There I said it [/thread]

#ALM

11/10/2015 1:27:31 AM

Quote :

"The next time someone says ‘all lives matter,’ show them these 5 paragraphs"

http://fusion.net/story/170591/the-next-time-someone-says-all-lives-matter-show-them-these-5-paragraphs/

11/10/2015 1:31:07 AM

I've read that and have a counter analogy I've brainstormed in the defence of #ALM that I'll be happy to share tomorrow. Now I'm getting too sleepy.

11/10/2015 1:33:20 AM

^^lol

11/10/2015 1:55:50 AM

Reddit post referenced above. Fuck daylight savings.

Quote :

".Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don’t get any. So you say “I should get my fair share.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” Now, that’s a wonderful sentiment — indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad’s smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn’t solve the problem that you still haven’t gotten any! The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out. That’s the situation of the “black lives matter” movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society. The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn’t work that way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn’t want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That’s not made up out of whole cloth — there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it’s generally not considered “news”, while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate — young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don’t treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don’t pay as much attention to certain people’s deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don’t treat all lives as though they matter equally. Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase “black lives matter” also has an implicit “too” at the end: it’s saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying “all lives matter” is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It’s a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means “only black lives matter,” when that is obviously not the case. And so saying “all lives matter” as a direct response to “black lives matter” is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem."

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 7:54 AM. Reason : a]

11/10/2015 7:53:38 AM

Quote :

"Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you get three. So you say “I should get more.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” So you counter with Dad privilege and stuff with zero basis in reality. Eventually dad relents and you get most of the meal and lots of attention and feel justified for nothing. Also the press is covering your meal for some reason."

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 8:17 AM. Reason : quote]

11/10/2015 8:17:17 AM

Quote :

Quote : "Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you get three. So you say “I should get more.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” So you counter with Dad privilege and stuff with zero basis in reality. Eventually dad relents and you get most of the meal and lots of attention and feel justified for nothing. Also the press is covering your meal for some reason."

11/10/2015 9:48:51 AM

Quote :

"Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you get three. So you say “I should get more.” And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, “everyone should get their fair share.” So you counter with Dad privilege and stuff with zero basis in reality. Eventually dad relents and you get most of the meal and lots of attention and feel justified for nothing. Also the press is covering your meal for some reason."

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 9:52 AM. Reason : .]

11/10/2015 9:51:48 AM

Quote :

Quote : Quote : quotequotequote

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 10:13 AM. Reason : quotequotequote]

11/10/2015 10:11:06 AM

Quote :

"young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don’t treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don’t pay as much attention to certain people’s deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don’t treat all lives as though they matter equally."

So it is the vague scapegoat "societies" fault if we don't have a national moment of silence after every drive-by shooting?

Or if it's gun violence shouldn't liberals blame guns? As long as people aren't held accountable for their actions right.

11/10/2015 10:15:58 AM

everybody just needs to hug it out

11/10/2015 10:17:51 AM

Quote :

"Imagine that you’re sitting down to dinner with your minority family, you reach for the food but it is too hot and you burn your hands. "Ouch it hurts" you say as you reach for it again and burn your hands repeatedly. "Why are my hands burnt, that isn't fair your hands aren't burnt" you cry to your white, male, cis-gendered, heterosexual, Christian friend sitting next to you. You reach the conclusion that the hot pot of food is racist because it only burns minority hands. You start a hashtag #MyHandsMatter claiming your victimhood brought upon yourself by your own decisions. Also anyone that disagrees is racist. "

11/10/2015 10:29:57 AM

- a huge number of pots burn hands without getting in trouble. its a growing number even though being a hot pot is safer than ever.
- certain hands are disproportionately burned by pots
- nobody cares about the plight of those certain hands
- a few people start a social movement, suddenly those certain hands have an outlet and their message is being heard
- the things that those certain hands want will benefit the other hands that are burnt
- fragile racists lose their god damn shit that these certain hands have a voice and have caused action. those certain hands should know their place and stop asking for things that will help everyone

11/10/2015 10:41:31 AM

it has definitely helped Baltimore, now with burnt hands being amputed at an all time high while the pots refuse to even get warm anymore.

