Does anyone know where you can download a PDF saying the new places that you are now legally permitted to carry?

7/30/2013 10:09:51 AM

If only there was a gun thread around here...

7/30/2013 10:18:48 AM

^ Don't be a Douche Bag

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 10:19 AM. Reason : ]

7/30/2013 10:19:35 AM

I've got a PDF summary of the changes and a PDF of HB937. I can email them to you.

But primarily:
In places that charge admission
State parking lots (locked in a container in a locked car)
State property (other than the obvious places - governer's mansion, capitol, courts)
Parades, funeral processions, picket lines, demonstrations
Parks, greenways, trails, open fields etc. (redefining parts of HB650; no carry still at: athletic fields and associated facilities during scheduled events, swimming pools, facilities for athletic events)
Places where alcohol is sold and consumed
In vehicle on educational campuses (though I don't recall if there is anything regarding driving through/not exiting your vehicle... if you exit, your firearm must be locked inside a compartment in your locked car)
Hunting with supressors
PPP/CHP data is no longer public

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 12:28 PM. Reason : more]

7/30/2013 12:20:03 PM

The new law doesn't take effect until October 1st.

7/30/2013 12:29:05 PM

Quote :

"Parks, greenways, trails, open fields etc. (redefining parts of HB650; no carry still at: athletic fields and associated facilities "

Fuck yea, take back the Tobacco Trail in Durham

i wanna see dead teenage thugs

7/30/2013 12:37:02 PM

Quote :

"Places where alcohol is sold and consumed"

I don't live in NC, and don't really follow gun stuff that closely, but I am very surprised by this one. I kinda thought this restriction made sense.

7/30/2013 12:40:29 PM

^ You can't drink and carry. Any alcohol in your system and you're in a world of shit.

7/30/2013 12:42:09 PM

^^Yeh, because going to Moe's Southwest Grill with a firearm is just so dangerous!

7/30/2013 12:44:09 PM

can you imagine if a bouncer is removing some guy from a bar and hes resisting (as they normally do) then all of a sudden some well-meaning patron pulls his gun out in the interest of helping?

thats the kinda shit I am afraid of. yea you arent supposed to carry while drinking but bars arent supposed to serve alcohol to the point of intoxication either in NC. unfortunately all that is sorted out after someone is injured or dead.

7/30/2013 12:47:20 PM

That's still illegal to do... so I'm not sure what your point is. You can't use deadly force to defend others if you don't see and know all of the facts regarding the situation.

And even without HB937, that scenario still exists... bouncer throwing someone out, an armed person outside of the club and legally carrying sees what appears to be a fight and uses deadly force to end it.... so really, HB937 doesn't change what could happen; and in either case, deadly force by the third party is not justified.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2013 12:50:35 PM

well i am saying that in a bar where before no one would have a gun now people are allowed to conceal carry...I have been in situations where patrons jump in to help us if a guy or a group of guys are not leaving peacefully. It winds up going to pandemonium. if someone has a weapon that potential skyrockets.

not outside the club, inside.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason : e]

7/30/2013 12:52:59 PM

Even then, legally, the bouncer would have to be killing the guy. Deadly force, and thus the justification of drawing your weapon, requires the threat of death or grievous bodily harm. A bouncer giving some dude the bum's rush hardly qualifies. It's not the wild west out there and this new law isn't going to change that.

7/30/2013 12:54:25 PM

I was more thinking about other drunk people starting arguments or fights, and some sober idiot pulling out his pistol.

I'm not saying I disagree with the new stuff, just surprised by that one. Parking lots, trails, parades, funerals, in vehicles, etc... all make perfect sense.

7/30/2013 12:55:56 PM

^^^ha, no one had a gun in a bar prior to HB937. that's a good one.

You're dreaming up a typical bloodbath scenario that leftists love to use to combat carry rights, but the fact is, is that such scenarios are extremely rare and almost never involve a permit holder. NC isn't the first state to allow carry in places that serve alcohol and those other states have not had such issues.

^see my above posts.

Maybe you and wolf should clarify your statements to say that you don't care for carry in bars/clubs, as opposed to restaurants. I can agree with you there for the most part. The entire purpose behind this part of HB937 was to eliminate the idiotic ban on carrying in restaurants while not drinking. It was not to allow club/bar carry; however, NC has a weak system of defining these places, thus it's hard to define them in terms of carry. If we had sound and reasonable definitions, then I would certainly agree with a ban on carry in clubs; no ban in restaurants, and a time-based ban in bars (say, after 10 PM). Obviously the issue here is defining bar vs restaurant... to get what I want out of this, I guess I'd agree with only having clubs and restaurant classifications; no carry in clubs, no carry after 10PM in restaurants that serve alcohol. Again, the entire point of this was to allow patrons to carry while eating out. Not to carry while partying it up. So, could HB937 be improved from this standpoint? Absolutely. But for now we were left with no carry or all carry. I'll take all carry for now, as your bloodbath scenarios are far-fetched (but worthy enough to consider for better defining carry in such places).

