How many TWWers have made the transplant? I'm in the process of potentially accepting a job offer in the city (SoMa), or rather, it's a possibility right now.

Advice on how to make this transition? What neighborhoods have you lived in, or would recommend? Any advice on how to find and acquire housing besides a million emails on Craigslist to roomshares? Any thoughts on the cost of living?

2/23/2015 11:50:59 PM

I work in SF, but live in Jack London Square in Oakland. I moved here from San Diego in 2007. Personally, I find the City to be a little overrated and definitely overpriced, but there are definitely nice parts that are livable. It really is going to depend on your salary as to what you can afford, but the median 1BR rental is around $3500 a month right now, so be prepared for a huge sticker shock coming from pretty much anywhere else. If you want 'amenities' like a W/D, dishwasher, or a parking spot, it only goes up from there. I honestly love JLS in Oakland as it has much better weather and I can be in DTSF in 12 mins on BART, but if you want to be in the City proper, SOMA/South Beach are great, as is Hayes Valley and parts of the Mission. The older parts of the city which used to be cool like Pac Heights and North Beach are actually less popular than they used to be, as everyone wants to be near a BART line or have quick access down the Peninsula to where more jobs are. If you're not going to be making a ton of money, the Inner Sunset is a decent neighborhood, but in general, the Avenues out towards the beach are pretty depressing and bland.

As far as actually finding housing? I can only wish you the best of luck. Prepare for open houses with 30+ people clawing all over each other. TBH, I've had zero luck with Craigslist since moving here. Every place I've lived in the Bay Area I've found from some form of human connection I had IRL as opposed to the internet.

Overall, I have toyed with the idea of moving back down to Southern CA, up to Seattle, or even out to Hawaii over the past few years, but I would take a huge pay cut and I'm honestly pretty content with my life here. Also, it feels like I've been here so long that I'd feel weird leaving at this point, and I'm not in a hurry to uproot my life. From what I've noticed is that people tend to either love SF and the Bay Area or they hate it and want to move back after a year or two. The only real way to know is to find out yourself. Good luck!

2/24/2015 1:48:10 AM

Good friend of mine moved out there about 3 years ago. He and his wife seem to like it, but both are workaholics and make good money. He complains about the cost of housing and retarded taxes, but is happy with the apartment he has somewhere in the downtown area. I think he said he pays between $5-6k/mo for it. Neither them has a car as they both work close to their place.

They lived and worked in Manhattan before moving to SF so they were used to city life with no cars, eating out a lot, hustle and bustle, noise, etc. I think the fact that SF is relatively clean was a big appeal to him as opposed to NYC. He does tell me that he'd like to eventually own a home and have kids which he does not see happening in SF. His wife loves big cities though so I think they are stuck with the urban lifestyle.

I personally think SF is a beautiful city, but I would never live in CA or NY due to taxes alone.

2/24/2015 1:38:07 PM

Some pointers:

The main shitty area in the core is called the Tenderloin and is north of SoMa south of Nob Hill. The neighborhood north of Nob Hill is called Russian Hill (http://burritojustice.com/islands-of-sf/). These areas are relatively nice, but higher than average rent for the city, which is already fucking expensive if you are used to Raleigh prices. If you live in an expensive downtown area of Raleigh or have a McMansion in Wakefield you'll still pay double in SF for 700 sqft. I lived in Russian hill and spent $2200 for a 500 sqft place. It's more expensive now, from what I can tell.

Keeping a car is expensive, add at least $200 a month extra to keep a car. Getting to it and driving somewhere in the city is hard. A lot of neighborhoods have no parking, so when visiting a friend it's much better to Uber to where they live, or take the Muni, provided it isn't raining--if it rains you are not getting on public transit in a reasonable time, and enjoy your $40 commute home. I'd recommend selling a car if you have two cars. Having a car for me was a must, because some times you are going to feel trapped in that city and it's like you never see anything but the few blocks you live or work in. It's nice to be able to drive 3 hours to Tahoe, or many of the other natural areas if you are into that kind of thing.

If you live in Russian Hill like I did and work in SoMa be prepared--prepared to see a guy jacking off on the Muni, a guy running around naked in the street, and people shooting heroin in the open. We saw someone take a shit in the middle of the grass in front of Embarcadero the first hour in the city as I was showing my wife what a beautiful place it is--if you are used to cities this probably isn't a big deal. However, if your family is sheltered it's best to be aware of that stuff before exposing granny to a homeless dude jerking off on the MUNI.

