Help. Everytime I try to get back into weightlifting I get extreme pain on the inside of my elbows where my upper and lower ARM connect.

I've tried googling and it suggests tendinitis. Anyone else had this feeling? It's definitely not DOMS, way more painful and lasts several days and keeps getting worse.

Is it my form causing this or what?

10/13/2011 3:27:11 PM

Could be some shoulder/thoracic mobility issues, or you are just simply doing too much. Tendons and ligaments adapt slower than muscles.

10/13/2011 3:48:15 PM

Hmm. I've been going to failure on most lifts so perhaps that is it. Maybe ill try scaling back for a few weeks to get into it.

On another note anyone tried Escalation Density Training?

Sounds kinda brutal cardio wise. Not convinced it would work that great for hard gainers like me though. I used to be one of those guys who would do ~40 sets in one workout. I got great conditioning but not the strength or size I should have gotten....

10/13/2011 3:54:12 PM

Going to failure is most likely your issue.

I wouldn't do EDT unless you are a body builder with 3-5years of experience under your belt or on AAS.

10/13/2011 4:01:29 PM

Most epic benchpress ever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDBP_xdzyxI&feature=colike

10/15/2011 10:26:33 AM

Oh yea? Well, this is the most epic squat ever:
http://youtu.be/AWY5LIWSqd4

10/15/2011 10:41:34 AM

i think i was actually impressed by that old man, that is some endurance despite the form

my lols of the week - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGHd1IT73w

talked to a PT about my nerve damage issues, basically told me never to do any spine compressing moves anymore, ever, ever stick with dbs for lunges and do more pilates type workouts, oh well

10/17/2011 8:37:59 AM

I'd go find a second opinion from someone with a sports med background.

IMO, and I could be wrong but, whenever a doc or phys ther. say to take out all spinal loading, it is just a cop out.

10/17/2011 1:22:10 PM

this is about my 10th opinion, i've had a pinched l5s1 nerve since i was 14 from doing squats on a smith machine improperly...27 now, keep reaggrevating it during compressing movements(with poor form likely)...never took a serious step back from squats/dls/oh press to rehab it. I basically havent felt 2 of my toes in my left foot for a year and a half now and i get pangs all the time, i just need to get over the "i want to lift heavy ass weights" and start doing more DB work, PT said its ok to grab the heaviest DBs i can find and do squats/lunges and supported OH presses.

upper day

10min warmup
5min stretch
5x5x225 Incline bench
5x5 Muscle Ups/Widest Pull Ups(once I feel I fail at muscle ups I switch to pull ups)
5x5x17.5 Around the Worlds
5x5x50 Incline DB Flyes
5x5x3 plates Hammer Machine Rows

10/17/2011 5:48:43 PM

Thanks for the last advice MattJMM2.

Didnt go to failure yesterday and while I could still feel the tendinitis today it was probably only 20% as intense.

Ive basically taken the last 5 years off from weight training after some nerve damage I sustained but my shoulder is feeling good after two workouts and I got a little high off that sustained pump from last workout.

Question: I'm a skinny dude that tends to get great definition but im limited on the size i cagain. When I get cut I get traps and triceps that look almost magazine-ish, but i still have a bird chest. All my chest muscle is built on the outside pec and I have no cleavage and my pecs dont stick out far which makes my stomach look disproportionately larger than it is.

What the fucking fuck do I do to get better shaped pecs so I don't look like incredible hulk when i flare up and a backgammon champion when i walk natural? Is this just genetics or is there a way to train against this?

10/18/2011 12:40:04 AM

Have you tried eating twice as much?

10/18/2011 12:54:54 AM

Maybe throw in some more narrow grip and decline press?

10/18/2011 4:31:47 AM

3^

Incline dumbell press
Incline bench press
Incline flies
Pec Deck
Cable Crossovers from a really high pulley

The incline dumbell press is a primo way to add mass to your chest. and from your description, it seems like your genetics are disposing you to large outside gains. the dumbells will hit the sternum portion of your chest provided you keep your elbows in and will also nail the part of your pecs attached to your shoulder girdle. that's where the mass is, up near the girdle. flat bench won't bring it out. make sure that you give a squeeze at the top of the repetition also. think about cracking a walnut between your pecs at the top.

10/18/2011 8:27:46 AM

you can't focus on the inside vs. outside of your pecs; muscles don't grow in spots like that. You can develop your upper chest separate from the lower chest due to the fan shape of the pectoral muscle, but you can't focus on inside vs. outside development. That's just an old bodybuilding myth. Muscle grows in a genetically pretermined fashion, much like fat deposits go on in a genetically predetermined fashion.

You want a thick slab of chest mucles with a defined ridge down the middle? eat big and get stronger in the 8-12 rep range on the flat bench, and add in some fly exercises. That gap will fill in naturally when you pack on more muscle.

