Quote :

"exactly. i dont understand why people have to compete to the EXTREME at everything in life. can't you just NOT take something so seriously for once?"

if you don't want to compete then you should be registered for the casual run. if you are registered for the COMPETITIVE run then there is an expectation of it being COMPETITIVE

I mean let me know if this is nothing more than a glorified walk for life and I'll adjust my expectations.

2/3/2008 2:34:45 AM

Point taken, believe me. Hopefully next year the primary organizers will heed my advice and start thinking earlier about these issues, and more importantly, communicate things better to the general public.. Not being web savvy attributed a lot to this. Sigh.

As for the "price insensitive" thing -- I'm pretty proud of our price. We are mindful of our audience.

2/3/2008 3:12:07 AM

^^you have no common sense if you need people to spoon feed the obvious to you.

2/3/2008 2:53:28 PM

As a member of the organizing committee this year, I'd like to add in my $0.02 on a few things. I'm really glad we have this thread going, because it's always good for us to get different perspectives on the event and to question ourselves. TWW is an important part of NC State's community.

1) The majority of the geniuses behind this event--the core group who grew this event from 12 people to 1400 in 3 years--was all gone for this event. srvora is one of that group, and they provided as much wisdom and insight as they could. But the bulk of the work and planning was done by people organizing this event for the first time, with minimal prior experience. Sure, most of us helped out last year, but we were nowhere near as involved with the real organization as we had to be this year. As a result, there was a big learning curve, and some things slipped through the cracks.

2) We were really hurt by a lack of tech savvy people. This was detrimental to some of our communication with the public. Hopefully, next year we'll be able to find a couple of tech whizzes to help us out.

3) Almost every issue brought up on this thread, was debated at some point by our committees. We considered chip timing, as well as most other things. Ultimately, we decided that it wasn't worth the cost. As others have pointed out, this event is meant to be funny and not serious. It's not a real race. It's a fun event, and we wanted to keep it that way. So, keeping in mind the limited budget of most college students, we decided to go the route of $15 price instead of $20, without chip timing, and just make sure everyone has a great time. And I think we were overwhelmingly successful in that regard.

Were things perfect? No. We surely made mistakes. But on the whole, I think everyone had an overwhelmingly positive experience last Saturday. We have a lot that we can and plan to fix for next year, including many of the issues raised here. We're pleased with what we accomplished, but we are already talking about how next year can be even better.

2/3/2008 4:57:28 PM

Quote :

"2) We were really hurt by a lack of tech savvy people. This was detrimental to some of our communication with the public. Hopefully, next year we'll be able to find a couple of tech whizzes to help us out."

Put out an open call and there will be no shortage. Several people here have already offered their services.

2/3/2008 7:08:10 PM

^ I think I would say the "lack of tech savy people" was really a more general problem of communication with the public.

2/3/2008 10:53:02 PM

^^ Send me a PM and I'll hook you up.

2/3/2008 11:04:06 PM

Check your inbox.

2/3/2008 11:27:56 PM

btw, what is the facebook group for the KKC?

There are two. Currently, none apparently more authoritative than the other.

2/3/2008 11:28:46 PM

Also, next time invite the japanese

/message_topic.aspx?topic=513051

2/3/2008 11:43:09 PM

TFinch, I sent you a pm regarding point #2 you talked about.

2/3/2008 11:48:44 PM

Regarding the Techsaviness - you might want to consider changing over your website to using wordpress as your content management system. Yes - It'll look like a blog unless you tweak it a bit, but once you get the site like you like it, it's cake for anyone from your planning group to add pages. Anyone that uses something like facebook or myspace would have no problems whatsoever adding content.

2/4/2008 9:16:50 AM

I second ^. If you find someone to do the initial installation and templating for you for a Wordpress site, then the race committee can them manage the site almost completely on their own without any special web or tech knowledge. And you can get away from the "bloggy" feel pretty easily with some good Wordpress customization, like this site that I did in Wordpress, but the non-tech clients maintain completely on their own - http://teamkendatire.com/

2/4/2008 9:28:07 AM

We actually use wordpress for our webpage. Without that, we'd be screwed.