oh yeh, definitions:

club = no food cooked/served (delivery to club does not count) (shitty limits)
bar = food cooked/served, but remains open late night and becomes primarily a drinking establishment that happens to serve food (most college bars, e.g. Ruckus, Big Easy, etc.).
restaurant = food cooked/served, primary function is food service, non-late hours (applebees, moe's, etc.)

while not robust definitions, you get the idea. And these definitions would obviously have to apply to individual establishments, not chains/groups as a whole

though now that I think about it, many clubs have started cooking/serving food, so you'd probably need a good way to identify/classify clubs... based on primary purpose, proportion of food sales vs other services, etc. And this is also where the bars definition gets muddy... for example, during the day/early evening, a place like Ruckus resembles a restaurant for the most part... but after a certain time it's more of a drinking establishment.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:16 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2013 12:56:55 PM

Can restaurants/bars restrict people from carrying guns in their establishment?



[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:07 PM. Reason : v word]

7/30/2013 1:03:57 PM

Any privately owned business may still prohibit carry (open, concealed, both) and is backed by law.

Though, establishments that have posted in the past that were frequented by those who carry have mostly taken back that posting due to complaints/boycotts (e.g. Lowe's)

this was going to be my next point - clubs should post against carry. As above, I think bars should have posted hours for no carry, but I don't think this would hold up under current law.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:06 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2013 1:05:14 PM

Yeah, I specifically mean "clubs". Carrying into applebees isn't a problem.

I still personally think you should be able to carry everywhere, but I know there are some irresponsible idiots out there that ruin it for all of us.

I carry every day and have a concealed permit.

7/30/2013 1:11:12 PM

Ok, then we're in agreement.

7/30/2013 1:15:09 PM

Quote :

"You can't use deadly force to defend others if you don't see and know all of the facts regarding the situation."

When has anyone ever known all the facts of a situation in a shootout?

"I thought he had a gun."

7/30/2013 1:26:28 PM

which is why defending others with deadly force isn't legal unless you do know...

7/30/2013 1:28:04 PM

lol you think I am a leftist...

youre not following me at all. I am not talking about fucking applebees i am talkin about places where there is nothing going on but the serving of alcohol

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:30 PM. Reason : f]

7/30/2013 1:29:15 PM

But you're saying that as if it will prevent things from happening, when it clearly won't.

7/30/2013 1:29:19 PM

^^I didn't call you a leftist and I know that you aren't. I said that line of reasoning was the same as what leftists use...

Quote :

"I am not talking about fucking applebees i am talkin about places where there is nothing going on but the serving of alcohol"

And this is the first time you've stated such.

^clearly it does... how many shootouts, where a permit holder is uninvolved, but enters to "defend" someone, are occurring? believe it or not, by and large, the law itself deters permit holders from breaking the law...

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:33 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2013 1:29:56 PM

nothing prevents shit from happening. thats obvious

im not one of those guys that are alarmed when i see a gun on someones hip trust me I am all for it. but at bars motherfucker stumble in fucked up off alcohol, coke, lean, whatever and now pandemonium breaks out with fists and knives once in awhile now pandemonium breaks out where a gun may be present and with how medicated and pro-drug our society is it will escalate into a situation that 1) has the potential to cause further harm and 2) has the potential to create some mass misunderstanding with other patrons

you cant ignore that fact. I believe it should be the sole discretion of a club owner. But I personally dont feel weapons should be allowed in places that serve only alcohol. You see how many fights start over dumb ass shit?

7/30/2013 1:35:58 PM

Quote :

"And this is the first time you've stated such. "

well i didnt think it needed to be stated. I didnt say "at applebees shit be poppin off yo" i never gave one thought to applebees or any food service place.

7/30/2013 1:37:06 PM

Well, with your latest definition of club, we are in agreement, as I've already stated above... so.... ?

^you commented on the issue of "places where alcohol is sold and consumed" with no qualifier for places where no food is served/primarily drinking establishment until now. It's reasonable to assume that you may have been against such carry all together as many people are.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2013 1:38:09 PM

we cool homie

7/30/2013 1:39:10 PM

7/30/2013 1:42:27 PM

Quote :

"Can restaurants/bars restrict people from carrying guns in their establishment?"

Players Retreat is: http://www.northraleighnews.com/2013/07/28/3065447/shaffer-at-raleighs-players-retreat.html

7/30/2013 1:48:34 PM

Quote :

"You see how many fights start over dumb ass shit?"

I know I'm overly cynical about this. Darwinism. If someone gets hurt or dies over dumb shit, then so be it. Don't start nothing, won't be nothing. I'm not going through every damn scenario on this topic, but generally, there's always an out/a chance to just walk away from dumb ass shit before it explodes into something more. People let their arrogance and pride escalate things. Are we animals who only react to our surroundings/environment/instinct or are we capable of actually controlling our behavior? I believe the latter, however, the decline of disciplined children/adults in our society trends towards the former.

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 1:55 PM. Reason : /]

7/30/2013 1:55:32 PM

if folks ignored the law before, you can cool believe they'll ignore his little sign

7/30/2013 1:59:30 PM

Of course.

