a year or so ago out of miami where a guy successfully used "stand your ground" to get away with stabbing a dude who swung a bag of radios at him.

^yeah, sorry for another one... but i havent been here in a minute and i can't read that 90 page thing and this was really my main question. everything else has been beaten into the ground by both sides.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ....]

7/16/2013 11:52:47 AM

Final answer: Yes, there is someone here who thought at first that zimmerman was guilty who changed their mind as more information came out over the subsequent year, or during the trial.

7/16/2013 11:53:23 AM

lol

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason : a]

7/16/2013 11:53:38 AM

^^ha. damn you.

okay. if it was you, then say so. i want to know.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason : skip]

7/16/2013 11:54:30 AM

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason : /]

7/16/2013 11:55:08 AM

blah blah blah yes or no

7/16/2013 11:55:44 AM

No.

7/16/2013 11:56:31 AM

So throwing out SYG, I still think GZ shouldn't have been in the position to shoot Trayvon anyway. So he is definitely guilty of something, just not sure what. Which is why he walked.

7/16/2013 11:57:14 AM

lol a bag of radios

7/16/2013 11:57:17 AM

Bottom line: Guns are for pussies - Trayvon had shit parenting. GZ went through the legal system. Don't like it? then don't complain about jury duty. Its literally more important than voting.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/16/2013 11:59:22 AM

oh shit, bag of radios stabber guy got hit by a stray bullet

thanks obama

http://sandrarose.com/2012/06/man-freed-in-controversial-stand-your-ground-ruling-is-killed/

Quote :

"In a controversial decision in March, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom ruled Garcia acted in self-defense when he chased Pedro Roteta several blocks and stabbed him to death."

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:01 PM. Reason : chased? omfg]

7/16/2013 11:59:25 AM

You should try to change the law if you don't like it. Sign up to become a delegate. Spoiler alert: Its not difficult at all to become a delegate at least in NC. Otherwise by being a citizen you agree to comply by the laws and the justice system.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/16/2013 12:01:39 PM

ps the reason why i wanted this thread to stay on topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6KgKR_J9D4

but whatever

lol

7/16/2013 12:02:38 PM

sure thing.

because that hasn't been done this week.

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/16/2013 12:03:02 PM

The SYG law is pretty much the same as if someone breaks into your house here in NC and you shoot/kill them. If you feel they are a threat, you can legally use deadly force. It opens a HUGE can of worms.

Check this scenario that could happen here in NC. I let a Jehova's Witness into my home and decide to shoot him because he's black and looks shady. As long as I make sure I kill him, then I am the only witness to the act. I can easily make a case that once he was in my home he attacked me and I defended myself. Shit, I could even make the case that he forced his way into my home.

7/16/2013 12:03:23 PM

^^look just get out of my thread if you don't like it, you creepy ass cracKKKa white devil motherfucker

Quote :

"Check this scenario that could happen here in NC. I let a Jehova's Witness into my home and decide to shoot him because he's black and looks shady. As long as I make sure I kill him, then I am the only witness to the act. I can easily make a case that once he was in my home he attacked me and I defended myself. Shit, I could even make the case that he forced his way into my home."

you're right, as long as they don't find any evidence otherwise. better watch out, black jehovas witnesses

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:06 PM. Reason : devil]

7/16/2013 12:04:01 PM

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:11 PM. Reason : /]

7/16/2013 12:04:01 PM

god damn you people are either illiterate of hormonal

7/16/2013 12:04:51 PM

why not both?

7/16/2013 12:05:19 PM

haha true dat

7/16/2013 12:06:32 PM

I was indifferent prior to the trial, and given what i've watched, the prosecution did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was guilty, therefore I agree with the verdict.

There were no eye witnesses other than GZ or TM, and the only witnesses that testified, testified in favor of GZ. Everything else was speculation by either the prosecution or 95% of the rambling retards on the internet.

"he probably did it because he was a wannabe hero and should have gotten back in his car" isn't enough to eliminate the doubt about what actually took place that night

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:09 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2013 12:08:30 PM

But seriously, the SYG law (even though the defense didn't use it in this case) seriously opens up the door for reasonable doubt in murder cases.

7/16/2013 12:08:50 PM

i wonder what percentage of murder cases are argued with an affirmative defense of self defense

^^outside of how it played out in a legal sense, i'm pretty indifferent too. politics is for homosexuals

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason : gays]

7/16/2013 12:13:49 PM

^

Quote :

" plz no tangents."

7/16/2013 12:15:03 PM

Quote :

"better watch out, black jehovas witnesses"

7/16/2013 12:15:47 PM

^^ha fuck you, youre the one who kept talking about syg

anyways, i meant no tangents about the same arguments we've heard both sides make a million times.