For most of us tech idiots, Wordpress was a bit of an adjustment, but we're finally comfortable with it. The REAL need for tech people comes with things like registration and timing. Currently, our registration page through eventbrite charges us $0.99 per registrant, plus PayPal fees. We would love to get rid of Eventbrite and use our own registration page, thus saving $3,000+. We tried to base a numbering system off of the excel spreadsheet that eventbrite generates, but that proved problematic as well.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

2/4/2008 12:45:54 PM

Quote :

"Currently, our registration page through eventbrite charges us $0.99 per registrant, plus PayPal fees"

ouch.

2/4/2008 8:05:33 PM

That is harsh. But still, it's killer to set up an online pay system. There are businesses I've worked with that have had ordering online for years and years and still pays the company that does it like 1.50 on $7 purchases.

It is a bitch.

2/4/2008 9:34:27 PM

Yeah. We see the PayPal fees (around $0.74 per transaction) as staying with us. But eliminating that $0.99 EventBrite fee would be cool. I will say -- EventBrite has one helluva nice service. I was very impressed working with it and seeing its feature set. They are also starting to open up its API -- a welcome addition.

2/5/2008 1:16:54 AM

I mean this in the nicest and most sincere way, but registration is the least of the KKC concerns at this point from my vantage point. That's the last thing ya'll need to be worried about right now.

Whether it's not it's fair, "unrealistic", not in the initial vision, the timing and results need to be taken care of ASAP. Whenever you start handing out numbers and providing timing, people want to know those results as soon as possible. You've set yourselves up for that, and it's been well over a week later and the results still are not posted. That's going to be a huge turnoff for folks, and there's no real reason that needs to be an issue. 24 hours is pretty standard for races these days, with many giving almost instantaneous results. That's now the expectation, and all those folks from running clubs, HS track teams, teams of frats/sorority/ROTC/randoms are cooling their heels right now.

I've "raced" this the last 2 years, and don't care about my time, but I've also got a Master's and halfway through a PhD in Parks/Rec/Sports/Outdoor "stuff" and have done more case studies about these sorts of things than I care to admit to. The 3-4th year for volunteer groups/orgs/events is the make-or-break time. Take care of some fundamental stuff right now and ya'll are sitting pretty for a few years, have sustainable growth, and become rockstars. Ignore it, and take the risk of going under the first time there's an ice storm during the race weekend. About 40% (I'm guessing here) of your registrations came in the last week or so. It was great to have 3K, but I don't think you're going to be able to count on that crush of folks to sign up at the last minute, particularly with January being an iffy weather month. Novelty events come and go, but I'd like to see ya'll be able to sustain the KKC as an NCSU tradition for years.

I'm rambling now, but I see your most pressing issues are 1) communication with runners, and 2) Timing/results. Water tables and that kind of thing are small potatoes compared to those 2 things, IMO.

With KKC love,

-Johnny Swank

2/5/2008 9:09:30 AM

maybe doing more registration at the brickyard tables would reduce costs? Small change I guess.

2/5/2008 10:07:33 AM

A good registration system will actually make race results easier keep track of and to post, they go hand in hand.

Thats why I've offered my services, check your PM's guys

2/5/2008 10:15:36 AM

someone make a thread for the 2009 race so i can keep bttting it.

2/5/2008 10:27:38 AM

I'd actually argue that Brickyard registrations make things more difficult on the back end. Somebody's got to hand-input all that info, and you're better off having the registrant to it themselves. Anything you can do to NOT have to decipher handwriting is good, and having all the data on one common database is your best possible scenerio.

Set up a bank of 5 laptops, use the wifi connection available on the Brickyard, hand out free donuts to registrants, and call it a day. Too easy.

2/5/2008 10:42:20 AM

Quote :

"A good registration system will actually make race results easier keep track of and to post, they go hand in hand. "

yeah, exactly. That's why my strongest suggestion from the last page was Race Management Software. If they're not going to out-source to a race management company and try to run it themselves, then the single most important thing after that is getting some race management software. The software will streamline the registration, competitor number and result entry/creation process.

2/5/2008 10:46:19 AM

Quote :

"Thats why I've offered my services for free"

2/5/2008 11:10:03 AM

Quote :

"About 40% (I'm guessing here) of your registrations came in the last week or so. It was great to have 3K, but I don't think you're going to be able to count on that crush of folks to sign up at the last minute, particularly with January being an iffy weather month."

The number is more like 50%. I've posted this link before:http://www.saketvora.com/kkc/kkc_registrants_vs_time_comparison.pdf

I plead and beg people every year to sign up early to help us anticipate what we'll need, but its the same trend. We haven't hit a saturation point yet.

