https://www.oliverexplains.com/p/the-rights-anti-trans-playbook-was

Quote :

" The Right's Anti-Trans Playbook Was Used Against Blacks And Others Before"

6/6/2023 12:14:51 PM

Quote :

"Robbing the Peter to create Paulina."

Lol, good one

6/6/2023 6:45:33 PM

I don't think TGL3 liked it.

6/6/2023 7:56:44 PM

Isn't Peter also slang for penis

there are layers to this

6/7/2023 2:21:46 AM

Yes, that was a key element of the joke.

6/7/2023 6:08:16 AM

Yeah, I now realize you meant it. Was fixated on the wording by the other dude

6/7/2023 10:00:01 AM

https://twitter.com/mattxiv/status/1666176292687867907?s=46

Quote :

" looking at the homophobic moral panic from the 70s next to the transphobic moral panic from now is pretty wild"

call me crazy, but I’m more than fine not being on the same side of the issues as those two

[Edited on June 9, 2023 at 1:40 PM. Reason : .]

6/9/2023 1:37:22 PM

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/anti-trans-moral-panics-endanger-all-young-people/

6/12/2023 3:40:32 PM

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/02/16/as-spain-advances-trans-rights-sweden-backtracks-on-gender-affirming-treatments-for-teens

Quote :

"Back in 2015, the Swedish health authority had stated that puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones were “safe”. These treatments are designed to help people with gender dysphoria transition from their biological sex to the gender they personally identify with. Sweden’s National Board of Health and Welfare explains that the reason behind the rollback is that little is known about the effects of these treatments over the long term and "the risks outweigh the benefits currently"."

Quote :

"According to the Swedish health authority, the trend is particularly visible among 13- to 17-year-olds assigned female at birth, with an increase of 1,500 per cent between 2008 and 2018. Experts say the reasons for this increase remain largely a "mystery". "Tolerance has been high in Sweden for at least the last 25 years, so you can't say it has changed," Landen said when asked if it was simply a result of a more accepting society."

Quote :

"In 2019, there were at least 13 minors who suffered from "serious side effects,” according to Swedish reports. One of them had developed osteoporosis - a health condition that weakens bones - after taking puberty blockers. Others have suffered from liver damage, significant weight gain and depressive symptoms."

I truly wish the best for trans people, especially for the kids who have to struggle with this at such a young age and such a confusing time.
It really is confusing, and it being politicized makes it worse, but I suppose is only natural.

In popular media, you either have the maniacs seeing them as some manifestion of devil, or those, who even with good intentions, have them as a part of their overall agenda (and I use agenda not as some buzzword meaning some ill intentioned scheme, but as it is defined).

I think that in the overall debate of wanting them to succeed and find their true self, we may forget some of the basics and that they are... kids.

[Edited on June 13, 2023 at 10:35 AM. Reason : -]

6/13/2023 10:30:35 AM

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/431500/Girl-9-accused-of-being-trans-at-Kelowna-track-meet

Quote :

" Two Kelowna moms are speaking out after their 9-year-old daughter was verbally assaulted at a track and field event on Thursday at Kelowna's Apple Bowl. The mothers, who choose not to identify their daughter, say she was competing in a shot-put event when a grandfather of one of the other participants started yelling at her. "She went to step up to compete for the grade four shot-put final, and right before she went to throw, a grandfather of a student said, 'Hey, this is supposed to be a girls' event, and why are you letting boys compete.' My daughter is cisgender, born female, uses she/her pronouns. She has a pixie haircut," said mom Heidi Starr. Starr says the man then carried on to demand certification to prove that her daughter was born female. "He stopped the entire event. He also pointed at another girl who also had short hair. He then piped in and said, 'Well, if she is not a boy, then she is obviously trans.'" Starr said the man's wife then started calling her "a genital mutilator, a groomer, and a pedophile.""

6/13/2023 2:08:11 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trantifa-experts-warn-increasing-trend-extremism-violence-far-left-transgender-activists

6/13/2023 3:12:04 PM

the framing of that article is insane and absurdly disingenuous

I bet there’s at least one user on here who fell for it, though

6/13/2023 6:15:28 PM

follow up to ^^^

[link] https://newrepublic.com/post/173635/nine-year-old-girl-canada-left-sobbing-attacked-trans[/link]

[Edited on June 14, 2023 at 1:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2023 1:57:34 PM

6/18/2023 12:48:48 PM

I just don't know. Not having to potentially deal with this weirdness on a personal level is an upside to probably never having kids.

