Quote :

"Cool your jets, ghost rider. I was referring to the anecdotes of "I was poor and black and I somehow made it.""

Lol sorry man, I misread your name and thought you were destroyer. Give it time, he'll come in and say the exact same thing about every single study I posted and then talk about how he's never seen racism happen once.

edit: Nobody reads post 48


Do you have a black-sounding name? Yes? Then you're 50% less likely to get a resume callback than somebody with the exact same resume but a name like "Lakisha" http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

Additionally, you're 60% less likely to get a callback from a renter to whom you submitted an application http://www.dailyestimate.com/article.asp?id=3708.

AND you're more likely to be pegged ahead of time with low expectations by your schoolteachers link]http://www.nber.org/papers/w11195[/link]

Those are all simply by having a name that's more common in the black community than the white one.

Are you a black with no criminal record? Yes? Then you're less likely to get a job than a white person with criminal record and otherwise equal qualifications. http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf

Are you a black person with a college degree? Yes? Then you're almost twice as likely to be out of work than your white peers with identical degrees http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/01race.html?_r=2

Are you Chinese-American? Yes? Then you're probably receiving up to 60% of the pay of your white coworkers even if you have more education than them http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081112101339.htm

Are you black and have ever been at a traffic stop? Yes? Then you're more likely to have had your person and your vehicle searched by the police http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf

Are you black and have ever sold drugs? Yes? Then you're between 3 and 5x as likely to be arrested for it than a white person selling drugs, despite whites and blacks selling drugs at roughly the same percentage of their respective populations. http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/03/02/decades-disparity

Did you ever misbehave as a black child at school? Yes? Then you're more likely to have been expelled than a white student committing the same offense. http://www.springerlink.com/content/m1u4806148441l8x/

Are you a black person who's ever seen a doctor? Yes? Then there's a good chance you've been hastily prescribed different and often more dangerous procedures than your doctor would prescribe to a white person with the same symptoms. http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/23/doctors.attitude.race.weight/index.html?iref=mpstoryview



Do I need to go on?

For every one of those questions you answered "No" to, your resume or application go to the top of the pile that much quicker, and you were harassed by the police one time less than you would if there were no white privilege occurring in America.


[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 1:20:27 PM

Quote :

" anecdotes of "I was poor and black and I somehow made it.""

lol.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM. Reason : ,]

2/16/2012 1:21:48 PM

Quote :

"Affirmative Action is also discrimination. So, if you are a white male, there's probably an even better chance that you've been subject to blatant job discrimination."

No, there's not and I challenge you to find anything resembling statistical evidence of this. You see, there's this thing out there called "the real world" that we can go to test our intuitions and assumptions.

Quote :

"Then how about you fucking USE IT AND STOP CALLING PEOPLE RACISTS. GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP SLINGING RACE ACCUSATIONS LIKE YOU'RE JESSE MOTHER FUCKING JACKSON. You completely undermine ANYTHING you might have to say when your first response is to call someone racist for not agreeing with you. AND THAT'S WHAT YOUR FUCKING DO. Grow up"

You've demonstrated every single trapping of racism except openly declaring your hatred. You wont convince me, and you'll find there's hundreds of arguments I've gotten into on here where I've accused nobody of racism at all.

2/16/2012 1:24:03 PM

Quote :

"No, there's not and I challenge you to find anything resembling statistical evidence of this."

Oh, so "if there's a white guy and a black guy who are equally qualified, you must give preference to the black guy" isn't discrimination? well color me fucking amazed!

Quote :

"You've demonstrated every single trapping of racism except openly declaring your hatred."

still not seeing any evidence. it, as I said, all amounts to "you disagree with me, therefor you must hate whatever I say you hate".

Quote :

"You wont convince me, and you'll find there's hundreds of arguments I've gotten into on here where I've accused nobody of racism at all."

And I've seen at least three times in the past few days where you have. don't act like you don't call people racist, because you do.

2/16/2012 1:26:18 PM

Quote :

"White children do nothing to deserve the tutors, expensive facilities, and up-to-date textbooks and materials that, statistically speaking, they tend to have greater access to."

