Hey folks I live in VA now but was visiting last weekend and got pulled for doing 50 in a 35. The ass chapper is that, before I missed the speed change, the limit was 55 and I was intentionally cruising slow as I could get away with to reduce shocks in the load I was hauling...anyway, I understand that the NC felony threshold is 15 over, so I should lawyer up...right? Ticket was written in Johnston County, anyone have any particular names they recommend? This is my first ticket in several years and my first ever written at 15+

Thanks in advance

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 12:13 PM. Reason : Fine/Court Costs/Total : $30/188/218]

4/8/2014 12:11:09 PM

Shit that's a hell of a speed change...55 to 35

You should get a lot of shit in the mail. Pick the one that looks the best That's how I got out of my last ticket in the sticks.

4/8/2014 12:20:52 PM

Haha fair enough...never used a PJC, for the record. Might try to swing that, but I guess I should probably figure all that out with a lawyer

4/8/2014 12:27:21 PM

Quote :

"I understand that the NC felony threshold is 15 over, so I should lawyer up...right?"

No, it's not a felony. Felony implies a pretty serious charge. 16 over could cause you to lose your license, but I believe 15 over just gets you a fine and lets the insurance company buttfuck you hard for three years. I'd still recommend a lawyer. Even if you plead it down to 9MPH over to save the insurance costs you'll still have to pay a fine/court costs and take time off work to go to court. The extra $150-$200 for a lawyer to handle it isn't bad if they can guarantee it won't affect your insurance.

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2014 12:31:49 PM

Quote :

"Even if you plead it down to 9MPH over to save the insurance costs you'll still have to pay a fine/court costs"

Yes, but the fine and court cost are only $200. It really depends on your driving record on if your insurance will change. I've gotten this same ticket and there was no change...

4/8/2014 12:35:57 PM

just use your PJC imo.

4/8/2014 12:45:11 PM

^^ I thought it would be less than $200, but the point remains the same. You can take your chances with the legal system, take time off work to go to court, spend money on gas to drive to the courthouse in JoCo, and pay $200 yourself or just pay a lawyer $300-$350 and forget it happened. That's certainly up to each individual to decide, but the lawyer's services are looking pretty attractive to me in that scenario.

If you are found guilty of driving 10-15MPH over and your insurance company becomes aware of it your insurance will go up. Sometimes the insurance company doesn't check your driving record at each renewal, but most of the time they do. I don't know how many points 15 over will give you, but 1 point in NC equates to a 25% increase in insurance rates and three points equates to a 60% increase. It's really worth handling properly now so you don't pay out the ass later.

PJC is probably an option for you. I'd consider whether it's worth using on a traffic violation if you think you are a person who stands a chance of getting caught for something that would cause more significant damage to your future.

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 12:52 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2014 12:52:09 PM

Lots to think about. Sounds like I should at least talk to a lawyer and my insurance company in any case. Is PJC only an NC thing? Or say I use it and down the line I get pulled in VA, would it affect how that case is handled?

4/8/2014 1:00:48 PM

You just need to get a lawyer.

IMO a PJC isn't always a get outta jail free card...I tried to use it once and the judge said he only allows a PJC when someone's license is in jeopardy.

^^ I don't think a lawyer in JoCo would be nearly that much.

4/8/2014 1:08:49 PM

If you are able to make it down yourself, it will 99% likely get dropped/reduced. The only reason to really hire a lawyer is if you just can't be down here on the court date.

If you are in the disposition court room, it will 99.9999% get reduced/dropped.

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2014 1:11:43 PM

Anthony Hopkins

I used to be his nanny. They know me as Elise. See if he cuts you a deal. It has been a while since I have seen them but it can't hurt to ask.

4/8/2014 1:15:56 PM

Quote :

"If you are able to make it down yourself, it will 99% likely get dropped/reduced. The only reason to really hire a lawyer is if you just can't be down here on the court date. If you are in the disposition court room, it will 99.9999% get reduced/dropped."

I agree that he can probably get it dropped to 9 over by asking the DA prior to court. The thing is that every courtroom is different. Some counties will offer to reduce it to "improper equipment" (bad speedometer) which is a very attractive plea whereas some are far less willing to deal. Some judges are more willing to cut you a deal than others within the same county.

A local lawyer should have the advantage of knowing what can and can't be done in each courtroom. With that knowledge they can create a strategy to get you the best deal possible. They might go to court on your date and continue your case because the judge on the bench is known to be a hard ass. It's very likely that they have developed a strong working relationship with the assistant DAs and will leverage that relationship to get you the best deal in their power.


