Quote :

"Also I doubt a coach would talk to another school when they're preparing for the Tournament so really it's a moot point at least until after the Tournament is over or Xavier gets knocked out."

you'd be surprised.

He'd likely be getting a pay raise coming to State. It'd be familiar for him as well. It would probably blow up in our faces because of Fowler, but I don't think it would unreasonable for him to actually want to come here.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:31 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 2:30:51 PM

Quote :

"THIS IS THE PROBLEM I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! You are accepting the mentality that we shouldn't expect to win. We should and we have every fucking right to expect to win with the amount of money being raked in by our athletics department and the tremendous FAN support (you and me!!!) we have for our programs. We were #18 in the nation in basketball attendance just last year with our shit performance, if you can believe it. It's not unheard of to expect to be great. See UNC, UCLA, Florida, Kansas, Kentucky, etc, etc, etc"

It's not that we're accepting mediocrity. It's not that we don't want to win. You're missing the point. We have all been State fans long enough to know that shit happens to us too much for us to expect perfection. It's silly really for anyone to expect perfection. Because we all know when that happens, we get let down. For me at least, if I don't expect greatness, I'm either pleasantly surprised or, not let down so much.

I think a lot of it also has to do that we are logical and rational and especially realistic in our expectations. Given all the circumstances of this basketball program in its current state, you can't actually expect greatness yet. Look at the factors: We have an inexperienced college coach in his 3rd year, but he has won a NC at THIS school. We have some decent (not All-American) but decent players on the roster who can be competitive in this conference in the future. We play in one of the TOUGHEST conferences in the country where no win will be easy.

If circumstances were different, I admit I would have higher expectations. For example:

If our current roster had ALL 4 and 5 star all-americans (like UNC) where our bench would be a top 25 team by themselves.
If our coach has been in college coaching and has earned the respect over multiple years.
If we played in a mediocre conference but the above circumstances were in place (i.e. Memphis)


Our school has the history, tradition, and potential to reach this point again. But we are going through a patch right now where we have to be patient and wait for that to come. Everyone that supports our school knows what we are capable of and where we ought to be.

Given the recruits coming in next year, if Sidney can keep Leslie committed, and if he can land a few more solid recruits (preferably 4 star) in Leslie’s class, by that time he will have a few more years of coaching experience under his belt and he should have us on the way to a better program. At that point I will say kudos to you, Coach Lowe, for taking on the most feared job in the country. And fuck you to everyone who called for Lowe’s head.

3/17/2009 2:31:06 PM

My reasoning for not pulling for Herb is similar to my reason for not pulling for App State football

On the surface it seems fine...oh yeah, go Herb, good luck! Go App State! Win another little guys title!

Then you hear the App State fans talk mad shit about how they're the best team in the Carolinas...despite losing to one of State's worst teams a few years ago, and despite that the Michigan game is the exception not the rule...their fans talk shit and talk shit and talk shit...then I say fuck App...well when all the UNC and Duke fans who love talking shit about State start saying Sendek this, Sendek that, I say fuck Sendek...I hope he fails...let UNC and Duke fans talk shit about how State is not a good basketball program this year, that I can deal with because its real...don't let them make a bunch of bullshit comparisons about Sendek and how he's doing in Tempe

3/17/2009 2:32:33 PM

Quote :

"99% of it is ncstatetke trolling the shit out of people."

eh, it was until they won a couple games in the Pac-10 tournament then a bunch of them came out of the closet.

Quote :

"I think he was a good coach, not a great coach, that probably hit his ceiling."

agreed

Quote :

"It wasn't quite yet time for him to go, but it wasn't cool to treat him like shit either."

I think alot of this "we treated him like shit" noise is overblow, he took a job at a school that actually gives a shit about basketball so when the team plays poorly fans are going to get upset. If he didn't want to deal with the minor amount of pressure that the fanbase, not the AD put on well into his tenure then he shouldn't have come here. A couple idiots calling for his head on the internet is not a good enough excuse to abandon the school that gave you a chance and your players.

