Quote :

"i dunno, maybe not bamboozle everybody with his hope and change campaign that he'll fix everything in the near future? honestly i wouldnt expect shit, because just like (insert any politician ever), he's a fucking politician, so i'd just expect him to do whatever he could to get money/power OMG HE'S BLACK THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT"

This kind of thinking pisses me off. The president isn't nearly the powerful entity some people think he is. I don't understand why people get so irate over whether or not he is/isn't getting shit done; the dude at the end of the day only signs off on bills. HE DOESN'T WRITE THEM. If people want change.............real, tangible change...............TAKE A LOOK AT GODDAMN CONGRESS. Congress absolutely deserves the exact same microscope the president gets thrust under every election. These here are the people who are authoring these bills and have much more of an impact over whether things get done than somebody who does little more than alleviate the American public and wait until something gets shat out of the Congressional black box to (maybe) sign.

8/28/2012 5:04:31 AM

^do you feel the president shares any blame for not getting things done when he had a super majority then?

PLEASE dont tell me that contacts are covered only in extreme cases, Im an eye doctor. There are several medicaid plans that cover contacts. The same is with braces. You can count on a medcaid kid having ADHD (so they get a disablity check) and having braces. Funny story when I was first out of school another doctor in the practice asked if I noticed how many medicaid kids were ADHD. So we started charting it. After a month it was close to 90%, we werent sure what to do with the data, who do you call the CDC? About that time she had a social worker as a patient who told her it was so the kids would get a disablity check. 400-500 a month per child.

Are your non payers making under 17k have a negative income tax? That is one thing to do away with. The negative income tax. How do your 78k rich people avoid taxes? Breaking the law or by obeying the law? Writting off loses and using tax free income streams. I contribute to my Roth IRA and one day I hope I draw a good bit off of it at retirement tax free. But Im sure some kid will think that is their money and I shouldnt be allowed to have that tax free income I invested under the law.

Dont get me started on the CBO, name a projection they have gotten right. But Ill double the amount from the CNN article, hell we can even triple the CBO number, we still arent there. Not even close, when you know that the boomers and debt costs are going to explode. The point is that much more revenue is generated by those UNDER 250k. Raise them on EVERYONE. Not as many voters to piss off in the over 250k group though, and most people have bought the lie that raising the taxes on the rich will fix things. Ridiculous.

The problem IS 100% entitlements(btw, not the job of the federal govt). Scrap the entire defense budget(actually the job of the federal govt), we will be back to trillion dollar deficits in a couple years. We dont take in enough money to currently to fund mandatory spending. Again these are entitlements and servicing the debt. We could cut everything else and raise the taxes on the rich and we would have enough to pay those for a year or two. They both are only going to grow. The boomers are coming and adjusting any of these programs are off limits to dems. Hell simply changing it in the future (which does nothing to the upcoming disaster) is being attacked by dems.

Noen, I do like your idea of saving during good times but you have to admit that is a pretty naive statement. THe history of govt is to increase spending to whatever new revenue is, and keep spending MORE when revenue declines. haha. How much did your taxes go down in NC once the education lottery went in? Schools overfunded now? Have plenty of money? Just look around.

Quote :

"Sin taxes have had ZERO causal effect on smoking or drinking. "

Geez. Again you are ignoring basic economics. Does price affect sales? haha, of course.

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/what_we_do/state_local/taxes/

"Tobacco tax increases are one of the most effective ways to reduce smoking and other tobacco use, especially among kids. Every 10 percent increase in cigarette prices reduces youth smoking by about seven percent and total cigarette consumption by about four percent."

Quote :

"The housing credit had no appreciable impact "

"The credit has caused a surge in sales and has been widely lauded for helping to stabilize prices. In places like Lafayette, Ind., where the number of homes sold in March was up 48 percent over last year, real estate agents say they have been inundated with buyers like James and Aubrey Green, students at Purdue University, who said the credit had persuaded them to jump into the market.

“We were happy in our apartment, but $8,000 was just too much to pass up,” said Mr. Green


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/business/27home.html

Again, basic economics.

I agree it was a bad program. Just like the credit for buying cars, it simply moved up purchases and then had a void after the credits expired. But it did affect behavior, there is no doubt.

8/28/2012 8:32:06 AM

Quote :

"The problem IS 100% entitlements(btw, not the job of the federal govt). Scrap the entire defense budget(actually the job of the federal govt), we will be back to trillion dollar deficits in a couple years. We dont take in enough money to currently to fund mandatory spending. Again these are entitlements and servicing the debt. We could cut everything else and raise the taxes on the rich and we would have enough to pay those for a year or two. They both are only going to grow. The boomers are coming and adjusting any of these programs are off limits to dems. Hell simply changing it in the future (which does nothing to the upcoming disaster) is being attacked by dems."