[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 1:34 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2014 1:32:43 PM

so why not just go and ask the ADA for what you want, and if they don't get it then just get a continuance and hire an attorney?

4/8/2014 2:03:16 PM

time is money.

4/8/2014 2:14:42 PM

Quote :

" I understand that the NC felony threshold is 15 over, so I should lawyer up...right? "

back in like 1999, I got pulled over for going 61 in a 45 zone (Cary Parkway, actually) and I don't think I was even charged with a misdemeanor

I just walked in the courtroom, they offered me a plea-bargain to take it down to 52 or something, I said okay, and that was that.

4/8/2014 2:19:05 PM

Quote :

"Anthony Hopkins I used to be his nanny. "

4/8/2014 2:35:20 PM

I got a 20 over speeding ticket in Richmond last year. Paid a lawyer 500 and never had to deal with it again. He emailed me on the day of the courtroom appearance and said it was reduced and I had nothing to worry about.

4/8/2014 2:39:36 PM

That is his real name. But it is not the actor. I nannied his kids not him.

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 2:45 PM. Reason : clatk]

4/8/2014 2:45:08 PM

Not sure if this is still a thing but I got two speeding tickets in JoCo and both got a lawyer and they were dismissed/reduced/whatever on "improper equipment".

4/8/2014 3:07:56 PM

Quote :

"if they can guarantee it won't affect your insurance."

They can't really guarantee anything, and they aren't really supposed to say what they think they can get you, I don't think, but you can usually talk to them and read between the lines (and sometimes they'll say pretty explicitly).

Quote :

"It really depends on your driving record on if your insurance will change. I've gotten this same ticket and there was no change..."

In NC, a 9-over ticket is 2 insurance points. Per NC law, insurance points less than 3 are not chargeable. They last for 3 years, so if you have no moving violations or at-fault accidents within the last 3 years, 9-over will not affect your insurance. However, if you get another ticket/at-fault wreck within 3 years, you will be charged for both, as it will break the 3-point threshold.

Quote :

"just use your PJC imo."

[NO]

Save the PJC for worse tickets. You don't need it for this; it would be of minimal (if any) benefit over your other options.

Quote :

"If you are able to make it down yourself, it will 99% likely get dropped/reduced. The only reason to really hire a lawyer is if you just can't be down here on the court date. If you are in the disposition court room, it will 99.9999% get reduced/dropped."

Pretty much.

There are a few hard-ass locations (Wake County, NC, and especially Montgomery County, AL) that make things more difficult, but 98% of places follow roughly the following model, designed to maximize their net profits (i.e., extract the maximum number of dollars per amount of effort expended. If you make it difficult, they settle for less money, because they'd rather just process more offenses than tie up resources on you).

-First, they hope you just mail in a check for the fine + court costs.

-If you show up at your court hearing (you don't need a suit or anything...business casual-type attire is fine), you they will probably offer you a reduction to 9-over. There's no Johnnie Cochrane shit; there's probably no reason to even explain yourself or plead your case--remember, this is a money-collection assembly line. Most likely, you'll wait in line with a bunch of people who got DUIs or drove with revoked licenses, and you'll step up to the assistant DA when it's your turn. He'll look at your paperwork for a second, and be like "9-over sound good?" You'll say "Yes, thanks." He'll say "OK, go wait in line over there for the judge." A few minutes later, you'll stand in front of the judge and formally plead guilty to the offense of 9-over, and then the judge will say "Alright, your done, step outside and pay the lady." You'll walk out, write 'em a check, and that'll be that. Worst case, if they won't play ball, is just ask to have the case continued so that you can hire a lawyer (I've never done that, but I'm pretty sure that's all that you'd need to do.)

-If you lawyer up, understand that you are not hiring Johnny Cochrane. It has nothing to do with guilt, innocence, evidence, mitigating circumstances, or whatever. You're just hiring a professional pain in the ass who has nothing better to do than administratively logjam the court system, because he's gonna be there all day, anyway. The State doesn't want that; they don't wanna work that hard to make a couple more bucks on you at the expense of not being able to process as many cases and fines through the system. They will typically offer a non-moving violation when you send in a lawyer. It may be the exact same offense simply written up as a city code violation instead of a traffic offense, or it may be something else (which may be total bullshit, like improper equipment...or in one case, I got a speeding ticket reduced to a seatbelt violation, even though I was wearing my seatbelt.) Whatever, remember, this is just a money racket; you are essentially negotiating terms that are acceptable to everyone.

