what do you guys know or think about this

[Edited on April 9, 2024 at 2:10 PM. Reason : Is Surrogacy Moral?]

4/9/2024 2:10:29 PM

This seems like a stupid argument. Outside of religion, how is it immoral?

4/9/2024 2:37:11 PM

Here's what the pope thinks about it

https://www.npr.org/2024/01/09/1223771148/pope-francis-surrogacy-criticism

And I get his point, but it's quite a generalization

4/9/2024 3:58:14 PM

^^

Does morality not exist outside of religion? Religion itself is manmade, so the ideas it espouses are based on our own human moralities, even if often archaic.

Also, there is two main ways to differentiate when discussing the topic.

Gestational vs Traditional
and then after that, commercial vs altruistic.

Big differences.

4/9/2024 5:15:56 PM

I always wondered how it worked. Does the man have to bwn the woman that carries? Or that person just gets inseminated?

4/9/2024 7:23:37 PM

^IVF

4/9/2024 8:38:36 PM

If the only reason is convenience if feels immoral to me— it’s essentially an indentured servitude.

But there’s other scenarios where this isn’t what’s happening

Regardless we need to invent synthetic wombs asap— child birth is really a barbaric process when you think about it

4/9/2024 9:49:55 PM

did Elon Musk take over your account?

4/9/2024 11:05:36 PM

^
I didn't share my opinion, I just wanted to hear some perspectives.

Quote :

"Regardless we need to invent synthetic wombs asap— child birth is really a barbaric process when you think about it"

Not really.

[Edited on April 10, 2024 at 7:50 AM. Reason : 1]

4/10/2024 7:50:47 AM

^I believe thegoodlife3's comment was directed to moron regarding synthetic wombs. Sounds like an Elon Musk idea.

4/10/2024 12:41:51 PM

I wasn’t thinking in terms of inconvenience.

But if it comes down to a business transaction between consenting adults, who cares? I guess you could argue servitude if the people wanting the convenience offer poor people something they can’t refuse. But they could still refuse.

I was thinking in terms of “We can’t get pregnant, so my altruistic sister is going to carry our child for us”

And it seems moron would like to remove all humanity from humans. I suspect that if we ever get to the point to where we could grow fetuses in artificial wombs, those people would be all kinds of f’d up. There’s got to be implications of which we aren’t aware when it comes to growing inside another human.

[Edited on April 10, 2024 at 2:34 PM. Reason : Stupid]

4/10/2024 2:32:32 PM

the idea of wanting synthetic wombs because “child birth is really a barbaric process when you think about it” is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard

like shockingly dumb

it’s also incredibly dark

[Edited on April 10, 2024 at 2:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2024 2:39:03 PM

^
Why?

Birth rates are dropping around the world, and one of thr main reasons is that women just don’t want to risk all the health complications and changes that come with that

Seems dark to ignore a technology that would be wildly freeing for 50% of the population, and solve a major problem the top countries in the world are having. And not sure why this removes humanity from humans, it’s literally creating more humans to be human with. The kid would still have a mother and father as they always would have.

The initial fertilization would happen the old fashion way too in my synthetic womb vision for humanity. It would just be the gestation that happens by machine

If you’re against this you basically hate women

[Edited on April 10, 2024 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2024 4:02:14 PM

Just to clarify, you're trolling, right?

4/10/2024 4:10:54 PM

Quote :

" Birth rates are dropping around the world, and one of thr main reasons is that women just don’t want to risk all the health complications and changes that come with that"

how about some data to back that up?

4/10/2024 5:09:16 PM

yes /thread

4/10/2024 5:36:45 PM

Quote :

"/thread"

Prove it!

4/10/2024 7:49:49 PM

Quote :

"If the only reason is convenience if feels immoral to me— it’s essentially an indentured servitude. "

What makes it immoral indentured servitude any more than hiring someone for something else?

Or, for that matter, someone doing something for someone else out of altruistic motives?