I can't rationalize the term "sex assigned at birth". It's biological sex assigned at conception by the sex chromosomes present in every single cell in your body. What does a second-grader know about it? Likes to wear earrings and dresses and a mermaid costume. That's a far cry from penis removal.

When a transgender person gets married, am I correct in assuming that their partner is fully aware of their status and history?

Expecting an angry reply, but dude, this is some weird stuff. Good luck to those parents.

6/18/2023 5:26:31 PM

this is unrelated to gender, but I remember reading about one case where some person struggling with behavior issues was prescribed some drug. and cause of that drug, he has side effects which led to another prescription. and so on and so on.
after a while it just becomes a web of effects, and the root issue was forgotten

I think half the problem when discussing the topic is grouping all trans people together
people develop issues with dysphoria at different ages, and since we don't know one definitive cause yet, probably from different reasons
I bet a lot of people may have developed gender dysphoria from some form of trauma, be it sexual or maybe intense bullying as a kid, who knows
again, this won't be it for everyone, but that's the point

edit:
I'm also gonna add that as a society, even in one as where we supposedly place a great value on free expression and all. We fit kids into one box with school. I wholeheartedly believe that many issues that kids face stem from a structural issue that cause a butterfly effect with everything else. you can't just fix people like solving algebra and hitting a checklist.
I think it often just comes down to your parents. Some may be too anti-science and some are too trusting of their local doctor and the school nurse.

Also gonna affirm the post I made a few above on Sweden. I think they're usually ahead of the curve on societal issues

[Edited on June 19, 2023 at 7:14 AM. Reason : --]

6/19/2023 7:03:41 AM

^^Exceptions for abnormalities of the sex chromosomes where I suppose historically there has been a binary "assignment at birth" based on a best available judgment.

6/19/2023 8:06:54 AM

^^^For the marriage question, I would assume that topic would need to come up fairly early. The ability to have children is a big deal for some folks, so that topic might need to come up early as well. Maybe not so much a big deal anymore at our age, but younger folks dating, that's good information to have early on in a relationship.

And I know this is hard for some of the folks on here who have such a wide-open mind to understand, but more people than you think would have a hard time if someone told them three years into a relationship that they used to be the opposite sex. I'm assuming it would be fairly easy to tell if you are talking about someone who transitioned from female to male, but the other way around, maybe not so much....I don't know though, I've never seen the anatomy of someone who has transitioned. 3 years in, everybody ought to be pretty familiar with each other's anatomy.

6/19/2023 9:46:27 AM

what an odd way for you guys to tell on yourselves

6/19/2023 10:29:24 AM

k

Consider me told on, then. I don't notice many people really going with you on this.

Perhaps you can enlighten us. This is your never-ending crusade. Someone asks a question in good faith (but intentional lack of tact) and you respond with your typical condescending attitude. It's not much of a personal concern for me because there's a virtually zero chance I'd ever be affected, but you could instead use your superior understanding of these complex social, biological, and medical issues to earn converts.

It's unclear to me what kind of reaction or perspective would ever satisfy you on this topic other than one that perfectly aligns with your own. Lack of discrimination is not enough. What does it take? Unequivocal support of something you cannot understand and remain unconfident is even the correct path? Like I said, I'm thankful I don't have to deal with it.

6/19/2023 10:45:05 AM

you responded to a video about how gender-affirming care for kids can be life-saving with idiotic gay/trans panic defense bullshit

6/19/2023 10:48:02 AM

I love how the concerns people have here are being compared to the gay panic. Were children who tracked gay during that panic being pulled aside and given potentially life-altering drugs to help them ease into their feelings?

I'm pretty sure TGL doesn't have children either, yet he's somehow able to speak for all parents here - those on both sides.

6/19/2023 11:03:01 AM

don’t have to have kids to not want the state to take away rights/life saving treatment to those who need it

basic human rights, my dude

also, the two of you literally used a version of the gay/trans panic defense

6/19/2023 11:54:42 AM

I consider myself liberal, but also rational to a fault. Honestly, we probably align on 90% or more of issues, but you're on a different planet on this with no room for anyone who can't immediately see it your way or even has questions about it. I actually don't think the government should mandate what informed parents, children, and healthcare professionals can do (and where did I say they should), but I watched the video you posted in full and left with more questions than answers. I mean, the notion of sex being "assigned at birth" with a negative connotation as if someone is deciding to make you live a way you don't want to is ridiculous to me. We're all unwitting outcomes of a big genetic lottery. I have certain inherited health conditions I'd probably prefer not to have, but I can't will or wish it away. There are certain immutable facts that you don't get to select according to your preferences.