Um, their parents do though. And they tend to live in areas where people in that area value those things and thus provide it for their kids. This might shock you but some areas dont value education.

Racisim exists in all cultures hoss. Sadly there will always be a bits of it in any society. What you cant have is state sponsored racism/discrimination imo. Which it sounds like what you are calling for. This only makes race relations worse and moves us futher away from acceptance.

Do we need to post a list of discriminations that go the other way?

Also being in a traffic stop determines success? Seems odd you put it in there. Any ideas why that stat might be elevated?

Also I dont recall ever having to put any of that down on a resume or application. (other than my name)

2/16/2012 1:28:38 PM

plenty of money to buy bootstraps.


[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 1:29:17 PM

^along those lines how about a trivia question. The black/white wealth gap was closing until what program was introduced?

2/16/2012 1:32:15 PM

Quote :

"Also being in a traffic stop determines success? Seems odd you put it in there. Any ideas why that stat might be elevated?"

2 words: racial profiling

2/16/2012 1:32:17 PM

Quote :

"Oh, so "if there's a white guy and a black guy who are equally qualified, you must give preference to the black guy" isn't discrimination? well color me fucking amazed! "

Let me get this straight. I show you a dozen studies, each one indicating blatant and widespread racial discrimination against blacks, even when they have *better* qualifications than white counterparts. You don't give a shit.

Yet, this notion in your mind that blacks, despite making up less than 15% of the population and having nearly double the unemployment rate of whites and are unduly concentrated in urban areas, are somehow depriving a shitload of whites of jobs?

Please, just for laughs, scour heritage.org and creation research institute for some scrap of evidence to suggest the number of whites losing out because of AA even comes close to rivaling the blacks losing out to racial discrimination.

Quote :

"still not seeing any evidence. it, as I said, all amounts to "you disagree with me, therefor you must hate whatever I say you hate"."

Should I name all the programs you oppose whose elimination would disproportionately fuck over minorities?

Or all the programs you do support that would disproportionately disenfranchise minority voters?

Or perhaps all the times you've denied the impact or even very existence of racism today?

Or perhaps all the times (like right now) when you demonstrate a blatant double standard of tolerance for discrimination; raising your first in fury at the mere idea of affirmative action but not acknowledging let alone caring the mountain of evidence showing that blacks suffer discrimination left and right on a daily basis?

Okay, maybe you don't hate blacks, but you clearly don't give a shit about them one bit if doing so means admitting that maybe a few white people have benefited from racism in the US.

Quote :

"And I've seen at least three times in the past few days where you have."

What a coincidence, I've seen at least 3 times in the past few days that racist shitheads on this forum have made it more obvious than usual.

Quote :

" don't act like you don't call people racist, because you do."

I call people racist when they are making it obvious that they are racist.

2/16/2012 1:36:07 PM

Quote :

"Should I name all the programs you oppose whose elimination would disproportionately fuck over minorities?"

Should I, AGAIN, point out that disagreeing with you is NOT THE SAME as being a racist? This is what liberals do: if you disagree with them, they say you're a racist. It's tiring. Find and quote of mine in TSB where I say that I hate black people and want to destroy them. You won't fucking find it.

Quote :

"Let me get this straight. I show you a dozen studies, each one indicating blatant and widespread racial discrimination against blacks, even when they have *better* qualifications than white counterparts. You don't give a shit."

Let me get THIS straight. I was talking about Affirmative Action. You talked about other shit. And somehow that makes anything I was saying about Affirmative Action null and void? What ducking universe are you in where that makes any sense?

Quote :

"Or all the programs you do support that would disproportionately disenfranchise minority voters?"

Again, we disagree, so that makes me a racist. How is that logical. Exactly, IT'S NOT.

Quote :

"Or perhaps all the times you've denied the impact or even very existence of racism today?"

Find where I've done that. You won't.

