Nice! Great time to bring it out to a RallyX this weekend!

3/1/2011 11:55:06 PM

Haha, with the dents too.


Where is the auto-x? Never done one and this would be my beater car for it.

3/2/2011 9:44:27 PM

Ok probably a dumb questiOn but, if you put the left head on the right side ( probably not possible I dint think the bolt pattern is symmetrical) and vise versa. Could you put the intake manifold on the bottom ( if you made one to dodge the oilpan) and the exhaust on top ?? I think you could run a shorter exhaust manifold that way.

3/2/2011 10:11:17 PM

events calendar:

http://www.thscc.com/general/info/calendar.php

Sign up!

3/2/2011 11:51:25 PM

lets go rally!

was able to drive a few laps in a WRX during setup day. it had intake/exhaust with rally tires and i must say that sucker was nice to drive in first gear in b00st.

but once you are in 2nd, you're screwed. ive been used to N/A and the "continuous" boost that I have when I hit the gas. my RS is very easy to handle on the dirt. but I got into this WRX thinking the same, but with just more juice.

first lap was all in 2nd gear (it wasnt my car so I treated it with some respect and drove in 2nd). lemme tell you that wasnt easy. boost would kick in mid turn and you'd have to control the car and it would throw your mind game off. i spend that whole first lap anticipating boost to kick in.

The second lap, the owner said to leave it in first around a few cones and such because i'd be in higher RPMs. I figured since he said I should that it was ok to do (since when he was driving all i hear was rev limiter, haha). So I did. and it made a world of difference since you didnt have to worry about when the tail end was gonna come out from under ya. but then id have to shift into 2nd and even then, i kind of got used it and it handle perdy good.

overall, im happy with my RS. i really saw the crumble of that turblow car when it started raining. all hell broke lose and they couldnt control the thing to save their lives.

+1 for N/A. lol


subaru turbo would have been a horrible choice for the race last weekend. haha
too slippery.

Turbo B00st got the best of the good racers when they couldnt get traction in this slop, even with rally tires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82oHtRw0xso

here is a dry run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENyAbBQjyKI

3/14/2011 2:03:19 PM

hahaha

yeah, in the afternoon, i was 23 seconds faster per run than their fastest time



I'm pretty badass though

3/14/2011 3:48:37 PM

lol reflash to Boost target = 0 map.

I don't remember what the stock waste-gate spring pressure is.

[Edited on March 14, 2011 at 3:53 PM. Reason : .]

3/14/2011 3:50:23 PM

Looks fun.

I've never done any rallycross or autocross, but I've already made my mind up that I would only do it with an n/a car or a turbo car that is basically unmodified engine-wise. It's gets very unpredictable as you come on and off boost.

3/14/2011 6:46:47 PM

antilag

3/14/2011 6:54:10 PM

Now that's a cold air intake...jeeebus (feeding a gt40r)



this is probably stupid but... do you think something like that would be hard to tune around... i'd like a great flowing exhaust but i really don't want the drone of one on my day to day commute... however when boost is being built fun is being had and the noise would be welcome...

I think getting a mid-pipe and y pipe and then welding this in as a "straight" option to a turn down at the y would be pretty cool. However i guess that would mean running a vacuum/boost hose all the way to the rear of the car.

I was thinking about using a vacuume line check valve but then it could still be a vacuum leak.







also seems like a neat idea but i think i'd prefer a real twinscroll to a rigged setup that would cause a spike in back pressure/egt.

[Edited on March 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2011 7:13:58 PM

why would anyone put a gt40r on a subaru? too much turbo and not enough displacement to keep the wheel spinnin most of the time, nevermind short gears.

[Edited on March 30, 2011 at 10:01 AM. Reason : .]

3/30/2011 10:00:53 AM

......... no its not.... not to mention its on a car with a built automatic & 5500rpm stall tq converter.

Seriously though a 40r isn't too big, a lot of people run precision & borg turbos that size.
it should run just fine for what he's going to use it for.... 9 second 1/4 miles...



i don't think that looks too bad for low boost.

Wouldn't be my turbo of choice... but doesn't look tooo bad.

[Edited on March 30, 2011 at 11:11 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 30, 2011 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

3/30/2011 11:10:24 AM

under 200hp and 200hp up to 4500rpm and decent power from 5250 on? just doesn't sound very fun for anything outside a straight line and even then i wouldn't want to drive it daily. if thats his dedicated drag car or he's happy with it, so be it I guess, just not my style....anymore

3/30/2011 8:07:31 PM

keep in mind a stock lgt puts down right around 196whp stock...

soo she's not bad..


i'd go twinscroll efr7064 efr7670 personally.... but thats me...

