In October my Peace Corps service ends (for real this time), and I'll be departing Benin for America. But like a lot of volunteers, I don't want to make it a straight shot. I'll be 30 next month; the window for bare-bones, hostel-staying, backpacking travel is coming to a close as I stare a probable (I hope) engagement and lifetime of employment in the face. So the girlfriend and I have been thinking about trip ideas. We both have pretty much the same dream trip in mind: India and Vietnam.

This trip appeals on many levels. Initial research shows it to be affordable. We're both devotees to the cuisine. For me, there's the oddly pleasing symmetry to it: my family started with the Peace Corps when my Dad joined in frustration that he couldn't be drafted to go to Vietnam, and India is the post-service trip he always wanted to take. Plus, I mean, come on. It's India and Vietnam.

In the course of contemplating (or just fantasizing) about this trip, we have started going to our most trusted sources of information. So I ask you, Wolf Web, you who have helped me so many times before, you who sucked up so much of my time in the past decade:

Any of you fuckers been to India or Vietnam? Got any tips? Things I shouldn't miss or should definitely avoid?

1/22/2015 9:08:54 AM

I watched the Top Gear Vietnam and India specials. As well as Idiot Abroad in India. The places they went seemed pretty cool. Not sure if you can find those to watch, but that's all I got.

1/22/2015 10:09:16 AM

um, good luck and have fun!

1/22/2015 11:09:27 AM

Tips:

Well, for India, a lot of Western female tourists have been gang-raped in the past few years, so just keep that in mind. Don't go hiking alone in the wilderness/mountains. Also, people will stare, especially at your gf, like 60/60/24/7, so just be aware of that.

As for Vietnam, be mindful of the scams that you can be trapped into (not so much in India). If you find yourself in a dark alley surrounded by thugs, give them all you have. Don't resist, as you will probably end up getting stabbed.

"Situational Awareness", learn it, live it, love it.

1/22/2015 11:09:57 AM

^ pretty intense scenarios


Also another pointer, in the event you are on a gameshow, the TV host is lying to you! Just rely on your own knowledge - don't trust him.

[Edited on January 22, 2015 at 11:45 AM. Reason : ]

1/22/2015 11:44:01 AM

1/22/2015 12:36:05 PM

Angkor Wat in Cambodia is one of my dream destinations

[Edited on January 22, 2015 at 12:45 PM. Reason : k]

1/22/2015 12:37:18 PM

wat

1/22/2015 1:09:46 PM

Vietnam will love you Americans. Don't give in to the price. Low ball that shit. A meal of pho should only be a dollar.

1/22/2015 2:49:18 PM

oh yeah

haggle and negotiate every fucking where

if something sells for x you will be starting easily at 2x or 3x if you are white.

1/22/2015 3:49:21 PM

Fellow Vietnamese here. I go just about every year. Ask away.

Quote :

"A meal of pho should only be a dollar."

Not quite that cheap but you're correct about food being very inexpensive.

1/22/2015 7:51:31 PM

what part of India? That has a huge influence on your experience.

1/22/2015 11:21:22 PM

Loved India, will be going back sooner than later. Was working in Hyderabad which is in the middle of the desert.

But vacationed in the "golden triangle" going through New Delhi, Agra, Jaipur, Udaipur and Varanasi. It was amazing. We all had an unbelievable time. You can stay in palaces (literally) for ~$80 a night in almost every city. Don't buy anything on the streets, it's all garbage. Don't buy anything in a shop where you see another foreigner, it's a dead giveaway that it's a tourist shop (aka prices are 50-80% higher).

Varanasi is an incredible experience, but bring dust masks because it's seriously awful dirty. We were hacking by day two. Still worth it for sure, but be aware that its a filthy city.

When I go back I'll probably travel the coast next, and then return a third time to explore the mountains in the north.

1/23/2015 2:43:21 AM

Quote :

" Also, people will stare, especially at your gf, like 60/60/24/7"

Quote :

"haggle and negotiate every fucking where if something sells for x you will be starting easily at 2x or 3x if you are white."

Quote :

" it's seriously awful dirty. We were hacking by day two. Still worth it for sure, but be aware that its a filthy city."

By the time we make this trip we'll have lived in Benin for 3+ years. These are things we're used to. We do understand, though, that the men in India are a lot more grabby with women than even the Beninese are.