Quote :

"Or perhaps all the times (like right now) when you demonstrate a blatant double standard of tolerance for discrimination; raising your first in fury at the mere idea of affirmative action but not acknowledging let alone caring the mountain of evidence showing that blacks suffer discrimination left and right on a daily basis? "

So, I can't point out AA without also going out and writing a term paper on common knowledge?

Quote :

"I call people racist when they are making it obvious that they are racist."

No, you call people racist when they dare to disagree with the almighty Str8tFoolish. And that's a fucking fact

2/16/2012 1:42:08 PM

Quote :

"Um, their parents do though. And they tend to live in areas where people in that area value those things and thus provide it for their kids. This might shock you but some areas dont value education."

Everybody wants their children to have a good education, it's not a culture issue, this is more white supremacist propaganda. Regardless of how much they "value" education, the funding to public schools is determined by local property taxes, which is blatantly geared at delivering the best educations to the kids with the richest people. As I pointed out as well, even in schools serving both races, teachers tend to have lower expectations of whites based on name alone, before school even starts and tend to expel black students more often than whites for the exact same offenses.

Quote :

"Racisim exists in all cultures hoss. Sadly there will always be a bits of it in any society. What you cant have is state sponsored racism/discrimination imo. Which it sounds like what you are calling for. This only makes race relations worse and moves us futher away from acceptance."

No, what brings us further away from acceptance is complacence with racism and shitheads like you who try their hardest to pretend it's not a big deal and accuse anyone who brings it up of pulling the race card. People like you who try to sweep it under the rug while it's still occurring are what moves us away from acceptance.

Quote :

"Do we need to post a list of discriminations that go the other way?"

Yes, you do. Typically, people back up their arguments with facts. More important is that you show these discrimination impact a comparable proportion of the white community as the proportion of black community affected by racism, as I have done.

Quote :

"Also being in a traffic stop determines success? Seems odd you put it in there. "

No, but being searched and having drugs found on your person does, since that leads to arrest, trial, and conviction. Now check this study out:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf

Whites are four times as likely than blacks to have drugs found on them when searched, yet blacks are more likely to be searched for drugs than whites. Also more likely to be arrested rather than let go after drugs are found. Also more likely to be taken to trial, more likely to be convicted, and more likely to receive a longer sentence than whites convicted of the same offense.

Quote :

"Any ideas why that stat might be elevated?"

Yeah it's pretty obvious it's racial profiling and a skewed justice system rampant with racism, with cops, juries, and judges probably also sharing the blame.

Quote :

"Also I dont recall ever having to put any of that down on a resume or application. (other than my name)"

You've never had an employer do a background check? Actually, as a pointed out, even with a criminal record you're more likely to get a job than a black person with equal qualifications but no convictions.

Even if you are sent to jail, it's likely to be for less time than a black person would for the same offense. As if that weren't enough, this all folds back on the kids. It's pretty hard to raise your kid when you're stuck in jail, especially when you might be a free man if you had been white when that cop made the decision to search you.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 1:43:37 PM

fun fact: crack-cocaine gets you a harsher sentence than powder cocaine.

2/16/2012 1:49:38 PM

Quote :

"Yes, you do. Typically, people back up their arguments with facts."

except for you when you just label someone a racist and act like that means anything

2/16/2012 1:50:59 PM

Quote :

""if there's a white guy and a black guy who are equally qualified, you must give preference to the black guy" "

Not only that, you may have to take the LESS qualified person simply because of race. That is simply wrong.

Foolish, it is foolish to think you will ever be able to eliminate racism in society. But you certainly can eliminate state sponsored racism. Instead you seem to want to promote MORE of it which this worsens race relations. If you beat me out for a job or position at college, etc bc you are more qualified that is easily accepted. If I am more qualified and the company or school is forced to take you simply because of skin color that pisses people off. The whole idea of judge a person by their character not their skin color is totally out the window. Now not all businesses will do that and they will eventually suffer or adapt, but you should NEVER have the govt forcing this on the population. imo

Quote :

"fun fact: crack-cocaine gets you a harsher sentence than powder cocaine. "

I agree. Total BS. And goes back to my state sponsored discrimination point.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 1:51:26 PM

Quote :

"Find and quote of mine in TSB where I say that I hate black people and want to destroy them. You won't fucking find it. "

Aaand this is what modern racists do. They blabber on about blacks being in cultures of poverty, gangsta culture, not valuing education, not trying hard enough, being dependent on the government, having an 'entitlement mentality', pulling the race card for everything. But they don't say "FUCK NIGGERS HANG EM ALL" therefore they're not racist. It's so transparent I sometimes wonder if they actually, truly believe it.