The lawyer will charge you a flat fee. Let's say it's $250 (you can spend more, but you probably won't get anything more for it). The less of an offense he can negotiate with the State, the more money he pockets. It's a moot point to you how he and the State divvy up your $250; you just want a non-moving violation, which you will almost certainly get in Johnston County (and almost everywhere else).

If the court wants to be a bitch about it, then the lawyer will have the case continued. He will keep doing this until either the cop doesn't show up, or the court says "Fuck it, this is too much trouble, you've called our bluff, and we don't want to take a chance on losing it all by the cop not showing or something weird like that. Non-moving violation it is."




Short version:

My advice is to hire a lawyer, and probably just whichever one is the cheapest that sounds reasonably competent on the phone. It will cost you only minimally more money upfront than just paying the fine or showing up yourself to get the 9-over, and then it completely disappears.

You won't have to meet with him or anything...at most, you'll talk to him for 10 minutes on the phone. Then, you just mail him the ticket and a check (or give his secretary your CC # over the phone), and that's that.

4/8/2014 4:24:37 PM

Thanks for all the advice guys, particularly that last one Duke...I remember in the past just going in and that being the case, wait in line, ADA drops it to 9 over almost without speaking, pay fine and leave. But the last ticket I got was actually bullshit and the ADA that day (wake co) was so taken aback by the audacity that I would argue it that he offered no deal and I was stuck with either admitting guilt to the full ticket or going in front of the judge unrepresented, which I was not prepared for...so I'll play the game. Lawyer sounds like my best option so I don't have to worry about any of it, time being the biggest cost for me. I was unaware that the lawyer fee generally included (or precluded) court costs and the fine, I was thinking I'd have to pay them $250-300 on top of all that.

4/8/2014 5:00:05 PM

Don't use a PJC in JoCo. Get a good lawyer and they'll get it dropped to improper equipment.

I've used Woodruff, Reece, and Fortner with positive results in JoCo several times for speeding tickets just like this. It will cost you probably around $200-250.

http://www.wrflaw.com/


Don't bother trying to go to court in JoCo and plead down yourself, either. The DAs don't care and will stick you with it, because it's a pass-through county (I-95, I-40, and US70 all go through) and they raise their revenue by popping out-of-towners for bullshit speeding tickets. JoCo has a longstanding good-ol boy system that screws the citizen and benefits the lawyers/judges. Every judge there used to be a criminal defense guy and they all hang out together outside the courtroom. You're not going to break that up, and are better off just paying someone to take care of the ticket for you.

[Edited on April 8, 2014 at 7:35 PM. Reason : gotten at least 4 tickets there over the years, lawyer up and get improper equipment.]

4/8/2014 7:32:04 PM

damn, I must have overpaid for my lawyer in JoCo at least it got taken care of

4/8/2014 7:56:11 PM

Yeah, $250ish is the going rate, and no, that's not on top of the ticket. That's all-inclusive.

Wake County is a pain in the ass. They don't do improper equipment. James Crouch got me out of a couple in Wake County, but mere mortal lawyers probably will not be able to pull that one off under any normal circumstances.

I did get a ticket for going about 80-90 on an onramp to the Beltline, totally dismissed a couple of years ago, though. Of course, he just visually estimated my speed (not pacing...just eyeballed it), but it is possible in some circumstances in Wake County. I don't recall what lawyer I used, though. That isn't to say that Wake County won't do 9-over (I've gone to court myself and gotten that)...it's just that it's tougher to get a non-moving violation or especially a total dismissal.

You shouldn't have any problem in Johnston County. $250 should render it the equivalent of an expensive parking fine.

4/8/2014 8:15:14 PM

Only traffic ticket I ever got was in Joco (joco born and raised). It was probably 6 or 7 years ago. Vann Sauls, family friend, got it reduced to improper equipment. I don't remember how much he cost or anything though. He's in the mcgees crossroads area

4/8/2014 9:09:37 PM

Any of those lawyers from the DWI dismissal ring should be able to get a speeding ticket thrown out.

4/8/2014 9:12:17 PM

My guy only does traffic tickets and green cards. Green cards is a new thing. He was traffic only until they raised court costs.

4/8/2014 9:22:26 PM

Quote :

" James Crouch got me out of a couple in Wake County, but mere mortal ethical lawyers probably will not be able to pull that one off under any normal circumstances."

4/8/2014 11:30:15 PM

15 over in a 55+ zone is an automatic suspension of your license. I think that's what you must be thinking of, but you won't have to worry about this for a 35 mph zone.