Quote :

"Set up a bank of 5 laptops, use the wifi connection available on the Brickyard, hand out free donuts to registrants, and call it a day. Too easy."

You're right. It is too easy. If only it worked like that. We have emails from people who cannot pay with a credit card, so Brickyard registration events not only give us immediate publicity and awareness, but we can also accept cash registrations. You're right -- it does make it slower and error-prone to hand transcribe these entries into our spreadsheet/database.

Quote :

"Please don't think weIf they're not going to out-source to a race management company and try to run it themselves, then the single most important thing after that is getting some race management software. The software will streamline the registration, competitor number and result entry/creation process."

Again, this isn't new to us. We started discussing these ideas and implementation even during last year's event. But going from 'talking about it' to actually working out the details of getting it implemented, especially when you have a young group of people who aren't up to speed with technology, its harder than it sounds.

Quote :

""Thats why I've offered my services for free""

And we love free.

Do we need adverse weather plans? Absolutely.
Do we need to improve the timing and results posting process? Absolutely.

[Edited on February 5, 2008 at 8:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/5/2008 8:22:12 PM

Seriously guys, you have a bunch of people on here, myself included, who would help you guys out tech wise for free because of the cause.

* throws a box of donuts at TFinch's head * Answer your pm's fool.

2/5/2008 9:30:04 PM

^ditto

...but he answered my PMs

2/5/2008 10:31:09 PM

are you guys still local to Raleigh/Triangle?

2/5/2008 11:58:06 PM

Hey guys - this is a follow-up to the free development offer from 'nacstate'. We have a software platform called IntelliKiosk that comes bundled with a bunch of web-based software applications that we think might be useful. Right now we have about 5 software applications that are part of the IntelliKiosk framework, but we can build brand new applications on the fly.

Here are a couple of screenshots of the ready-built applications that we have. Please excuse the quality of the screenshots - TWW resizes them.

extremeCMS - Content Management System

- Unlimited Categories and Pages
- Photo Gallery that generates up to 5 resized images on the fly (thumbnails, inline, etc)





Design Studio - Web Design and Template System

- Unlimited Page Templates that can be applied individually to any content page in the system.
- Powerful CSS editor that lets you create and edit CSS files from within the web interface.





iStore - Online Store

- Unlimited Products and Categories
- Full PayPal support
- Coupons
- UPS Shipping, Tracking, and Label Printing
- Products can have multiple images and belong to multiple categories.





System Administration

- Detailed Access Logs
- User Management & Team Security (you can restrict records or data to particular teams)
- Advance GPS (Global Permissions System) - allows you to grant and deny users access to individual applications.





Online Samples

Here's a quick list of some companies that are using IntelliKiosk to manage their website and internal operations.

Journalism Education Association http://www.jea.org - Membership database to manage over 6,000 members. Online registration for national conferences (students from every high school in the nation).

NCSU Alumni Association http://www.ncstatealumnicollection.com - Their entire website is controlled by our CMS and Design Studio applications. They are also using iStore for their online store application.

NCSU Minority Career Fair
http://www.collegiatekiosk.com/ncsumcf - Custom built registration system for the Minority Career Fair. Includes registration portal for users and integrated online payments.

NCSU Student Organization Resource Center - Under Construction - We are currently building a organization management system for SORC that will include online registration and management of all NCSU Student Orgs. It also gives organizations the ability to manage users, maintain an online calendar, store documents, and make reservations online.

Ok so that was a lot of typing. ;-) I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. The point is we're trying to do a lot of charity work this year and we've got some cool products that might help. Alternatively we can build a brand new application from scratch. We're planning on doing about 10-15 free IntelliKiosk implementations this year. It's first come first serve, so let us know if you are interested.

[Edited on February 6, 2008 at 12:57 AM. Reason : :-)]

2/6/2008 12:48:03 AM

you know....the fact that we raised like 20k for the childrens hospital is more important to me than my time

2/6/2008 12:50:46 AM

^^ Take that offer and run with it. Seriously. Pass all these offers up and I don't want to hear complaints on anything technical from the KKC staff next year; it'll be your own fault.

2/6/2008 1:11:48 AM

youd be retarded not to take that offer as soon as you see it

2/6/2008 1:45:18 AM

can i buy stock of that idea?

2/6/2008 1:50:51 AM

Very nice. This gets me excited.

2/6/2008 2:05:43 AM

we're not offering stock in the company as of now.

