had to mess around in Win8 today to try and fix my mom's ish today, and it was clunky as hell. The lack of a start menu made things so much more difficult, as I had to scroll through a bunch of shit on the tiles screen just to see what was actually on the computer and what my available options were. And if I didn't save something as a tile, but I wanted to run it again, then I had to go through that whole rigmarole again, as opposed to just *gasp* typing the first few letters into a start menu.

and let's not even get started on the fact that it now takes at least 5 seconds to get to the point where you can click "restart". Clunky. As. Shit.

but, hey, I can pay 5 bux to get something back that should have never been taken away in the first place...

I use the keyboard for most navigation, especially when selecting random assed programs, and Win8 completely takes that ability away from me for no damned reason. I can understand not supporting keyboard navigation well on a tablet, but on a desktop where you expect there to be a keyboard by default? What in the hell, folks?

12/1/2012 11:15:07 PM

On the start screen, you can just start typing and it will automatically start searching like in Windows 7. Except if you're looking for a control panel item, then you have to navigate to under the search box and select "control panel" as what you want to search in. In Windows 7, it would show control panel items in the start menu under "control panel" category.

I agree, it is clunky as shit.

12/1/2012 11:37:57 PM

Quote :

"as opposed to just *gasp* typing the first few letters into a start menu."

You can do this in the win8 start menu. I posted a video of it earlier in the thread.

12/2/2012 1:48:22 AM

We run VMWare for everything at work and my host machine was still sitting back at Win XP x64, so I decided it was time for an upgrade.

I also decided to leapfrog Win 7 and go directly to Win 8. I guess I'll see what it's all about over the next little while.

12/4/2012 12:27:19 PM

Pretty good so far. The only complaint I have is that if you personalize the window borders to be black you can't see the text in the window border as it is also black. The only way I've seen to change this is go the high contrast route. It lets you change text color but it also makes the UI look like something from the Window 3.1 days.

I guess I could go the high contrast route and fiddle with one until it doesn't look like crap, still it seems like being able to change the window border color but not having an easy option to change the window border text is a large oversight IMO.

Maybe it's right there in front of my face and I'm just missing it.

12/4/2012 2:38:23 PM

Quote :

"You can do this in the win8 start menu. I posted a video of it earlier in the thread."

How in the hell did he do what appears to be a moderate amount in the start screen without even accidentally discovering this?

12/4/2012 5:05:49 PM

^Because he is one of the most narrow-minded curmudgeons that has ever existed.

12/4/2012 5:34:15 PM

If I were a narrow-minded curmudgeon I would at least TRY what I was used to before I complained that it didn't exist. I mean, that seems like part of being a narrow-minded curmudgeon.

12/5/2012 12:22:29 AM

I have been reading about the 'disappointing' sales of Windows 8, so I am trying to figure out the rationale of why anyone with Windows 7 would upgrade. Nothing is wrong with W7 and its great. W8 I think should have been in the place of W7 or they should have waited. This is crazy to have so many software iterations. Same goes for Android with all of their iterations, the shit is really starting to get annoying ... only putting certain versions on certain hardware and not upgrade them all across the board, and I do understand that cell companies probably decide that, but still its all crazy.

12/5/2012 12:36:17 PM

I thought their upgrade numbers were good, it was just new computer sales that were bad

... and that makes sense because most aren't even available till 1st quarter next year

12/5/2012 12:39:29 PM

I am also reading how W8 did not stimulate the PC gaming market?? Really ... no REALLY thought W8 would stimulate the PC gaming market ... right? It feels like W7 has not too long JUST been released and here we are again with yet another version of Windows that has gotten so much flak I don't even know how they can sell it without selling new devices.

