Quote :

"Someone who feels the need to always have a firearm on them is not someone I want around my kid(s). It's a mindset thing. No offense..."

no offense taken. we are all victims of prejudice and stereotyping at times.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 5:44 PM. Reason : ..]

3/28/2012 5:44:17 PM

Quote :

"The world must seem like a very scary place to some of you cats. Haha, I simply can't imagine walking down the street, holding my breath and puckering my tight little asshole after being sketched out by all of the "dangerous minorities" walking around minding their own business."

pffffttt


whatever you want to think man

3/28/2012 6:21:02 PM

Ignoring the protection aspect for a moment, there are perfectly logical reasons why someone with a CCP would want to carry at all times. For one, to get comfortable with carrying. When you do something out of the ordinary, you tend to telegraph that. Think of the first time you put a wedding band on, how often did you find yourself playing with it and adjusting it? The last thing you want when carrying is to be having the urge (or need if you haven't gotten the fit right) to fiddle with your gun or to be telegraphing to other people that you are carrying. In some states, including NC I believe, revealing that you are carrying while carrying concealed (without a valid reason) can get you into a whole mess of trouble.

3/28/2012 6:46:29 PM

Quote :

"how often did you find yourself playing with it and adjusting it?"

i forgot i was even carrying it yesterday until i got home. today i was reminded about 100x because of this thread and touched it 0 times.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 7:03 PM. Reason : ,]

3/28/2012 7:01:48 PM

damn sparky, you're really coming off as a guy who is going to one day accidentally shoot your own child because you heard footsteps in the kitchen of your own home.

3/28/2012 8:08:41 PM

so you've never been held at knifepoint or had your door broken down while you were in the home i take it.


all it takes is one event and you'll be the first in line at the sheriffs office the next morning for a CC permit

3/28/2012 9:10:29 PM

to CC permit people:

There are places where you validly can't carry. Government buildings for one, but I imagine it's a large number of public places (almost all places I've ever worked included). I, of course, have never had to worry about it. You do.

What if you're out and the need comes up to go into one of these places. Do you go out of your way, possibly way out of your way, to put it in your car or home? Do you go up to the security officer and say "can you hold this?" I imagine they won't.

Plus, if brandishing it in public can get you into trouble, how would you even deposit it in your car? That means you'd have to take it out, and there could be people around that could see unless you drive one of those monstrosities with tinted windows.

3/28/2012 9:30:02 PM

I see people openly carrying all the time, even in raleigh.

3/28/2012 9:36:03 PM

^^hey the internet is very big and contains a lot of information on this topic and many many behaviors and practices are specified.

i encourage you to read up on this and then return and report your findings

3/28/2012 10:05:20 PM

New Police Video Shows George Zimmerman Unscathed On Night Of Trayvon Martin Shooting
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/new-police-video-shows-george-zimmerman-unscathed-on-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting/

3/28/2012 10:17:43 PM

Quote :

"If there's nothing suspicious about carrying a gun at all times, it's definitely made suspicious by the fact that you conceal that fact from your neighbors whose children play next to your house."

you are a moron. he didn't "conceal" the fact that he was carrying. Is a homosexual ashamed of himself if he doesn't tell every single person he meets on the street that he's a flaming fudge packer? or is it more likely that the topic just doesn't come up, so he doesn't talk about it? Could it be the same in this instance with sparky and the gun?


not only that, but you are trying to equate carrying a weapon with being paranoid. You'll start out and say, no it's cause he carries it all the time, so that makes him paranoid. I'll then say, "so what if he carries it 99 times out of hundred?" You'll say "still paranoid." I'll then ask, "ok, how about 90 times out of a hundred?" At some point, you'll be forced to either say that there is some threshold where it makes him paranoid, or you'll be honest with yourself and say that it's actually just that he carries it at all that makes him paranoid. But, you'll probably cling to the "threshold" argument, at which point I'll ask "well, why is he carrying at all? it's to be prepared, right? if he can only carry it up to a certain percentage of the time in order to make you happy, well, how does he know which times he goes out that he needs to carry?" Put another way, I keep an umbrella in my car all the time and I keep an umbrella at the office, too. Does that make me paranoid of rain? It's always there, so certainly that's over the threshold, right? or, maybe, I just wanna be prepared in case of rain.