No, entitlements are off-limits to Republicans, not Democrats. The crippling "entitlement" spending is social security and medicare, programs that are already paid into. The Republicans want to get votes by fighting for a no-cuts-no-way platform to win the boomer vote.

Did you see the ads?



Obama = medicare reformed, and by extension, cut
Romney = no medicare cuts, no way, no how



Medicare + SS = 43%
I should also point out that in some recent years, deficit funding was nearly half of federal government funding. That means you can ignore the entire rest of government and these two programs will have us in deficit territory with how the federal wants to tax.

Anyone who goes on a tangent about our entitlement problem being anything other than medicare + SS is categorically wrong, and anyone who categorizes the Democrats as the party that makes entitlements the sacred cow is also categorically wrong. The above video and pie chart are absolutely incontrovertible evidence for this.

Quote :

"The boomers are coming and adjusting any of these programs are off limits to dems"

Watch the Romney ad. Go fucking watch it and tell me what my view on the two parties should be. This is nonsense.

[Edited on August 28, 2012 at 9:41 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2012 9:37:51 AM

Quote :

"Tax success, regardless of cause. With that revenue, ensure equal OPPORTUNITY for everyone to achieve equal or greater success themselves. That's the conservative ideal I wish to see. "

Yes, I'm fully willing to cede my rights on the off chance that a politician, who got to where they are through lies and deception, will "do the right thing" with money that isn't theirs.

8/28/2012 10:19:55 AM

Quote :

" What is extremely fair is a flat rate dollar value tax per person once they reach age. But that's extremely unrealistic, so I'll settle with a flat rate fee across the board with no deductions or loopholes. "

You know, this was basically the story of the French Revolution.

In a certain sense, I totally agree. The reason is that if everyone had the same tax obligation, they wouldn't ever allow a CEO to make 450 times the wage of the average worker. They would march right into the CEO's office and inform him that the workers will assume his prior responsibilities. In other words, individual people would take the responsibility for creating an egalitarian society. But you know... for the record, in the real world, this tends to play itself out by the rich getting their heads severed.

8/28/2012 10:25:17 AM

^ flat taxers and libertarians don't care about reality.

They like simple, canned solutions that are easy for them to digest.

8/28/2012 10:30:51 AM

Again, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with a flat tax. It gets the incentives aligned correctly. The only problem is that it's incompatible with the market valuations of different people's labor in the economy we live in today.

I would like our economic system to be fundamentally stable. In order for that to happen, people who make less would need to work more and live more frugally until balance is attained. Those who can produce a large hourly wage would spend much less time working. If total savings increases, interest rates fall, redistributing the wealth back to labor. As people's savings increase, their earning potential would decrease, and those who scrape the bottom of their bank account would be more capable of earning more money.

In the world we live in CEOs work 100 hour weeks. As interest rates fall to near zero unemployment stays high. Ironically, the latter is done under the motivation of stabilizing the economy. As people's savings increase, their earning potential increases as well. The rest is dumb math.

stable system: dA/dt = -A
unstable system: dA/dt = A

I must admit though, this is overly-formalistic. In reality no economic system is globally unstable, just as no physical system is globally unstable (except for dark-energy). They're unstable until the boundaries of the system is reached. Human society can only ever see temporary instability, which continues until revolution.

[Edited on August 28, 2012 at 10:46 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2012 10:45:27 AM

mrfrog NEITHER party will touch the current medicare/SS for the boomers. Just too many voters in there.

Have you not seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1Z4U

Ryans plan changes it to a voucher system for our generation, doesnt affect the current group or boomers. Both sides do this which is why there is little hope of getting anything under control.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/pelosi-my-deficit-committee-members-will-oppose-all-entitlement-benefit-cuts.php

Pelosi talking about opposing ALL entitlement cuts for the deficit committee.

[Edited on August 28, 2012 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

8/28/2012 10:54:53 AM

Quote :

"Both sides do this which is why there is little hope of getting anything under control."

I think this is a fair assessment of the situation. The problem of course, as you know, is that both sides are deficit spenders basically indefinitely into the future. Neither of them even has a plan that stops the deficit, much less eats down the debt. Now, that's not to say they don't release plans. They sometimes do, but none of them would see spending under control in 2020 under anything close to realistic assumptions.

