Quote :

"Or, you know, the truth. The United States isn't, and hasn't been for a very long time, the global standard for freedom and civil liberties. Again, we've been detaining American citizens for tens, if not hundreds of years. Remember internment camps for Japanese people during World War II? They didn't even have the luxury of being accused of terrorist activities first. Their only crime was looking like a Japanese person. Talk to someone who hasn't lived here for most of their lives, and you'll find that we are the laughing stock of the developed (and most of the non-developed) world on basically every social issue. Look at our healthcare system for god sakes. When I tell my Canadian relatives that I have to spend $1500 out of my own pocket before my coverage kicks in, they look at me like a crazy person. Yesterday, I paid $75 for a band-aid, some neosporin, and a piece of paper referring me to specialist for a lesion on my knee. And I'm sure I'll get another bill in the mail for that "service". I don't "support" Obama because I thought he would reverse decades of conservative fuckery on day one. I voted for him because I wanted to stem the tide, and at least start things moving in the other direction. Despite being having to prioritize the failing economy (which by the way, has added jobs literally every single month he's been President, after losing 7-8 million at the tail end of the previous administration) Dubya dropped at his feet, he's done that on many issues including health care, education, and foreign policy. And he's done it with half the legislative branch opposing every single policy he's proposed, not on merit, but simply because he's the one proposing them. Given the extraordinary circumstances surrounding his Presidency, including having to hold a fucking press conference on his eligibility to be President 2 years AFTER being elected, he's definitely met my expectations."

Good points. Given all of that, and the fact that the stocks have skyrocketed since he took over, what is with the low approval ratings?

12/15/2011 1:58:34 PM

The GOP hated him on day one, and his own supporters have gotten progressively more angry at him for capitulating to the GOP over and over and over again.

12/15/2011 2:04:51 PM

12/15/2011 2:28:44 PM

Quote :

"Good points. Given all of that, and the fact that the stocks have skyrocketed since he took over, what is with the low approval ratings?"

AT LEAST INVESTORS ARE DOING WELL LOL

I'm done being civil. You people deserve what is coming to you. Ignorance is no excuse. We've tried to help you, but you can't be helped. You are zealots. You are the people that history will look to in bewilderment. "How could they have just stood by while their freedoms were being stripped away? Wait, they actually supported it?"

If any of this had been done by the Bush admin, you'd all be outraged. There's absolutely no doubt. But, it's Obama, so the best you've got is, "Well, this isn't really anything new." No shit!

From me (real life, no online persona here): you make me sick.

12/15/2011 3:59:50 PM

Quote :

"which by the way, has added jobs literally every single month he's been President, after losing 7-8 million at the tail end of the previous administration"

do you even bother to read what you write? I mean, even the graph you and others like to post says exactly the fucking opposite of this. jesus christ, dude.

Quote :

"Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force."

that disclaimer is absolute bullshit. If the text, itself, of other sections explicitly expands powers of detention, then that disclaimer is useless.

12/15/2011 4:26:30 PM

Quote :

"Have you been paying any attention? The bill doesn't change anything. Again, it literally says, Quote : ""Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force."" "

A) If the bill doesn't change anything, why the need for the bill in the first place?

B) Communist China called themselves a Republic, banks, ratings agencies and regulators said CDSs were perfectly safe grade A investments, pirate sites reference a non existent Internet Privacy Act of 1995 (or 1996) like a magical talisman, and cigarettes were healthy living in the 50's. Just because you say something doesn't make it so.

12/15/2011 8:18:29 PM

^
Not to nitpick, but don't you mean CDOs? I'm not aware of CDSs receiving ratings.

I could be wrong, though.


Also, I haven't looked too closely into it, but if the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens story is as drastic as some say, then Obama loses boatloads of credibility.

(Speaking of boatloads, I read somewhere that it most likely would be used to detain activists that join flotillas attempting to reach Palestine.)

It's left me so dumbfounded that I found myself unable to call his campaign staff regarding a completely separate issue today.

Will have to research this over the weekend.

[Edited on December 15, 2011 at 11:56 PM. Reason : ]

12/15/2011 11:45:40 PM

Quote :

"I read somewhere that it most likely would be used to detain activists that join flotillas attempting to reach Palestine."

Haha...as stupid as that is, it's probably true. Can't help those little brown Palestinians, you know.

