well put by Gerson....sounds a lot like what I have been posting.

8/14/2010 6:31:06 PM

8/14/2010 6:52:29 PM

^^ i didn't perceive your position and his to be the same, but i'll take your word for it...

8/15/2010 12:24:24 AM

Quote :

"Freedom of Religion applies to everyone. Even if you dont like their religion. Its what this country was founded on. They should be able to build wherever they want, however they should be prepared to accept whatever consequences and negativity that comes from the surrounding community for being douches and not understanding that their building of said mosque is going to be viewed as at least mildly inappropriate."

8/15/2010 12:55:37 AM

11 pages?!?
Really, you guys?

What is the fucking problem?

How the fuck can anybody be opposed to this mosque if they aren't an anti-Muslim bigot?


Should we not build any Christian churches two blocks from Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta?
I mean, to do that would send the message that Christian terrorists win, right?

8/15/2010 12:05:08 PM

LOL here is one of the comments on the foxnews.com article about Obama's comments on the mosque:

Quote :

"One must consider the possibility that the "birthers" are correct, and if so, a kenyan born moslem has perpetrated upon the American public the greatest fraud or hoax in the history of the United States. And for those (especially libs) that whine and cry about "freedom" of religion, it is quite apparent they have never set foot in an islamic controlled region, area or country.and have made note of the fact that the only "freedom" is islamic belief, as any and all other faiths are either killed or subjugated..The philosophy of the islamic "religion" is world domination, not only at the point of a sword, but also utilizing any technique possible, including, but not limited to, deception and murder..For those that doubt such philosophy feel free to read the reference and instruction manual known as the "koran"."

What a bunch of delusional psychopaths

8/15/2010 12:21:54 PM

Thanks to Fox News lending credibility to the cause, 30% of people think OBama was born in Kenya.

8/15/2010 12:25:32 PM

what makes me defend the mosque is the fact that I am Catholic and I know that Catholics have been marginalized in the US and the UK in the past. Of course Catholics have also perpetrated their own religious persecution in the past which I won't defend.

I give props to Obama (whom I didn't vote for) on this one. History will be on his side.

8/15/2010 1:12:12 PM

They shouldn't build Catholic churches next to daycares or elementary schools.

8/15/2010 2:33:07 PM

Refusal to condemn Hamas coupled with a refusal to acknowledge that they are a terrorist organization.

Sounds radical to me... But I guess this passes for moderate these days? Sounds like a pretty fucking sad commentary on Islam.

8/15/2010 10:34:00 PM

It is. And that we might consider not allowing U.S. citizens to build a religious establishment would be a sad commentary on us.

8/16/2010 10:34:57 AM

FOX News no good for some of you? How about CNN?

Overwhelming majority oppose mosque near Ground Zero
August 11, 2010

Quote :

"(CNN) - A proposed mosque to be built two blocks from the World Trade Center has little support nationwide, a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll suggests. According to the new survey out Wednesday, nearly 70 percent of all Americans oppose the controversial plan to build the mosque just blocks away from the solemn site in lower Manhattan while just 29 percent favor the construction."

Quote :

"Broken down by party affiliation, 54 percent of Democrats oppose the plans while 82 percent of Republicans disapprove. Meanwhile, 70 percent of independents said they are against the proposal. The poll also showed opposition did not vary widely by age."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/11/overwhelming-majority-oppose-mosque-near-ground-zero/

Having the right to build it does not mean that it's right to build.

8/16/2010 10:40:17 AM

Quote :

"And that we might consider not allowing U.S. citizens to build a religious establishment would be a sad commentary on us."

Who in this thread is advocating that this mosque not be allowed to be built?

Who is even considering it?

8/16/2010 11:20:46 AM

Just out of curiosity... what would be an appropriate radius to build with regards to Ground Zero? What's the magic distance that makes it "ok" again?

8/16/2010 11:33:38 AM

6450.775 miles.

8/16/2010 11:36:28 AM

^^ I can't speak for others, but I'd say no closer than any existing mosque. And if one isn't close, I'd say a mile or so probably would satisfy most everyone right now.

But let's not forget that a piece of wreckage from the plane crashed through the roof of the building at issue. This is no small thing.

And does it matter to those "bridge builders" that a majority of Americans and a majority of New Yorkers don't want the mosque to be built? Where's the "tolerance" for the concerns of these Americans?

8/16/2010 11:43:46 AM

Quote :

"Just out of curiosity... what would be an appropriate radius to build with regards to Ground Zero? What's the magic distance that makes it "ok" again?"

you make a good point.

however, I think that distance is only a small part of the equation...proper disclosure of funding and less support of Hamas would certainly shrink the radius as well as the veal and vigor of the opposition.

8/16/2010 11:45:58 AM

^I agree.

The building it is going in was damaged on 9/11. You can talk about distance or whatever, but its close enough to be damaged, then its close.