Finding housing is a nightmare as mentioned above. The top pick I had was a house in Noe Valley, we turned in our application only to be outbid by a guy from Facebook that paid rent up front for a year above the asking price. Living in Oakland is probably a great idea. I stayed a month in Rockridge after I moved away. It didn't seem that bad to get to SoMa from the BART.


Things I miss: Laying in the grass at Washington Square or Mission Delores on a work day. Walking to work over Nob Hill and seeing Alcatraz. Talking about languages at the bar with Russians. Having a coconut at Ocean Beach.

[Edited on February 25, 2015 at 1:34 AM. Reason : -]

2/25/2015 1:34:16 AM

Cost of living is absolutely insane, so hopefully you'll be making enough money for the move to make sense. Finding an apartment is a nightmare, and beware of scams on CL apartment listings to steal your identity and/or money. I currently live in Lower Nob Hill, which is a fancy name for Upper Tenderloin, which you should stay away from (for apartments, at least; there are some really great restaurants and bars in the TL). Moving to Nob Hill proper in a couple of weeks. Generally, I'd just recommend finding a neighborhood with good access to transit and ditching your car if it's feasible–it's not worth driving 99% of the places you'll want to go inside the city, so you'll just walk, bus, or uber everywhere. Oh, and plan on spending 10x per square foot what you do in Raleigh.

General lifestyle is a big factor in finding a place to live, too. Are you right out of school? Single? Married? Have kids? Have pets? Do you want to go out a lot, etc.?

2/25/2015 11:00:38 AM

One thing I'll say is that besides the insane cost of living, the Bay Area is a really fantastic place to live, as long as you enjoy good food, wine, hiking, urban/city living, and diversity. If you are a homebody type that isn't into walking around and checking out new experiences, it's a colossal waste of money. If you're an introvert that doesn't like meeting people from all over the world, you're not going to enjoy it very much either. The more you resist and wish it was like places back home, the worse time you're going to have.

2/25/2015 11:39:59 AM

Quote :

"Keeping a car is expensive, add at least $200 a month extra to keep a car. Getting to it and driving somewhere in the city is hard. A lot of neighborhoods have no parking, so when visiting a friend it's much better to Uber to where they live, or take the Muni, provided it isn't raining--if it rains you are not getting on public transit in a reasonable time, and enjoy your $40 commute home. I'd recommend selling a car if you have two cars. Having a car for me was a must, because some times you are going to feel trapped in that city and it's like you never see anything but the few blocks you live or work in. It's nice to be able to drive 3 hours to Tahoe, or many of the other natural areas if you are into that kind of thing."

Likely I will sell my car in NC and go without. The idea for me is to be able to live in the city or Oakland, and commute to work reliably. Don't really mind ditching the vehicle. Also the being able to drive into the wildness is a nice point...

Quote :

"If you live in Russian Hill like I did and work in SoMa be prepared--prepared to see a guy jacking off on the Muni, a guy running around naked in the street, and people shooting heroin in the open. We saw someone take a shit in the middle of the grass in front of Embarcadero the first hour in the city as I was showing my wife what a beautiful place it is--if you are used to cities this probably isn't a big deal. However, if your family is sheltered it's best to be aware of that stuff before exposing granny to a homeless dude jerking off on the MUNI."

I saw some similar things in San Diego and Seattle. I'm young and single so I'll be able to put on a dead stare and keep moving through that stuff.

Quote :

"Cost of living is absolutely insane, so hopefully you'll be making enough money for the move to make sense."

Still waiting on the formal offer, but they want me to be able to live in the city (apparently most of the office does) without "being in a closet". I'm young and honestly the move would be less about money and more about career and personal advancement--with HOPEFULLY at least a net positive on the money.

Quote :

"General lifestyle is a big factor in finding a place to live, too. Are you right out of school? Single? Married? Have kids? Have pets? Do you want to go out a lot, etc.?"

25, so been out of college for three a while. Single. No pets. I'm fairly social and adventurous--really enjoy exploring new parts of cities, eating out, bar crawls, etc. Density of things, and ability to have public transport, really appeals to me. Was planning on moving to Seattle for a while with similar intentions.

Quote :

"One thing I'll say is that besides the insane cost of living, the Bay Area is a really fantastic place to live, as long as you enjoy good food, wine, hiking, urban/city living, and diversity. If you are a homebody type that isn't into walking around and checking out new experiences, it's a colossal waste of money. If you're an introvert that doesn't like meeting people from all over the world, you're not going to enjoy it very much either. The more you resist and wish it was like places back home, the worse time you're going to have."