12/16/2011 12:10:05 AM

Is anyone else in the camp of "liberal who supported Obama in '08 but has completely lost faith in the prez due to his continuing and expansion of Bush's war policies and attacks on individual privacy and liberties, his complete reliance on wall street insiders for economic policy guidance, his unwillingness to prosecute the criminal corporate elite and his acceptance of record-breaking amounts of campaign contributions from the financial industry and special interests, his inability to take a strong stand for the middle class and for gay rights, his complete neglect of the poverty-stricken minorities including blacks, his acceleration of deportations and his support of the secret detainment prisons that form the ICE infrastructure, his inability to lead and demand the respect of congress and the American populace and his weakness in negotiating any sort of compromise with congress that is not simply a handout to the other side" and is looking for actual progressive options to support in 2012 for real liberty?

I would like to know what options you guys have been looking at. I have been following Ron Paul and keeping an eye on the Justice Party and Americans Elect but would like to hear what others in my lot have been exploring.

12/16/2011 10:59:28 AM

Quote :

"Is anyone else in the camp of "liberal who supported Obama in '08 but has completely lost faith in the prez due to his continuing and expansion of Bush's war policies and attacks on individual privacy and liberties,"

I'm by no means a liberal, but I did vote for obama. I knew what I was going to get economically, and begrudgingly accepted that with the expectation of foreign policy change and civil liberty protection....Needless to say, I have experienced serious buyers remorse and will not be repeating that vote, nor will I likely be voting for the repub candidate, so it looks like i'll be 'throwing my vote away' in 2012.

12/16/2011 11:35:21 AM

http://goo.gl/ilVbp - RealClearPolitics link

Quote :

"The issue here is not gonna be a list of accomplishments. As you said yourself, Steve, you know, I would put our legislative and foreign policy accomplishments in our first two years against any president -- with the possible exceptions of Johnson, F.D.R., and Lincoln -- just in terms of what we've gotten done in modern history. But, you know, but when it comes to the economy, we've got a lot more work to do. And we're gonna keep on at it."

I'll say it again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#Diagnosis

Quote :

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines narcissistic personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as: A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: 1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 4. Requires excessive admiration 5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her 9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes"

[Edited on December 18, 2011 at 10:40 PM. Reason : url shortener]

12/18/2011 10:39:22 PM

^ what is your point?

You can use that to describe the leader of any nation, ever...

although i think obama has too much empathy, for a prez.

[Edited on December 18, 2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason : ]

12/18/2011 10:40:48 PM

+100

Obama magical powers have killed Kim Jong Il

12/18/2011 10:49:11 PM

So gas prices have been plummeting (stations here in SLC are near $2.90/gal) while the barrel of oil has been increasing or holding steady. The reason? Demand. Maybe cash for clunkers, setting mpg standards (zomg evil regulations), and forcing the US auto industry (zomg socialism) to start producing more fuel efficient cars weren't such terrible ideas after all.

12/19/2011 3:57:30 PM

why is building a fuel efficient/ electric / hybrid car = (zomg) socialism and regulations are suddenly good?

the volt is the only product of socialism here.... and it is failing horribly and losing money. despite the billions in support it had from it's current CEO barack obama, it still failed.


leaf/tesla/prius/etc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> volt

(i'm not even knocking the volt, just it's shitty management from top to bottom and how much tax money it stole to get it off the ground)

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM. Reason : ,]

12/19/2011 4:12:03 PM

Quote :

"the volt is the only product of socialism here.... and it is failing horribly and losing money. despite the billions in support it had from it's current CEO barack obama, it still failed."

What? The Volt was a mismanaged piece of crap long before The White House stepped in. Bush was the one that threw $19.4B at GM without actually forcing them to get their act together first. The Obama administration engineered the bankruptcy, restructure, and eventual transformation into a profitable company that makes fuel efficient cars people actually want to buy. The Volt is a red herring, they make at least a dozen cars that get 30+ mpg today. But don't let facts get in the way of your irrational criticism.

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 4:36 PM. Reason : :]

12/19/2011 4:30:13 PM

^amazing how people selectively remember their history.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-admin-admits-govt-will-lose-14-billion-on-auto-bailout/

I guess you failed to remember that the Obama admin basically ignored bankruptcy laws in this country and moved the unions into a better position.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=awCyiNlvcfUA

It is politics as usual, but open your eyes man.

12/19/2011 7:55:44 PM

I think the gas demand drop is less about Obama's policies and more about how shitty the economy is.

Although, I guess an argument can be made that the economy sucks because of Obama's policies, and hence the decline in gas prices is because of that.

[Edited on December 19, 2011 at 8:02 PM. Reason : ;]

12/19/2011 8:01:29 PM

^^ would you rather the gov. keep GM's stock and not lose money, or sell the stock, have no stake in GM, and lose money?