3/30/2011 8:09:57 PM

It's kind of weird to see how big power Subaru dyno sheets. They are nothing like what you see on most other 4 cylinders. They always have that flat-line powerband which almost looks like a step function. The torque band has a big hump in the mid range that tapers off. Even with heads and cams and different bottom end builds it's still the same basic shape besides shifting the powerband to the right on the graph. I think it has to do with the intake manifolds. There is basically no plenum volume on turbo Subarus.

Hondas and Evos/DSM's sheets almost never look like that unless there is a restriction somewhere. They have a much higher torque peak.

3/30/2011 9:42:50 PM

^ agreed.

No cossie manifolds help but most people don't care.
I agree that a larger...or really ant plenum might help. Also no obe makes much for a bigger dbw throttle body either. The cable guys go old mustang style sometimes but honestly I think people don't care because the ate afraid of the oiling and don't want to fall in love with revs... I thought it would be funny (ironic) if someone were to turn tgvs into itbs for the car with a huge boost plenum on top. I also think some of it is due to turbo choice an drivetrain loss. I'm betting that even this gt40 hits peak torque right in the bullseye of that compressor map and then marches right out of the efficiency island. And where on a 240 this graph would read ib the 700s due to drivetrain loss it's far short of that.

It also may be high rpm cars like bigger turbos. I mean an rb (@only2.6 liters) with this much money into it would have a gt42 or bigger on it.



Arghx, what are your thoughts on exhaust cutouts half of me thinks the are lame the rest thinks it's gotta be worth a couple hp and who cares how loud it is floored.

[Edited on March 30, 2011 at 9:54 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 30, 2011 at 10:04 PM. Reason : . Maybe our 7' header has something to do with it? ]

3/30/2011 9:54:16 PM

I'm getting something with a flat engine... And AWD!

3/30/2011 10:42:49 PM

^ are you finally going to man up?

3/30/2011 10:48:55 PM

Quote :

"It also may be high rpm cars like bigger turbos. I mean an rb (@only2.6 liters) with this much money into it would have a gt42 or bigger on it."

Recall the intake design on an RB26:



It has a sizeable plenum, bigger than a stock 2JZ plenum I think. Aftermarket intake manifolds are more available for I4 and I6 engines than boxer and V6 engines. How many Hondas do you see with an Edelbrock intake manifold? Or Supras with a Greddy manifold? Domestic V8's have even more intake manifold choices.

Quote :

"Arghx, what are your thoughts on exhaust cutouts half of me thinks the are lame the rest thinks it's gotta be worth a couple hp and who cares how loud it is floored."

It's something to fuck around with. Regarding the boost-activated one, you'd probably rock it for a little while and then get annoyed with it. I don't see why a vacuum line + check valve wouldn't work. You could even install a needle valve or ball-and-spring MBC inline to adjust the opening point. You would probably gain a little bit of volumetric efficiency but I wouldn't go advancing the timing or really try to push the tune. It's a lot of work (and increased risk IMO) for only a little return.

As for the quick spool valve, the same principle has been used by Honda and Mazda for years, although the implementation differed. Installing that quick spool valve into a universal flange makes sense for the product they are selling. The 87-88 Rx-7 had a quick spool valve built into the exhaust manifold:



It used a vacuum actuator, 3 port solenoid valve, and check valve to control it. Control was based on rpm only. The turbine housing was optimized with two different passages with different A/R scrolls.



Mazda switched to a true twin scroll system later. Honda has a similar system as the Rx-7 but the passage is built into the turbo:



Being much newer than Mazda's design, it has more sophisticated controls. As you'd expect, OEM implementations are going to be a lot better than Sound Performance just selling a flange with a boost control actuator attached to it.

3/30/2011 10:59:55 PM

The only OEM Subaru intake manifold I can think of with any kind of plenum. I think it comes off a random SOHC 2.5 liter engine from like 10 years ago. It doesn't work with an electronic throttle.

3/30/2011 11:03:55 PM

i'd have to wager that was the desired outcome of the above graph if it's a drag car, and therefore the reason for choosing that turbo. it's making peak torque right around the stall speed of the converter and peak hp not far after and holds nice, flat curves through redline. torque starts dropping off some, but by that time hp has long taken over and should be a non issue. looks perfect to me for putting the power to the ground very efficiently where you need it in a high stall drag car. running 9's with 608whp proves that assuming it hasn't had an excessive amount of weight reduction. you've also got to consider that the peak numbers and especially power under the curve is probably a little misleading due to the converter. i'd be curious to know if it's a lockup, and if so was the pull made locked or unlocked.

as for cutouts, why not just get an electric one if you're concerned about another vacuum line? you could always wire it through a micro switch like what's used to activate nitrous systems (wot or window) if you want it to automatically open at a pre determined throttle position or rpm.

