^ ha take off your partisan blinders for a second and thnk about this... They aren't citizens because of a loophole, they are citizens because they will grow up here, calling this their home, and embracing american culture as their own. A large portion of them won't even speak their parents' native language.


Your post seems to have actual malice to these kids because of your dislike for their parents. If you are in the business of punishing kids for their parents wrongs, then I guess you must support reparations for blacks or native americans?

8/12/2010 4:13:36 PM

Florida's proposed immigration law goes further than Arizona
August 12, 2010

Quote :

"The new laws, proposed by Bill McCollum, Florida's Republican Attorney General, go further than those which Arizona attempted to introduce earlier this month. Arizona has been blocked from introducing key parts of its new laws by a federal court after opposition from Barack Obama among others. Under Mr McCollum's proposed legislation, judges would be allowed to impose longer prison sentences and tougher bail conditions on illegal immigrants who have committed a crime."

Quote :

"Under the proposed law, police can also arrest people on a 'reasonable suspicion' that they are illegal immigrants. About 20 other states are understood to be planning similar legislation."

http://tinyurl.com/2gx6kew

Well, I guess they're all just "RACISTS!!!1"

8/12/2010 6:05:18 PM

Quote :

"They aren't citizens because of a loophole, they are citizens because they will grow up here, calling this their home, and embracing american culture as their own. A large portion of them won't even speak their parents' native language."

Not at all true. Most of them will fit that bill, but that is not why they are granted citizenship. If it were the case, then I doubt most people would have a problem with it. Rather, they get citizenship because of what side of the line they plopped out on. is that a "loophole?" I'll let you be the judge, but don't distort why they are being given citizenship.

8/12/2010 7:44:00 PM

Quote :

"I'll let you be the judge"

jesus christ enough with this shit, you are such a joke. make a point or don't.

8/12/2010 8:56:17 PM

^^ they are citizens because the constitution says they are. That is not a loophole.

I guess the original constitution probably only wanted white people to be citizens, so I guess by your reasoning, every non-white born citizen is a citizen because of a loop hole, but you won’t really find many people to agree to that asinine point you might be trying to make.

8/12/2010 11:05:08 PM

Quote :

"Well, I guess they're all just "RACISTS!!!1" "

It’s hard to say without reviewing each bill, but why would this be shocking to you? Nearly 25 states amended their constitutions to ban gay marriages, would you argue that they can’t be bigots because of the shear quantity of people on board?

8/12/2010 11:08:12 PM

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0812/Obama-as-border-cop-He-s-deported-record-numbers-of-illegal-immigrants?sms_ss=facebook
Obama as border cop: He's deported record numbers of illegal immigrants

8/12/2010 11:19:07 PM

^^ I think you mean "sheer." And Barack Obama doesn't support gay marriage--is he a "bigot"?

It never ceases to amaze me how liberals seem to develop instantaneous amnesia concerning Obama's position on this issue.

8/13/2010 6:19:30 PM

UPDATE 1-Obama signs $600 million US border security bill

Quote :

" ... The new $600 million will fund some 1,500 new border patrol agents, customs inspectors and other law enforcement officials along the border, as well as two more unmanned aerial "drones" to monitor border activities. Congress' speedy approval of the measure marked a rare display of bipartisanship. Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said he hoped the bill's passage would help break the stalemate over broader immigration reform. Obama, in a statement issued on Thursday, said he wanted to continue working toward that goal. There are believed to be about 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States. But immigrants' rights advocates say Republicans have inflated concerns about illegal immigrants in order to put Democrats on the defensive ahead of the Nov. 2 congressional elections. With the measure's passage, members of Congress running for re-election will be able to spend the next several weeks boasting that they acted to reinforce the border. Officials in southwestern states have asked for more help from the federal government to stem the flow of illegal immigrants, weapons and narcotics. Obama already has ordered more National Guard troops to the border for a year. A federal judge last month blocked key parts of an Arizona law that sought to drive illegal immigrants out of the state, handing a victory to the Obama administration, which argued the measure was unconstitutional. The White House also rejected calls by some Republicans in Congress to alter the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution to eliminate language that gives automatic U.S. citizenship to all people born in the United States. These Republicans oppose automatic citizenship for babies of illegal immigrants born in the United States. The amendment, ratified in 1868 in the aftermath of the U.S. Civil War, was intended to guarantee that former slaves were automatically given U.S. citizenship. "Those that have, with steadfast fidelity, talked about not tampering with our Constitution, have now swerved to pick the 14th Amendment as the best place to address comprehensive immigration reform," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said. "It's rich in its irony. It's wrong in its approach." (Additional reporting by Jeff Mason; Editing by Will Dunham) "