So then you'll retreat to the "well, why are you CONCEALING IT?" route. To which, I'll rightfully point out that there are people out there who are irrationally afraid of guns. You seem to be one of them, despite your attempt at the "some of my best friends are/have guns" spiel. Either way, there are such people out there. Why needlessly panic others if the situation doesn't call for it? Why not use the permit he's obtained in order to have the best of both worlds: being prepared without freaking stupid people out? They can go about their lives, being afraid of guns, being none the wiser that a gun was actually within 15 feet of them and they didn't get shot.

3/28/2012 10:22:26 PM

Quote :

"The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford"

i suppose on a 140x105 pixel quality video with horrible lighting and the worst frame-rate possible, i imagine it would be hard to pick up already cleaned medically treated and cleaned wounds

YEP HE DOESNT HAVE A HOLE IN HIS BRAIN LETS LYNCH HIM

3/28/2012 10:31:33 PM

The video isn't definitive at all.

I love how you are ridiculing an argument that hasn't even been made yet.

3/28/2012 10:34:05 PM

Quote :

"lol I've been showing how it CAN go both ways."

no, you really haven't. unless by "showing how it can go both ways" you mean "blaming everything on the guy who got shot while carrying a bag of skittles and a bottle of tea." The only scenarios you come up with involve Trayvon being a drug dealer or a a burglar. The ONLY thing you are doing is saying, effectively, "Trayvon was black, so he must have done something wrong." Meanwhile, you give Zimmerman a pass on EVERYTHING, including the parts where his story simply doesn't line up. You say that "witnesses can lie," yet NEVER ONCE have you considered that maybe Zimmerman is lying. It's not like he's facing a murder/manslaughter charge or anything...

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 10:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/28/2012 10:39:41 PM

Here's a better link for the video.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3PLlzEgeSp

3/28/2012 10:43:03 PM

Wow Zimmerman doesn't look like what I thought, and doesnt look hurt at all.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/new-police-video-shows-george-zimmerman-unscathed-on-night-of-trayvon-martin-shooting/

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-zimmerman-video-20120329,0,7952997.story

I almost question if this is a legit video. I do see the cop looking at the back of allegedly zimmermans head though.

3/28/2012 10:46:24 PM

*says head was bashed repeatedly into concrete*

*shows up on video acting coherent with no signs of concussion, no bandages on nose or back of head, no blood on clothing, no grass stains, doesn't get checked out by a doctor until the next day, no photos of injuries taken by police*

*is cleared of all wrongdoing*

3/28/2012 11:01:02 PM

i can't wait for all of this to explode in your sick racist fucking faces



oj didn't kill nicole either.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 11:06 PM. Reason : ,]

3/28/2012 11:05:41 PM

The only racist is you. Deal with it.

3/28/2012 11:08:27 PM

i was gonna say you are probably a cool guy in real life


but that's everybody else. you are the one exception that's probably unbearable (which explains your huge post count and insane amount of time you've spent on here)

3/28/2012 11:17:31 PM

I'm trying to stay out of this until more facts come out but if corroborated this video is pretty damning to the police and to Zimmerman.

3/29/2012 7:58:24 AM

the question is... if somebody punched you in the face would you shoot?

it's a simple matter. how far does one need to go I guess.

I personally would have pulled the gun out and given several warnings as I withdrew seal team style with the barrel trained on him.

3/29/2012 8:44:25 AM

lol http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?p=CO+635&ct=e

3/29/2012 8:47:09 AM

Quote :

"damn sparky, you're really coming off as a guy who is going to one day accidentally shoot your own child because you heard footsteps in the kitchen of your own home."

not to derail the thread again but I don't understand this? you guys are making it sound like i'm some paranoid freak just because i'm protective over my family and property.

3/29/2012 9:29:47 AM

Quote :

"not to derail the thread again but I don't understand this? you guys are making it sound like i'm some paranoid freak just because i'm protective over my family and property."

It's not because you want to protect your family and property, it's because you think that in order to do so carrying lethal force at all times is a reasonable precaution.

3/29/2012 9:37:40 AM

I don't think it's weird to carry out and about or whatnot, but I really do find it odd that anyone would carry in broad daylight, in your neighborhood, while gardening. That is some conspiracy level paranoia. But maybe I'm naive.

3/29/2012 9:42:39 AM

^^well i guess to each his own, but that's just an example of prejudices and stereotypes.