That all sounds great to me! Honestly, I'm pretty sure I will fall head over heels. This move wouldn't necessarily have any bottom line other than a fresh start, great experiences, career advancement, etc.

A couple questions I have:

So say I'm working in SoMa. Any thoughts on Mission, especially the East side (away from Civic Center and the Tenderloin border)? I've heard it compared to Brooklyn a lot. I've looked at a lot of potential free rooms in apartments there. Seems to be plenty of SoMA startup kids in that area as well. I was also looking at Cole Valley (and that general direction--Lower Haight I guess?), Portero Hill, etc, but I don't know anything about the BART and Muni enough to say if there's any problems with the location. Any other neighborhoods you recommend for a first timer? I'm not so much bothered by a little rabble, but definitely want to avoid Tenderloin. No where that I would feel genuinely unsafe to live.

2/25/2015 3:31:28 PM

The Mission is cool, but parts of it are downright dangerous. I've seen a dead body on the ground near 22nd/Shotwell and there are periodic drive by shootings that happen. Focus on Mission Dolores in your search, the closer to Valencia street the better. Cole Valley is a little sleepy for my tastes and kind of a PITA if you need to get to BART, but I have friends who like it a lot. If you have questions about Oakland, shoot me a PM. I've lived in nice places, the straight up hood of West Oakland, and other places in between- you definitely get the most bang for your buck.

2/25/2015 3:49:45 PM

Thanks for the tip on Valencia and Mission Dolores. I've been looking in that area and it seems nicer, or at least fun.

I've consider living in Oakland, but it would need to be convenient to public transportation, cheap(er, relatively, to the city). I think I'd like to try and find a place in the city--for the experience, which maybe seems cheesy, but hey.

But yeah, I will take any and all neighborhood recs, including those in Oakland.

Also, if anyone has advice on what to ask for in relocation benefits, I should probably learn more about that.

2/25/2015 5:46:54 PM

The City is great; it's just insanely expensive for what you get. Unless you will be pulling in 100K+, you aren't going to be able to have your own place, so a roommate situation is inevitable. You can save up to 40% by living in Oakland, but that number is quickly shrinking as rents have gone up 25% in the last year. Oakland used to be dirt cheap when I moved here in 2007 and now the nicest parts aren't that much less than SF. If you want a comparable lifestyle to SF, you do need to live near a BART station and a commercial drag. Fortunately, there's several neighborhoods in Oakland which fit the bill. I'd focus on Lake Merritt (Cleveland Heights, Grand Lake), Adams Point, Temescal (a little too grungy and hipsterish, but that's changing), Rockridge (a little too many strollers and kids for my liking), Piedmont Avenue, and Jack London Square. I've been in JLS since 2013, but I'll probably stay for another year at most, as there's no rent control. You could also live in Uptown, which is basically the Mission of Oakland, but I think it's about the same as SF these days in terms of rent. I'd avoid West Oakland, since you don't know the lay of the land, or what's safe or not, and I wouldn't even bother looking anywhere in East Oakland. The nice thing about Oakland, aside from warmer weather and less fog, is that having a car is way less of a hassle, so weekend trips to Napa/Tahoe/Yosemite/Shasta/Big Sur/etc are easily done.

2/25/2015 9:15:52 PM

When will the inconoclast culture that makes SF different from say NYC become completely washed out by the cost of living?

[Edited on February 26, 2015 at 10:52 AM. Reason : w]

2/26/2015 10:48:48 AM

As long as the number of new jobs outstrips the number of new apartments by several orders of magnitude, the cost of living will continue to go up. It'll probably take another tech industry crash for things to even out. It will be interesting to see if there's a point that tech companies move out of the bay area because the cost of living is so ridiculous, though. i.e. I have no idea how far it would have to get for Facebook, Google, etc. to say "Fuck it, we're moving to Kansas."

2/26/2015 11:06:34 AM

like when investors realize snapchat and other stupid phone games are pointless for anyone older than 22 with any money and not worth 13billion dollars

[Edited on February 26, 2015 at 11:21 AM. Reason : .]

2/26/2015 11:16:06 AM

^^ It seems even worse in Mountain View. I was just there and places were like $1000 more a month than what I paid when I lived in SF. I think people are commuting to the peninsula from SF to save money! I thought when I lived there the city was more expensive, but I think it's reverse now.

Where do you work in the bay area? I want to move back so I can get a house with a fruit tree and a yard.