And the whole point of the bailouts were to stop the hundreds of thousands of auto workers from going unemployed at once, it wouldn't have made sense to screw the workers when you're expending so much effort to help them.

12/19/2011 9:57:56 PM

Quote :

"So gas prices have been plummeting (stations here in SLC are near $2.90/gal) while the barrel of oil has been increasing or holding steady. The reason? Demand. Maybe cash for clunkers, setting mpg standards (zomg evil regulations), and forcing the US auto industry (zomg socialism) to start producing more fuel efficient cars weren't such terrible ideas after all."

really? are you that god damned stupid to make such a statement. yes, setting fuel economy standards for 10 years down the road or whatever it was is really affecting the price of fuel today. seriously dude, you sound dumber than hooksaw, or, hell, ME, when you say stupid shit like that.

12/19/2011 10:09:43 PM

^^wow. you say that shit with such ease. btw moron, here's your little auto bailout:

TOTAL US COST OF THE FIRST GULF WAR ------------------> $24 billion
AMOUNT OBAMA GIVES TO GM AND DETROIT--------------> $80.1 billion

12/19/2011 11:58:04 PM

So if you (or anyone really) were president, you would have let the 100,000 to 500,000 auto workers concentrated largely in 1 geographic area just lose their job? You realize McCain suspended his campaign to make sure the auto bailouts went through? Congress rushed it through, and Bush signed it...?

LOL, that would have made you the BEST PRESIDENT EVER, i'm sure.

12/20/2011 12:06:47 AM

you are absolutely insane, and it proves all you do is read warped talking points blindely. tarp was supposed to liquidate the market from universal bank failure not buy up corporations in the true proletariat anarchist communist style you preach daily here.

but hey at least BHO saved 400k amuricahn jerbzz in deetroit while losing millions elsewhere throughout the country selectively!

keep blindly spewing lies.

12/20/2011 12:31:50 AM

tarp != auto bailouts

LULZ

I don't get how you can be okay with hundreds of thousands of people losing their job, for no real good reason. Just because you are "uneasy" with the concept of government.

It's like you don't even try to think about the scale of these problems and their effects.

Not to mention that nationalizing the car companies and other manufacturing helped us win World War II. The government really needs to take a page from the Greatest Generation and take a more active role in maintaining equal opportunities for all americans and small businesses with corporations.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 12:48 AM. Reason : ]

12/20/2011 12:39:26 AM

you have literally no grounds to ever be taken seriously again

ha you have some serious mental issues if you think anybody but obama would have selectively thrown 80billion at chevrolet and GM to save his crony fucking labor unions.

you forgot how he randomly capped CEO salaries at 500k. you know. all part of the original TARP plan.

LOL







[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 12:52 AM. Reason : ,]

12/20/2011 12:50:12 AM

Quote :

"ha you have some serious mental issues if you think anybody but obama would have selectively thrown 80billion at chevrolet and GM to save his crony fucking labor unions. "

You would have done the exact same thing, and almost everyone else here would have.

Quote :

"you forgot how he randomly capped CEO salaries at 500k. "

LOL

championing the cause of CEOs. Because THAT'S who's suffering right now. What a tool.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 12:52 AM. Reason : ]

12/20/2011 12:51:37 AM

Quote :

"I don't get how you can be okay with hundreds of thousands of people losing their job,"

yeh buddy. save your friends in detroit. fuck everybody else! save your pals city up in michigan. i can't wait to see your face when they fail again in < 10 years.

for your sake, i hope there's another fascist in office who can prop them up with your welfare dollars you work for daily

12/20/2011 12:53:47 AM

and LOL at you supporting 500k salary caps. why not take it down to 200k or 100k while you're at it. and then do it for everybody LOL.

LOLOL @ communists trying to gain traction. you're forever going to be mocked and laughed at just like OWS was laughed at until it died.

the earth is and has been rejecting your ideas more and more moron. socialism and communism is being rejected all across the earth slowly. how does it feel to be oozing out of existence slowly? tell us how that feels...


[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 12:57 AM. Reason : ,]

12/20/2011 12:55:23 AM

Just because you are too "ignorant" to not perceive solutions that don't involve letting families, cities, and industries collapse doesn't mean everyone else is burdened with your same inabilities.

A good lesson you should learn in life is that not everyone is like you (thank goodness). You can't and shouldn't project your own failings on to other.

And Germany has salary caps, did you know that? And they are one of the most solvent, financially stable countries in Europe. What's that you were saying about oozing...?