7/30/2013 2:06:54 PM

i'm glad you agree that his sign does nothing more than provide a warm fuzzy to folks

7/30/2013 2:25:05 PM

i don't agree with you on that. he, as the owner, is stating that guns are not allowed in the establishment that he owns. sure, there will be some folks who do it anyway, but he has the right to let people know where he stands on the issue. why do you have a problem with that?

7/30/2013 2:45:15 PM

Quote :

"sure, there will be some folks who do it anyway"

So youre saying the sign is pointless?

7/30/2013 2:52:52 PM

no. are you saying all laws are pointless?

[Edited on July 30, 2013 at 2:55 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2013 2:54:57 PM

99% of the time it's not the people with a cc permit who are the problem.

7/30/2013 3:25:38 PM

i have no problem at all with his sign. it's his business. i do believe that there should be a specific sign of a minimum size if you're going to allow it to carry force of law. that's what texas (and possibly some other states) does. i would also prefer that violators simply be charged with trespassing.

but yeah, i'm all for an owner of private property making whatever rules he wants.

i just don't think his sign makes anyone safer.

7/30/2013 3:32:21 PM

^yep.

It's private property, so the owner is free to post; however, as NRR said, if it is going to have legal backing, then there should be a standard sign, size, color, and location; and it should be required to be on all doors of a business. Some people have gotten screwed at malls because the mall will post no carry on one/a few entrances, but not the others.

I also don't see why this should carry any charge/penalty beyond trespassing.

And on the other side of "it's his right", it's also my right to protest, boycott, and demand the owner change policies.

7/30/2013 7:32:25 PM

^ and ^^ it is that way in KS as well (carried there for a few years). Has to be one specific sign with a specific size and a specific spot on the door and then all they can do is ask you to leave.

I like KS's gun laws. The one I like the most is that only buildings can be posted/off limits. No parking lots, parks, etc can be posted.

7/30/2013 7:53:53 PM

Quote :

"Fuck yea, take back the Tobacco Trail in Durham i wanna see dead teenage thugs"

Funny, I too thought of this.

7/30/2013 10:45:53 PM

Quote :

"you cant ignore that fact. I believe it should be the sole discretion of a club owner"

it is their discretion, they just have to post a sign to prohibit it

7/31/2013 7:26:03 AM

these laws are buuuuuuulshit. if a private property owner doesn't want people to bring their guns into their restaurants or shops they shouldn't be forced to let them.

7/31/2013 8:25:24 AM

^Read the thread, it doesnt force private property owners to do anything except buy and post a sign saying no CC allowed.

Also, from that PR article

Quote :

"wrote Katherine Elizabeth, adding "I'd rather get strip-searched at every bar I enter than not know if a drunk weapon-carrier was there."

No problem, I'll stop CCing as long as I get to watch you get strip-searched.

7/31/2013 8:56:28 AM

God damn that Obama taking away all our gun rights....

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 10:14:46 AM

Quote :

"these laws are buuuuuuulshit. if a private property owner doesn't want people to bring their guns into their restaurants or shops they shouldn't be forced to let them."

Uh, where'd you get the idea anyone is being forced to allow guns into their shops? Because that's exactly opposite of what the law says. In fact, the restaurant carry section specifically mentions owner's posting against carry (which is already covered until another section).

^President of the United State of North Carolina?

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2013 12:19:39 PM

My first instinct on this law is that either (1) it will be a lot of worry over nothing, because concealed and open carry people who are responsible are not generally the people we need to worry about, or (2) it will end up creating a shitload of problems that the opponents are worried about.

I think it's hard to tell until the law has been in place for a while. It's kind of like Obamacare, there's a lot of bitching but no one will really know what will happen until it all plays out. I can say one thing, I think it is definitely intimidating to see someone carrying a weapon anywhere. I think another person having a weapon has a chilling effect on behavior and I would do pretty much everything I could to stay away from those environments. Even if it's very unlikely shit would go down, I've been in situations before where shit DID go down, and if someone had a gun, it would have ended very badly.

(By chilling effect, I mean that I would pretty much be sitting in that establishment constantly concerned about the dude with the gun, and I would not even exercise my normal freedoms because I'd want to make sure shit didn't go sideways.)

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 12:51 PM. Reason : ret]

7/31/2013 12:47:35 PM

Quote :

"I would not even exercise my normal freedoms because I'd want to make sure shit didn't go sideways.)"

I can't think of one single thing in my normal day-to-day that would garner the slightest 'trigger finger twitch' from someone carrying a gun.


that is all-

7/31/2013 1:40:06 PM

Quote :

" I think another person having a weapon has a chilling effect on behavior and I would do pretty much everything I could to stay away from those environments. Even if it's very unlikely shit would go down, I've been in situations before where shit DID go down, and if someone had a gun, it would have ended very badly."

so since even before this legislation concealed carry was allowed in all other places, do you currently do everything you can to avoid all of those other places? You currently avoid going to the grocery store, or hardware store, getting your haircut, getting gas, etc...?

7/31/2013 2:20:16 PM