12/5/2012 12:49:55 PM

Quote :

"I am trying to figure out the rationale of why anyone with Windows 7 would upgrade"

historically, i'm just as happy to piss and moan about microsoft as compliment them

and, truthfully, i still stand by my complaints that 7 brought unnecessary changes that have done exactly jack shit to improve efficiency (ie. the windows XP method was just as quick - if not quicker - and the changes in 7 were in no way beneficial, just different)

that said, i upgraded because it was cheap ($16 after tax i can do, but i never would have paid $40) and 8 is inarguably faster...that alone made it worth it to me despite the dumbshit things microsoft did to make 8 a less-than-ideal non-touchscreen OS

12/5/2012 12:58:52 PM

I like Windows a lot, and I just ordered a new laptop and I am sure I will enjoy it. However, I see no compelling to upgrade my W7 devices unless it was absolutely for free, and even then I am so used to W7 I would probably just pass on the upgrade.

12/5/2012 1:21:49 PM

The more I use Windows 8 the more I'm discovering little unaddressable nits here and there. That and the completely useless apps that have no options to change behavior to something someone would actually find useful (read: opinion) tells me that Windows 8 is the bridge to something better in the future as opposed to an end product that Windows 7 was bridging to.

It is faster though. The weather app is nice, all other apps are now unpinned. I don't want to create a MS account, so that alone ruled out 90% of the Windows prepackaged apps. I suspect better apps are down the road, but again that points to Windows 8 being a bridge to a more polished product in the future. Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully a future SP will add missing bits back and address other issues. New Apps can come out any time.

And there were several improvements from XP to Win 7. Much more than from Win 7 to 8. Again, opinion.

I'll probably move my wife to Windows 8, but I'll keep my home PC at Win 7 for a while longer. I'm not thoroughly convinced that vmware has made all the changes necessary for running VMs on Windows 8, so I don't want to deal with those problems at home.

[Edited on December 5, 2012 at 2:48 PM. Reason : -benefit of doubt]

12/5/2012 2:42:40 PM

make a MS account to use skydrive. seriously. it's awesome, and absolutely fantastic if you use microsoft office and onenote.

12/5/2012 4:51:39 PM

garbage software. absolutely garbage.

google drive >>>>>>>>>>> skydrive

12/5/2012 11:21:31 PM

Quote :

"and, truthfully, i still stand by my complaints that 7 brought unnecessary changes that have done exactly jack shit to improve efficiency "

I use the absolute shit out of Win+Left, Win+Right, and Win+Up. It was the best addition to Windows 7 by a longshot and was worth the price of upgrading alone.

12/6/2012 12:56:57 AM

Quote :

"garbage software. absolutely garbage. google drive >>>>>>>>>>> skydrive"

I would genuinely like to know why you think so. I went from being a Live Mesh person to DropDox, briefly to Amazon CloudDrive, back to DropBox and just recently back to SkyDrive when they turned on paid storage, and now that they've turned on selective folder syncing it works exactly like I want it to.

12/6/2012 1:37:32 AM

^^ Yeah I use the snapping option a lot too. Is that still in W8?

12/6/2012 9:13:34 AM

^Yes, still there.

Probably old but just in case:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1899865

Lets you use the image you want on things you add to the Start screen. Another little nit that makes me feel like Windows 8 was half-baked. Why isn't there an easy way to change the appearance of a tile? You're just stuck with a mostly empty tile with the program icon in the middle.

[Edited on December 6, 2012 at 1:39 PM. Reason : -]

12/6/2012 1:36:28 PM

My biggest problem (there might be more, but I hit this one and gave up on it for now) is with the default browser/metro tie in. If I install chrome, and want to use it in desktop mode, it can't be the default browser -- if it is, it forces itself into metro. AFAIK that's just how it works and I wasn't doing anything wrong. I tried using it with IE as the default so I could use chrome in desktop mode, but that still sucked anytime some other program tried to open a webpage.

12/6/2012 2:27:17 PM

What I think is lame is that Xbox Music or Youtube videos stop playing when I alt-tab out of Metro to a Desktop application. Especially Xbox Music. Why the jesus would it not keep playing when I alt-tab?