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN139868720100813

8/13/2010 6:20:59 PM

^ Though it doesn't do everything I would like, I give Obama credit for this. It's something, at least.

8/13/2010 6:32:27 PM

Obama Won’t Deport Illegal Immigrant Students

Quote :

"As it strives to grant illegal immigrants in the U.S. amnesty, the Obama Administration has ordered authorities to stop deporting a large category of undocumented aliens while lawmakers craft legislation to officially spare them from expulsion. The Homeland Security agency responsible for protecting the border and deporting unauthorized foreigners (Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE) has halted the removal of illegal immigrants who are students, according to a major newspaper report. The move, which will spare some 700,000 illegal aliens, is a response to nationwide rallies and demonstrations by defiant illegal immigrants protesting their eminent removal or that of their illegal parents. News of this outrageous plan comes days after a separate report revealed that the administration is secretly working behind the scenes to grant millions of illegal immigrants amnesty in case Congress doesn’t pass sweeping legislation to do it. Devised by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), that backdoor amnesty plan aims to enact “meaningful immigration reform absent legislative action.” In the meantime, the administration is protecting scores of illegal aliens who have participated in disruptive sit-ins, rallies and marches to demand legal status simply because they came to the U.S. as children by no fault of their own. Among them was a weeklong protest on Capitol Hill, rowdy sit-ins at legislators’ offices and a large march from Florida to Washington D.C."

Quote :

"The official President Obama picked to run ICE, John Morton, justifies the move by claiming that his agency has limited resources that are better spent on deporting those who commit crimes “as opposed to someone who came to this country as a juvenile and spent the vast majority of their life here.” "

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/aug/ice-won-t-deport-illegal-immigrant-students

8/13/2010 6:35:00 PM

Quote :

"^ Look, man, it's obvious what you're trying to do. You won't last around here if you keep it up."

8/13/2010 6:37:18 PM

Quote :

"And Barack Obama doesn't support gay marriage--is he a "bigot"? "

either that or he's pandering to bigots

8/14/2010 1:10:04 AM

^^^^

Nice way to dodge the question.

And Obama supports civil union and likely would oppose the state-level ban on gay marriage/civil unions that I noted.

8/14/2010 1:39:18 AM

Sorry for my slow response just got back from vacation..

Quote :

"ha take off your partisan blinders for a second and thnk about this"

Partisan blinders haha. I am sure treetwista or hooksaw would be glad to vouch that i am no card-toting republican.

Quote :

"Your post seems to have actual malice to these kids because of your dislike for their parents. If you are in the business of punishing kids for their parents wrongs"

What malice against the kids??? No one is saying we should beat, arrest, or imprison these kids. I am merely asserting
that their family has no right to the same benefits and opportunities within this country as those who are citizens
or came here legally. These kids are more than welcome to return to their parents legal/official home country and take
any opportunities granted there.

Quote :

"I guess you must support reparations for blacks or native americans?"

For native americans yes i do support the on-going reparations for the near genocide of an entire race, as a our government
founded itself on an already occupied land.

Quote :

"Rather, they get citizenship because of what side of the line they plopped out on."

Good call!