11/10/2015 11:04:26 AM

11/10/2015 11:10:58 AM

Quote :

"- a huge number of pots burn hands without getting in trouble. its a growing number even though being a hot pot is safer than ever. - certain hands are disproportionately burned by pots - nobody cares about the plight of those certain hands - a few people start a social movement, suddenly those certain hands have an outlet and their message is being heard - the things that those certain hands want will benefit the other hands that are burnt - fragile racists lose their god damn shit that these certain hands have a voice and have caused action. those certain hands should know their place and stop asking for things that will help everyone"

LOL. As I put that together, I wanted something to represent a decision to commit crime, with a clear, fair penalty that applies, in this case I went with "touching a burning pot".

The liberal narrative would be just as you described it in this case. Accuse pot of racism, declare burnt hands are victims. Anyone without burnt hands benefitted from a privilege and it had nothing with their decision to not touch a burning pot.

11/10/2015 11:13:35 AM

Imagine that there is a foster family of four boys. Let's call them Jake, Peng, Jorge, and Tyrone. They live in a household with an abusive father who belts and reacts way out of line when one of the boys gets in trouble, regularly sending them to school with bruises and sometimes cuts.

While boys will be boys and even the first 3 do get in trouble time-to-time, Tyrone has behavioral issues that often puts him under the belt more often. Tyrone is often disruptive in class, bullies other kids, etc. Exasperating the issue is that while the other 3 live in fear of their father and have become submissive during everyday life accepting punishment when they are bad, Tyrone reacts the opposite and will frequently argue and fight his foster father only worsening his punishment after he has done something wrong.

Sure we could investigate the root cause of Tyrone's behavioral issue. Perhaps Tyrone before arriving at the foster home grew up in a crack house-hold with no discipline, perhaps he suffered major emotional trauma witnessing his biological parents gunned down in a drive-by. Maybe part of the reason Tyrone argue/fights with his foster-dad and gets the extra beating is because he's fed up with getting belted every time he gets in trouble. Perhaps one of the reasons Tyrone bullies other kids out of their lunches is because as punishment for getting caught stealing food, Tyrone's dad sends him to bed without dinner. Thus making Tyrone hungry and creating a vicious cycle of bullying for lunches then not getting dinner as punishment. Maybe Tyrone has ADHD and that is the cause of the bad behavior.

Regardless there are two separate issues at play. Tyrone's behavioral issues and the abusive father. Following the Black Lives Matter logic, only Tyrone's Behind Matter #TBM and Social services would only remove Tyrone from the household or the DA would only prosecute the dad for abusing Tyrone. When in reality All the Boy's Behinds Matter. The dad should be punished for abusing all the children, whom should all be removed from the household. The other three children getting abused shouldn't be overlooked just because they aren't the ones fighting or getting in trouble as much with the father and thus getting beat less.

#ALM

As synapse pointed out in the other thread with the Marshalls killing the boy after the white dad initially attempted to flee, the police brutality issue affects all races of people.

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 11:26 AM. Reason : aa]

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 11:27 AM. Reason : j]

11/10/2015 11:23:40 AM

^^ i assumed touching the pot was getting shot by police

so just remove the pot part of my post and read the rest about getting burned

11/10/2015 11:30:59 AM

Quote :

"Exasperating the issue"

11/10/2015 11:54:07 AM

guess I should have used "Worsening the Issue" since i didn't know how to spell the other word and didn't feel like taking time to look it up.

11/10/2015 11:56:49 AM

no shit, all lives matter. thanks captain obvious. what kind of retard thinks that's an actual retort to BLM? what kind of victim mentality weirdo feels the need to make this retort?

11/10/2015 12:51:02 PM

Perhaps you need to read my analogy above.

Our main focus should be police brutality not why do cops shoot unarmed black people with their hand up or some other false narrative portrayed in the media that cops are specifically targeting African-Americans as their punching bags.

11/10/2015 1:00:49 PM

no shit, black lives matter. thanks captain obvious. what kind of retard thinks that's an actual retort to a Bernie Sanders rally? what kind of victim mentality weirdo feels the need to make this retort?