Incline benching is going to shift load onto your shoulders and off of your chest, so avoid it unless you know how to target your chest muscles with incline movements. Stay away from decline movements altogether. People love doing declines because they can move more weight, but they're only moving more weight because they're not having to move the bar as far. I personally don't think it's safe to have your head below your heart when having the blood pressure spikes that occur with weightlifting either.

You find a person in the gym that's added 100lbs to their 10-rep max on the flat bench, and I'll show you someone that's added 2 inches of chiseled muscle to their ribcage.

10/18/2011 10:39:39 AM

^Second that.

Stop nit picking over flaws in the mirror and focus on adding 100-150lbs on the big lifts (squat, bench, dead lift, over head press, rows, weighted chin ups).

You will gain muscle practically everywhere and look fucking solid.

This may take anywhere from 6months-3years given your genetics and training discipline.



[Edited on October 18, 2011 at 11:50 AM. Reason : -]

10/18/2011 11:48:47 AM

since switching from Gold's to Fitness 19, i can no longer decline and have been doing mostly incline, some flat for 2 months now and have noticed new stretch marks where the shoulders meet the chest, also been eating like a champ has helped...i'm getting fat though

10/18/2011 5:38:05 PM

I thought it was probably genetics, thanks.

I've been consciously trying to eat a lot more and that seems to be helping me grow faster than normal.

So when I used to bench a lot I used to always get severe wrist pain once I get in the ~170 lb range. I think I just have tiny wrists that can't take it. I'd get around it by just doing tons of sets/reps with slightly less weight.

Since then I've switched to dumb bells and I've never noticed any wrist pain. Any reason I should rotate in bench press with less weight or is it okay just to stick to the dumb bells?

10/18/2011 10:07:46 PM

the wrist pain you felt was most likely a result of poor form holding the bar. If you grip the bar high up in your hands like you would a broom, you're much more likely to roll your wrists backwards while lifting and strain your wrists and forearms. The bar should be gripped as low as possible in your hand, with the bar dug in snugly against your thumb. You should focus on keeping your wrists in a straight line and not letting them roll back during the lift.

If you're still experiencing pain and can't identify what in your technique is causing the pain, then switch to dumbbells. Training through pain is never healthy, but I'd try to identify what is causing the pain before abandoning a superior exercise. dumbbells get awkward when you start getting into big weights, and the risk of injuring yourself goes up drastically due to the motions required to shoulder the weight, perform the work, and then either drop the dumbbells or sit back upright with them.

[Edited on October 18, 2011 at 11:00 PM. Reason : typo]

10/18/2011 10:59:20 PM

i just want to let eleusis know that hes the man, i appreciate the advice you give dawg

10/19/2011 8:17:51 AM

Hmm I think you're right about the way I was gripping it ill have to try what you suggested next time.

10/19/2011 8:50:18 AM

I used to have terrible wrist pain when benching and so I would use heavy wrist wraps. Turns out I had a ganglion cyst in my wrist and a simple surgery later I can't believe I didn't do it sooner. If you don't have any pain when pressing your hand back with your other hand it probably isn't an option but if it does hurt try pressing down on the top of your wrist in the joint area, if there is noticeable pain it could be a cyst. Apparently they are pretty common, something to at least be aware of.

10/19/2011 9:55:47 AM

A question for the heavy squatters...

Have you ever had elbow pain (seems like the brachioradialis muscle) flare up from heavy back squats?

During the set there is no pain, but afterwards this throbbing deep pain in the elbow/brachioradialis arises and it really fucks with my grip and arm strength.

I have a feeling that as the bar approaches near maximal weights, it is slipping down my back or that it's causing some sort of stress on my shoulders/eblows.

Any ideas or tips?

10/19/2011 11:22:01 AM

tendonitis?

10/19/2011 12:12:12 PM

The pain I have always had lifting is actually in my palms while benching at higher weights. It's always fairly random in that I might get it really bad for two sessions in a row and it won't show back up again for weeks. I've never looked into it because I've rarely ever been forced to stop a lift because of it - it just gets rather uncomfortable.

/blog

10/19/2011 12:22:12 PM

do yall still lift if you're sickish?

my rule when i ran alot was is if the symptoms were over the neck, fuckin' do it.

got a sinus/throat infection going on now, don't want to screw up my schedule.

10/19/2011 3:46:46 PM

I'd cut the volume and intensity down, but getting the blood flowing and some exertion is probably helpful.

If at any point you begin to feel worse, stop. (duh)

10/19/2011 3:52:02 PM

I'll typically go hard when I'm sick. Because sometimes you just feel tired, you feel weak, and when you feel weak, you feel like you wanna just give up. But you gotta search within you, you gotta find that inner strength, and just pull that shit out of you and get that motivation to not give up and not be a quitter, no matter how bad you wanna just fall flat on your face and collapse.