3/30/2011 11:06:31 PM

Yes I forgot that he said it was on a car with a built auto. That would definitely take advantage of this particular powerband. But big power Subaru engines with manual transmission look pretty similar. Just translate the curve to the left maybe depending on the setup.

Quote :

"i'd be curious to know if it's a lockup, and if so was the pull made locked or unlocked."

I have no clue about Subaru automatic drag cars. I figure it's a modified version of the Subaru 4 or 5 speed trannies which all have electronic control over lockup through the ECU, just like an LS1 with a 4L60E.

Quote :

"as for cutouts, why not just get an electric one if you're concerned about another vacuum line? you could always wire it through a micro switch like what's used to activate nitrous systems (wot or window) if you want it to automatically open at a pre determined throttle position or rpm."

I guess the general criticism on electric cutouts is that the motor fails but I don't have firsthand knowledge. This particular Sound Performance product is a pneumatic cut out as you can see. An rpm window switch, solenoid valve, and vacuum line + check valve would yield the same final result as what you are suggesting.

3/30/2011 11:14:54 PM

Quote :

"I have no clue about Subaru automatic drag cars. I figure it's a modified version of the Subaru 4 or 5 speed trannies which all have electronic control over lockup through the ECU, just like an LS1 with a 4L60E."

correct, but you can still get non lockup converters, at least for the more commonly built od autos like the 4l60e. the first converter i had in my car when the trans was still stock was a tci non lockup (piece of junk btw). obviously as i'm sure you know, the lock up function can be adjusted and even disabled through the tune as well.

3/30/2011 11:49:44 PM

Hot damn this is a lot of talk/BS/gibberish.

Wtf y'all Remind me of a bunch of school girls.

Haha

3/31/2011 8:59:06 AM

i have to stop posting from my phone... i sound even more retarded than when i normally post.

3/31/2011 10:51:34 AM

^^IT'S ROO TURBO TALK, BRAH!

4/2/2011 6:08:20 PM

So I've been driving my buddy's 2005 STi, the one with I tuned with the Blouch 18G-XT, for the past couple days. I must say, I'm definitely having fun driving this thing around. The Subaru midrange torque is a welcome change from some of the high-strung stuff I've been messing with lately. The 6 speed's ratios really invites you to bang through the gears, which is fun for a while although it becomes tiresome. I really have to pay attention to stay off the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd especially.

This particular turbo has 10cm^2 hotside. One thing I will say: I don't understand why more people don't use this size of hotside on turbo upgrades for the 2.5L engines. There is very little difference in part throttle response from the factory-sized hotside which is 7cm^2. For a modified engine boost builds pretty easily in 6th on the highway. Even though on paper it might look less responsive, it feels like a stock turbo still.

4/7/2011 1:44:11 PM

except it doesn't nose over on the big end...

I've been trying to figure out just how far i want to dig into the legacy...
Part of me wants to go full bore but i want a fast dd so the biggest i think i'll go is a 20g.

I'd really like a 30r but a 20g on e85 makes plenty of power to mangle a bottom end.
any more than that i'll want another car and then it would need to be fast too and blah blah blah back were i started so i think i'll keep the 'roo faster than most and build a 60's something with my other motor and have weekend fun.


whats the whp on the 18g xt??

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

4/7/2011 2:13:22 PM

Quote :

"I've been trying to figure out just how far i want to dig into the legacy... Part of me wants to go full bore but i want a fast dd so the biggest i think i'll go is a 20g. "

It's a lot easier to make torque than it is to make power on a Subaru 2.5 . The displacement is too low to handle really big turbos like on a V8. The heads, manifolds, etc just don't like to make top end power either. Compare that to say a B series Honda that can keep pulling and pulling up top especially when you change out the intake manifold and cams. Midrange torque is what these engines are good at, and trying to do anything else with it is going to be an uphill climb.

Quote :

"whats the whp on the 18g xt??"

Well here is a dyno sheet comparing what this STi did and what an Rx-7 on stock sequential turbos did. The two plots are actually on two different dynojets but I combined the run files on to a single sheet for comparison purposes. The Rx-7 was in 3rd and the STi was in 4th on that run. Both are uncorrected numbers; ambient conditions were hotter for the Rx-7. The plots are relatively noisy. Half the stuff you see floating around Subaru forums are heavily smoothed.