11/10/2015 1:30:52 PM

that is retarded

11/10/2015 1:35:36 PM

lol so dumb

11/10/2015 1:41:57 PM

Hey guys, what's going on in....

11/10/2015 2:37:54 PM

God damn, we let them marry us (like 15 years ago in some states), what more do they want??

11/10/2015 3:00:12 PM

All of this started because charges were not filed repeatedly. People didn't even want a conviction but when one person kills another they should at least be charged with something. Not filing charges after an unarmed person is killed is essentially saying "that life doesn't matter"

People keep comparing these situations to gang violence, abortion, or murders of whites when all of those cases lead to chargers once the killer is found. BLM doesn't mean "only black lives matter", it means "black lives should matter too"

11/10/2015 3:37:16 PM

Quote :

"BLM doesn't mean "only black lives matter", it means "black lives should matter too""

So why leave it up to interpretation? Why not, Black Lives Matter Too...or more likely BlackLivesMatter2 (Electric Boogaloo) , no wait, that sounds like a sequel, go with the first one. To be honest, they haven't exactly left it open to interpretation, if you say "all lives matter" they get upset. So really they don't think all lives matter.

I'm going to say this is in fact one of those black and white issues (all or nothing), either all lives matter or no lives matter, there's no middle ground.

11/10/2015 3:46:09 PM

Quote :

"BLM doesn't mean "only black lives matter", it means "black lives should matter too""

It means "Black Lives Only Matter when a White Cop Murders them". It is essentially just another hashtag, outside of that a tool for Soros/Clinton to use to spread division in the echo chamber, as it becomes a poorly-worded umbrella term for any racially based issue.

11/10/2015 3:53:28 PM

Its assuming you're familiar with the explicit theme of american history where black lives DON'T matter. I could see how someone from a country where all lives have mattered historically would be extremely confused but americans should get it.

^Things that already matter aren't considered by this movement. Theres no need to say white lives matter because white lives ALREADY matter. Theres no need to say black lives lost to gang violence matter because they ALREADY matter. Its rare that someone other than a cop could kill someone and get away with it. Its the justice system that determines if something matters or not by filing charges.

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 3:57 PM. Reason : just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean its some sort of conspiracy]

11/10/2015 3:53:45 PM

^^ kudos for the thinly veiled "but what about black on black violence" that consistently misses the point.

11/10/2015 4:08:37 PM

11/10/2015 4:33:22 PM

Half of the problem is ya'll are giving way to much credit to "the movement" which isn't a "movement", primarily because there isn't "social injustice" to "overcome" hence we are trying to turn criminals into martyrs and create false narratives to justify outrage and riots. Just like the mizzou president getting fired for no reason. It's cute everyone wants to play social-justice-advocate but this isn't 1950 this is 2015... no matter how trendy it is to be offended.

Quote :

"kudos for the thinly veiled "but what about black on black violence" that consistently misses the point."

How does looking at the actual problem miss the point? The problem is liberal pussification makes it not "politically correct" to say what the actual problems are, meaning they don't get brought up or fixed. A random drunk racial slur isn't an epidemic, a tp noose in a bathroom isn't an epidemic, one cop shooting a criminal that assualts him isn't an epidemic, no matter how hard the liberal media tries to tell you it is.

I've referenced hood culture, fatherless families, and the choices that directly lead to these increased likelihoods of black and cop interactions. That isn't "sensitive" to the liberals though, so they want to blame "society" for the choices of others and maintain the "oppressed victim" narrative.

If you want to actually fix the "racist epidemic" of an unarmed black criminal getting killed by a white cop a few times a year, building a city-funded memorial for Michael Brown, Yelling at "society", and making divisive hashtags isn't going to do anything. (But it is exactly what George Soros/Clinton want)

[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 5:07 PM. Reason : problem not the right word there]

11/10/2015 5:04:34 PM

Quote :

"primarily because there isn't "social injustice" to "overcome" "

You sure?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/25/us/racial-disparity-traffic-stops-driving-black.html?_r=0

11/10/2015 5:11:49 PM

So black people commit more traffic violations?

