A hammer is just as dangerous as a gun just like A tank is just as dangerous as a nuclear weapon.

12/18/2012 11:25:09 PM

I do not appreciate your mockery or sarcasm. Way to be serious about this.

[Edited on December 18, 2012 at 11:28 PM. Reason : .]

12/18/2012 11:27:52 PM

Can we simply weigh the advantages of guns next to the disadvantages of guns?

advantages of guns in society
-you can kill animals for fun
-you can protect your pets from animals
-people can't steal your stuff
-people can't trespass on your property


disadvantages of guns in society
-people are randomly murdered in the street
-mass shootings in public places
-mass shootings in the work place
-mass shootings in schools
-thousands of accidental firearm deaths
-unnecessary escalation of violence during domestic disputes
-police murder innocent people
-neighborhood watch murder innocent people
-kids die for mischief
-people go insane and grab their guns
-easy suicide
-shootouts with police
-police deaths

Would it be worth it to lose these advantages in order to significantly reduce these disadvantages?

12/18/2012 11:37:25 PM

If E Man made his advanteges list like he did his disadvantages list:

-you can kill deer for fun
-you can kill deer for food
-you can kill deer that are eating your flowers
- you can kill possums for fun

Etc

12/18/2012 11:50:06 PM

ignore the troll

12/18/2012 11:51:21 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[Edited on December 18, 2012 at 11:53 PM. Reason : Rfdvvg]

12/18/2012 11:52:53 PM

Feel free to add to either list. I didn't add things that you could do as effectively without a gun such as obtain food.

^bombs takes a higher degree of education, longer thought processes to execute and more opportunities to be caught or get cold feet during the execution.

[Edited on December 18, 2012 at 11:54 PM. Reason : pulling a trigger requires no education and a second of thought.]

12/18/2012 11:53:08 PM

Quote :

"You don't need to. I'm just looking for an answer. One with a monetary figure would be simple enough."

Well they are different questions. Life insurance is to pay for any debts or troubles I might leave behind, not a price tag on my life, and it's 2 years salary. I can't put an actual price on my life because money has no meaning if I'm dead, and my living has a very inelastic demand for me, so it would be all the money I have and could get.

Quote :

"A hammer is as dangerous as a firearm."

Then why are soldiers and police not equipped with hammers? Are they just subject to the same gun demonization that I am that they are willing to spend 100x more money on a weapon that is just as dangerous as a $3 hammer?

Also in the more relevant context of accidents, why are there far more fatal accidents from gunshots than there are from hammers, when hammers are just as dangerous and far more fatal?

I could really keep going, but I think it is obvious that a gun is far more dangerous. You can obviously kill someone with both, but its way easier with a gun, thus making it more dangerous.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 12:14 AM. Reason : ]

12/19/2012 12:11:59 AM

Honestly trying to argue that a hammer is as dangerous as a gun? This thread has completely jumped the shark.

12/19/2012 12:58:48 AM

^agreed

12/19/2012 1:00:10 AM

Quote :

"While not against gun control discussions, the energy and time spent on it only acts as a negative diversion from the real issues. We've taken God, personal responsibility, and respect for life out of our society and then wonder why these things happen, We've replaced those with faith in government and leaders like Comrade Obama. Until we are prepared to reduce the power of government and increase the role of family no gun law will make a difference."

-per comment in http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/feinstein_12-17.html

12/19/2012 1:42:31 AM

The answer is more guns.

This boy didn't get the smack down because people are scared if they hit their kids they're going to jail. How about a little smack here and there to learn some respect. Sure he was screwed up in the head..but he didn't kill his dad or brother just his mom. Her fault she's dead, she should have had the courage from her God to do the right thing. So many parents are worried about being friends to their children, and look where that got us, anyone ever read about the 70's? bunch of weak little boys with our wieners cut off asking if we could pee sitting down now. Don't pull some Hillary crap and say you never heard of Jimmy Carter.

12/19/2012 2:56:53 AM

I want the second amendment to guarantee me the right to bear drones.

I need it to hunt and to protect my family.