^not paranoid, just breaking in my new holster. 80% of the time my gun is in my car (still considered carrying concealed) as i'm not allowed to carry in the office. at home is basically the only time i get to holster carry or if i'm out and about running errands, but that's mostly on weekends. i also don't carry if i'm drinking which is a big no no.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 9:48 AM. Reason : mm]

3/29/2012 9:44:40 AM

Using "stereotypes and prejudices" in this conversation to describe those pertaining to a set of behaviors is probably not the best idea. Being prejudiced against a person for a certain behavior is vastly different from being prejudiced against a person for their skin color. "Being black" is not a behavior people choose to do, it does not inherently reflect anything about their personality or mental state.

You're basically equating racial discrimination and behavioral assessment, almost as if to try and balance the "victimization" scales. This is exactly how this became a politicized issue. The gun crew is absolutely incapable of saying "That dude fucked up, he had no right to stalk, confront, and ultimately shoot that boy." because somebody might actually put a reasonable restriction on their "right" to play cowboy. You have a right to bear arms, that doesn't mean you have a right to be a Yosemite Sam with them.





[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 9:52 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 9:48:46 AM

choosing a way to dress or how some one carries them self is just as much a choice as carrying concealed

3/29/2012 9:50:10 AM

Black people should be warned that if they leave the house wearing anything but their Sunday Best they are asking to be shot. And if they walk with anything resembling pride or confidence then they're in trouble too. Short sleeve shirts are only acceptable if they're IZOD brand or have a State college logo.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 9:53:32 AM

Quote :

"not to derail the thread again but I don't understand this? you guys are making it sound like i'm some paranoid freak just because i'm protective over my family and property."

Dude, you live in a small, quiet North Carolina suburb where everyone knows each other. What is the worst thing that can possibly happen in your community? Having a gun on you while gardening? Who, in the history of mankind, has ever been attacked while planting azaleas?

The probability of you accidentally harming your own family with a fleeting moment of bad judgement or a miscalculation have got to be magnitudes higher than someone coming to rape you and your entire family at the top of your cul-de-sac.

Seriously, what hero fantasy are you waiting to live-out?

3/29/2012 10:02:14 AM

Quote :

"Dude, you live in a small, quiet North Carolina suburb where everyone knows each other. What is the worst thing that can possibly happen in your community? "

Some guy could bust down the church doors with a shotgun: http://www.goupstate.com/article/20120325/ARTICLES/120329781/1112?p=1&tc=pg

Carrying while going to church, what hero fantasy could that guy have been waiting to live out?

Quote :

"Who, in the history of mankind, has ever been attacked while planting azaleas? "

I know you're not seriously suggesting that no one in the history of the world has ever been attacked at home.

Quote :

"The probability of you accidentally harming your own family with a fleeting moment of bad judgement or a miscalculation have got to be magnitudes higher than someone coming to rape you and your entire family at the top of your cul-de-sac."

This is a fascinating argument to me. Do you regularly believe that you will have momentary lapses of judgement and injure the people around you? Guns don't magically go off by themselves.

3/29/2012 10:15:15 AM

The lot of you who are anti-carry, really have been conditioned in to thinking we live in this soft, pretty world where nothing bad happens.

Murder, rape, and all other violence happens. And it happens when you will least expect it.

There is nothing wrong with being responsible and going through the legal procedure to carry a gun and have the proper training to handle it effectively and safely. I am going to do it when my schedule frees up and I have enough time to dedicate to training for it.

Hopefully you will never be in a situation where you need a gun and you, or someone who can help you, doesn't have one.

Life isn't like the movies where the good guys always win, or opponents are evenly matched. Reality is fucking brutal; and I am going to have the tools to survive if shit hits the fan.

3/29/2012 10:18:30 AM

Quote :

"The lot of you who are anti-carry, really have been conditioned in to thinking we live in this soft, pretty world where nothing bad happens."

No, it's you who have been conditioned to believe the world is far more dangerous than it really is for white people in suburbia. The entire gun lobby relies on constant scaremongering, particularly about black people, who in the media are vastly over-represented as criminal, drug addicted, and poor (And I mean over-represented compared to reality, not a mythical neutrality).

You've also been conditioned to believe that keeping and carrying a gun will increase your chances of successful self-defense, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Quote :

"This is a fascinating argument to me. Do you regularly believe that you will have momentary lapses of judgement and injure the people around you? Guns don't magically go off by themselves."

It's not a matter of "belief", it's statistics about homo sapiens, like you, that you are not any different from.

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

Quote :

"The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders or assailants may well be misrepresented. A study of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998). Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). In another study, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and suicide in the home (Dahlberg, Ikeda and Kresnow, 2004). Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner. (Rothman et al, 2005). Individuals in possession of a gun at the time of an assault are 4.46 times more likely to be shot in the assault than persons not in possession (Branas et al, 2009). It would appear that, rather than being used for defense, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families."

