It's being forcibly retired.

6/25/2015 8:30:36 PM

Quote :

"^^Trust me, NASCAR's real problem is its core audience can no longer afford to go to the races."

TRUTH and my brother is a Test Engineer for MWR, so my opinion on this subject matters.

6/25/2015 8:43:55 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-civil-war-games-showing-confederate-flag-from-its-app-store/?intcmp=latestnews

ok now this is just fucking ridiculous. is it now offensive to acknowledge that the civil war even happened?!

6/25/2015 9:51:12 PM

lol, you confederate sympathizers are about to get erased from the history books.

6/25/2015 9:53:52 PM

Funny how some people are more mad about an app they never knew existed being pulled, that will likely get reinstated, than the 9 people being executed by someone they prayed with, who's whole goal was to get more white people to oppose fixing systemic racial issues.

6/25/2015 10:20:43 PM

I just got off a call with Obama, he has assured me this flag is next.

6/25/2015 10:35:02 PM

Quote :

"Funny how some people are more mad about an app they never knew existed being pulled, that will likely get reinstated, than the 9 people being executed by someone they prayed with, who's whole goal was to get more white people to oppose fixing systemic racial issues. "

I bet you never knew that church existed either, or any of those people who died.

So I don't understand your laughter here. (What I mean is that the fact people didn't know an app exists, how they feel about it, and whether they were mad about the shooting, are all entirely unrelated)

Far as I can see, Schindler's List is still available on iTunes, should it be taken down next?

[Edited on June 25, 2015 at 10:50 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2015 10:47:27 PM

I haven't posted much on here about it since i've been known to post things that aren't necessarily my opinion in order to cause an inflammation among the participants (is there a word for that?)

but the confederate flag debate here is my true experience/opinion:
I grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard, etc in the early 80's, and I understood the confederate flag* to be a symbol of fun loving southern people who are happy about saying y'all, etc. I never once associated it with any sort of hatred, and as a youngster I genuinely did not know that it was used by some people and groups for that reason.

As I got older and had more life experience I began to realize that even though that is what I viewed it as, not everyone did. As an adult, I have chosen not to own or display the flag, or have any shirts, belt buckles, tats, etc etc that portrayed it either.

It is not to be politically correct. There are people who have grown up and lived their lives seeing the rebel flag used by some as a symbol of hatred (towards them or those they care about), and it has very often been used by organizations such as the KKK to intimidate certain groups of people. Out of respect and consideration to those who have had these intimidation experiences (successfully or not), I choose not to display (or embrace) it. If I did, I have realized even though my intent might not to be harmful, I would do those people harm anyway.

All of that being said, the thing that I dislike about the timing of this latest wave of confederate flag "debate" is that it is distracting us from the real issues here at the moment... the victims of this crime, and the overwhelming positive outcry and show of support for the victims and their community that has come from all walks of life in this country, regardless of race, religion, economics, etc. What I saw in Charleston and around the country in the aftermath has shown me the amount of compassion, sympathy, and love that people are able to give, demographics be damned.

Actions should always speak louder and carry more weight than symbols (flags) and rhetoric.


[Edited on June 25, 2015 at 10:56 PM. Reason : *the flag we are all calling "the confederate flag" in regards to this topic]

6/25/2015 10:52:36 PM

Quote :

"All of that being said, the thing that I dislike about the timing of this latest wave of confederate flag "debate" is that it is distracting us from the real issues here at the moment... the victims of this crime, and the overwhelming positive outcry and show of support for the victims and their community that has come from all walks of life in this country, regardless of race, religion, economics, etc. What I saw in Charleston and around the country in the aftermath has shown me the amount of compassion, sympathy, and love that people are able to give, demographics be damned. Actions should always speak louder and carry more weight than symbols (flags) and rhetoric."

The flag stuff isn't a distraction, it's an essential element of a proper response. It's part of the real issue here. A major issue for the black community has been systemic racism, this tends to have a big impact over their lives, if you listen to the narratives of black Americans , and pay attention to the numerous studies on how modern racism manifests itself. Studies have also shown that white Americans tend to be very attuned to overt racism, like executing 9 people and writing a manifesto asserting it is because of racism, but white people are practically blind to covert racism, which is what minorities actually find more bothersome.