2/6/2008 8:31:49 AM

This is...excellent. Wow.

2/6/2008 5:52:59 PM

is there anything TWW can't do?

2/7/2008 12:39:08 AM

I tried to find a link to the N&O letter to the editor that some MD wrote criticizing the KKC for promoting gluttony/obesity/unhealthiness or some whiny shit like that, but it must be too old

2/7/2008 12:51:39 AM

News & Observer, The (Raleigh, NC) - January 31, 2008
Regarding your Jan. 27 article "Run, gorge, run": It was unconscionable for The N&O to devote so much space to an absolutely inconsequential story dealing with people consuming 12 doughnuts, or 2,400 calories, to run four miles, which burns about 400 calories, to raise money for a worthy cause. The goal of raising money for a worthy cause is holy, but the method is most repulsive.

With the epidemic of obesity causing diabetes, hypertension and cardiovascular disease, I believe your story encouraging gluttony, profligacy and self-indulgence was most unwise. People ought to be encouraged to fast, lower caloric intake and lose weight while they run and engage in fundraising.

--------, M.D.
Raleigh

Guys, don't flame this guy. You're not going to help. This event will always have detractors.

I'll instead offer you this thoughtful and positive account of the event, from someone who ran it:
http://www.fatteningofamerica.com/blog/?p=12

The author is a PhD,MHA health economist at RTI Int'l. "His work focuses on the economic causes and consequences of health-related behaviors, with a primary emphasis on obesity. Finkelstein has published over thirty peer-reviewed articles on the economics of obesity and related behaviors. His research has been featured on the front page of USA Today and has been covered in the Economist, the New York Times, Forbes, the Washington Post, and many other newspaper, radio, and television outlets."

So we've got both sides covered.

2/7/2008 1:10:35 AM

Quote :

"People ought to be encouraged to fast, lower caloric intake and lose weight while they run and engage in fundraising."

this is about the most confusing sentence ever. people should fast while they exercise? way to encourage hypoglycemia. and "lose weight" is kind of a given if you are on a hypocaloric diet (which all the fad diets are, basically)...but it's a very short term strategy and will inevitably lead to failure

[Edited on February 7, 2008 at 7:47 AM. Reason : ]

2/7/2008 7:47:08 AM

^ I re-read that sentence a few times trying to figure out if that idiot really recommended fasting. Credibility = 0 for that douchebag.

The notion that a single fun run and 2400 calories is going to make a big impact in anyone's weight problem is laughable. I'm sure most of the people who weren't already good athletes trained by running, not by eating donuts.

2/7/2008 8:18:51 AM

I thought i was going to poop them all out soon after i finished without throwing up. But then it didn't. It felt like all the donuts latched on to my cells and stayed there. It did not feel good, i should have thrown them up.

[/blog]

2/7/2008 8:18:56 PM

Quote :

"The notion that a single fun run and 2400 calories is going to make a big impact in anyone's weight problem is laughable. I'm sure most of the people who weren't already good athletes trained by running, not by eating donuts."

Exactly. I have seen this argument from many people but not an actual MD; I figured that someone who went to school for ~10 years might conclude that the sort of person who can run 4 miles is not the sort who would eat 12 donuts on a daily basis.

This guy is acting like we held a sit-at-a-table-and-eat contest for charity.

I probably run an average of 10 times a month, 3+ miles each time. I eat 12 donuts exactly once a year.

More proof that educated doesn't mean smart.

[Edited on February 7, 2008 at 8:26 PM. Reason : -]

2/7/2008 8:24:16 PM

haha why all the hate for docs

2/7/2008 9:30:35 PM

Too many good docs are getting out of business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country.

2/8/2008 12:40:14 AM

KKC Guys - it's been almost 2 weeks since the event and results haven't been posted, no emails have been sent ("Thanks for coming out! Over 3,000 runners contributed......") etc. No followthrough at all.

This is really basic shit that needs to be taken care of. You're burning goodwill by the day.

2/8/2008 8:39:01 AM

Can we get a confirmation that results are actually still going to be posted? After two weeks, I'm doubtful.

2/8/2008 8:55:05 AM

They're hoping we'll forget.

2/8/2008 1:01:14 PM

yeah, just say it straight, if we're not getting them I can stop checking.

2/8/2008 2:14:55 PM

This is terrible. I have no idea wtf what's the problem with this. sigh. don't let up guys.

2/8/2008 5:22:55 PM