3/17/2009 2:35:59 PM

Quote :

"My reasoning for not pulling for Herb is similar to my reason for not pulling for App State football On the surface it seems fine...oh yeah, go Herb, good luck! Go App State! Win another little guys title! Then you hear the App State fans talk mad shit about how they're the best team in the Carolinas...despite losing to one of State's worst teams a few years ago, and despite that the Michigan game is the exception not the rule...their fans talk shit and talk shit and talk shit...then I say fuck App...well when all the UNC and Duke fans who love talking shit about State start saying Sendek this, Sendek that, I say fuck Sendek...I hope he fails...let UNC and Duke fans talk shit about how State is not a good basketball program this year, that I can deal with because its real...don't let them make a bunch of bullshit comparisons about Sendek and how he's doing in Tempe"

Sounds like you're getting trolled in real life by fans from App, UNC, and Duke.

I don't give a fuck about ASU. Herb is a good guy, did his best, and I wish him well. Whether they win or lose, it doesn't affect my temperament one bit. I'll never wish he was back, I'll never wish he didn't leave. Herb losing in Tempe isn't helping State win in Raleigh. Wishing for him to fail is fucking sour grapes.

3/17/2009 2:36:19 PM

^^^ oh, you mean you like to hide from reality?

Quote :

"he took a job at a school that actually gives a shit about basketball so when the team plays poorly fans are going to get upset."

Well it seems that this does this not apply to Lowe.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:39 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 2:38:05 PM

Quote :

"I think alot of this "we treated him like shit" noise is overblow, he took a job at a school that actually gives a shit about basketball so when the team plays poorly fans are going to get upset. If he didn't want to deal with the minor amount of pressure that the fanbase, not the AD put on well into his tenure then he shouldn't have come here. A couple idiots calling for his head on the internet is not a good enough excuse to abandon the school that gave you a chance and your players."

Talking shit to his daughters, Fire Herb t-shirts, booing intros, etc. are pretty sorry examples of supporting your school. It wasn't the majority, but it was more than just a few fans. It made us look like shit to a lot of coaches out there. That shit did more to hurt or program than Herb or Sidney probably ever will. After all that, you've gotta have some big balls to want to coach at NC State.

3/17/2009 2:39:15 PM

^^so you think App has the best football program in the Carolinas...you sure are grounded in reality

3/17/2009 2:40:05 PM

Quote :

"Well it seems that this does this not apply to Lowe."

It took seven or eight years for fans to call for Herb's head. A lot of folks were ready to dump Sid after year two.

3/17/2009 2:41:24 PM

^^^ agree

^^ no my comment was regarding that crazy spill you had about Sendek


[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 2:41:35 PM

Face it guys, our shitty fanbase ran off Amato and now Florida State is having more success in football than NC State

don't hide from reality

3/17/2009 2:43:05 PM

Amato isn't the head coach at Florida State

We didn't run him off, he was fired

He was a terrible fucking coach

3/17/2009 2:44:43 PM

Quote :

"you'd be surprised. He'd likely be getting a pay raise coming to State. It'd be familiar for him as well. It would probably blow up in our faces because of Fowler, but I don't think it would unreasonable for him to actually want to come here."

I don't think it would be unreasonable either, but I also can understand why he wouldn't want to take this job as well. And we would definitely have to give him a significant raise, and probably pay part or all of his buyout at Xavier.

Quote :

"Herb losing in Tempe isn't helping State win in Raleigh. Wishing for him to fail is fucking sour grapes."

personally I want him to lose in Tempe because I hate ASU, it has nothing to do with sour grapes

Quote :

"Talking shit to his daughters, Fire Herb t-shirts, booing intros, etc. are pretty sorry examples of supporting your school."

I'm skeptical that this "talking shit to his daughters" stuff even happened, the other stuff is trivial and I doubt any other coaches still remember or care

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 2:48:33 PM

Quote :

"don't hide from reality"

really? You think we ran off Amato and he personally made FSU better than us as a Linebacker's coach? And you are trying to talk to me about a reality? Wow, self pwnt.

3/17/2009 2:51:47 PM

(you should check your sarcasm-dar)

3/17/2009 2:52:28 PM

oh sarcasm, that's what people use when they have been thoroughly defeated in a thread.