12/6/2012 3:49:16 PM

OK, I finally got my hands on my W8 machine, and I have to say that I love W8 so far. I can see how W8 can be wholly annoying and off-putting but if you read the package inserts on how to use its basic functions it makes it a breeze. It a hard transition of not having a Start menu on the Desktop but it not a big problem for me since I am having an open-mind about it, and the fact that you can just start typing in the Metro screen makes it a lot easier. Also, the touch pad does not seem to work as good with Firefox as it does with I ... hmm is this a conspiracy? LOL probably not, but whatev. I am sure there are some things I will run into and not like, but at least so far I can say I got love for it.

12/8/2012 10:34:59 AM

Quote :

"What I think is lame is that Xbox Music or Youtube videos stop playing when I alt-tab out of Metro to a Desktop application. Especially Xbox Music. Why the jesus would it not keep playing when I alt-tab?"

I haven't had this issue at all (with Xbox music) until last night. Paired a new Bluetooth headset and it started doing this to me too.

Go to your volume icon, right click, Playback devices. The select the current default device, click on properties and under one of the tabs will be a check box "Allow programs to use this device exclusively". Uncheck that, restart Xbox music and bam it fixed the problem for me.

12/8/2012 1:01:06 PM

I think imago upgrade to Win8...

12/8/2012 9:38:13 PM

What are some good apps other than the typical good ones like Netflix for example?

12/8/2012 11:00:34 PM

Quote :

"I would genuinely like to know why you think so. I went from being a Live Mesh person to DropDox, briefly to Amazon CloudDrive, back to DropBox and just recently back to SkyDrive when they turned on paid storage, and now that they've turned on selective folder syncing it works exactly like I want it to. "

My only experience with Amazon is their cloud storage with respect to MP3 purchases. I actually back those up on my GDrive as well.

Currently I have GDrive synched across my notebook, desktop and droid and it has worked flawlessly. Combined with the ability to create sharing links for people, the doc/office support and the collaboration capabilities with others it's been great. On top of that I'm paying less than $10 a month for 100gb of storage (in addition to the 25gb of GMail space). I like Microsoft for the most part but absolutely despise their email/cloud systems, probably more out of principal than for lack of functionality or anything.

12/9/2012 12:33:13 AM

Have you used it recently? Why do you despise it? It was crappy to mediocre a couple updates ago, but its really nice now. The web interface is by far the best out of any others, also easily the most attractive to use.

There is nothing wrong with Googke drive, but Skydrive does the same thing plus allows you to selectively sync files plus is fully integrated into Windows 8 and Office 13 plus images show inline as cards on twitter.

[Edited on December 9, 2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason : I've used Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, and Skydrive extensively ]

12/9/2012 12:58:46 AM

Quote :

"Currently I have GDrive synched across my notebook, desktop and droid and it has worked flawlessly. Combined with the ability to create sharing links for people, the doc/office support and the collaboration capabilities with others it's been great. On top of that I'm paying less than $10 a month for 100gb of storage (in addition to the 25gb of GMail space). I like Microsoft for the most part but absolutely despise their email/cloud systems, probably more out of principal than for lack of functionality or anything."

Yeah Skydrive does all that too (now). I pay $50/yr for 127gb of storage.
Skydrive has ACTUAL Doc/Office support with Word/Excel/PPT Web Apps that are a lot more usable than the google apps were. Link sharing, groups, etc are all there for SkyDrive too.

Honestly I tried out GDrive too, and like I said went back to SkyDrive as soon as they got folder specific syncing because it's cheaper than google and has a better web experience (web interface + office web apps).

12/9/2012 1:38:34 AM

I agree. Skydrive > GDrive.