Quote :

"Let me get THIS straight. I was talking about Affirmative Action. You talked about other shit. And somehow that makes anything I was saying about Affirmative Action null and void? What ducking universe are you in where that makes any sense?"

Here's a great example. I post mountains of evidence pointing to

Quote :

"Find where I've done that. You won't."

Quote :

"Again, we disagree, so that makes me a racist. How is that logical. Exactly, IT'S NOT."

As I pointed out, all of your positions conveniently line up against blacks and for whites. It's as illogical for me to assume there's an underlying animosity as it is illogical to say that what looks like a duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck, moves like a duck, flies like a duck...is probably a duck.

Quote :

" So, I can't point out AA without also going out and writing a term paper on common knowledge? "

Nope, but you can at least cite a single paper trying to back up your claims before you refer to my well documented claims as "some other shit".

Quote :

" No, you call people racist when they dare to disagree with the almighty Str8tFoolish. And that's a fucking fact"

Nope, as I pointed out I've had hundreds of arguments on here where I accuse nobody as such, and all of my accusations against you and destroyer fall in line with "Looks like a duck, smells like a duck...".

I think you're just super fucking butthurt that you're #2 to TULIPlover in the race to see who can make it more obvious he's racist.

2/16/2012 1:51:47 PM

Quote :

" except for you when you just label someone a racist and act like that means anything"

Eat shit, I've posted more factual information on this page alone than you've posted in your entire life. When I ask you to post a single bit of evidence to back up your intuitions you cry "Buh buh ur askin me to write a whole term paper ." So please go back to pounding the square peg into the circular hole you dumb child.

2/16/2012 1:53:33 PM

Quote :

"Aaand this is what modern racists do. They blabber on about blacks being in cultures of poverty, gangsta culture, not valuing education, not trying hard enough, being dependent on the government, having an 'entitlement mentality', pulling the race card for everything. But they don't say "FUCK NIGGERS HANG EM ALL" therefore they're not racist. It's so transparent I sometimes wonder if they actually, truly believe it."

So, again, if I dare disagree with you, then I'm a racist. got it.

Quote :

"As I pointed out, all of your positions conveniently line up against blacks and for whites. It's as illogical for me to assume there's an underlying animosity as it is illogical to say that what looks like a duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck, moves like a duck, flies like a duck...is probably a duck."

So, what you are saying is that YOU are ASSUMING I am a racist, without any actual direct link to it. And guess what it boils down to? That I disagree with you. You can't possibly fathom any other rationale that might lead to our disagreements. So, you do what liberals do: you demonize you opponent and call them a racist.

Quote :

"Nope, but you can at least cite a single paper trying to back up your claims before you refer to my well documented claims as "some other shit"."

I don't need to cite a god damn paper. I'm citing the mother fucking law that says "give preference to minorities." IT'S IN THE GOD DAMNED LAW!!!!!! How many papers do I need to cite to say what a law fucking says? Do I need fifteen hundred papers to say that Obamacare has a fucking insurance mandate in it?

Quote :

"Nope, as I pointed out I've had hundreds of arguments on here where I accuse nobody as such, and all of my accusations against you and destroyer fall in line with "Looks like a duck, smells like a duck...". "

So, AGAIN, we disagree with you, you can't actually defeat our arguments, so we must be racists.

Quote :

"Eat shit"

oh, man, more ad hominem.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 1:56:01 PM

you may not be explicitly racist, but you very clearly are sympathetic to a system and culture that disproportionately harms minorities and benefits whites, and you seem to do it in the face of evidence of institutional forms of overt racism.

so, no, you're not racist. just defiantly ignorant.