10/19/2011 3:56:20 PM

Matt: yes, i get the pain in my elbows. you may try to widen your grip. i prefer a neutral grip because i can more easily "bend" the bar around my body. but a lot of wide bodies will use a super wide grip because it takes upper body mechanics out of the lift.

i find it hard to do, but i've never really practiced it. i would just experiment with the wider grip on your dynamic days to get the hang of it and slowly work your hands out until you find where you don't have anymore pain.

chalk helps with the slippage. so does having monster rear delts (which i don't have, but i have heard they exist).


eleusis posted a little earlier about adding muscle to your chest through eating and flat bench. he also mentioned that muscle doesn't grow inside/outside and that is an old myth. i agree with everything except the flat bench being superior. i have a very good bench press. i also have well developed shoulders, lats, medial traps, and triceps to go with it because my chest does very little in the movement based on my body mechanics.

now, i am not a body builder like eleusis, but i do have body building cycles in my program. i strongly advocate incline movements to get thick muscle on the upper portion of your pecs. while you can't control inside and outside, you can definately target the muscles on your shoulder girlde to grow and that is what will give you the massive upper chest (hell, arnold could balance a glass on the top of his pecs). try to stay away from isolation movements until the end of your workout. mass builders like bench press, incline bench press, and associated dumbell presses work best.

you have to find what works for you. if you can get there with the flat bench, good on ya. i can't. just remember to tweak your program to get results that work for you.

[Edited on October 20, 2011 at 8:06 AM. Reason : x]

10/20/2011 8:06:12 AM

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/platform_the_squat_bar_position

10/20/2011 9:02:28 AM

5x5x255 Flat Bench(too easy on final set)
5x5 Muscle Ups/Widest Pull Ups
5x5x17.5 Around The Worlds
5x5x95 Straight Arm Pulldowns
5x5x250 Pec Dec

10/20/2011 5:27:39 PM

^^ yep watched that the other day. I believe that is my problem.

10/20/2011 8:15:02 PM

Any suggestions for working on getting out of the bottom of a squat? Was doing some max effort work today and if I can get things going from the bottom I have no problem finishing the rep but I kept getting stuck at the bottom with slightly higher weight. Just increasing 10lbs made things go from no problem to not moving from the bottom.

10/20/2011 9:02:22 PM

regarding training while sick - I'll usually back off of the lifting and up the cardio. It helps to clear up congestion if I focus on keeping my heart rate and breathing elevated for a decent period of time, but I know I'm not going to be able to lift as productively as I'd like.

Quote :

"Have you ever had elbow pain (seems like the brachioradialis muscle) flare up from heavy back squats? ........ I have a feeling that as the bar approaches near maximal weights, it is slipping down my back or that it's causing some sort of stress on my shoulders/eblows. "

If the bar is actually slipping down your back, something is going wrong with the tightness of your back. You should have almost all of the weight supported on your shoulders and back, not on your wrists/elbows arms.

I'm one of the few people in here that high-bar squats instead of low-bar squatting, mainly because I squat for quad development instead of posterior chain development. As a result, I can't give you much advice on my experiences with elbow/joint pain when squatting since my squat mechanics are very different from that of a low-bar squatter. However, if you ever see me squat, you'll quickly notice that my wrists are only under the bar when I'm walking out of the rack for stability. I point my thumbs down the side of the bar and not underneath the bar when getting settled in, tilt my wrists underneath the bar only while taking a couple of steps back out of the rack for stability, and then tilt my wrists slightly over the top of the bar and press the bar into my traps during the lift. I'm never supporting any weight with my wrists; I'm actually pulling down on the top of the bar to keep it firmly planted into my traps and to keep my back tight. The last time I maxed out on squats, I was putting enough pressure on the top of the bar that the additional flex in the bar prevented me from reracking the weight at the same height I walked out of the rack with.

I wouldn't really consider myself a heavy squatter though; I move a decent amount of weight squatting for reps, but it's not necessarily "heavy" compared to my maximum strength. If I were training for maximal strength, I would change my squatting form to not involve so much motion adjusting the bar and coming out of the rack. I'd also be squatting low-bar as well. I wouldn't recommend my squatting techniques for anyone that is training for maximum strength or uses a lower rep range than 10-20 reps.

10/20/2011 9:35:27 PM

Eleusis do you compete in bodybuilding or just train that way?

10/20/2011 10:11:02 PM

I just train that way, but I'm contemplating signing up for something next spring and getting serious about a diet.

10/20/2011 11:40:16 PM

Keep us updated on when you start to lean out for a contest...

I'd like to learn more about contest prep, I have no experience with that. One niche I want to get in to is prepping models for photoshoots.