4/10/2024 8:26:34 PM

4/10/2024 10:16:22 PM

I bet he hood as fuck in private

4/10/2024 11:12:44 PM

Quote :

"Just to clarify, you're trolling, right?"

Not at all. I’m actually flabbergasted you all are against synthetic wombs, when this would be the most positive transformational technology in human history. On par with fusion energy and a cure for cancer

It seems extremely obvious to me we need this.

Ask your wives and baby moms if they would have rather avoided all the poking and prodding and lifelong health implications of pregnancy including incontinence, if they could avoid it. I bet 90% would choose to avoid it if it were safe. There should be a moonshot funding effort for this. There’s already been very promising animal trials. Even if it was for the last 2 trimesters it would be a game changer


[Edited on April 11, 2024 at 12:35 AM. Reason : ]

4/11/2024 12:29:46 AM

^^^true

https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/mar/28/cross-border-surrogacy-exploiting-low-income-women-as-biological-resources

4/11/2024 9:19:07 AM

^^You seem to think that you alone are the progressive force here (not politically, but in its root meaning) and that people opposing it are simply doing so out of reaction.

Quote :

"Ask your wives and baby moms if they would have rather avoided all the poking and prodding and lifelong health implications of pregnancy including incontinence, if they could avoid it."

Very narrow-minded viewpoint.

I do see in the long run something like this possibly becoming commonplace, but I also think it is naive to see that as our natural evolution technologically. I think variability is key to continuity, and increasingly going to artificial means (in our current capacity) is opposed to that.

[Edited on April 11, 2024 at 9:32 AM. Reason : 1]

4/11/2024 9:30:07 AM

Quote :

"Ask your wives and baby moms if they would have rather avoided all the poking and prodding and lifelong health implications of pregnancy including incontinence, if they could avoid it. I bet 90% would choose to avoid it if it were safe."

No doubt many would take this option, but not 90% and maybe fewer than half. A lot of people are very big on "natural childbirth."

That said, I think artificial wombs would be a wonderful help to those who want it, or need it due to fertility issues. Not opposed to them in any way, but let's not overstate how popular they'd be, especially in the initial decades.

Quote :

"What makes it immoral indentured servitude any more than hiring someone for something else?"

The difficulty of getting out of the contract once the process has begun, and the impossibility of avoiding traumatic, permanent physical changes when it comes to completion.

Quote :

"how about some data to back that up?"

I was also skeptical, figuring that "money" would be the top reason, but a cursory google of "survey why not have children" shows that medical reasons are the number one answer.

4/11/2024 10:44:26 AM

Quote :

"I was also skeptical, figuring that "money" would be the top reason, but a cursory google of "survey why not have children" shows that medical reasons are the number one answer."

Incorrect.



56% of them "just don't want children". That's the number one answer. Now, out of the remaining percent, 19% say it is medical, which doesn't even necessitate that they worry about issues, but that they may have an existing medical issue.

[Edited on April 11, 2024 at 10:59 AM. Reason : -]

4/11/2024 10:59:01 AM

Quote :

"You seem to think that you alone are the progressive force here (not politically, but in its root meaning) and that people opposing it are simply doing so out of reaction."

Yeah does seem like the opposition is at least 85% reactionary.

Quote :

"I also think it is naive to see that as our natural evolution technologically. I think variability is key to continuity, and increasingly going to artificial means (in our current capacity) is opposed to that."

I'm not really sure what this has to do with artificial wombs TBH. It wouldn't affect any variability in terms of genetics. It will eliminate different access to nutrition and pre-natal environment. Significantly fewer babies would be born with alcohol or drug effects. You could provide every baby with ideal nutritional requirements for development. Unless you're saying we need people disadvantaged from birth with preventable conditions for society to function but THAT is a dark sentiment...

4/11/2024 12:32:19 PM

Not really. Tangent but, have you read "The Giver"?

also what are your thoughts on autism and selective abortion of autistic kids?



[Edited on April 12, 2024 at 9:34 AM. Reason : -]

4/12/2024 9:33:01 AM