Quote :

"what part of India? That has a huge influence on your experience."

We're still 9+ months out from this trip, so obviously everything is very tentative, but we've been toying with a big arc around the country. Fly into Goa, then trains to Mumbai, Udaipur, Agra, Varanasi, Kolkata, Darjeeling, and then back to Kolkata to fly to Vietnam. Overnight trains where possible (and from my research it seems to always be possible)

As for Vietnam we're hoping to do less frenetic traveling, so whichever city we fly into (Hanoi or HCMC) we'll probably hang out at that end of the country. Right now Hanoi seems to be winning based on advice and the proximity to Ha Long Bay. soc33com, you got any preference North vs. South?

1/23/2015 3:54:04 AM

I'm from Saigon, so I'm biased, but I would go with the South. You can do the Ha Long bay/Hanoi tour in 4 days for like $200. The South/Central Vietnam has better food/more things to see than the North. I might go in October also, depends on if I can get off from work.

1/23/2015 10:49:12 AM

mmmm yummy food. Out of all the SEA cuisines, I would say vietnamese is the best. I like the mildness.

1/23/2015 2:23:03 PM

I'm doing Hanoi/Ha Long Bay in March. Really looking forward to it.

1/25/2015 12:34:42 AM

People I've talked to elsewhere are surprisingly passionate on the North/South question in Vietnam, but in the end I think we're going to throw up our hands and just do both. We'll fly into the north and hang out for a couple of days, and then we've found a hostel/tour thing that does Ha Long bay and gets us about halfway down the coast (at which point we'll train to Saigon).

Normally I'm suspicious of tours but my research so far is full of warnings about scams, and I know these people to be legit. After the shit show of India I'm not sure I'll have the mental wherewithal to handle setting things up in a non-English-speaking country, so I'm willing to let a reputable company handle the details at least as far as Hoi An

1/26/2015 2:46:27 AM

Which Halong Bay company are you using? There are so many options.

1/26/2015 3:32:08 PM

OK, let me recant what I said earlier and point out that anything I say is super tentative at this point. I'm now looking at a range of options, but the one I was talking about yesterday was with Vietnam Backpacker Hostels. It's Australian run, and I heard a solid review from an acquaintance.

The downside to me is that it seems geared towards a younger, more party-oriented crowd. I'm not old and I like parties fine, but I want to remember Vietnam. My guess is that after crossing the Indian subcontinent and making two West-East flights that will jet lag me retarded, I won't have a lot of spare energy to get wild. Besides, I'm trying to settle down now. Getting into a drinking contest with Australian twenty year olds is the sort of thing I'm hoping to put behind me. Maybe.

Plus side, it's dirt cheap, the accommodations are OK, they handle transport and buying tickets and shit, and I like most of the sites on the tour.

1/27/2015 2:23:22 AM

South. But I'm also bias because I was born just outside of uncle Ho's city (Saigon). And if you have any Vietnamese friends from the south, they will all tell you we all hate the northerners.

Unless you can share a room with some people you trust, I would avoid staying at a hostel. The good hotels are so inexpensive that there is no sense in trying to share a room with strangers to save you $20/night. I have seen some sketchy foreigners while in the backpacker's district. I get the appeal though...$20/night at a hostel or TWICE as much in a decent hotel...but when you think about it; it's only $40, you pay over $100 here in some danky hotel 10 miles from any place fun. In Saigon, you can stay at a safe/clean hotel for about $50 and walk a minute into the fun areas. The Bui Vien area is awesome for bars/clubs and every night it's a block party but you can still find some chill spots. Beers are a dollar; mixed drinks a dollar (BOGO sometimes). Street food is legit if your stomach can handle it.

OH yeah, make sure to bring ear plugs because it gets noisy very early in the morning regardless of where you stay. You'll hear a lot of horn honking. People in Vietnam get up way before 7AM to start their day.

1/30/2015 9:27:06 AM

Quote :

"there is no sense in trying to share a room with strangers to save you $20/night."

When you're on a budget of around $50 a day, I assure you there is sense in it. Our budget is backpacker level, alas. We can deal with a fair amount of sketchiness.