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 1:01 AM. Reason : ]

12/20/2011 12:58:28 AM

ho boy he played the ignorant card!

liberal logic 101: when you get your ass handed to you, loudly kick and scream and shout that the other side is 'dumb' or 'ignorant' until everybody stops debating.

thanks for the easy win.




[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 1:05 AM. Reason : ,]

12/20/2011 1:01:02 AM

Ha

you didn't know the difference between tarp and the auto bailouts.

You don't appear to know anything about salary caps.

and you attempted to label me a socialist and a communist (i doubt you know what those words mean either) to, i can only assume, make you feel better about your lack of knowledge on display for everyone here.

don't be such a pack_bryan

12/20/2011 1:03:25 AM

germany is one plane ticket away. let us know your taxes when you get settled!


don't be such communist moron

12/20/2011 1:05:46 AM

Looks like you got me.

Clearly, we'd be WAY better off to mimic the likes of Korea and Mexico.

pack_bryan reasoning is just TOO sound.

12/20/2011 1:09:25 AM

oh no i've got you all heated up because you're again realizing nobody in the real world except for a few very small in the minority agree with your ridiculous ideas.

oh no. now since he has no other country to go to that comes even close to his radical ideas, he might type my name a bunch of times and get angry behind his keyboard.

12/20/2011 1:15:08 AM

heh

if you knew anything about anything, you'd be clamoring to support a more German-like system over here.

I'm sure someone that actually knows things is getting a good laugh at your expense right now.

12/20/2011 1:27:29 AM

Quote :

"you didn't know the difference between tarp and the auto bailouts"

to be fair, the auto bailouts were accomplished using TARP money...

12/20/2011 6:26:08 AM

Quote :

"So if you (or anyone really) were president, you would have let the 100,000 to 500,000 auto workers concentrated largely in 1 geographic area just lose their job?"

LOL, do you really believe this shit?

Do you remember when all the airlines filed for bankruptcy? Yep, they all just shut the doors and sent everyone home. haha. Please just try to use some reason and a little history on how bankruptcies are used on these type of scales.

Just checked, yep, I can still buy a plane ticket.

12/20/2011 10:27:17 AM

moron is delusional. He honestly thinks that a collective society where everybody pretends to work hard and add to the 'common good' will provide 'jobs' and and allow people to freely think and create and thrive equally.

He really thinks paying 80% or more of your paycheck to the public conglomerate of social funds is the hallmark of a 'functional society'

He abhors a society where peoples skills, demands, innovations, and discoveries are the foundation. It's horrible tasting to people like him because he's afraid of failure, and has nothing to contribute to society and therefore feels it is our obligation to provide and innovate for him.

Those social methods are impossible to sustain. Entire continents and nations are pilling up daily as evidence. It's not long before it's entirely rejected as 'post middle aged style' nonsense anyways.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 11:15 AM. Reason : =]

12/20/2011 11:14:32 AM

Quote :

"yes, setting fuel economy standards for 10 years down the road or whatever it was is really affecting the price of fuel today. seriously dude, you sound dumber than hooksaw, or, hell, ME, when you say stupid shit like that."

Are you really that goddamn stupid to pull out one part of post, misrepresent it, and then call ME stupid? Wait, why the hell am I asking this, we already know you are that dumb.

Cash for clunkers was in 2009. Forcing GM/Chrysler to build fuel efficient cars started 3 years ago and is ongoing. Obama pushed the 35mpg standard from 2020 to 2016. A slow economy causes oil prices to go down. What we're seeing today is the price at the pump dropping while oil prices rise. That can be directly attributed to a drop in demand due to government policy pushing for more fuel efficient cars.

12/20/2011 11:28:56 AM

Quote :

" LOL, do you really believe this shit? Do you remember when all the airlines filed for bankruptcy? Yep, they all just shut the doors and sent everyone home. haha. Please just try to use some reason and a little history on how bankruptcies are used on these type of scales. Just checked, yep, I can still buy a plane ticket. "

If you were the president when this was going down, you would have done the same thing. What makes you think you would have been different when Bush, McCain, and Obama all wanted the bailouts?

hindsight is 20/20.

Quote :

"moron is delusional. He honestly thinks that a collective society where everybody pretends to work hard and add to the 'common good' will provide 'jobs' and and allow people to freely think and create and thrive equally. He really thinks paying 80% or more of your paycheck to the public conglomerate of social funds is the hallmark of a 'functional society' He abhors a society where peoples skills, demands, innovations, and discoveries are the foundation. It's horrible tasting to people like him because he's afraid of failure, and has nothing to contribute to society and therefore feels it is our obligation to provide and innovate for him. Those social methods are impossible to sustain. Entire continents and nations are pilling up daily as evidence. It's not long before it's entirely rejected as 'post middle aged style' nonsense anyways. "

lol don't be such a pack_bryan

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ]

12/20/2011 11:29:33 AM

Quote :

"If you were the president when this was going down, you would have done the same thing. What makes you think you would have been different when Bush, McCain, and Obama all wanted the bailouts? hindsight is 20/20."