[Edited on October 21, 2011 at 8:02 AM. Reason : ;]

10/21/2011 8:00:50 AM

i thought all you did to prep for a contest was airbrush your photos?

10/21/2011 8:39:53 AM

haha that's what the photo editors do...

But there are a lot of parents of aspiring models and actors that are willing to pay big bucks to have their kids look "camera ready".

10/21/2011 9:27:40 AM

a sub 8% bf deserves a punch on one's man card, especially for an Endo

10/21/2011 12:46:35 PM

Let me see how this jives with you people:
Monday:
warmup 1/4mi jog, stretch
back squats: 3 sets of 9,8,7 reps
rest 5-10mins
shoulder press: 3 sets of 9,8,7 reps
cool down stretch

Tuesday:
swim: nothing intense, I am starting from the very bottom so for now it will be to work on form.

Wednesday:
warmup 1/4mi jog, stretch
bench press: 3 sets of 9,8,7 reps
rest 5-10mins
chin ups: 5 sets of 5 (gradually more) reps
cool down stretch

Thursday:
Not sure. Maybe swim again

Friday:
warmup 1/4mi jog, stretch
deadlifts: 3 sets of 9,8,7 reps
rest 5-10mins
pulls ups: 5 sets of 5 (gradually more) reps
cool down stretch

Saturday:
Yoga. When it's warm again I'll likely go out hiking or kayaking.

Sunday:
Rest

I pulled a lot of this from that leangains article that was posted a few weeks back but am open to any suggestions and/or addendums.
Goal(s): While looking nice would be great, I want to take these next 17 months to build a solid lift foundation of good form. I am doing a thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail in 2013 so over those six months will likely lose a lot of my upper body mass but with good fundamentals I'll be able to rebuild quicker once I get back. While I've been doing the p90x thing I feel that I may have contracted slight fuckarounditis (see article posted before) mainly due that program having very few, if any, squats and deadlifts. Thanks.

10/21/2011 4:07:23 PM

add some rows.

10/21/2011 4:18:19 PM

also, if you've not done serious lifting before, it sounds like you'd be ideal for a program like starting strength.

why not do something established like that?

if you're "trying to build a foundation" your body can respond to more volume on the compound lifts just fine.

i'm kinda in the middle of doing a restart, and starting over on strong lifts again, with like 50% of my 5RMs the first workout.... haven't hit a plateau yet, and am approaching my previous 5rms, but for five sets and am expecting to scream by them. i dont remember exactly how starting strength gets it's starting weights. linear progression every workout.

was additionally doing some more assistance work, but started not to be able to handle it, and am down to the three big lifts per day with dips/chins/pullups/weighted hanging leg raises as additional work.

squat volume is starting to get a bit hard though.

[Edited on October 21, 2011 at 5:07 PM. Reason : but im a huge noob]

[Edited on October 21, 2011 at 5:13 PM. Reason : e]

10/21/2011 5:07:27 PM

get rid of the pre-workout stretching, unless you're doing dynamic stretching. even then, I'd save it for the end of the workout. Studies show that stretching before a workout makes you MORE prone to injury, not less.

10/21/2011 5:11:01 PM

That's curious because it goes against everything we've always heard about exercise growing up. So just warm up the body some with a quick jog or a jump rope?

Quote :

"a program like starting strength."

I'm unfamiliar with that.

10/21/2011 6:34:37 PM

you probably got told that drinking water during exercise made you cramp, too.

warm up with a few really light sets of whatever you're going to be lifting. You could possibly warm up before that with a brisk walk on the treadmill for 3-5 minutes also.

10/21/2011 6:44:04 PM

^^^This probably isn't an issue for you, but I have some hip mobility issues from a life of being sedentary. If I don't deal with some of that tightness before training I'm not at all comfortable in the squat position.

[Edited on October 21, 2011 at 6:46 PM. Reason : ]

10/21/2011 6:46:20 PM

From what I have heard mobility work pre workout is good to do and static hip flexor stretches as well. The mobility work can be a wide variety of movements or foam rolling, foam rolling is by far my favorite way to loosen up.

10/21/2011 8:01:10 PM

if you're tight, then either foam roll or do some other form of dynamic stretching. The old static stretches they taught you in grade school sports do more harm than good.

10/21/2011 9:01:07 PM

I have to stretch between sets of squats or my quads cramp up

10/22/2011 5:09:54 PM

As mentioned, static stretches for the hip flexors are useful. As they tend to be overactive in most people. Doing so shuts them down a bit, and allows you to use your glutes more effectively.

Mobilizations, aka dynamic stretching, are useful to get target muscle groups ready for work. If you are generally sedentary, it's practically mandatory for safe heavy lifting.

It's not wise to statically stretch the prime moving muscles before a lift. As it "deactivates" them a bit, potentially limiting strength and stability.



[Edited on October 22, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : ']

10/22/2011 5:30:21 PM