[Edited on February 26, 2015 at 12:21 PM. Reason : a]

2/26/2015 12:20:33 PM

Depending on the company, a lot of people live in SF because they have a bus that whisks them away from their trendy/cool neighborhood in SF to their job in SV. The Yahoo! bus definitely comes to JLS, but I can't say I've actually seen Google bus though.

2/26/2015 1:05:26 PM

Yeah, the corner I lived on had stops for Ebay, Google, and Yahoo. One time the Yahoo bus broke down as the Google bus was pulling up. Funniest juxtaposition ever--I kept laughing, but no one involved thought it was near as funny as I did.

2/26/2015 1:12:13 PM

I lived in Martinez when I was a kid. We had a nice view of an oil refinery.

2/28/2015 8:26:04 AM

2/28/2015 11:38:23 PM

I moved here about 9 months ago. If you're in tech, you're probably making the best move for your career that you could possibly make. Congrats. Feel free to email me with any questions -- my username at gmail.

PS, all above comments are true. The cost of living here is insane. You should factor in two things, though...

* A: you do not need a car. This will end up saving you about 1k a month. Being able to walk to work will also make you a very happy and cheerful person. Highway commutes make people dead inside. This is something most people don't fully understand until they live it.

Quote :

"Likely I will sell my car in NC and go without. The idea for me is to be able to live in the city or Oakland, and commute to work reliably. Don't really mind ditching the vehicle. Also the being able to drive into the wildness is a nice point..."

You can get a membership with Zipcar (90$ annually, includes insurance and gas, about $12/hour or $120/day for a car) or Getaround (no annual fee, slightly cheaper, you pay for gas). The problem with having a car in the city (or in Oakland to drive into the city) is that there is nowhere to park once you get here. Do not park a car on the street overnight if you have anything at all (a jacket, or a pair of shoes, or unopened mail, or anything), because a homeless person will break a window and take it.

* B: while the cost of rent is high, so are salaries. My housing cost went up a lot (about 500%), however my salary went up too. Overall, I net 15k more than I did in Raleigh.


[Edited on March 2, 2015 at 1:48 AM. Reason : PS]

3/2/2015 1:33:57 AM

^

Indeed. My salary more than doubled and I made damn good money in Raleigh.

Re: Car

I found that it was cheaper if you had a car and you took two weekend trips a month. Zip Car/Getaround are expensive.

3/2/2015 2:29:39 PM

I was in SF this past week and yesterday i witnessed a purse snatching followed by a police chase and beat down. In broad daylight on Market St.

Everywhere i turn some crazy homeless person was yelling or moaning or touching or dead around me. One guy stumbled by who was probably 80 yrs old and had just shit his pants.

You guys need to do something about your homeless population, its out of control. It's a real moral travesty.

3/13/2015 1:57:31 AM

its pretty much like that all the way down the coast.

3/13/2015 9:44:45 AM

yeah, it's definitely more of a West Coast phenomenon. It's equally bad in Honolulu, LA, Portland, Seattle, LA, etc. I chalk it up to nicer weather and socially liberal politics.

3/13/2015 10:46:03 AM

Yeh, i live in Boston and visit NYC every so often and its still quite a contrast. I guess the weather is a big factor. I sure as shit wouldn't want to be homeless in Boston.

3/13/2015 2:50:03 PM

Work in SF, live in Oakland.

Not a big fan of SF. I do like Oakland though.

3/13/2015 8:18:13 PM

Quote :

"I was in SF this past week and yesterday i witnessed a purse snatching followed by a police chase and beat down. In broad daylight on Market St."

I call bullshit. There's no police on Market Street.

3/13/2015 11:16:37 PM

Nope, its true. The cops were across the street and everyone yelled at them to get their attention so they'd come over. The weird part is that the cops dragged the couple with them so they could help them find and ID the guy. I was walked like 15 steps behind watching the whole thing. When they got close, the snatcher tried to run but the cops tackled him and pinned him on the ground. They were clear about not using much violence and in their communication. The guy resisted a bit, but the cops were very clear and spoke in english and spanish and told him to stop resisting and to give them his hands, etc. Seemed pretty text book. Lots of onlookers.

3/14/2015 2:50:42 PM

Not to derail the thread, but is anyone here in San Jose? I'll be there for at least a few weeks this summer.

3/14/2015 11:42:28 PM

have fun finding decent bbq there

3/15/2015 6:56:50 PM

I'd say good BBQ is about as difficult to find as people who care about college basketball out here. You learn to live with it though

3/16/2015 10:37:32 PM

Stop shipping them to California.

http://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-some-cities-paid-homeless-people-just-enough-to-move-to-California

3/18/2015 10:41:31 AM