3/17/2009 2:53:15 PM

Quote :

"We didn't run him off, he was fired"

He was run off a shit load more than Herb was

Amato was literally run off by the athletic department

Herb QUIT

^lol...go suck herb's dick and talk some more shit about how much lowe sucks...thats all you do anyway

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 2:58:16 PM

^ No I'm trying to move the conversation forward about who can replace Lowe. I said a name in Sean Miller and haven't gotten any real opposition thus far.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:00 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 3:00:33 PM

gotta love the OP

Quote :

"This has to be done to be fair to Herb. As critical as we all were of that piece of shit, anytime a coach butchers a game that badly he deserves a thread. He's got a long way to go before he gets a free pass for mailing in games like that. Two fucking NIT wins aren't good enough this season."

3/17/2009 3:00:45 PM

^ wow our expectations have really taken a blow these past couple years.

3/17/2009 3:01:53 PM

Quote :

"I'm trying to move the conversation forward about who can replace Lowe"

Lets go ahead and move the conversation forward to who can replace our next replacement coach since people will want him gone after a year or two since they're retards

3/17/2009 3:02:18 PM

^ yeah if Sean Miller were to come here and have 3 years and put together the worst ACC team, you bet your shiny ass I would want him gone.

3/17/2009 3:04:23 PM

We were the worst ACC team this year? Wow we were worse than Georgia Tech and Virginia this year, despite sweeping them? You learn something new everyday.

Lets go ahead and get rid of Tom O'Brien. Dude can't even win a fucking bowl game! What a joke!

3/17/2009 3:05:57 PM

you know damn well what I meant, over his entire 3 year tenure, but finishing 10th in the league ain't nothing to brag about.

so my point still stands:

Quote :

"yeah if Sean Miller were to come here and have 3 years and put together the worst ACC team, you bet your shiny ass I would want him gone."

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:08 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 3:07:53 PM

So you would want Sean Miller gone because he couldn't get it done in 3 years and that's his limit?

Or because he is a proven college coach and ought to do better?

3/17/2009 3:12:51 PM

Quote :

"I said a name in Sean Miller and haven't gotten any real opposition thus far."

don't act like you came up with Sean Miller as a possible replacement, I said something about him like 3 months ago, and Caulton Tudor of the N&O had his name on a list of possible replacements like 2 months ago...it's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination

3/17/2009 3:13:10 PM

OhBoyeee

you should be our new coach!!!

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 3:15:53 PM

^^ then shut the fuck up that there aren't better qualified candidates out there. Somebody asked ME personally who we could get to replace him like their aren't any other coaches in the world better qualified than Lowe.

Quote :

"So you would want Sean Miller gone because he couldn't get it done in 3 years and that's his limit?"

I clearly stated I would want him gone if he were to have 3 years and he managed to coach our team into the worst team in the league over those 3 years.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:17 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 3:16:01 PM

How are we the worst team in the league?

3/17/2009 3:17:37 PM

name one team who was overall worse than us in the ACC over the last 3 years

3/17/2009 3:19:03 PM

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/feature/college-basketball-history-2009?src=digg

3/17/2009 3:20:46 PM

as far as record goes, you're right about the last three years. but many of those issues were not coaching related. most of them were because of severe shortcomings in our lineup. (for instance no real pg for most of those three seasons).

3/17/2009 3:21:55 PM

I can't wait to hear the new excuses some of you guys will come up with next year.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:23 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 3:23:17 PM

Quote :

"oh sarcasm, that's what people use when they have been thoroughly defeated in a thread."

Yes, OhBoyeee has thoroughly defeated everyone in this thread. We really should just stop arguing with him, lest he defeat us again. Besides, even though he has defeated us, Lowe is still going to be our coach next year, so there really is no point. (of course, he might take his anonymous trolling out to the real world and really change some minds and sean miller will be our coach next year! )

3/17/2009 3:23:47 PM

my whole point is that getting rid of a guy after three years (unless the situation is considerably worse than ours is right now) would be a net detriment in most cases. if after two more years we're hanging around the bottom third of the acc and with no postseason play, then yeah, get rid of him. he had time to succeed and he did not. as of now, it seems incredibly stupid to ditch him.