2/16/2012 2:00:19 PM

Quote :

"Foolish, it is foolish to think you will ever be able to eliminate racism in society. But you certainly can eliminate state sponsored racism. Instead you seem to want to promote MORE of it which this worsens race relations. If you beat me out for a job or position at college, etc bc you are more qualified that is easily accepted. If I am more qualified and the company or school is forced to take you simply because of skin color that pisses people off."

AA is not racism. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to others and should be treated preferentially. Racism in a society leads to disparities between racial groups. AA is counterweight, it's point is to reduce or eliminate those disparities. It acts against racial superiority and for equality. This should be obvious since [i]AA wouldn't be necessary and wouldn't exist without a pre-existing racist society marked by disparity and widespread discrimination.[/b]

Just like white supremacist groups with whites-only scholarships are trying to widen the gap, whereas the NAACP was trying to close it. IF there weren't real, widespread racial disparities, the NAACP would be equally despicable.

You're like a guy who just got stabbed who tells the doctor in the emergency room, "What do you mean you're using a scalpel? You're just as bad as the guy who lodged this knife in me!"

Quote :

"If I am more qualified and the company or school is forced to take you simply because of skin color that pisses people off. "

Racist employers widen the racial gaps and disparities. AA closes them. If a stupid bigoted shit like you think that's a bad thing, then I couldn't care less if your baby butt is chapped about your privilege being mitigated in one or two out of the dozens of situations it would otherwise benefit you.

Quote :

" The whole idea of judge a person by their character not their skin color is totally out the window. Now not all businesses will do that and they will eventually suffer or adapt, but you should NEVER have the govt forcing this on the population. imo"

Black people suffer widespread racism-> Tough shit, here's hoping that changes

White people have their privilege occasionally limited-> A GRAVE INJUSTICE THIS CANNOT STAND


[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 2:00:54 PM

Quote :

" I don't need to cite a god damn paper. I'm citing the mother fucking law that says "give preference to minorities." IT'S IN THE GOD DAMNED LAW!!!!!! How many papers do I need to cite to say what a law fucking says? Do I need fifteen hundred papers to say that Obamacare has a fucking insurance mandate in it? "

You weren't citing the law. You were claiming that AA displaces more whites than racism displaces blacks. Now fucking prove it and quit blabbering like a baby that I'm accurately describing you as a racist (or at worst, someone who is more than happy to sit at the top of a racist society).

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 2:02:10 PM

Quote :

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy.[2][3][4"

Calling someone a shit head or telling them to eat shit independent of their stupid arguments is not in fact an ad hominem.

Just because a spade makes terrible arguments doesn't mean calling it a spade is an ad hominem.

2/16/2012 2:06:47 PM

Thank you. If I said "aaronburro is making this argument, thus it is wrong." that would be an ad hominem. All I'm saying is "You are a shithead. Now here is why your particular arguments are in this case wrong."

2/16/2012 2:10:12 PM

lol

2/16/2012 2:11:32 PM

he does seem to care more about unborn babies than he does already-born minorities. that's fascinating.

2/16/2012 2:19:28 PM

Quote :

"AA is not racism."

Definition of Racism: the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination.

AA is certainly discrimination. Your reason for using discrimination doesnt eliminate that fact.

Quote :

"Black people suffer widespread racism-> Tough shit, here's hoping that changes White people have their privilege occasionally limited-> A GRAVE INJUSTICE THIS CANNOT STAND "

Are you this fucking dense. I havent come close to saying anything remotely close to that. THere will always be differences in cultures and society. What I am saying for the fourth fucking time is that STATE mandated discrimination is wrong and makes things worse.

If you hate white people passing a law and forcing you to hire one wont help matters. If you refuse to hire quality people simply because you hate their race, that is your right, and your business will suffer from your bad decisions.