Bullshit. Bush, McCain, and Obama are either idiots or they're evil. The bailouts were not for "the people", they were for the banks

And fuck your "charity by force" society. If liberals spent half as much time actually assisting the community as they did bitching about how the rich don't pay enough, maybe we'd see some change. You don't want to take responsibility, though. You want a government to take care of it.

12/20/2011 11:48:48 AM

Quote :

"Do you remember when all the airlines filed for bankruptcy?"

If you're talking about after 9/11, basically all the airlines got bailouts/guaranteed loans that year.

12/20/2011 12:05:55 PM

Quote :

"If you were the president when this was going down, you would have done the same thing. What makes you think you would have been different when Bush, McCain, and Obama all wanted the bailouts? "

Doubtful I would have. Bankruptcy was exactly what was needed. No need to risk taxpayer dollars or screw bond holders bc you want to reward your union voters.

You are correct that the same thing would have been done if McCain would have been elected though. One of the reasons so many people hated voting for him.

Ron Paul would have vetod the hell out of this. You could probably agree with that.

^all the airlines but AA got bailouts (15B) after 9/11 and went bankrupt anyway. AA just filed for bankruptcy. And you can still buy a ticket on AA. Notice what the biggest issue is for the airlines and the autos? hmmmm

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/30/us-americanairlines-idUSTRE7AS0T220111130

Look if you want to guarantee that all your employees get 5 million when they retire, fine. It will surely bust your company, but it is your call. My issue is when the govt then uses taxpayer dollars to continue this crap, bc there is so many union votes. That is just wrong.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2011 12:38:10 PM

lol @ the radical liberals in here trying to turn this country into sweden and defend at all costs unions and more bailouts. you will never have your dream in this country. enjoy your plane ride to the middle east, various older style govts in europe or africa where you'll find your 'zen'

12/20/2011 12:53:30 PM

15 TRILLION IN DEBT? SINGLE PAYER WILL SOLVE THAT LOL

12/20/2011 12:56:09 PM

says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "The data suggest that the debate over the payroll tax is helping Obama's efforts to portray himself as the defender of the middle class."

lololol. obama doesn't give 2 shits about the middle class. he's never been a part of it and never will understand it.

12/20/2011 12:58:52 PM

Little Girl Mutilated by Obama's Drone Warfare Comes to U.S. For Surgery

Quote :

"Shakira was one year old when Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Barack Obama ordered the 2009 drone strike in Pakistan's Taliban-infested Swat valley that nearly killed her. With two other burned little girls, she was put in a trash bin to die. A volunteer doctor with House of Charity discovered the three babies and attempted to save them. Two of the little girls died from their injuries, but Shakira, who is now four, lived to be disfigured."

http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/22/little-girl-mutilated-by-obamas-drone-wa#commentcontainer

[Edited on December 22, 2011 at 12:02 PM. Reason : ]

12/22/2011 12:01:52 PM

Quote :

"Are you really that goddamn stupid to pull out one part of post, misrepresent it, and then call ME stupid? "

that was basically the ONLY part of your post. you had 3 things that you referenced: cash for clunkers, MPG, and "forcing the industry to produce more fuel efficient cars." Well, guess what? two of those are the same thing. and two of those things don't even kick the fuck in until 2025. I didn't misrepresent a damned thing. you just spooged all over yourself with stupid.

cash for clunkers may have removed some gas guzzlers, but it didn't replace them with priuses. by and large, people bought a car with maybe a 5MPG difference, which is nice, but not enough to drive demand down so much that it affected prices. seriously, offer some fucking proof for your assertions that a drop in the bucket and standards that aren't even applicable yet are having ANY affect on current gas prices. and how about that awesome GM car that no one wants to buy? yeah, the Volt is really driving down gas prices by sitting on the lot

[Edited on December 22, 2011 at 10:08 PM. Reason : ]

12/22/2011 10:06:32 PM

Obama's signature of NDAA will authorize domestic drone surveillance.

12/22/2011 10:23:16 PM

Quote :

" obama doesn't give 2 shits about the middle class. he's never been a part of it and never will understand it."

haha what?

He's, by far, the closest to a middle class president we've had in several decades.

12/22/2011 10:26:14 PM