Quote :

"I guess the original constitution probably only wanted white people to be citizens"

Nice strawman. I don't give a shit if they are canadians sneaking into this country illegally. My proposed law change
would apply even if Pamela Anderson's visa expired and she was here illegally.

8/16/2010 11:32:03 AM

Quote :

"I guess the original constitution probably only wanted white people to be citizens"

White male landowners actually. Doesn't do you much good to be a citizen if you can't vote.

8/16/2010 12:42:42 PM

Quote :

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

8/16/2010 12:47:32 PM

9/4/2010 1:40:02 AM

^ I think Brewer should be checked for TIAs--and I'm not joking. Like her or not, I'm sure you don't wish her ill health.

But even if Brewer wasn't having some sort of medical issue, she's never been a great communicator since I've been aware of her. But I still agree with her position concerning Arizona's SB 1070.

9/4/2010 1:54:11 AM

Certainly not. You may even be on to something. This video makes it look like she was up for taking questions then dodged one with the press scolding her for doing so on the beheadings thing. And it ends saying she wont do any more debates:

Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

9/4/2010 3:57:34 AM

Looks like she decided to address it now:

Quote :

"Brewer walks back beheadings claim Posted: September 4th, 2010 (CNN) – After standing by her claim for more than two months that there have been beheadings in the Arizona desert as a result of rampant illegal immigration, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday walked back her controversial statement. "That was an error, if I said that," Brewer told The Associated Press. "I misspoke, but you know, let me be clear, I am concerned about the border region because it continues to be reported in Mexico that there's a lot of violence going on and we don't want that going into Arizona." Brewer first mentioned beheadings in June, when her state’s controversial new immigration law piqued the national interest. Four in ten Americans opposed the law that month, according to a CNN poll. Brewer cited violence–such as beheadings–near the border as grounds for signing such strict legislation. Medical examiners from six of Arizona's counties, several of which boarder Mexico, later told the Arizona Guardian that they had never witnessed victims who had been beheaded."

9/4/2010 9:05:19 PM

lol

Quote :

"Taking his blowhard act to Congress, comedian Stephen Colbert told lawmakers that one day picking beans alongside illegal immigrants convinced him that farm work is “really, really hard.” “It turns out — and I did not know this — most soil is at ground level,” Colbert testified Friday. Also, “It was hotter than I like to be.” Yet Colbert expressed befuddlement that more Americans aren’t clamoring to “begin an exciting career” in the fields and instead are leaving the work to illegal immigrants. Colbert stayed in character as a pompous Comedy Central news commentator as he offered a House hearing his “vast” knowledge, drawn from spending a single day on a New York farm as a guest of the United Farm Workers. Colbert pleaded with the lawmakers to do something about illegal workers, because “I am not going back out there.” After a day of farm work, he said, “I don’t even want to watch Green Acres again.” After praising Colbert for drawing an unusually large audience to the immigration subcommittee hearing, House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers asked him to leave the room — and to leave the job of testifying to the expert witnesses on the panel, including Farm Workers President Arturo Rodriguez. “You run your show, we run the committee,” said Conyers, D-Mich. Colbert responded that he was there at the invitation of subcommittee chairwoman Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif. Conyers later withdrew his request, and Colbert launched into his schtick, insisting he wanted his tomatoes picked by Americans, not Mexicans. “I’m not a fan of the government doing anything,” Colbert insisted. “But I’ve got to ask, Why isn’t the government doing anything?”"

9/24/2010 2:08:37 PM

yeah, what a fucking asshole. and why the fuck was he even invited? i mean, did anyone really think he was going to have anything meaningful to say? thanks for wasting more tax-dollars

9/24/2010 11:27:22 PM

Quote :

"i mean, did anyone really think he was going to have anything meaningful to say?"

Yes. Because he did.

9/24/2010 11:29:02 PM

A fuller version:



Fox reporter taking the objective stance of "what the hell is he doing" there, and "does he owe the country apology" to set up the GOP congressman response so he could tell FOX viewers to get pissed. Seems to be working.