Also, I got the Dell Inspiron Duo (flip screen hybrid) and I couldn't be more pleased with Windows 8 now. The OS definitely caters to this sort of hardware. It wasn't too bad on a keyboard / mouse, but a hybrid laptop / tablet is truly where Windows 8 shines.

12/10/2012 9:50:43 AM

I haven't read this entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been brought up.

I can't get my iPod to sync with iTunes in Windows 8. Every time I try to sync it, I get the Blue Screen of Death with the error "WDF_Violation". I have searched Google and found several articles about the issue, but haven't found a resolution yet. I figured I would ask here. Any thoughts?

12/10/2012 11:10:25 AM

update your drivers

12/10/2012 12:13:21 PM

g-damn I've gotten stuck at "Finalizing your settings" twice, but at least the rollback was all good; now methinks Noen deffo knew what he was talking about when he said that attempting an in-place upgrade, saving all programs and settings, was a bad idea (before I thout it was just caution triggered by memories of the bad old days)

12/12/2012 3:20:44 AM

^Even MSIT doesn't use the in-place upgrade path. If you choose "upgrade" it basically copies an image of your current drive to a network location, formats, installs Win8, then copies your shit back over and imports everything it can.

12/12/2012 6:26:15 AM

the thing that probably irritates me the most (after many several months of regular use at the point) is it takes too many actions to restart

Win + I -> down x 5 -> right -> enter -> up -> enter
or Win + D -> Alt + F4

it's been "difficult" to get in the habit of doing either. i wish you could type 'restart' from the start screen and get a search result that would immediately initiate a reboot.

[Edited on December 18, 2012 at 10:57 PM. Reason : fuck it, i'm going to submit an app to the app store called reboot]

12/18/2012 10:56:07 PM

How often do you restart

12/18/2012 11:03:51 PM

so far, i've rebooted 3 times.

12/18/2012 11:08:56 PM

Can you not just create a shortcut to "shutdown /r /t 0" ?

12/19/2012 7:54:58 AM

Quote :

"Can you not just create a shortcut to "shutdown /r /t 0" ?"

even if he can, why SHOULD he? windows 8 for use on a "traditional" laptop or desktop simply isn't intuitive...it's a frequent and valid complaint

12/19/2012 9:27:14 AM

Personally I wouldn't worry about removing a couple steps from something I've only had to do 3 times in several months

12/19/2012 10:11:26 AM

in any case, start8 fixes microsoft's stupidity in this way and many others

12/19/2012 10:36:35 AM

Yeah, it's like a once in every two-plus weeks problem.

If only he could easily perform a task he does irregularly!

12/19/2012 10:42:24 AM

so, what's wrong with mousing to the top right, clicking settings, then clicking power, and clicking restart?

12/19/2012 12:59:18 PM

3 times was a joke intended to acknowledge how trivial my irritation is

On the reals though, probably at least 5 times a week between work and home PCs

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 1:05 PM. Reason : ^ cus i like the win + type stuff workflow a lot more than mousing]

12/19/2012 1:04:30 PM

^ +1

I always prefer the keyboard versus mousing around. Bonus now is I don't hit win+r anymore, now it's just win.

12/19/2012 1:08:34 PM

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2027028

and

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1897359

12/19/2012 1:58:16 PM

it's so sad really when you have to hack/modify something to do stuff so simple.

12/19/2012 5:13:19 PM

just discovered today that start8 lets me disable the hot corners (charms bar) that have no value whatsoever (to me)

getting close to really loving windows 8, though

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 8:11 PM. Reason : .]

12/19/2012 7:57:44 PM

Quote :

"3 times was a joke intended to acknowledge how trivial my irritation is On the reals though, probably at least 5 times a week between work and home PCs"

Understood. I hated when Win7 removed Win -> U -> R as a way to reboot.

12/19/2012 8:33:27 PM

^^ yeah start8 was well worth the 4.99. It made win8 completely worthwhile as an upgrade on my desktop and laptop.

12/19/2012 9:09:53 PM