As to our stomachs -- and to noise, for that matter -- by this time we'll have been living in Benin for three years. That's three years of eating fly-covered fish jerky, room-temperature chicken, and goat offal served by the side of the road. Three years of nonstop motorcycle traffic and all-night loudspeaker parties outside my window. Vietnamese get up early, OK; Beninese people don't sleep at night.|

Still, though, thanks for the tips. Definitely looking forward to the South, but the North seems unavoidable. Ha Long Bay was pretty much how I sold the idea to my girlfriend.

2/3/2015 5:51:23 AM

After a fair amount of research I have come up with the following tentative schedule:

INDIA (approx. 3 weeks)

Day 1-3: Goa
Day 4: Train to Mumbai
Day 5-6: Mumbai
Day 7-9: Udaipur
Day 10-11: Agra.
Day 12-14: Varanasi
Day 15: Spend the day in Kolkata but we're really only hear to catch
the next overnight, to a town called Siliguri.
Day 16: We're only in Siliguri because it's on the way to Darjeeling.
Day 17: Take the "toy train" to Darjeeling
Day 18-19: Relax in Darjeeling.
Day 20: Combination of jeep and overnight train to Kolkata.
Day 21-22: Kolkata, flying out to Hanoi

VIETNAM (approx. 2.5 weeks)

Day 23-24: Hanoi.
Day 25-26: Ha Long Bay.
Day 27-28: More Hanoi (read: more eating)
Day 29-31: Various national parks as our tour works its way south.
Day 32-35: Various other sights as our tour continues to Hoi An,
about halfway down the country on the coast.
Day 37: Rest in Hoi An, take the train down to Ho Chi Minh City / Saigon
Day 38-39: Saigon and environs.
Day 40: Fly to San Diego.

India is all us on our own, and all overnight trains between cities. The first half of the Vietnam trip is (hopefully) part of this tour:

http://www.vietnambackpackerhostels.com/trips/multi-destination-packages/epic-adventure/

I'm normally not a package tour guy, but after a month of crossing India on our own I think it will be a welcome break to leave all the haggling and arranging to pros.

Thoughts?

3/18/2015 8:17:53 AM

pretty solid India itinerary. Not sure what you want to see in Mumbai but note that traffic is terrible and you may not be able to go to each POI in a reasonable time. I would recommend finding a daily tour bus to help you manage the sightseeing and get you around quickly. There are many English speaking tours to choose from.

I assume your only purpose for Agra is the Taj Mahal? If so, the same recommendation as above. A tour group will help you get in quickly and most likely for cheaper (non-Indians will pay substantially more for entrance).

You can also arrange for a private car through your hotel with an English speaking driver if you prefer to do Mumbai and Agra privately. I have had great experiences with this method. Benefit is you can take as much time as you want and customize your tour.

You're probably aware but Darjeeling will be chilly mid to late October. The train wont have heat so be prepared. And try to sit closer to the back - the engine will blow the whistle very often and it is very loud.

No interest in Delhi? There are many landmarks including UNESCO World Heritage sites like Humayun's Tomb and the Red Fort. The Lotus Temple is also worth a visit.

[Edited on March 18, 2015 at 10:30 AM. Reason : a]

3/18/2015 10:26:10 AM

I just got back from Hanoi. Really loved it. A friend is going in a few days so I sent them a long email with advice. Might as well copy and paste it here as you could find some of it useful.

Quote :