Regardless of the moral issues of gun ownership, there are statistical realities about how the guns end up being used. There's no "belief" involved, unless you "believe" you're not like all those people in statistics (Hint: Every single one of them believed that too).

Accidental shootings, unjustifiable homocides, domestic abuse, suicides, and being shot by your own gun are all more likely outcomes than actual self-defense.

Just saying, if it's about protecting your family, statistically speaking, you should throw the gun out.

And a reminder: This isn't an argument for banning handguns or your rights to use them, I am against both of those. It's an argument that the mix of paranoia and hero-wannabe mentality that drive so many to CC is actually self-defeating and actually raises the chance of harm to you and your family. Thing is, every person who goes down that road believes they have uniquely sound judgement, uniquely stable emotions, uniquely good firearms training, and of course uniquely justified suspicions when they wander onto property that is not theirs with their gun to play neighborhood watch.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 10:34 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 10:26:49 AM

Who's living in suburbia? Raleigh is a large city. Crime fucking happens. Murders, assaults, robberies, thefts happen.

3/29/2012 10:28:14 AM

Read the thread, sparky does.

3/29/2012 10:29:19 AM

^^Also I would like to see that stat for CCP holders. Anybody can "own a gun". I have had a shotgun since I was in middle school. A lot of people have a gun sitting around the house that never gets touched, fired, or trained on regularly. Half the country may have one at home, but I bet most of them are damn near forgotten. Meanwhile most people that are CCing are probably the ones that train the most and up on the rules more than others because they legally have to be to get that permit renewed every 5 years. I have been a gun owner for most of my life, but I have not been an involved gun owner.

Comparing somebody who carelessly has a gun sitting around the house versus somebody who is regularly practicing and training are like comparing a mall cop to a Ranger. They both may have a gun, but they are VASTLY different.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 10:35 AM. Reason : ]

3/29/2012 10:34:13 AM

Quote :

"Comparing somebody who carelessly has a gun sitting around the house loaded versus somebody who is regularly practicing and training are like comparing a mall cop to a Ranger. They both may have a gun, but they are VASTLY different."

That remains to be proven, you think it's the case, so maybe you should shore up some evidence of it. People don't commit commit suicide because of a lack of training, and if a burglar steals your gun from the cabinet and shoots you there's no much training can do, same if your child gets ahold of it. Some unjustified homicides could probably be prevented by knowing the rules better, but many are just humans being homo sapiens and having irrational, emotional lapses of judgement. Going through CCP training in no way guarantees you have remarkable or exceptional emotional stability. It may even simply guarantee that you're more effective at executing your poor judgements.

This also assumes that CCP holders are, in general, otherwise equivalent to the average gun holder, which may not be the case. There may be particular personality traits that trend higher in CCP holders than the average holder which could distort those statistics in directions opposite from what you think. Is it not reasonable to assume that CCP holders might, on average, be more eager to use their gun than an apathetic, casual gun owner? Is it possible that traits like paranoia might run higher?

I'd be willing to believe without evidence that some reduction in accidental deaths occur, but I'm dubious as to how significant the difference is. Either way I'd like to see evidence before I believe the distinction is significant.


[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 10:46:45 AM

Quote :

"Murder, rape, and all other violence happens. And it happens when you will least expect it."

No one is railing against anyone carrying here. No one is judging someone who carries when they go out even. Simply stating there it seems ridiculous that someone would carry at 2pm in a suburban neighborhood while gardening. Hell even the guy in question said its just to get used to the holster and it isn't something he would regularly do.

Do you really think its odd that some of us would find that odd if he was doing that as a regular practice?

3/29/2012 10:48:27 AM

Are people really this terrified of the world around them?

3/29/2012 10:51:54 AM

Quote :

"Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner."

Damn, I guess I'll have to just keep beating my wife instead of intimidating her with a gun.

3/29/2012 10:52:39 AM

Quote :

"Damn, I guess I'll have to just keep beating my wife instead of intimidating her with a gun. "

Compromise and just pistol whip her.

3/29/2012 10:53:34 AM

Quote :

"Are people really this terrified of the world around them?"

You'd be shitting your pants like any other person when a guy with a mask has a gun to your head. Don't try the tough guy routine here, no one buys it.