12/19/2012 3:12:54 AM

That's dumb, how would the bears fly their drones?

12/19/2012 8:03:01 AM

and now the end of serious discussion of gun control...

I would like a bear shaped drone, that would protect my house very well...

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 8:12 AM. Reason : they would be hard to control.]

12/19/2012 8:12:16 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kslv7l75jQ

12/19/2012 9:26:04 AM

Quote :

""If we're going to have a conversation, then let's have a comprehensive conversation," said one industry source. "If we're going to talk about the Second Amendment, then let's also talk about the First Amendment, and Hollywood, and the video games that teach young kids how to shoot heads."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/18/nra-to-push-back-soon-sources-say/#ixzz2FVdAQ07d

All the face-palms in the world.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 9:47 AM. Reason : Ideology is fucking stupid]

12/19/2012 9:45:55 AM

Wee! It's the video games again!

12/19/2012 9:55:15 AM

I know it's an isolated incident, but has anybody brought up the Fort Hood shooting?

Some people claim that the only way to avoid massacres like these is for the law-abiding citizens to have guns... But yet, the Fort Hood shooter was surrounded by guns and military personnel who were trained to use them. And he still killed 13 people.

12/19/2012 9:56:13 AM

He wasn't really surrounded by guns, you can't really walk around with a gun on post

12/19/2012 10:12:15 AM

Yeah, I kinda figured that. Of course I don't know the details, but it does seem crazy that he was able to kill that many people while on post though.

12/19/2012 10:13:52 AM

^^^ but remember they are not allowed to have guns on base as will be pointed out and around and around we go with gun free zones. And more statistics will be brought out and those statistics will be questions with other statistics.. i guess i need to quit reading about the gun debate.

I wish the debate did not always come back to just certain situations that have already happened that can be picked apart for the details. And there was just one agreed upon statistic that was the goal of reducing with respect to guns.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason : .]

12/19/2012 10:14:46 AM

I haven't read that article, but it's disingenuous to think that video games, movies, and music don't have impacts on young minds and play some role(s) in the activities, including illegal activities, of young people (and some older people). I'm not saying that the video games did it, I'm just saying you can't fully discount the entire environment around these kids. This event didn't occur in a vacuum.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM. Reason : .]

12/19/2012 10:28:19 AM

I would bet Fox News has a bigger role than video games in this situation.

12/19/2012 10:35:41 AM

That's an asinine statement.

12/19/2012 10:37:27 AM

If you want to play that game, which is ridiculous, then don't get mad when people want to blame guns. Very similar arguments.

Reality is mentally stable people simply don't let either influence them toward mass killings.

^ how? No more than the Hollywood angle. 24/7 news gets these killers ridiculous airtime.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason : D]

12/19/2012 10:41:04 AM

The media definitely has a bigger role, they contribute to the paranoia and incorrect belief that things are more dangerous now than in the past which leads people to want guns and become preppers. We have so many guns because people are afraid, people are afraid because of the news.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason : to clarify, its not all on the media. but media influence > video games influence]

12/19/2012 10:41:36 AM

and Foxnews, especially, thrives on fear and nationalism.

12/19/2012 10:45:43 AM

Is it?

What causes a wealthy white American male to flip out? This is literally the best possible situation any human could be born into.

If he's in a conservative family whose mother appeared to think an economic apocalypse was imminent, where would she get this from other than right wing media?

Combine the mothers right wing nut job paranoia fed by things like Fox News with an autistic kid, and you create an environment for him to feel desperate and angry and eventually snap.

There are several people here who have talked about family members that get irrationally angry when watching Fox News. This is the goal of what people like Oreilly, Limbaugh, Scarborough, etc want.

How exactly is playing call of duty, that also has the lesson of being honorable, that penalizes you for friendly fire, more responsible than the environment he grew up in, which seems to have been characterized buy gun worship and conservative paranoia?

12/19/2012 10:48:30 AM

I didn't say that the media doesn't have an impact. Are kids now watching 24/7 news outlets more than playing video games now? I think video games have a bigger impact on kids than the media. IN the end the person is to blame, not media, not video games, etc. Those are just contributing factors.