9/25/2010 12:42:47 AM

Quote :

"yeah, what a fucking asshole. and why the fuck was he even invited? i mean, did anyone really think he was going to have anything meaningful to say? thanks for wasting more tax-dollars"

you can say whatever the fuck you want to to anybody

waste what the fuck you ever want to

you out there crying every fucking day there's BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH going on?

what the shit ever

put on a goddamn laser show

you wanna watch football on sunday?

hell yeah i do

i'm about to jump this mother fucker over a goddamn ramp

9/25/2010 1:38:03 AM

Interesting precedent.

Of course, the democrats won't now mind if the repubs bring on Lynyrd Skynyrd to "testify" and perform their new song "That Ain't My America" from their "Gods & Guns" album.

9/25/2010 1:51:55 AM

It's the latest cspan3 hit

Top of the pet shop charts

[Edited on September 25, 2010 at 1:58 AM. Reason : SEE SPAN THREE, AND LET'S TALK ABOUT IT PAGE ONE]

9/25/2010 1:54:11 AM

"2 girls undermine entire US border strategy in under 18 seconds"



I wonder, now that the election is out of the way, if immigration reform will move to the front burner again (once the GOP goes through the motions of pretending they can repeal everything done since Obama took office)?

1/5/2011 2:31:23 AM

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70D4KN20110114

U.S. ends "virtual fence" project on Mexican border

Quote :

"'FAR WISER APPROACH' An assessment of the Boeing program released by DHS found that $1 billion was spent to cover just 53 miles in Arizona. The new approach should cost less than $750 million to cover the rest of Arizona's border, some 323 miles, DHS said. "The department's decision to use technology based on the particular security needs of each segment of the border is a far wiser approach, and I hope it will be more cost effective," said Senate Homeland Security Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman. While other lawmakers also hailed the end to SBInet, the Republican chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee expressed concern there would be further delays in beefing up security along the border. "The Obama administration must promptly present the people of this country with a comprehensive plan to secure our borders, incorporating the necessary staffing, fencing, and technology," said Representative Peter King."

Maybe if a republican house committee chairman is calling for something comprehensive, this debate will be renewed?

1/17/2011 4:48:44 PM

it amazes me how they show no effort to control the southern border. They are supposed to, told the people they would, yet do nothing about it... Just amazing. Oh sure, handle our healthcare system, you have shown how effective you handle other things.

1/17/2011 7:13:27 PM

Let sociology and anthropology figure it out.

Assimilate, adapt, improve and grow stronger.

1/17/2011 8:04:06 PM

What can be done to fix this? As I see it, it is a perpetual problem. As long as those countries are messed up--which they will be for centuries--children immigrants will keep flocking towards the US border.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/90603/there-s-an-unprecedented-crisis-at-the-border-killing-those-who-need-help-most

That's a lot of children

6/7/2014 2:17:32 AM

i guess cover the damn gaps in the wall should do the trick.

6/7/2014 5:37:33 PM

Quote :

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

6/8/2014 12:54:11 AM

^ but don't bother to let us know you're coming or even ask to be allowed in. Just ignore the laws and come on in! BTW, moron, I'll be at your house later today for dinner. I know you'll be happy to let me have whatever I want. Thanks man!

6/8/2014 1:35:25 AM

If you're a child that left Honduras and walked 1,400 miles through desert to get to it, you're welcome to anything in my fridge.

6/9/2014 8:44:44 AM

^

^^
It's not ideal, but the right thing to do is to feed and shelter these people in clean, healthy conditions until we figure out what to do. Do we now live in a world where I even have to say this? Is this what the GOP has wrought?

[Edited on June 9, 2014 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ]

6/9/2014 10:36:53 AM

Quote :

"If you're a child that left Honduras and walked 1,400 miles through desert to get to it, you're welcome to anything in my fridge. "

Just like my iphone5 brandishing welfare queen in the food stamp thread, this (if it even happens) is probably a small minority of those who travel over the border.