The reality is that interest rates are the only thing that can balance the budget. We have the luxury of super cheap rates (something like 3% overall), which make the payments a small fraction of the budget. Interest rates have a way of balancing the budget by making it unbalanced. Once people see that self-reinforcing cycle, the institution basically just loses their credit line altogether.

But that's also wrong. It's pretty absurd to think that the people with the printing press will let interest rates, of all things, crush us in insolvency. At that point, we would probably be talking about something much closer to the monetary crisis certain people refer to.

The best we can hope for is that Europe and Japan hit the fan first. But even that's wrong. We tend to look at China and the developing world as organizations with their fiscal house in order, but that's only because we focus on the balances between us and them. Many maintain that the debt crisis is even worse in those places, but to their credit, the authoritarian regimes of the world probably have a better shot at using accounting tricks to quietly suck the wealth out of their people than we do. But this conflicts with my position that our government isn't much better than China's. I think a more reasonable scenario is that our defense contractors come up with a brilliant way to steal wealth from the American people while the official books are nothing but rosy and shiny rainbows, then they sell said solution to China after we're done.

The good news is that if we're going to use slight-of-hand accounting tricks to give the country all the mutually exclusive things they want, but really just screwing them, Romney is 100% the right man for the job.

[Edited on August 28, 2012 at 11:56 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2012 11:54:44 AM

Quote :

"This year we are running 1.2T deficit. (4th straight year with a deficit over 1T) To let the bush tax rates expire on the rich would raise 40B a year. So we get to 1.16T, almost there. lol Letting them expire on those under 250k would raise 230B a year. A bit better, but no where near what we need."

Isn't the deficit so large because federal revenues plummeted four years ago when large numbers of tax payers lost their jobs?

8/28/2012 12:25:11 PM

^federal revenue was 2.5T in 2008, 2.1T 09, 2.2T 10, 2.3T 11, 2.5T 12

was 2T in 2000, btw

So I dont think you can blame income as the reason we are running over 1 T deficits. 2007 was the peak at 2.6T.

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/fed_revenue_2008USrn

8/28/2012 12:37:33 PM

It seems that the deficit is so large because a) a budget hasn't been passed in four years and b) the government continued to spend and increase spending despite less taxes being paid. Balanced budgets be damned. Good call, on their part.

8/28/2012 12:37:49 PM

Keep in mind the scale starts at 14%

8/28/2012 12:44:24 PM

[LEAKED VIDEO] Mitt Romney talks about using Chinese slave labor to profit Bain Capital


http://youtu.be/WEkDYkuuPD4



"The guard towers weren't to keep the slaves in. The guard towers and fences were meant to keep others from coming in!" (paraphrased)

Chinese people wanted to be slaves so bad, they couldn't resist!

[Edited on August 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2012 12:52:46 PM

^^^^
That would suggest a loss of revenue of nearly a trillion dollars accumulated over three years.

Is it fair to say, "Not the most significant factor, but a significant factor, none the less"?

8/28/2012 1:42:06 PM

^sure.

Let look at federal spending.

2007 and on, 2.7T, 3.0T(08), 3.5T(09), 3.5T(10), 3.6T(11), 3.8T(12),

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/fed_spending_2012USrn

8/28/2012 1:50:52 PM

huh, that 08 to 12 increase is rather interesting, but a large amount of the increase went to pensions.



But maybe that's for all levels of government. and maybe the image won't load anyway.

8/28/2012 2:08:58 PM

I appreciate the numbers.

I only ask out of my own curiosity, and I assume you're more familiar with the website than I am:

Where would I locate amounts spent toward the Department of Homeland Security? Is that located in Defense spending or somewhere entirely different?

8/28/2012 2:12:35 PM

those 2 websites are great for actual numbers. For some reason the federalspending one loads better in chrome than IE.

^http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Homeland_Security

Cabinet department

spent 66B in 2011

8/28/2012 2:32:12 PM

The governmentspending.com site only gives broad subcategories

You could just look somewhere else.

8/28/2012 2:41:12 PM

^, ^^
Thanks.

8/28/2012 2:43:29 PM

8/28/2012 3:11:52 PM

^ I don't understand what is supposed to be bad about what he said there

8/28/2012 3:44:51 PM

Quote :

"^ I don't understand what is supposed to be bad about what he said there"

8/28/2012 5:11:56 PM

Quote :

"^ I don't understand what is supposed to be bad about what he said there"

8/28/2012 5:22:33 PM

Come on guys, lets get real. The federal government has to spend more money to help the struggling economy so that the federal government can reduce its deficit. Shit, you'd think you guys didn't take one damn economics class.

8/28/2012 5:32:36 PM

Romney passes 1144.