This Charleston shooting is a rare confluence of both kinds of racism. The shooter plastered himself with the rebel flag to represent his own blatant racism, and the states of the south adorned themselves with the rebel flag during the civil rights era to represent the more covert state sanctioned racism that still leaves it's mark today. Even the Fox news types that believe systemic racism isn't real would have a hard time still arguing this now. The SC congressman who introduced the bill to remove the flag did it in honor of the senator victim that was his friend, he was embarrassed hi didn't do it sooner, and the incident made him realize what it must be like being black in SC and seeing the government support the same ideas coddled by white supremacists and terrorists. So yeah, the focus the flag is getting is at least a little important.

You can't now get too mad and dismiss the whole movement because Apple took it a little too far. The flag itself isn't the problem, but the message the flag sent being flown by the state IS the problem, and this message still gets broadcasted when people shift focus away from the root causes of this issue so soon. It's easy to get Apple to reverse course, or for developers to use the actual confederate flags in their games, it's still hard to get employees to treat blacks equally, or get juries and judges and cops not to treat blacks more harshly.

6/25/2015 11:28:04 PM

^I do see your point there. I don't live in SC and it's obviously an issue the voters of that state are ultimately responsible for (in theory). If I lived there I would not want it flying on a government building, other than in some sort of history museum (etc) for educational and/or memorial purposes.

but to see walmart and other major retailers cutting out products with the confederate flag on them... this isn't the TRUE tearing down of racial walls that I see happening around the country, such as in Charleston in the immediate aftermath. It's a corporation examining the metrics and crunching the numbers... making a flag harder to purchase isn't going to change many perspectives deeply. Seeing people hug one another, cry with one another, sing with one another... have honest and respectful debates with one another... treating each other as individual human beings no matter how much skin pigment you have.... that is what is the most touching to me.

6/25/2015 11:39:20 PM

What is the "true" tearing down of racial walls? I honestly don't get what you mean by this.

It's not like a Berlin wall, where you tear it down, and it's gone. Removing the rebel flag is low hanging fruit, it's easy to do, legal system reforms are the holy grail, and are hard to do, but they both are part of the process of tearing down the wall, from how I see it.

I am genuinely curious what you view the proper response is though, if not undoing blatantly racist symbolic government action.

6/25/2015 11:59:05 PM

^^how do you feel about Germany outlawing the swastika? Would you be ok with Walmart sold Nazi flags? Or just more overt stuff like say a 'white power' shirt? How do feel about being able to play as nazis in video games?

(these are genuine questions, not troll or rhetorical, trying to see how free market you are)

6/26/2015 12:04:44 AM

^^going to bed soon so i'll try to make more sense... but i think we both agree that people need to view other homo sapiens as equals (yes i know that sounds trite and cliche) regardless of skin color, etc.

for me... the expression of unity i have seen by many people has personally motivated me to continue to make sure that I'm not part of the problem, intentionally or not, and maybe emboldened me to express my feelings to others more about how people of all races have so much more in common than differences.

This flag "debate" however has not generated that same sense... I've seen so many people inflame the situation by calling people who do fly the rebel flag bigots, rednecks, sore losers (civil war), traitors, etc, etc, etc. Most people, when confronted with such a personal and aggressive attack-argument, will become defensive, clam up, or simply disengage - any of which will end any progress.

If I were a person who was flying the flag with the same intent Bo and Luke Duke had, I would much rather be engaged in a respectful conversation about how, even though I didn't view it as a symbol of hate, other people have had very deep and personal experiences with hate, oppression, intimidation - all under the banner of that same flag. And by displaying it, there is real harm caused to those people.

Dunno if that makes any more sense. I'll contemplate what you said and try to formulate a more coherent response tomorrow if I need to!


^good question... there are some parallels and some apple/oranges there as well. can talk about later. eyes involuntarily closing at this point tonight

[Edited on June 26, 2015 at 12:26 AM. Reason : ]

6/26/2015 12:22:56 AM

Quote :

"but to see walmart and other major retailers cutting out products with the confederate flag on them... this isn't the TRUE tearing down of racial walls"

That's not what it's about dude. They do what benefits the bottom line.