6/9/2014 11:06:14 AM

Yeah, in reality they ride La Bestia (sometimes called the train of death) and there is a lot more murdering.


I hope that none of you opposed to open borders ever claim to be pro free marmets, because free markets depend on the free flow of labor



[Edited on June 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM. Reason : haha, marmets ]

6/9/2014 11:45:52 AM

Also, let's not forget - let's not forget, dude - that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for uh, domestic, you know, within the city - that aint legal either.

6/9/2014 12:07:33 PM

Quote :

"free markets depend on the free flow of labor "

It's actually the opposite. Labor isn't just labor; labor is people. And the free flow of people will change nations where markets are mostly free into nations where they are not.

The flow from despotic or dysfunctional countries will bring despotism and dysfunction, thus killing the markets you supposedly want to make more free.

6/13/2014 3:04:48 PM

actually its exactly what I said. The only way for a free market to function is if labor (people) are free to flow. if you introduce barriers to that flow (borders and tight immigration policies) then it is not a free market. Having open borders for the free flow of labor is a key principal of Ayn Rand-loving free-market libertarians, so don't call yourself a free-market libertarian if you oppose open borders.

Currently we make it very hard for labor to move and very easy for capital move when what we need to do is make it hard for capital to move and easy for labor to move (the second part is not hard-line free market, it would bias the market in favor of labor instead of in favor of capital as it currently is)

Free market proponents should be fighting to make it easier for labor to move (open borders), its fine for you to not want despotic people to move to other countries (well its silly, but its fine for you to have that opinion) but that is not a free market. If you are for restricting people from moving then markets are not free and you should then not be using free market ideology to decide other policies (wages, etc...)

tl;dr
you can't be anti-immigration and pro-free markets

[Edited on June 13, 2014 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .\]

6/13/2014 3:22:47 PM

The free flow of labor does make for a more free market....in the short-term. If people were all interchangeable, then yeah, that would be fine. The problem is that they are not. When people cross borders they don't all of a sudden lose their political ideology, religion, culture, heritage, etc. They are just in a different place. They will make the new place like their old place, in general.

That means if we allow for the free flow of labor from nations that we don't want to be like, we will turn into those countries bit by bit, and that isn't good. People aren't interchangeable widgets. Over time, they influence political climate and market regulation, among many other things.

So, in your quest for another slice of market freedom, in practice you will hurt free markets far more.

6/13/2014 3:51:11 PM

Quote :

"That means if we allow for the free flow of labor from nations that we don't want to be like, we will turn into those countries bit by bit, and that isn't good. "

I disagree with this. If you are talking over short periods of time like years maybe, but you say overtime we will turn into "the countries we don't want to be like". This assumes the second and third generation immigrants do not change any from the first generation. Also it would mean that we would have the Protestant catholic conflicts in Boston because of the Irish immigrants or the multi party republic in states with German immigrants

6/13/2014 10:16:43 PM

Quote :

"you can't be anti-immigration and pro-free markets"

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Just because we can't have all the freedom we want doesn't mean we should shun the freedom we can actually get.

Quote :

"what we need to do is make it hard for capital to move and easy for labor to move"

Making it hard for capital to move will almost always make life worse for labor. It is hard to believe you can shift distribution of the economic pie enough in favor of labor to make up for the shrinkage of said pie that results from bottling up capital in unproductive firms.

6/14/2014 12:03:02 PM

this thread is too complicated

the current situation is nothing but democrats ensuring they never lose another election

and republicans deserve it

case closed

6/14/2014 4:19:08 PM

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/07/01/protesters-greet-buses-carrying-undocumented-immigrants-in-murrieta/

7/2/2014 9:48:28 AM

Heh, welcome to America.

7/2/2014 6:07:32 PM

Someone tell these dumb rednecks who are chanting "Impeach Obama" at this stupid bus rally that Obama deports more people than Bush did and is known in other nations as the "Deporter in Chief"

fucking idiot rednecks

7/2/2014 6:28:37 PM