It's not about being terrified, it's about being prepared. It doesn't matter how small of a chance there is of being attacked if you're dead. I don't understand the hate on people that carry a gun, but I can't say I'm surprised.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

3/29/2012 11:14:29 AM

Nice try destroyer but he obviously wasn't questioning the scariness of dangerous things, but the rate of incidence being significant enough to warrant wearing a gun on your side as opposed to, say, an aspirin in case of a heart attack.

Quote :

"I don't understand the hate on people that carry a gun, but I can't say I'm surprised."

Yes, you do understand, but you disagree with it, so you pretend the reasoning is entirely indecipherable to you. It's a tactic that dismisses opposing arguments without so much as even stating what they are, let alone addressing them. You probably picked this trick up from Ron "I don't understaaand whyyyy we do thiiiiis and also do thaaaat." Paul.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 11:17:54 AM

so what's your reaction when you see someone open carrying? i saw a guy open carrying the other day in Food Lion. he was carrying an XD9 with a Blackhawk Serpa holster. I applaud him for exercising his rights but think he should get his CCP.

3/29/2012 11:28:52 AM

Quote :

"Nice try destroyer but he obviously wasn't questioning the scariness of dangerous things, but the rate of incidence being significant enough to warrant wearing a gun on your side as opposed to, say, an aspirin in case of a heart attack."

What would count as "significant enough" to you? It doesn't matter, we're talking about life or death. You can determine if you're at risk of a heart attack. 99% of the time, you can walk alone on a deserted, unlit street in the city and be okay, but if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you might get robbed or worse.

Quote :

"Yes, you do understand, but you disagree with it, so you pretend the reasoning is entirely indecipherable to you. It's a tactic that dismisses opposing arguments without so much as even stating what they are, let alone addressing them."

No, I literally don't understand. This isn't a tactic - I'm baffled by your thought process, which shames people for wanting to be able to defend themselves. Murder and rapes can be prevented, but not if people take your advice.

I get part of your argument - that the chance of something wrong happening with the gun might be higher than the chance of needing to use the gun to defend yourself. The part you're not getting is that it doesn't fucking matter. This isn't a fucking statistics class, this is real life where you can get killed. It's up to the individual to make sure they aren't the one that does something stupid with a gun.

I also think it's hilarious that you managed to tie the desire to carry a gun to being scared of black people. Knowing you, it's expected.

3/29/2012 11:42:07 AM

At least open carriers are honest and forthright. That's far less suspicious than finding out somebody that was talking to me and my children was secretly packing one.

To be fair though, they probably have the smaller cocks compared to CCP'ers.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 11:42:11 AM

Quote :

"What would count as "significant enough" to you? It doesn't matter, we're talking about life or death. You can determine if you're at risk of a heart attack. 99% of the time, you can walk alone on a deserted, unlit street in the city and be okay, but if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you might get robbed or worse."

The chance of dying in a car accident over your lifetime is 1 in 100. Does that justify taking a 24/7 precaution (Not riding in a car) against it? No, of course not. You're arguing that the existence of a chance of death is alone sufficient to justify a corresponding precaution. Do I really need to start talking about lightning strikes, shark attacks?

Quote :

"I get part of your argument - that the chance of something wrong happening with the gun might be higher than the chance of needing to use the gun to defend yourself. The part you're not getting is that it doesn't fucking matter. This isn't a fucking statistics class, this is real life where you can get killed. It's up to the individual to make sure they aren't the one that does something stupid with a gun. "

It's not that it "might' be higher. It is higher. Again, every single person who CCP's thinks they're special and different and uniquely rational and responsible and those statistics don't apply to them. That's just another egotistic delusion that makes me suspicious of them. It doesn't require stupidity, having that gun also raises the odds through entirely circumstantial factors that are beyond the owner's control.

Quote :

"I also think it's hilarious that you managed to tie the desire to carry a gun to being scared of black people. Knowing you, it's expected."

It's not outlandish. People who think it's necessary to carry a gun at all times who haven't personally been attacked in the past are likely going on their perception of the risks as presented to them through media and culture. If they're this susceptible to the exaggerated incidence presented in media, they're probably also susceptible to the exaggerated portrayal of blacks as criminal.

Moreover, that speculative reasoning aside, I've just noticed the correlation from my own experience with CCP'ers.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 11:51 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 11:47:31 AM

Open carry seems like a statement more than anything. Has it become more commonplace in the past few years?

I carry concealed, no need to panic soccer moms and such.

3/29/2012 11:48:23 AM

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

3/29/2012 11:49:21 AM