There is no utopia where everyone agrees to everything and has equal RESULTS. But what you can legislate is that EVERYONE, regardless of their skin color, sex, etc, has equal rights under law and should be treated equally under the law. When you get away from that you create greater long term problems.

2/16/2012 2:20:35 PM

Except Affirmative Action wasn't created on the basis that "inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination". It was created to offset the actual discrimination that was and continues to happen.

Quote :

"and your business will suffer from your bad decisions."

Questionable assertion. If that were the case, you'd think racism wouldn't really be a problem in the first place.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 2:23:10 PM

TSB rehashing the affirmative action debate for the umpteenth time. So far we've come.

Let's just cut through the bullshit, here. Institutional racism exists. There's no doubt about it. Arguably, the most racist institution is the war on drugs, which most of you support in some way. If you don't directly support it, you fail to support (or in some cases, actively spread misinformation about) the candidates that actually would change this policy.

Aside from the ending the war on drugs, what should be done? What does affirmative action entail? How do you "deal" with institutional racism?

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 2:29:34 PM

Quote :

"If you don't directly support it, you fail to support the candidates that actually would change this policy."

I was with you until you got here. I don't think that anyone supports every single policy that the candidate that they endorse supports. There are plenty of people that vote for Obama but are against drug prohibition. You're not going to guilt them into switching to Ron Paul with this rhetoric.

2/16/2012 2:36:25 PM

So instead of supporting Ron Paul who has a few bad policies, most of which will never fucking change (abortion), you support the guy that has continued virtually all of the bad policies.

If you believe the war on drugs is wrong, you should not be supporting Obama at all. In any case, this is a shameless plug for Ron Paul, the only candidate that would actually improve race relations. The last line of my previous post is what I really want to see a response to.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 2:39 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 2:38:35 PM

I'm not supporting Obama. I'm supporting "not-romney and not-santorum".

2/16/2012 2:39:46 PM

This discussion reminds me of the study MIT did with the American Disablities Act. While not forcing people to hire people with disablities they basically made them a protected class. The study showed that after this well intentioned bill passed with broad support that employment of those with disablities, men and female, went down and became stagnant over time.

Sadly before this passed employment was on the rise as we moved to more office work than physical labor. A good example of a well intentioned program with serious unintended consequences.

Quote :

"Except Affirmative Action wasn't created on the basis that "inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination". "

I can see why you say that. But how do you justify that you need to make a score of X to be accepted to this school. However, if you belong to whatever group, you need X-y to be accepted.

Freakonomics did piece on that names and success of people. And there is a correlation between how "unique" your name is and how successful people tend to be. However, they mostly attribute that link to genetics and parents with lower education tend to mispell and have more unique names.

There have been many studies (in other parts of the world too) that suggest the name of your baby has an effect on their outcome in society.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 3:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 3:00:36 PM

Obama's war on pot

Quote :

"Back when he was running for president in 2008, Barack Obama insisted that medical marijuana was an issue best left to state and local governments. "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue," he vowed, promising an end to the Bush administration's high-profile raids on providers of medical pot, which is legal in 16 states and the District of Columbia. But over the past year, the Obama administration has quietly unleashed a multi­agency crackdown on medical cannabis that goes far beyond anything undertaken by George W. Bush. The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana. With more than 100 raids on pot dispensaries during his first three years, Obama is now on pace to exceed Bush's record for medical-marijuana busts. "There's no question that Obama's the worst president on medical marijuana," says Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project. "He's gone from first to worst.""

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216#ixzz1mZvfzK7V

2/16/2012 3:25:39 PM

Str8Foolish more like Str8Racist

am i rite? can i get an amen?

2/16/2012 3:46:31 PM

thats not very creative

2/16/2012 4:00:39 PM

^^^As someone who both smoked and even grew pot for ~2 years, I have to say that Obama's reversal on the issue is disappointing. I mean, to be clear, I agree with the general idea that pot is not a benign drug. Yeah, it's not physically addictive and it was relatively easy to quit doing it, but as someone who smoked literally every day for a while, I know it can have a negative effect on your life. It won't kill you, but it can make you extremely lazy and generally satisfied with a "do nothing" lifestyle. Since quitting, I've advanced both my professional career and personal relationships much more rapidly then I ever cared to do when I was smoking daily. Physically, my cardiovascular health is much improved as well. While I recognize that some individuals use it regularly and maintain a "normal" life, personal experiences (myself and others I know) have convinced me that is an exception.