8/16/2010 11:49:52 AM

Quote :

"I can't speak for others, but I'd say no closer than any existing mosque. And if one isn't close, I'd say a mile or so probably would satisfy most everyone right now."

Well the closest existing mosque (Masjid Manhattan) is less than .3 miles away (3 blocks) and predates the 9/11 attacks. So according to your own logic, you have no problems with building this new mosque at an old Burlington Coat Factory as long as its one more block away.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:13 PM. Reason : V i agree with that guy]

8/16/2010 12:10:10 PM

Just FYI, there's already a mosque within four blocks of Ground Zero that predates the attack.

Frankly, if this was the America of 2 or 3 generations ago we would have already rebuilt the WTC (like, within a year of 9/11), properly paid homage to those who died that day with a monument at the site, and moved on. It's a bit distressing that now our response is to let the site sit unused, no proper monument, and rather than move on with what America is about we instead try to figure out new and exciting ways to infringe on the civil liberties of our citizens through things like the PATRIOT act (what a shitty name) and equivocate over how close is too close for a mosque to be built before it offends the gentle sensibilities of New Yorkers.

I heard Newt Gingrich give a very good speech about this issue a few weeks ago... love him or hate him, Newt has his head on straight and if nothing else is consistent in his viewpoints. Granted, I don't agree completely with his assessment of the situation, but at least he doesn't mess about.

8/16/2010 12:11:30 PM

newt is a mouth breathing ass-tard

8/16/2010 12:13:16 PM

Meh... he's one of the few Republicans I actually respect. He's also a hell of a good historian.

8/16/2010 12:13:55 PM

he also has a terrible track record of just making stuff up though

8/16/2010 12:15:17 PM

^^^^ Um. . .from what I gather, Newt doesn't want the mosque built. He does, of course, assert that those involved have the right to build it, just as much of the country has.

Newt is right where most of New York and the country are. Folks just don't want it--justifications and rationalizations notwithstanding.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:17 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2010 12:17:11 PM

Republicans pledge to make Ground Zero mosque an election issue

Quote :

"Republicans are chomping at the bit over the controversial proposal to build a mosque a few blocks from the site of the 9/11 attacks, especially now that Barack Obama has indicated his support for the community center’s construction. Senator John Cornyn, chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, says the president’s remarks defending the religious freedom of Muslims at a White House dinner on Friday show that he is “disconnected from the mainstream of America.” Meantime, Republican Senator David Vitter of Louisiana has come out claiming Obama is “thumbing his nose at the American people.” Representatives of their party are now promising to make the mosque an issue during the upcoming mid-term elections, with experts saying every democratic candidate is now going to have to answer for Obama’s remarks."

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/08/16/republicans-pledge-to-make-ground-zero-mosque-an-election-issue/

8/16/2010 12:20:14 PM

^^Yup, pretty much. If they choose not to bow to public pressure then so be it, however we shouldn't go subverting the constitution just because the public is uncomfortable with the idea of a mosque near the site of the worst terrorist attack on US soil. One of the very reasons we have the protections built into our constitution that we have, and one of the reasons that we are NOT a democracy is to protect us from the tyranny of the masses.

It's really not much different than people who scream for a flag burning amendment with no sense of the inherent irony in that, or people who want to ban neo-nazi rallies, or favor "free speech zones" near political conventions, and the list goes on.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:22 PM. Reason : asdfs]

8/16/2010 12:21:35 PM

^ Completely disagree. I don't see how it's "subverting the constitution" to say to those involved, "You have every right to build this mosque here or elsewhere. But please don't. Please don't."

8/16/2010 12:31:12 PM

Ronald Reagan told us that America was supposed to be this shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere. What the fuck has happened to this country? I guess the WTC attack really made us all forget what America is supposed to be about. The terrorists have won.

8/16/2010 12:33:55 PM

Quote :

"^ Completely disagree. I don't see how it's 'subverting the constitution' to say to those involved, 'You have every right to build this mosque here or elsewhere. But please don't. Please don't.'"

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:35 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2010 12:34:42 PM

Perhaps "subverting the constitution" is a strong term, it's more my issue with people whose immediate reaction to disliking something or disagreeing with a group is to make it illegal. The people who want to somehow twist old ones or create new laws to stop this building being built really bug the shit out of me. Ultimately though, by seeking a legal stop to this construction you are attempting to subvert the constitution and the spirit behind the free exercise of religion portion of the first amendment.

8/16/2010 12:36:20 PM

i'm curious if hooksaw can admit that some people just don't want a mosque anywhere, it has nothing to do with "not here"

8/16/2010 12:38:17 PM

^^ How exactly does this Imam "support" Hamas? Because he declined to start labeling this organization or that organization "terrorist"? He said he'd leave it up to the politicians to decide that. Sounds fair to me.

8/16/2010 12:38:25 PM

Well, no one in this thread at least is arguing for a legal stop to anything. I think this has been said like 8 bajillion times.