Funny story: my old boss got a ticket for going +15 over on the interstate in SC. Since it was out-of-state he opted to pay the fine, thinking that would be the end of it. Fast forward a few years to just before the expiration date on his license. He walks into the DMV to renew, and they tell him his license has been suspended and never reinstated for years. He pays the restoration fee, etc. and walks out with his new license. Drove around for years with no valid license.

4/9/2014 10:03:04 AM

Quote :

"15 over in a 55+ zone is an automatic suspension of your license."

[NO]

Maybe somewhere, but not in most places.

4/9/2014 10:09:22 AM

[YES]

http://www.dmv.org/nc-north-carolina/traffic-ticket-fines-and-penalties.php#North-Carolina-Traffic-Ticket-Penalties

Quote :

" There are certain first-time traffic violations that mandate the immediate loss of driving privileges, and some of these include: Prearranged racing with another vehicle Speeding over 75 mph Passing a stopped school bus Driving more than 15 mph over the speed limit, if you are driving at a speed higher than 55 mph DUI "

http://www.statedrivinglaw.com/north-carolina-driving-law.html

Quote :

"Under North Carolina traffic laws, your driving privilege will be revoked for at least 30 days if you are convicted of: driving any vehicle more than 15 mph over the speed limit, if you are driving at a speed higher than 55 mph. "

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/ncspeed.pdf

Quote :

"Required Suspension for operating a motor vehicle (1) >15 MPH over the speed limit and also driving >55 MPH or (2) >80 MPH-30 days §20-16.1(a) "

4/9/2014 3:19:04 PM

Quote :

"15 over in a 55+ zone is an automatic suspension of your license. I think that's what you must be thinking of, but you won't have to worry about this for a 35 mph zone. "

I've gotten 2 tickets for 20+ over. 56 in a 35 and one on the highway (87 in a 65). For both, I simply went to court and asked for a plea, they both got dropped to 9 over. Paid ~$150 and walked out. No insurance hits or anything.

[Edited on April 9, 2014 at 3:56 PM. Reason : wake county]

4/9/2014 3:55:50 PM

^ yep, pretty standard.

^^ wow, that must be a new thing. fuck that then, I'll never move back to NC as long as that law is on the books. Same reason I won't live in VA. If I ever get a job in DC, I'll live in MD by default.

I guess it wouldn't have to be that new of a thing. I haven't held a NC driver's license in ~9 years, even though I lived in NC for 3 of those (and kept my FL residency after I switched).

I have never heard of a law like that anywhere else, except maybe VA. They have a provision for felony speeding with a similar threshold, although I'm not sure if it's mandatory. I try my best to not even set foot in the entire state commonwealth.


[Edited on April 9, 2014 at 5:33 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2014 5:30:20 PM

Key point:

Quote :

"Under North Carolina traffic laws, your driving privilege will be revoked for at least 30 days if you are convicted of:"

When you get a ticket, you are ACCUSED of driving 15 mph over the limit.

When you get a lawyer to go to trial for you, and that lawyer gets your charges reduced, you are NOT convicted of the original offense.

They don't take your license on the spot. You get to have your day in court, where it's your word against the LEO's.






HENCE


The long-standing good-ol boy system whereby police ticket drivers, drivers pay lawyers, lawyers pal up to judges and get charges reduced. Then lawyers become judges and it happens with the next batch.

[Edited on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2014 6:46:45 PM

right; it just means that you HAVE to take it to court. Seems counterproductive...why would they want to basically force everyone to go to court and get it reduced?

It also means that if you get a big ticket, like 30-over or something, you could really be screwed if you can't get it reduced to < 15-over. Sure, the vast majority of the time, either cops will write it up as 15-over on the spot, or it'll get reduced, or they'd at least grant you a PJC, but you're at the mercy of the system.

4/9/2014 6:58:19 PM

The last two speeding tickets I've gotten in NC have been in JoCo. But that figures; I'm from Smithfield. I've gotten an old high school acquaintance (Travis Wheeler) to take care of both of them, and they each cost me $400. The charges got reduced to improper equipment. He also got my ex-wife out of a speeding ticket for free, so I always try to throw money his way if I need an attorney. Woodruff, Reece, Fortner is a good choice (Gordon Woodruff has been one of my father's former clients, and my father is one of his). Another would be Martin Tetreault (again, bidness association with my father). I got at least a dozen more that I'm acquainted with.

4/10/2014 4:27:52 PM