With that said, I do recognize it's medicinal value, and it should be decriminalized and regulated like any other drug. Dispensaries which follow state laws and only distribute to legitimate patients should be allowed to do business without federal harassment. I don't think it should be available without prescription, nor become as easily available as alcohol or cigarettes. While yes, in some ways, both of those are worse for you than marijuana, that doesn't mean we should just let another socially and physically destructive habit become accepted by our society, especially now that cigarette usage is at an all time low. That's my 2 cents on the issue.

2/16/2012 4:12:58 PM

^damn. so the liberal plot to make society a 'do nothing' society and give more reason to start entitlement programs has been botched


btw. great story.

2/16/2012 4:17:54 PM

Quote :

"you may not be explicitly racist, but you very clearly are sympathetic to a system and culture that disproportionately harms minorities and benefits whites"

also, not true. you have, again, pigeonholed for what I argue into a convenient container so you can call it dirty names.

Quote :

"AA is not racism. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to others and should be treated preferentially."

And AA says that whites should be treated less preferentially than non-whites. WHAT THE FUCK WOULD YOU CALL THAT?

Quote :

"AA is counterweight, it's point is to reduce or eliminate those disparities."

Adding water on the other side of a ship with a hole in it just sinks the whole god damned ship faster. The solution to discrimination is NOT more discrimination.

Quote :

"Just like white supremacist groups with whites-only scholarships are trying to widen the gap, whereas the NAACP was trying to close it."

OK, whites-only scholarships are bad. what about blacks-only? why is discrimination ok if it's against whites? is discrimination bad, or is it not?

Quote :

"If a stupid bigoted shit like you think that's a bad thing"

oh look, race-card again. way to go!

Quote :

"Black people suffer widespread racism-> Tough shit, here's hoping that changes White people have their privilege occasionally limited-> A GRAVE INJUSTICE THIS CANNOT STAND"

How about: WE DON'T TOLERATE DISCRIMINATION AT ALL. How the fuck is that a bad idea?

Quote :

"You were claiming that AA displaces more whites than racism displaces blacks. "

false. AA, itself is discrimination. Just because it doesn't win, doesn't change the fact that it is discriminatory. It is designed to be so!

Quote :

"Calling someone a shit head or telling them to eat shit independent of their stupid arguments is not in fact an ad hominem. Just because a spade makes terrible arguments doesn't mean calling it a spade is an ad hominem."

No, but calling someone a racist most certainly IS ad hominem. or would you care to explain how saying someone is something that is not to be liked is not an insult?

2/16/2012 5:43:07 PM

do you even acknowledge the disparity between whites and minorities? let's start there. do you recognize the gaps that are present?


a simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.


[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 6:13 PM. Reason : ]

2/16/2012 6:12:15 PM

Yes, but it was the government that created these gaps, not society.

Is what he'll say.

2/16/2012 7:32:53 PM

Quote :

"false. AA, itself is discrimination. Just because it doesn't win, doesn't change the fact that it is discriminatory. It is designed to be so!"

AA in a purely theoretical sense is discrimination.

AA in the context of the real world, where white privilege is rampant is not.

This is not difficult, though seeing the white privilege when you are white yourself can be.

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 8:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/16/2012 8:05:50 PM

Quote :

"AA in the context of the real world, where white privilege is rampant is not."

bullshit. Discrimination is discrimination. There is no other way to put it. Again, you can right a listing ship by flooding the other side of the boat, but you'll also just make the boat sink faster that way. Either discrimination is wrong, or it's not. What is YOUR stance on that?