Quote :

"the flag sent being flown by the state IS the problem"

Indeed it is. Companies and individuals, fly it all you want.

Quote :

"If I lived there I would not want it flying on a government building,"

Yup, and being a resident of North Carolina, I don't want it on our license plates either, and neither does McCrory (but yeah, in his case, that's totally opportunism)

6/26/2015 12:54:02 AM

Quote :

"I've seen so many people inflame the situation by calling people who do fly the rebel flag bigots, rednecks, sore losers (civil war), traitors"

WHO THE FUCK CARES? Fly it all you want assholes.

But to be clear, the people who fly that flag are the inflamers...this is like calling the people who yell at the Westboro asshole as the inflamers, instead of the Westboro assholes.

6/26/2015 12:59:31 AM

Quote :

"If I were a person who was flying the flag with the same intent Bo and Luke Duke had"

Yeah it's not about Bo and Luke dude. It's about this:

Quote :

"The new [Confederate] Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. ***This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution***" - Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens 1861 "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." - Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens 1861 "You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us" - President Lincoln 1860"

6/26/2015 1:02:04 AM

6/26/2015 6:37:53 PM

Fuck yo flag!

She the real MVP!

6/27/2015 11:37:29 AM

I agree with those who say that it is a part of a lot of people's heritage and if they want to hang one up on their private property then who cares, but a symbol of a country that doesn't even exist shouldn't be flying on government property.

6/27/2015 12:51:59 PM

No fucking respect..

6/27/2015 3:20:33 PM

Quote :

"I agree with those who say that it is a part of a lot of people's heritage and if they want to hang one up on their private property then who cares, but a symbol of a country that doesn't even exist shouldn't be flying on government property."

Exactly. Imagine the shitfit people would have if some state started flying the hammer and sickle above their statehouse, or the swastika.

Feel free to display it all day if you want, but it has no place flying above a government building.

6/27/2015 3:24:07 PM

6/27/2015 9:06:42 PM

Quote :

"Exactly. Imagine the shitfit people would have if some state started flying the hammer and sickle above their statehouse, or the swastika. Feel free to display it all day if you want, but it has no place flying above a government building."

I would have no problem with it being on government grounds though as long as it was at a state funded museum.

[Edited on June 27, 2015 at 9:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2015 9:44:56 PM

Replace all those confederate flags with Nazi flags and heads would explode

6/27/2015 9:47:35 PM

Oh look some cray cray ho from Raleigh done took down dat flag dat been holding her back

I bet she goes on to cure cancer or some shit now

6/27/2015 9:52:36 PM

Nope she went to jail, and 45 minutes later they put up a crisp new racist flag.

6/27/2015 9:55:39 PM

Did you hear the anguished cries of your ancestors as they made every unfolding of the new flag?

I bet they are now entitled to something they never knew existed before they were born

6/27/2015 10:21:09 PM

The NASCAR CEO finds the flag personally offensive

.......and has waited 53 years to tell anyone

6/27/2015 10:35:10 PM

Of course cannot step on any ones toes in the age of capitalism to make a buck

They are at Sonoma tomorrow and everyone is chomping at the bit to watch

Profits be damned before backbone!

6/27/2015 10:53:25 PM

http://gawker.com/racist-idiots-hold-pro-confederate-flag-rallies-across-1714438078

Quote :

""I had dinner with a black man last night""

Quote :

""Go back to where you came from!" "

"Heritage not hate" cough bullshit cough

Flag sympathizers, come on in and defend your racist friends.

[Edited on June 27, 2015 at 11:59 PM. Reason : ,]

6/27/2015 11:56:54 PM

Quote :

"I just got off a call with Obama, he has assured me this flag is next. "

No chance that Walmart ever removes that from their stores

6/28/2015 12:14:35 AM

It's a best seller.

6/28/2015 12:19:26 AM

man, my life has changed so much over the last few days

not

6/28/2015 12:48:14 AM

Quote :

"look some cray cray ho from Raleigh done took down dat flag dat been holding her back I bet she goes on to cure cancer or some shit now "

Lolz!!!!!!!

