Do not tell the cops to shoot you.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article65357677.html

3/11/2016 10:02:07 AM

was that first shot before they got to the roadblock the shot from the FBI that the FBI lied about?

3/11/2016 10:06:51 AM

I don't give a crap about these people, but I didn't see justification for shooting. Did he reach or something? Then to continue shooting at the truck?

3/11/2016 10:12:15 AM

Dude said shoot me now.

3/11/2016 10:14:09 AM

The man could have decided to surrender when he stopped the first time. He could have surrendered the second time he stopped. He has a lengthy record of saying he won't be taken alive, he jumped out of the car with a gun on his person and did not intend on cooperating. Suicide by cop.

3/11/2016 10:58:48 AM

Having a firearm on your person is not a justifiable reason to use lethal force, unless said person is acting or communicating the intent to inflict harm and there is a reasonable belief the person intends to act on that threat.

So was it on his person, eg, a pocket or holster? Was he holding it in his hand?

[Edited on March 11, 2016 at 11:09 AM. Reason : .]

3/11/2016 11:08:37 AM

Quote :

"but I didn't see justification for shooting. Did he reach or something?"

the first shot while they are driving - no (assuming that was actually a shot, it sure sounded like it). the first shot that hit the window as he was getting out also doesn't look justified. forensics determined that this came from the FBI even though the FBI claimed they didn't fire. I wonder if the first shot was by the FBIhttp://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_agents_und.html

as for the shots that actually killed him, he reached for his gun 2 times so those seem justified

Quote :

"He turned his attention from the trooper in the woods to two troopers coming up behind him, including the one who had fired at the truck. As Finicum shifted direction, the trooper in the woods holstered his gun and drew out his Taser X2, which can be effective from 25 feet but works best at about 15 feet. Finicum at least twice reached with his right hand toward the inside of his left jacket, where he had a loaded Ruger SR9 semi-automatic pistol that had been a gift from his stepson. He then turned back toward the trooper approaching with the Taser. He again reached for his jacket. "It was consistent with drawing a handgun," the trooper with the Taser told investigators. "He's going for a gun and I can tell you right now, uh, I was very uncomfortable." He continued ordering Finicum to stop. "He had the drop on me at this point," the trooper said. One of the troopers who had been coming up behind Finicum saw the same motion – "consistent with grabbing a firearm" is how he described it to investigators. "I need to take action to stop him from being a threat" to the trooper with the Taser, he later told investigators. He fired two rounds, both striking Finicum in the back. At the same instant, another trooper nearby fired a single round into Finicum's back."

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/lavoy_finicum_shot_3_times_in.html

you can see it on the video, he definitely reaches in his jacket where they recovered the gun

[Edited on March 11, 2016 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

3/11/2016 11:12:00 AM

This what woulda happened if they were minorities.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/06/cleveland-cop-doesnt-remember-firing-on-car_n_7010728.html

3/11/2016 11:19:46 AM

Quote :

"Having a firearm on your person is not a justifiable reason to use lethal force, unless said person is acting or communicating the intent to inflict harm and there is a reasonable belief the person intends to act on that threat. So was it on his person, eg, a pocket or holster? Was he holding it in his hand?"

It appeared he was reaching for it and after his rhetoric I think reasonable people would agree. Could have done many different ways but he chose his own death. I also think I heard shots fired before he got out, but he did appear like a maniac driving fast as hell towards the road block only to veer off at the last second.

I won't take credit away from the man for bringing about his own death.

3/11/2016 11:42:44 AM

he almost hit somebody with his car. that made the first shots at the roadblock justified.

3/11/2016 11:51:18 AM

but it was after he was stopped and getting out

3/11/2016 11:55:55 AM

Those passengers should have gotten out when the driver asked "do you guys want to go". It seemed pretty clear then what his intention was.

3/11/2016 11:59:34 AM

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

3/11/2016 12:10:56 PM

Quote :

"he almost hit somebody with his car. that made the first shots at the roadblock justified. "

I'd agree. They spent weeks breaking a bunch of laws, uploaded youtube videos saying theyre ready to die, spent several minutes at the beginning of the video asking to be shot, then are charging at a roadblock, they're lucky there weren't more shots fired sooner.

3/11/2016 12:25:20 PM

Quote :

"but it was after he was stopped and getting out"

yes, but both actions (stopping and getting out) occurred after almost hitting someone with his car. he was declared a threat at the point of his vehicle almost killing an officer. if it was a passenger getting out and getting shot, that would be an entirely different situation, but the driver being the one in control of the vehicle that almost murdered an officer was definitely a threat.

3/11/2016 2:48:08 PM

that's not how use of force rules work, you can't kill someone as punishment for trying to kill you. if the threat no longer exists, it didn't, there is no justification for force. the threat didn't exist again until he reached into his coat.

3/11/2016 2:58:20 PM

^unless you're black.

zing.


but back to the lecture at hand, dude messed with bull and got the horns.

3/11/2016 4:13:19 PM

^^ i don't think it's revenge as much as it is responding to an established threat.

3/11/2016 4:32:39 PM

Did you see after the guy was down that was talking all that shit they had multiple weapons pointed at his head for quite a while after. You can see all the laser dots just flickering around his head.

3/11/2016 5:17:40 PM

Whats the debate here? Whether the cops/FBI had justification to shoot him once he was out of the car?

He was carrying a loaded weapon, failed to comply with the cops and then reach down to his hip where his gun was. Seems like justification enough regardless of all the other circumstances to lead the cops to believe he was a threat.

Honestly the people in the car should count themselves lucky they weren't lit up like Bonnie and Clyde. If you watch the video the douchebag by the window is still holding a loaded gun even after they killed LaVoy.

3/11/2016 5:28:31 PM

They shot the vehicle before it got to the roadblock and also as the door was opening, neither of those are justified

3/11/2016 6:03:17 PM

He was running full speed at a police barricade. I think that was justified. They only point of contention is that the FBI agent said he didn't fire, when in fact he did. Agent should have owned up to it right off the bat.

As for shooting when the door opened, I'm surprised only one shot was fired. That was the point where they should have turned the whole car into a giant colander and riddled the car with bullets. He ignored police instructions, charged out his door with a loaded gun on him and if it was any other case that would have been the last thing he ever did. Instead they let him waddle around in the snow before he committed suicide by cop.

3/11/2016 7:35:38 PM

The shot that hot the truck was way before the barricade, neither of those were justified

3/11/2016 7:44:06 PM

Quote :

"The shot that hot the truck was way before the barricade,"

bullshit. the shot hit the vehicle as it rounded the final curve at full speed while they were fleeing police. they were ~10 car lengths from the barricade when it hit them

Quote :

"They shot the vehicle before it got to the roadblock and also as the door was opening, neither of those are justified"

if they think he's going to try and ram the roadblock or otherwise put the lives of the people standing at the roadblock, the shooting before it got to the roadblock is 100% justified. he is assaulting them with a deadly weapon by threatening to ram them with a truck.

one of the stupid women in the back said it best. they got too lax. too complacent. they thought they were above the law and could just do whatever the shit they wanted to.

[Edited on March 11, 2016 at 7:52 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 11, 2016 at 7:52 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2016 7:48:12 PM

Their roads were fine

3/11/2016 8:45:30 PM