6/19/2023 1:28:17 PM

there is an entire field of study on the issue

no matter how many times you profess your ignorance on the subject, that will always be the fall back

[Edited on June 19, 2023 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2023 1:48:51 PM

I'm sure he'd be surprised at how many issues on which I agree with him. But like I've said before, my views on this particular topic make me an immutable, bigoted oaf.

6/19/2023 3:34:24 PM

This is purely anecdotal based on reddit and things like that but I think in the trans community it's expected you are honest and up front about your orientation as early as possible in a relationship. Makes sense even for self preservation, avoids future heartbreak and lessens risk of violent reaction down the road. I think someone on tww briefly dated a pre bottom surgery trans woman and she was open about it.

That said the world is full of dishonest people of all orientations.


It was a "confession" so who knows how real. And after a kiss so not as "early as possible", still pretty early though. See this post and the next page or two
https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=580984&page=333#16500108

[Edited on June 19, 2023 at 3:45 PM. Reason : E]

6/19/2023 3:40:46 PM

I know that you don’t think that it is, but none of that is a valid reason for the government to strip away the rights of trans people

6/19/2023 3:47:23 PM

Not sure if you were responding to me or rjr, I was just trying to answer the marriage questions above.

6/19/2023 3:49:43 PM

was responding to this:

Quote :

"That said the world is full of dishonest people of all orientations."

I realize that you qualified it, but those whose fear is based on somehow being tricked probably wouldn’t have

6/19/2023 3:54:13 PM

Yea i mean if you're worried about being tricked that much, might want to see a therapist before getting into a relationship. If you date more than 2-3 people in your life, chances are you're gonna be "tricked" at least once.

[Edited on June 19, 2023 at 4:02 PM. Reason : "you" in that post meaning "anyone" not someone in this thread ]

6/19/2023 4:01:50 PM

Quote :

"This is purely anecdotal based on reddit and things like that but I think in the trans community it's expected you are honest and up front about your orientation as early as possible in a relationship. Makes sense even for self preservation, avoids future heartbreak and lessens risk of violent reaction down the road. I think someone on tww briefly dated a pre bottom surgery trans woman and she was open about it. That said the world is full of dishonest people of all orientations. It was a "confession" so who knows how real. And after a kiss so not as "early as possible", still pretty early though. See this post and the next page or two https://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=580984&page=333#16500108"

Hey, thanks for not being a dickhole, rwoody.

Can't have any discussion with this other guy without having anything you say twisted around into the most extreme viewpoint opposing his. It's a lot of fun and definitely a winning style. I never once expressed support for government restriction of gender-affirming care, so how did that come to be my policy in this discussion? He can call it ignorance, but the difference is I'm completely willing to admit when I don't understand something or when I don't know what's best, and that's at the root of many of my questions. I want to know why. Maybe it's "none of my business", but that just doesn't seem very satisfactory. I'm quite capable of being persuaded, but I always appreciate knowing why. Might be something to think about if these issues are likely to remain prominent in the zeitgeist, because I'm afraid we can't bludgeon all the dumb rednecks into submission by posting condescending takes on a message board.

I don't even know what the argument is about. TGL3, what's your degree in? Serious question. Not meant to attempt to undermine anything you say, regardless of answer. I'm just curious about the difference in framing I think we have.

6/19/2023 7:56:45 PM

never claimed to have a degree on the subject

I’ve told you in other threads that I have friends who are trans, and that I abhor bigotry of any kind

that coupled with the horrific right wing movement that is current going on, I have extremely little patience for the “just asking questions” crowd

it’s literally a matter of life and death for their community, and a cavalier attitude over what they’re currently going through just ain’t it

6/19/2023 8:40:21 PM

I wasn't asking about your degree to suggest any lack of validity to your opinions or lack of training or education to make assessments. Just curious whether it was a technical degree or something in humanities. My degree is in engineering, but that's more of an output of my interests and personality than an input to my opinions. I don't think it confers additional validity, and on some topics probably the opposite. However, I think it does correlate with how I tend to approach the unknown or unexperienced.