My number above was one half the circumference of the Earth, btw.

8/16/2010 12:39:40 PM

Of course a lot of people don't. Frankly I'll be surprised if virtually every new mosque that's constructed in New York city doesn't face some asinine form of protest or opposition.

8/16/2010 12:40:57 PM

^^^^ I wonder if you'll admit that you're just a troll who does nothing more than try to figure out old and uninteresting ways to derail threads?

Nothing new about mosques in New York - CNN
August 5, 2010

Quote :

"Mosques have been part of New York's rich architectural and religious mix for over a century, and today hundreds of thousands of Muslims, many whose New York roots go back generations -- attend the city's more than 100 mosques in the five boroughs."

http://tinyurl.com/2bg3jfo

Please just stop posting.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ^ Um. . .actually, not really. ]

8/16/2010 12:46:49 PM

haha that doesn't answer my question at all

8/16/2010 12:48:47 PM

There's a mosque 4 blocks from Ground Zero as it is.

Pretty sad a bunch of Americans are throwing away their supposed values left and right

8/16/2010 12:49:17 PM

^^^ So what's the problem with one more? That it's two blocks away instead of three?

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2010 12:49:36 PM

Quote :

"Frankly, if this was the America of 2 or 3 generations ago we would have already rebuilt the WTC (like, within a year of 9/11), properly paid homage to those who died that day with a monument at the site, and moved on. It's a bit distressing that now our response is to let the site sit unused, no proper monument, and rather than move on with what America is about we instead try to figure out new and exciting ways to infringe on the civil liberties of our citizens through things like the PATRIOT act (what a shitty name) and equivocate over how close is too close for a mosque to be built before it offends the gentle sensibilities of New Yorkers."

This. A thousand times this.

8/16/2010 12:51:45 PM

^^^^ Well, if there are over 100 mosques, then "don't want a mosque anywhere" is obviously not the problem. Please stop being purposely obtuse.

Better yet, please just stop posting.

^^ Location.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2010 12:51:49 PM

Quote :

"Well, no one in this thread at least is arguing for a legal stop to anything. I think this has been said like 8 bajillion times. My number above was one half the circumference of the Earth, btw. "

Hey, that's great. However, plenty of people are arguing for a legal stop to it, including plenty of actual politicians in Washington and in NYC, as well as plenty of citizens. Let's put that issue to bed now, there ARE people, lots of them in fact, who would like to leverage the power of government to prevent this building from being built.

8/16/2010 12:53:20 PM

^ Please provide a list of names.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason : Of politicians, that is, who have called for some "power of government" intervention.]

8/16/2010 12:54:38 PM

Quote :

"Frankly, if this was the America of 2 or 3 generations ago we would have already rebuilt the WTC (like, within a year of 9/11), properly paid homage to those who died that day with a monument at the site, and moved on. It's a bit distressing that now our response is to let the site sit unused, no proper monument, and rather than move on with what America is about we instead try to figure out new and exciting ways to infringe on the civil liberties of our citizens through things like the PATRIOT act (what a shitty name) and equivocate over how close is too close for a mosque to be built before it offends the gentle sensibilities of New Yorkers."

"2 or 3 generations ago" we put people in internment camps after being attacked. i'm not a fan of how things happened now but lets not sensationalize the past.

8/16/2010 12:54:54 PM

Quote :

"Location."

So if they built it on Warren St instead of Park St, no problem right?

8/16/2010 12:56:23 PM

^^Correct, and that was one of the worst moments in US history, however we also rebuilt both Germany and Japan post WWII despite the fact that we had been in a long and incredibly bloody war with them and did a lot of other amazing shit both during and immediately post war.

[Edited on August 16, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason : asdfsd]

8/16/2010 12:56:30 PM

So the plan is to harass and protest the mosque builders until they decide they don't want to build there anymore?



no wonder the media is latching on to this and pumping it full of hot air, its gonna make for some great news segments. A montage of angry protestors with signs, a muslim worshiper that is too scared to go to his/her local mosque, and probably trot some 9/11 survivors out for good measure.

8/16/2010 12:56:51 PM

Quote :

"This. A thousand times this."

Inter-ideology high-fives and beers are due, sir.

8/16/2010 12:57:00 PM

8/16/2010 12:59:26 PM

Quote :

"however we also rebuilt both Germany and Japan post WWII despite the fact that we had been in a long and incredibly bloody war with them and did a lot of other amazing shit both during and immediately post war."

ah so we just need to do more "amazing shit" to detract from the patriot act so our grand-kids can high five about how awesome our generation was.

look, i'm no fan of the patriot act but pretending like things were so much better 60 years ago is ridiculous.

8/16/2010 1:00:14 PM

I think my sensibilities start getting offended in the area between Barclay St. down to the American Stock Exchange. My "radius of outrage", if you will.

8/16/2010 1:04:14 PM