What causes a wealthy white American male to flip out is often mental illness.

^that's just absurd. are you really ignoring the entire make-up of these video games to make a point? not every gun owner watches shit news. not every gun owner is paranoid. For you to pretend to know what this kid went through is asinine. And that post is just full of a bunch of unsupported assumptions.

Quote :

"24/7 news gets these killers ridiculous airtime."

I'm sure a dead retarded kid is loving all of his airtime.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

12/19/2012 10:51:22 AM

I know your intuitive enough to understand my point. The name Adam Lanza will not be forgotten.

12/19/2012 10:57:35 AM

^^ the next retarded kid that will shoot up a school is loving the airtime.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

12/19/2012 10:58:21 AM

Maybe so. And possibly being trained by video games. Being desensitized by movies, media, and video games.

I don't know why we're still on this. All of these have impacts on people, and depending on the circumstance, some more than others. But they're not to blame.

12/19/2012 11:00:39 AM

Quote :

"Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it. The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory." In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy."

-Roger Ebert

12/19/2012 11:01:00 AM

your point? I think we've all said the media has an impact.

12/19/2012 11:03:23 AM

Some of the posts here are perfect examples of the stigmatization of mental illness that needs to change if we want to encourage people to admit that they have a problem and then seek help for it.

12/19/2012 11:03:30 AM

12/19/2012 11:05:38 AM

If I am wrong, I am more than willing to consider reasons why, but I don't see how my being on a high horse is relevant.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM. Reason : ]

12/19/2012 11:12:00 AM

Quote :

"And possibly being trained by video games"

weird I just got through beating "Shooting up a class full of 1st graders" simulator last night.

12/19/2012 11:26:32 AM

I'm a surgeon because of the Wii hospital game

12/19/2012 11:40:28 AM

Fox News is claiming that Adam Lanza snapped because he learned of his mothers plans to have him committed to a mental hospital

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-may-have-caused-connecticut-madman-to-snap/

12/19/2012 12:06:35 PM

Wow fox news. Hearsay is news now, is it?

12/19/2012 12:34:50 PM

^ that and don't forget the FW:FW:FW:FW: emails are also "interesting questions" to raise and should be reported on constantly.

12/19/2012 12:43:36 PM

How many news agencies reported the wrong name and stared spamming every Facebook/linkedIn account with a similar name? There is still barely any real news about the entire thing.

12/19/2012 1:30:29 PM

Bullet said I was a jerk for calling the media's coverage of this, and those who consume it, disgusting.

12/19/2012 1:43:25 PM

Quote :

"Wow fox news. Hearsay is news now, is it?"

Always has been. In these modern fast times, it's better for your news agency to be first than it is to be right. I don't know if you were following this story as it broke, but initially the news media was reporting that the kids mother worked for the school and that he was targeting her class and students specifically. I think it was of the other news agencies even wound up doing an on air "We were so wrong" apology about it.

12/19/2012 1:50:41 PM

Quote :

"Bullet said I was a jerk for calling the media's coverage of this, and those who consume it, disgusting"

haha, no i didn't. i actually agree with that sentiment. i find the media's coverage disgusting too, and for that reason, i haven't watched anything about this on tv, nor read any of the MSM's articles on it. i called you a jerk for basically calling me a despicable human being. and for thinking it's your right to steal beers from other people's coolers. and for being an arrogant jerk.


[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM. Reason : ]

12/19/2012 2:13:00 PM

oh yeah, i forgot you were above it and were just watching the coverage for the facts

12/19/2012 2:26:59 PM

You don't believe that there is any difference between drama whores who are glued to Nancy Grace (to use your example from the other thread) and people who don't watch the sensationalized television coverage but do have a genuine interest in trying to wrap their heads around how and why something like this could happen?

12/19/2012 2:36:54 PM

Quote :

"People say spankings damage children, yet the last 20 years of 'friend' parenting has only led to shitty kids."

Pure bullshit. The kids that do this horrific shit typically have absentee or abusive/authoritarian parents.

12/19/2012 2:48:36 PM