3/17/2009 3:25:06 PM

Quote :

"http://www.esquire.com/the-side/feature/college-basketball-history-2009?src=digg"

That article (at least our inclusion) is pretty short-sighted.

Everyone knows the DT violations was just petty BS drummed up by Dean Smith.

3/17/2009 3:25:49 PM

Yeah, we've had far dirtier teams than '73

3/17/2009 3:27:27 PM

Quote :

"my whole point is that getting rid of a guy after three years (unless the situation is considerably worse than ours is right now) would be a net detriment in most cases"

That's most people's point who are against firing Lowe now. And OhBoyeee knows this, but he has too much fun saying that if you think Lowe shouldn't be fired now, it means that you adore Lowe and think he's the best coach in the whole world. So it's best to just ignore the douche.

3/17/2009 3:27:37 PM

if OhBoyeee was our coach, we would only lose like 2 games a year

we would beat UCLAs 7 in a row record as well

3/17/2009 3:29:24 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, we've had far dirtier teams than '73"

As have most major D1 programs.

3/17/2009 3:37:46 PM

Quote :

"as of now, it seems incredibly stupid to ditch him."

right, but I think it couldn't hurt for fowler to put out some feelers with some "home-run" coaches and if there is strong interest then get the better coach in as soon as possible, losing the 09 recruits be damned. If not then next year he needs to finish in the top half of the ACC and have .500 record or better in the ACC or he gets shown the door.

3/17/2009 3:37:51 PM

Quote :

"right"

WHOA

Are you backing down from your vehement FIRE SID campaign?

Quote :

"next year he needs to finish in the top half of the ACC and have .500 record or better in the ACC or he gets shown the door."

We likely will not finish 8-8 or better

Sid will likely not be fired because of that

Quote :

"As have most major D1 programs"

No shit

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2009 3:39:33 PM

Quote :

"top half of the ACC and have .500 record or better in the ACC"

wat

3/17/2009 3:40:18 PM

Quote :

"it couldn't hurt for fowler to put out some feelers with some "home-run" coaches"

remember this is Fowler we're talking about, I don't trust him to take out the trash properly...maybe if we were using a consultant (Chuck Neinas worked out pretty well for Football) but that's the only way I would be OK with Fowler doing any kind of a coaching search

3/17/2009 3:41:25 PM

do you not understand? What's so hard to understand or unrealistic in a coaches 4th year about that?

3/17/2009 3:41:34 PM

There's nothing unrealistic about it. There's also no way we finish at .500 or better with what he have for next year.

3/17/2009 3:44:23 PM

^^^ true enough, didn't Fowler almost starve to death or something during his last coaching search? He is really unqualified to be managing athletics.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 3:50 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 3:50:03 PM

Quote :

"It wasn't delusional NC State fans predicting a top-half finish for us... it was experts, media, fans, EVERYBODY I understand you're supportive of Lowe and all but you need to chill the fuck out on defending everything - we did not meet expectations last year, just admit it. Is it worth firing him over? Of course not, but stop acting like he's done a good job."

I never said it was our doing. Everyone was stupid to predict that we were supposed to be so good. We had the same team as the year before pretty much. Add a solid post player and take away the only thing on the team that resembled a PG. Hickson was a luxury that made everyone think we were going to be good, coupled by the finish that a player no-longer on the team lead us.

Looking back we should have been picked as a middle of the road team (not the 2nd they gave us) and we underachieved mostly because the guy we thought would be our PG tore his ACL.

Quote :

"There's nothing unrealistic about it. There's also no way we finish at .500 or better with what he have for next year."

Assuming the players work and progress, our season will likely be determined first by whether or not BC stays, and secondly who we land as a big man. If we land the Aussie and he is ready to play 10-15 minutes at the 5 to spell Tracy and BC stays to play the 4 (and works his butt off), we'll be fine. If any of that goes wrong, it could kill the season

3/17/2009 3:51:47 PM

" And coaching the Wolfpack, is Slick Rick"

3/17/2009 3:54:39 PM

stop it vonjordan you making me blush

3/17/2009 3:57:23 PM