"I really loved Hanoi. I know a lot of people like Ho Chi Minh City more but I've also heard that Hanoi is a lot less westernized, which is what I was going for. I'm not big on organized tours, but one of the best things I did in Hanoi was this: http://www.hanoistreetfoodtour.com/ No need to book in advance, just walk over to 74 Hang Bac before the tour time. Our guide was a woman who went by Cherry and she was amazing. We spent nearly 4 hours bouncing from place to place. You may want to have your hotel arrange a taxi for you from the airport. It's not a huge deal, but there is a lot of funny business that goes on with cab operators there so it can be good to have some peace in mind with that when you first arrive. Speaking of hotels, I'm assuming you've already got that arranged, but like everything else in Vietnam they are ridiculously cheap. I stayed in two pretty nice places (Hanoi Guesthouse and Tu Lihn Palace II, the latter was the best of the two) for $20 a night. Depending on how long you are going to be there, you may want to look into doing a trip to Halong Bay. Most people who visit Hanoi go there, but it takes nearly two full days (you can do a day trip but I don't think it's worth it because the drive to the port is nearly 4 hours each way) so it's probably not worth it if you are in Hanoi for less than 4 days. I went through http://www.cristinacruise.com/ but a lot of the operators are interchangeable and your hotel can probably recommend a decent one. I'm sure you've already read about how chaotic the streets are, and if you've traveled in many other Asian countries you are probably already prepared for it, but it is definitely madness in the Old Quarter. A constant stream of scooters and cars with the sidewalks usually completely blocked by vendors and parked scooters. You just walk in the street and try to be predictable with your movements. Learning to cross the street took a few minutes, but basically you just have to confidently make your way across and everyone flows around you. All part of the fun. The Old Quarter is great to walk around in because for the most part each street is focused on selling a different good. There's so much activity going on. Hoan Kiem Lake is very nice to walk around. It sounds kind of dumb but the water puppet show at the northeast corner of the lake was actually pretty cool. A couple restaurants I'd highly recommend: Bun Bo Nam Bo located at 67 Hang Dieu Pho Bat Dan at 49 Bat Dan My favorite thing to do as in most any city was just to walk around and eat and drink, but I hit most of the main tourist things as well. They are all within walking distance of the old quarter. Also, everything is so cheap there's no need to even think about money. Hoa Lo Prison: Kind of amusing because it focuses primarily on when Vietnamese freedom fighters were held there by the French, briefly mentioning the American war and making it seem as though it was a luxurious fun-filled experience for American pilots where they got to play basketball and chess all the time. They also have John McCain's flight suit on display which is pretty great. Temple of Literature: temple of Confucius which also had the first Vietnamese national university Ngoc Son Temple: On Hoan Kiem Lake, I think this is the most famous and visited of the temples in Hanoi Vietnam Military History Museum: Fairly large museum with a lot of exhibits on various conflicts over the centuries and a bunch of planes on display outside, mainly ones they captured from us Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum: I didn't get to go inside to see "Uncle Ho" because it closes at 12:00 every day (also like most things in the city is closed on Monday), but I'm not too broken up about it because the poor guy had in his will that he wanted to be cremated and instead they put his body on display for the masses Ho Chi Minh Museum: Next to the mausoleum, also closes at 12:00 I believe. Fairly interesting, again costs virtually nothing. One Pillar Pagoda: small Buddhist temple beside the Ho Chi Minh museum and mausoleum Thang Long Royal Citadel: The old imperial citadel Den Quan Thahn: Taoist temple on West Lake Truan Quoc Pagoda: temple near West Lake There is also a night market Friday-Sunday, but I missed most of it. Oh, and the BEST thing, how could I forget, Bia Hoi Corner, an intersection in the Old Quarter where locals and tourists alike hang out all night drinking cheap beer amidst the chaos. Corner of Luong Ngoc Quyen and Ta Hien. If you want to buy things it's a great place to shop. I got some new shoes and a couple nice scarves for like $30 total and I still probably got ripped off. You negotiate over everything though because the original price will probably be insanely high. Everyone on the street will be trying to sell you something so be ready to politely yet firmly say no over and over. "

3/18/2015 6:44:44 PM

Quote :

"Not sure what you want to see in Mumbai but note that traffic is terrible and you may not be able to go to each POI in a reasonable time."

Truth be told, Mumbai is only on there for two reasons:

1) It is a good stopping point between Goa and Udaipur
2) We want to say we've hung out in Mumbai.

We don't really have any sites we want to see there. Probably just hang out and eat. This is as much a food tour as anything.

Quote :

"I assume your only purpose for Agra is the Taj Mahal?"

Yeah, plan is arrive Agra, see the fort, sleep, see the Taj, then get the hell out of there. Hoping to get to the Taj real early in the day. I'll look into tour options.

Thanks for the information about Darjeeling and the train. Hot or cold, that's one of the parts I'm most excited about.

Quote :

"No interest in Delhi?"

With much more money I'd be interested, but the budget is tight and so places had to get cut somewhere. Several volunteers who have passed through Delhi recently said it was one of their least favorite parts of India, and based on that, Delhi got the ax. Other than the obvious (Taj), we're really not so much interested in specific sites.

---

Vulcan -- great info, thanks! Definitely gonna look into the food tour and some of the sites you mentioned.

3/19/2015 9:49:52 AM