^that's right.. i knew there was a black jehovas witness on tv, but i couldnt remember who

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason : haha]

7/16/2013 12:16:28 PM

you mean a nigger jehovas witness right?

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

7/16/2013 12:21:19 PM

If Jehova's Witnesses start wearing hoodies, they're fucked.

7/16/2013 12:23:32 PM

I thought outcome in court was correct, but I still think Zimmerman is at the root of this incident and more than 50% at fault for everything.

7/16/2013 12:28:50 PM

Zim is a rent-a-cop that wanted to be a real cop.

7/16/2013 12:30:05 PM

My mind changed from "I dunno. Sounds tragic" at the beginning to "oh this guy was a football player with male aggression issues who fucked up, and flipped out on the wrong guy. Shame."

I remember being that age, in my physical prime and I knew it, hating rules and just itching for someone to pull rank on me and present a target for me to attack.
Fuck, Most guys go through that I THINK.
Most of us don't beat the piss out of people who clearly are NOT itching to "have a go" and see who is toughest though. And those that do, mostly do so with other males their age that hey probably know fairly well.
I almost flew off on a teacher once in HS and the shit I would have done to him, had he been armed, he would have had every right to blow me away because I wasn't going to stop till I was tired

7/16/2013 12:34:11 PM

1) SYG is not a justifiable defense when you chase someone down. Any cases to go that way either have shit judges or that particular statute was very poorly written.

2) You don't need SYG laws to shoot a "threat" in your home.

7/16/2013 12:36:36 PM

^^this kid didn't got off on a teacher because the teacher tried to impose some authority on him.

the kid (maybe) went off on some guy who was following him around at night in his own neighorhood and probably instigated the altercation.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:37 PM. Reason : ]

7/16/2013 12:37:38 PM

^^ Right, you don't need SYG to shoot a threat in your home. But the SYG law takes it outside of the home, which is the problem.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason : a]

7/16/2013 12:38:09 PM

It's easy to tell who has the latent racism, because they assume the Black kid was some thug who probably mouthed off to the person who pursued him and probably started shit and probably deserved it.

7/16/2013 12:38:42 PM

I still have a hard time understanding why race is even an issue in this case

But my black FB friends are all over it

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason : a]

7/16/2013 12:40:31 PM

Because this is why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf3yWMWZrz0

7/16/2013 12:41:58 PM

the point of the "teacher" analogy was to illustrate a DIFFERENT point. Along the lines of the definition of fucking ANALOGY.

you dont get to play the semantics card till after you've played the race card

7/16/2013 12:42:21 PM

I guess none of my black FB friends realize that Zim isn't white. I get it, Zimmerman is a pretty white last name, but so is Martin.

7/16/2013 12:43:46 PM

I never thought he was guilty

7/16/2013 12:44:40 PM

^^^^^No, it's not a problem. A victim shouldn't be legally required to turn run from an attacker, making themselves that much more defenseless. So now, instead of automatically being a murderer for shooting someone with no other witnesses, you at least have the chance to claim self defense under a strong law. It also puts the onus on the state to actually prove a crime was committed, instead of the defense trying to prove self defense. It also typically comes with protections from further criminal and civil actions, which are very much needed after a self defense shooting.

As far as this thread, I went from skeptical on both stories, to innocent, to mostly guilty and hoping for a manslaughter verdict. In the end, I think GZ following TM was where GZ lost reasonable self-defense claims, at which point TM may have been within his rights to protection himself from a stalker. However, because the facts are muddy/unknown, I don't think this case amounts to murder. There was obviously an altercation, which the evidence points to TM starting, at which point GZ used self defense, and in my opinion, without legal justification.

Quote :

"It's easy to tell who has the latent racism, because they assume the Black kid was some thug who probably mouthed off to the person who pursued him and probably started shit and probably deserved it."

Uh, I'm not saying TM was a thug, but have you seriously seen none of his pictures? Guns, money, drugs, middle fingers. I mean, he portrays himself as a thug... so one might come to the conclusion that he is.... ?

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason : .]

7/16/2013 12:45:02 PM

Facebook race-spammers dont recognize east africans as black so don't get your hopes up

7/16/2013 12:45:44 PM

^^No, it is a problem.......for prosecutors. I totally agree with the law, just think it opens HUGE doors for reasonable doubt.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason : A]

7/16/2013 12:47:59 PM

Quote :

"Uh, I'm not saying TM was a thug, but have you seriously seen none of his pictures? Guns, money, drugs, middle fingers. I mean, he portrays himself as a thug... so one might come to the conclusion that he is.... ?"

Clearly George Zimmerman knew all of this when he engaged the individual.

7/16/2013 12:48:49 PM