11/10/2015 5:19:43 PM

Quote :

"All of this started because charges were not filed repeatedly. People didn't even want a conviction but when one person kills another they should at least be charged with something. Not filing charges after an unarmed person is killed is essentially saying "that life doesn't matter"

BULLSHIT on many occassions when a Grand Jury or investigation determined that the cop did act appropriately the looting and
pillaging started again or continued.

Remember the "Burn This Bitch Down" when the grand jury decided not to indict the officer involved in killing our civil rights
hero and martyr Michael Brown.

The "outrage" wasn't over not being convicted. The "crowds" would only have been happy had they gotten a guilty verdict from
a circus trial or they were allowed to perform a mob execution of the officer regardless of the facts surrounding the situation.

Quote :

"assuming you're familiar with the explicit theme of american history where black lives DON'T matter. I could see how someone from a country where all lives have mattered historically wo"

I can see plenty of examples where poor peoples lives don't matter regardless of race through history...

Quote :

"cute everyone wants to play social-justice-advocate but this isn't 1950 this is 2015... no matter how trendy it is to be offended"

LOL

Don't forget one of the triggers for the Mizzou protesting per the article today was some redneck saying a racial slur at a African-American club meeting and some instance in 2010 where some pranksters spread cotton balls outside of some building significant to the African-American population.



[Edited on November 10, 2015 at 6:05 PM. Reason : l]

11/10/2015 6:02:49 PM

no lives matter

is more like it

11/10/2015 6:09:54 PM

Quote :

"there isn't "social injustice" to "overcome" "

As a white male, you may genuinely believe this is the case in this country. Its hard to notice if you are not one of the oppressed and I applaud the growing number of white males who are on board with this because just like they can't understand the level of oppression in the country, no one else can understand how difficult it is for them to understand the level of oppression in this country.

Quote :

"It's cute everyone wants to play social-justice-advocate but this isn't 1950 this is 2015... no matter how trendy it is to be offended."

So just for clarification, you're acknowledging that social injustice is a real thing and happened in this country but also claiming it has completely disappeared somewhere between 1950 and 2015?

Quote :

"liberal pussification"

The fact that you have trashy vocabulary like this is not helping your argument. The default stereotype (and often wrong) is to say that anyone who says "alllivesmatter" is just ignorant but you provide more evidence for that default position when you use terms like these to explain yourself.

Quote :

""politically correct""

There is no such thing as "politically correct". Theres correct and then theres bigotry, mysogyny, racism, and homophobia. "Political correctness" is a term used by bigots, mysogynists, racists and homophobes to explain why they can legally suggest people different from them are inferior but society won't "approve" of these "truths".

Quote :

"I've referenced hood culture, fatherless families, and the choices that directly lead to these increased likelihoods of black and cop interactions."

you're correct here and these things are all more long-term results of systemic oppression. Every rational thinker knows the problems are much bigger than police.

Quote :

"If you want to actually fix the "racist epidemic" of an unarmed black criminal getting killed by a white cop a few times a year, building a city-funded memorial for Michael Brown, Yelling at "society", and making divisive hashtags isn't going to do anything. (But it is exactly what George Soros/Clinton want)"

This is true. I don't know what Clinton wants (besides votes)

Quote :

"BULLSHIT on many occassions when a Grand Jury or investigation determined that the cop did act appropriately the looting and pillaging started again or continued. "

Grand juries and police investigations of their friends aren't going to convince anyone when the same exact people have a long history of corruption. If you look further into that situation, and put yourself in the shoes of the residents, it will start to make sense. Everything about that case was handled in a unique way.

People in poor, black communities know about the process better than anyone and they know how quickly indictments happen for normal people. People are charged and indicted HOURS after alleged crimes. People just wanted to see the same process used for police.

Quote :

"The "outrage" wasn't over not being convicted. The "crowds" would only have been happy had they gotten a guilty verdict from a circus trial or they were allowed to perform a mob execution of the officer regardless of the facts surrounding the situation."

Grand juries are not trials, are not transparent, and people know this.

Quote :

" can see plenty of examples where poor peoples lives don't matter regardless of race through history..."

So you're trying to claim that historically speaking, poor americans are just as oppressed as black americans?

Right now, poor people's lives are accounted for by the justice system just as long as they aren't being taken by police officers. perhaps the ideal movement name would have been #copcrimesmatter.