6/29/2015 1:08:09 AM

Quote :

"Tim Steadman said it wasn’t right to remove the flags. “Right now, this past week with everything that is going on, I feel very much like the Jews must have felt in the very beginning of the Nazi Germany takeover,” he said. “I mean I do feel that way, like there is a concerted effort to wipe people like me out, to wipe out my heritage and to erase the truths of history.”"

6/29/2015 9:17:12 AM

i feel like we should force all the people who want to fly that flag to live in ghettos and sew a flag patch on all their clothes.

6/29/2015 10:42:02 AM

They took down the confederate flag at my local Buffalo Wild Wings. This is worse than the holocaust.

6/29/2015 10:48:00 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/29/politics/supreme-court-affirmative-action-case-granted/index.html

How do you feel about this BlackJesus if we are all to live in a country as equals and eliminate racial tensions; shouldn't race not matter when applying for college?

6/29/2015 10:59:56 AM

Sure do away with affirmative action only if you remove race from every college application. Also remove the students name/address, and only make admission decisions based on the intellectual abilities, grades, test scores etc of each applicant.

If you don't want people getting a leg up because of race, you better make damn sure they aren't getting put down because of it. And eliminating it and any information that hints at it from the application is the only fair way to do it. But of course thats not what HUR and his racist friends want to hear.

Your next statement will be "lets get rid of minority scholarships", sure lets also get rid of majority scholarships. As a white person you benefit from your skin color, don't ever forget it.

[Edited on June 29, 2015 at 11:22 AM. Reason : ,]

6/29/2015 11:19:14 AM

Explain to me the mechanics of a flag pole, you have to climb up top to take it down? Must be a fun flag raising ceremony.

6/29/2015 11:54:23 AM

Your mom sure enjoyed it.

6/29/2015 11:56:33 AM

Quote :

"if we are all to live in a country as equals and eliminate racial tensions; shouldn't race not matter when applying for college?"

What you're looking for there is a comma you fucking idiot.

6/29/2015 12:24:31 PM

http://gawker.com/racist-idiots-hold-pro-confederate-flag-rallies-across-1714438078

Quote :

"Well at least they gave up the white hood and everybody knows who they are."

Quote :

"We should not call these people Confederate Flag supporters. We should call them traitors. Pro-slavery traitors. Every time you see or talk about the flag, remember the term: Pro-slavery traitors."

Quote :

"“Southern Lives Matter.” Say what you, will they do come up with good slogans and make a fine chicken and I do like touching their sheep-like hair."

6/29/2015 12:52:37 PM

Looks like SC is going to succeed.

6/29/2015 1:34:06 PM

6/29/2015 1:43:37 PM

http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/story/dale-earnhardt-jr-confederate-flag-comments-belongs-in-history-books-amy-reimann-children-062615

Quote :

""I think it's offensive to an entire race," Earnhardt said during his media availability at Sonoma Raceway. "It belongs in the history books and that's about it.""

Good for you Jr. I also heard that his dad removed his from his own home when a black lady who worked for him told him that it made her uncomfortable.

[Edited on June 29, 2015 at 1:59 PM. Reason : ]

6/29/2015 1:59:24 PM

Are there really any public figures besides the Duck Dynasty people who are going to publicly stand up for it, regardless of how they really feel? Dukes of Hazzard actors don't count.

6/29/2015 2:19:26 PM

I support your right to show your racism...

But the states who lost the war simultaneously lost the right to fly the flag over their offices.

6/29/2015 2:20:52 PM

^^^ http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/06/think_dale_earnhardt_defended.html

Quote :

"According to his daughter Kelley, Earnhardt had put one of those "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God" bumper stickers on one of his trucks. The bumper sticker included the Confederate battle flag. Earnhardt's housekeeper, a black woman, told him that flag made her uncomfortable. How did he respond? Did he rebel? Did he explain to her that she didn't understand history, that the flag was a symbol of heritage, not hate? No. He understood that different symbols mean different things to different people. If a symbol means hate to a large number of people, what message are you sending by displaying it or defending it? He went to his truck, cut out the flag part of the bumper sticker and discarded it."

6/29/2015 2:31:31 PM

6/29/2015 2:35:42 PM