8/28/2012 5:41:25 PM

Quote :

"^ I don't understand what is supposed to be bad about what he said there"

Romney was in China to create jobs there, rather than in the US.

8/28/2012 5:46:30 PM

so... he was doing the job he was hired to do?

the horror!!!!!!!

8/28/2012 5:48:02 PM

^Why do you hate America?

8/28/2012 5:51:30 PM

^i'm wondering the same thing about you

8/28/2012 5:56:17 PM

It's funny how many people can't see lies when they're presented to them.

8/28/2012 6:55:40 PM

Romney's central point in the video is that it is awe-inspiring how fortunate American citizens are compared to the Chinese factory workers.

His ending point is a little garbled, but something about how amazing it is that we can "share with the rest of the world", presumably referring to our standard of living. You're free to take it in a negative light, but this isn't damaging to him in the slightest. I mean fuck, this reflects better on him than 99% of the crap that comes out of his mouth.

Heck, I wish he would talk honestly in public. The problem with Romney is that he's a coward. I would love the shit out of him if he went on national news and explained the tax loopholes he used. He should talk to a national audience about what he knows about Chinese business competitiveness. That's what he has to qualify himself beyond Obama. But he won't, because he's afraid of making people upset. Even more than other politicians, he will tell the audience whatever he thinks they want to hear.

His tax returns and his business history wouldn't be a problem like this if not for the fact that he won't even own his own history. He accepts the shame that his opponents have projected on him. He's acts like he has something to hide. Everyone sees it, he has no backbone.

8/28/2012 7:32:17 PM

His ads are racist and full of lies.

8/28/2012 7:32:44 PM

Quote :

" if not for the fact that he won't even own his own history. He accepts the shame that his opponents have projected on him. "

yep. how'd that work out for John Kerry?

8/28/2012 9:25:50 PM

Sounds like he wants to go to war with Iran and Russia.

Quote :

"every American is less secure today because he [Obama] has failed to slow Iran's nuclear threat. In his first TV interview as president, he said we should talk to Iran. We're still talking, and Iran’s centrifuges are still spinning. President Obama has thrown allies like Israel under the bus, even as he has relaxed sanctions on Castro's Cuba. He abandoned our friends in Poland by walking away from our missile defense commitments, but is eager to give Russia's President Putin the flexibility he desires, after the election. Under my administration, our friends will see more loyalty, and Mr. Putin will see a little less flexibility and more backbone. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/mitt-romney-speech-republican-national-convention-full-text-article-1.1148561?pgno=7#ixzz25BQu5ve8"

8/31/2012 11:02:54 PM

you guys act like money is the only issue worth discussing.
What about the environment, civil rights, and education.
These things are all related to the overall health and well being of people in this country.
Pile up your money but when you can't drink the water and are sick from the air it won't do you much good.

9/1/2012 2:01:44 AM

Quote :

"Pile up your money but when you can't drink the water and are sick from the air it won't do you much good."

Rich people will always have clean water and air.

They'll make sure of it.

9/1/2012 11:26:35 AM

9/6/2012 7:00:05 PM

cuz he don't have big ole Obama ears?

9/6/2012 9:39:48 PM

9/8/2012 4:34:57 PM

Reasons I like Romney.
http://www.ijreview.com/2012/09/15290-case-closed-if-moderate-voters-see-this-video-its-over-for-obama/

9/8/2012 4:40:29 PM

^^ if 'we're in it together' means propping up liberal fucks such as yourself, i'm perfectly content fending for myself, thank you very much.

^lol, obammy is such a joke...i especially love around 5:15 when he tries to argue his policy isn't a tax increase

[Edited on September 8, 2012 at 4:52 PM. Reason : .]

9/8/2012 4:46:51 PM

^ It's about as funny as Romney's promise to lower taxes and lower the deficit...

9/8/2012 5:20:24 PM

Lower taxes increases spending which equal more tax revenue.
Decrease gov't spending means the gov't has more money
Combine the two and pay down the deficit.

9/8/2012 5:25:55 PM

^ except everything he's proposed, the math doesn't add up. Even with an optimistically high 1% increase of the economy.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/romneys-impossible-tax-promise/

9/8/2012 7:33:21 PM

None of you fucks know shit. I'm voting for whoever gives me the most money. I don't give a shit about anyone's ideals or theories. Just give me my fucking money and shut the fuck up.

9/8/2012 8:58:34 PM

9/8/2012 11:23:58 PM

So we have to choose between total control via police state or total control via socialism?




[Edited on September 8, 2012 at 11:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/8/2012 11:29:44 PM

Newman hates Romney too!

9/8/2012 11:43:30 PM