I've VERY much seen anti-white discrimination. The bullshit about giving preference to "minority-owned businesses" is very much discrimination, and it happens every fucking day. I've seen businesses that refuse to hire whites and males rake in government contracts because of that. Tell me how in the fuck that even comes close to being "fair" or acceptable. Tell me, if we are supposed to have "equal protection under the law," why that business can refuse to hire whites and be OK, but if it refuses to hire blacks, it gets in a world of hurt. Tell me where in the flying fuck the "equal protection under the law" is. You can't, because it's not fucking there

2/16/2012 9:08:28 PM

can we just fucking move on?

my ancestors had it far worse than blacks ever did and i dont get shit-

translation, who cares? now lets get some meat and potatoes! let this thread simmer and discuss the following quote in the republican candidates thread!

Quote :

""There is income inequality in America. There always has been and hopefully, and I do say that, there always will be," said the former Pennsylvania Senator. "Why? Because people rise to different levels of success based on what they contribute to society and to the marketplace and that's as it should be." Santorum explained himself this way, "We shouldn't have a society that has a President who envies or creates class warfare or envy between one group of people and another," said Santorum. "We should celebrate like we do in the small towns all across American _ as you do here in Detroit. You celebrate success. You build statues and monuments. Buildings, you name after them. Why? Because in their greatness and innovation, yes, they created wealth, but they created wealth for everybody else. And that's a good thing, not something to be condemned in America.""

[Edited on February 16, 2012 at 9:14 PM. Reason : -]

2/16/2012 9:14:11 PM

This isn't about ancestors. It's about treatment today.

Quote :

"Discrimination is discrimination"

It sure is convenient when everything is black and white, isn't it? Deny the facts all you want, even with AA the scales are tipped heavily in white peoples' favor.

Go ahead and tout your pie-in-the-sky "we should combat all discrimination" malarky. Somehow I think aaronburro waxing poetically on a message board will have absolutely no impact on the minorities getting fucked over at this moment.

2/16/2012 11:31:48 PM

Quote :

"bullshit. Discrimination is discrimination. There is no other way to put it. Again, you can right a listing ship by flooding the other side of the boat, but you'll also just make the boat sink faster that way. Either discrimination is wrong, or it's not. What is YOUR stance on that?"

It depends how it's implemented actually.

It can be discrimination if done incorrectly, but the laws and guidelines are written to try and prevent this.

2/16/2012 11:37:12 PM

Quote :

"AA in a purely theoretical sense is discrimination. AA in the context of the real world, where white privilege is rampant is not. This is not difficult, though seeing the white privilege when you are white yourself can be."

There are dirt poor white people. There are very wealthy black people. There are people of mixed race. There are black people raised by white people. There are white people raised by black people.

How do you propose that we fairly determine which skin tone gets a "leg up" and which doesn't?

2/17/2012 12:16:49 AM

Decreasing the gaps indicated by the charts on this page would be a solid start. I think we'll get there over time.

Once again, the plural of anecdote is not evidence. I'm sure there are plenty of interesting outlier cases.

2/17/2012 12:29:16 AM

Quote :

"Decreasing the gaps indicated by the charts on this page would be a solid start. I think we'll get there over time."

That is an end. It is not a means. Tell me how you want to decrease those gaps.

2/17/2012 12:41:34 AM

Wait for old racists to die? Beats the shit out of me.

I'll teach my kids the best I can and try to raise consciousnesses to the issue as much as we can. Just about as much we can do about religion.

2/17/2012 12:46:53 AM

Quote :

"It sure is convenient when everything is black and white, isn't it? Deny the facts all you want, even with AA the scales are tipped heavily in white peoples' favor."

Is discrimination bad, or is it not? answer the fucking question.

Quote :

"It can be discrimination if done incorrectly, but the laws and guidelines are written to try and prevent this."

right. like the ones the prevent a person from hiring nothing but black women and then getting a shit ton of gov't contracts because of it.

2/17/2012 12:50:07 AM

Quote :

"Is discrimination bad, or is it not? answer the fucking question."

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. OMG, nuance.

2/17/2012 12:51:00 AM