11/10/2015 6:58:47 PM

If your slogan depends upon an "implicit" anything in order to be properly understood, then your slogan will be misunderstood by lots of people.

11/10/2015 7:07:14 PM

Quote :

"As a white male, you may genuinely believe this is the case in this country. Its hard to notice if you are not one of the oppressed and I applaud the growing number of white males who are on board with this "

According to Donald Trump it is White Christians being oppressed

11/10/2015 7:18:17 PM

Quote :

"As a white male, you may genuinely believe this is the case in this country. Its hard to notice if you are not one of the oppressed and I applaud the growing number of white males who are on board with this because just like they can't understand the level of oppression in the country, no one else can understand how difficult it is for them to understand the level of oppression in this country. "

Name one example of how people are "Oppressed" in this false-narrative you support so much?

There is a lingering wealth disparity based on historic racism in the past. This wealth, or lack thereof, is the best indicator to determine likelihood of police interaction. Wealth is the primary factor, not skin color. Poor people are more likely to commit a crime, and more likely to run from police. I know this is a shocker to the liberals with the bleeding hearts weeping over the memorial for civil rights martyr Michael Brown... but this is how the correlation goes:

-Black People are more likely to be poor
-Poor people are more likely to commit crime
-Criminals are more likely to have police interactions

Liberals connect "Black" with "Police", ignore "criminal", and call it a day, covering their ears and screaming "Racist" to any dissonance in the echo chamber. Then we put cops in an IMPOSSIBLE position to deal with criminals that are already taught to fear and hate them because of the liberal media machine. If it is a white cop on black suspect, the cop is racist until proven otherwise.

Sorry to tell all you wanna-be social media activists in the era of outrage culture. You can post hashtags in the echo chamber as much as you want. Present day Black people are not oppressed by anything other than their own actions and choices.

11/10/2015 7:38:53 PM

*Black Lives Matter More Than People Think

11/10/2015 7:40:49 PM

Quote :

"Its assuming you're familiar with the explicit theme of american history where black lives DON'T matter."

that's only been the explicit theme of American history during the last hundred years. In the 1800s, black lives were so highly valued (as a commodity) that this country fought a long civil war over them.

11/10/2015 8:22:41 PM

More like....black labor was valued....not their lives.

11/10/2015 9:26:23 PM

And black labor was only really valued b/c of their wages, or lack thereof

11/10/2015 9:28:08 PM

#blacklabormatters

let's see what kind of reaction that gets on social media.

11/10/2015 9:36:33 PM

The Civil War had a lot more to do with political reasons, cultural disparities (between agrarianism and industrialism), and regional wealth distribution than it ever had to do with slavery.
We just justify the war to ourselves by claiming it was for emancipating the slaves. It was the politicians playing to the masses....just like the hot button issues abortion and gay rights today.

11/11/2015 7:11:42 AM

The problem that I see with this movement that is very similar to the strong feminist movement in science during 2003-20013 is that it is starting to portray all white people (especially white men) as the enemy. I think that at some point, a leader on the BLM side needs to emerge to clarify that the specific intentions are to address police brutality and that this is not a white vs. black issue. Just like how the specific intentions of the Women in Science movement were to promote greater gender equality in the workplace.

[Edited on November 11, 2015 at 7:25 AM. Reason : dp]

11/11/2015 7:24:39 AM

Quote :

"The problem is that the statement “I should get my fair share” had an implicit “too” at the end: “I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else.” But your dad’s response treated your statement as though you meant “only I should get my fair share”, which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that “everyone should get their fair share,” while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out."

Unfortunately, that's not how most members present BLM, nor is it how others perceive it. Communicating a message clearly is a burden of the communicator, not the audience, sorry. And it seems that this explanation is coming from random redditor, so does this represent a little known official principle of the BLM groups?

I'm all for many/most of this movement's ideals (reducing police brutality, violence, etc.) and am not butthurt over the fact that such acts tend to happen at a higher rate to black people and thus the black community feels the need to speak up and stand out. I'm fine with that. But when it's presented as a black thing only or a black vs white, etc., then I'm not surprised by the resistance.

11/11/2015 9:12:09 AM