The STi was running about 20psi peak, falling to about 19 by redline. It was using the stock intercooler. It really wouldn't take any more timing, nor was I willing to lean it out further. I had to dial it back some because the knock sensor kept going off. Even then it still picks up knock in between shifts which is a bunch of BS. I haven't yet looked at some of the additional knock sensor sensitivity tables that are supposed to be in the latest AccessTuner update.

I was happy with the numbers on the STi given that it is a bolt-on turbo with stock intercooler and not much else done besides turboback exhaust. I think the stuff you see online is pretty inflated. These engines consistently do around 230whp on a dynojet completely stock so this is a good 75whp increase.

[Edited on April 7, 2011 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .]

4/7/2011 2:51:56 PM

^ ohh i agree even the mustang/DD guys put in a 1.1 correction factor now just so they don't look like incompetent tuners compared to the DJ people. I pretty much look for 1/4 mile MPH on cars to judge them... you' can be a really crappy driver and still be within a mph or 2 of what an awesome driver would do with the same hp/weight ratio

4/7/2011 3:08:01 PM

even 1/4 mile mph can be heavily affected by gearing when you aren't comparing very similar cars. Every metric has its downsides.

4/7/2011 3:40:42 PM

^I'm assumming foo1's statement is regarding the average HP calculated over the run, no?

4/7/2011 4:20:33 PM

ohh i agree on that too.

4/7/2011 5:19:07 PM

Can the V8/V9 Spec C intake be converted to DBW?

4/8/2011 2:25:52 PM

No idea, but if I had to guess it can be done but not with any kind of readily available (non-custom) parts

4/8/2011 6:57:20 PM

found one complete with fuel rails and top feed injectors for cheap

4/8/2011 7:45:32 PM

lol azn on azn insults...

4/15/2011 3:03:37 PM

i watched some of those vids because i was interested in the cars and that shit was awful. most of them were really bad drivers that just had some money. the porsche was a goddamn automatic and the gtr driver left it in auto mode.

4/16/2011 9:41:32 AM

Fuck Royal Purple.

4/16/2011 11:21:01 AM

Please don't run a 20w50 in a subaru motor....

4/16/2011 11:45:14 AM

kinda bummed i was planning on up and downpipe next month but it doesn't seem like its in the cards...

ohh well.




[Edited on April 16, 2011 at 11:55 AM. Reason : .]

4/16/2011 11:46:08 AM

EBCS EWG flutter how does one tune for big boost and not have it sound/act like this.
It can't be good for the engine or turbo.

i know its all in the wastgate dynamics without an ebcs but can it still be controlled with ebcs?

[Edited on April 17, 2011 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

4/17/2011 8:54:43 AM

it is all in who does the tune, I have never had a car we have tuned sound anything like that. but some of what people refer to as "flutter" on the subaru is the electronic boost controller rapidly cycling open and closed to regulate boost. But we usually also do not do external wastegates or manual boost controllers.

4/17/2011 11:10:02 AM

rotella T6 all day homey

4/17/2011 12:40:42 PM

^^ it's always on "e85" tunes it seems... so i'm assuming the turbine is choked so the wastegate is just doing the best it can... does ebcs always do it??

4/17/2011 12:55:36 PM

Supertech is great for turbo cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4/17/2011 1:13:28 PM

Quote :

"EBCS EWG flutter how does one tune for big boost and not have it sound/act like this. "

The first thing you do is try changing the plumbing (which will usually require adjustment of the tune afterwards). There are many ways you can configure an external gate with a 3 port EBCS. These two are the most common:





but there are variations of those even. For example, you can run a dedicated hose to the side port of the gate and then a dedicated hose to the solenoid which then goes to the top of the gate. You can also try sourcing your pressure from after the intercooler.

4/17/2011 3:47:40 PM

super tech is good stuff, most of it tests just as well or better than the "premium" brands. especially their tcw3 i know. manufactured by penzoil iirc?

4/20/2011 2:38:09 AM

Penzoil is just shell anyway might as well go to the source.

And super tech is a "low bidder" oil ... like craftsman power tools/garden products... cheapest company to meet the specs gets the contract and it changes when the contract expires.

[Edited on April 20, 2011 at 7:53 AM. Reason : .]

4/20/2011 7:51:10 AM

beg to differ on the Pennsoil is shell, I have my oil tested via blackstone, and of all the oil tests I have run the pennsoil was the worst! the viscosity was bas, it had completely broken down. Vs all of the shell oils I have run have come back with clean bills of health.

4/20/2011 10:20:19 PM