I get it, and yes, I recall what you've shared previously. I think it's probably best for me to no longer comment at all about on what you post on this topic, but it's unclear who your target audience is if not the persuadable. You react so quickly angrily and based on your own assumptions and attributions about someone else's agenda that it's unlikely any progress will be made. For my part, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I try to imagine myself being a parent of a kid with gender dysmorphia, and I honestly don't know how I would handle it. Hopefully with love in any case, but I feel like I would really have trouble changing the name and gender I use to refer to my child and would constantly second-guess anything I did. Better to never have to face it, perhaps. I have a pretty pessimistic view of humanity and our future anyway. Better not to add more resource drains to this planet. That's how I rationalize my own social dysfunction, anyway.

6/19/2023 9:43:01 PM

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/

Quote :

"Understanding the reasons some transgender people quit treatment is key to improving it, especially for the rising number of minors seeking to medically transition, experts say. But for many researchers, detransitioning and regret have long been untouchable subjects."

I agree with this article.

I think that because of those who are transphobic/ignorant using this as fuel against the trans community, it leads to a genuine discussion in the public sphere being missed out on. Scientific 'fields of study' in the mainstream are not immune to such biases.

Quote :

"In his continuing search for detransitioners, MacKinnon spent hours scrolling through TikTok and sifting through online forums where people shared their experiences and found comfort from each other. These forays opened his eyes to the online abuse detransitioners receive – not just the usual anti-transgender attacks, but members of the transgender community telling them to “shut up” and even sending death threats. “I can’t think of any other examples where you’re not allowed to speak about your own healthcare experiences if you didn’t have a good outcome,” MacKinnon told Reuters."

It makes sense. When I think of how much hate the community may have to face, and imagine myself as someone who is not enjoying the results of the treatments, it would feel like you're setting the community back in a way. And as a person who is successfully in the process, you may see these people as also setting your community back.

6/20/2023 9:32:56 AM

he reacts quickly and angrily to everything not because hes wrong but because hes dumb.

6/20/2023 10:10:09 AM

I think it’s obvious that nearly all of his ire, as always, is and has been aimed at me.

I don’t hate the transgender community. I never have. I have a few issues though, and I think I’ve made those clear.

I represent the worst in his mind, and that will never change. I myself could transition and I’d still be a bigot.

6/20/2023 10:33:45 AM

Do it! That's sure to show him.

6/20/2023 11:37:53 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna90272

Quote :

" Judge strikes down Arkansas ban on transition care for minors The federal court decision could have ripple effects across the country as an increasing number of states pass similar laws."

good news

6/20/2023 7:55:04 PM

[Edited on June 21, 2023 at 5:12 PM. Reason : Oops]

6/21/2023 5:11:23 PM

https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/a-year-of-hate-anti-drag-mobilization-efforts-targeting-lgbtq-people-in-the-us/

Quote :

"Anti-drag Mobilization Efforts Targeting LGBTQ+ People in the US"

what a shocker

6/22/2023 3:05:38 PM

Quote :

" And, while public debate about what is appropriate entertainment for children, and at what ages, is absolutely legitimate and deserves fair hearing, the identified tactics only serve to undermine that discussion, with chilling consequences for free expression, and create fertile ground for a potential uptick in violence."

I completely agree.

6/22/2023 3:16:25 PM

so you’ll stop advocating for the state to restrict drag shows?

6/22/2023 3:57:32 PM

As long as they're not explicit.

6/23/2023 8:49:59 AM

who makes that distinction?

6/23/2023 11:02:55 AM

Quote from a former soapboxer, who's gay wedding I attended: "Society passed the gay event horizon, what's beyond we cannot predict."

There is blowback on the left and right. Support for gay marriage has declined in left leaning democrats for the first time in 20 years. The stonewall riots to gay marriage took 50 years. Yet, you are expected to give kids experimental surgeries that cost a fortune or you are a bigot.

It is amazing that NC bathroom bill has completely transformed political discussion. NC is always the test bed for new political campaigns.

6/23/2023 4:24:28 PM

Quote :

"WHO IS GAY WEDDING"

6/23/2023 6:47:53 PM

Drag night at legends ^

6/23/2023 7:29:40 PM

your gay friend sounds about as awful and intolerable as you are, so not sure what that silly anecdote is to even supposed to prove

6/23/2023 7:36:02 PM

set em up

6/29/2023 1:36:05 PM