Dude, it was a SOLID 3 star movie. No need to get upset. Calm down.

1/19/2016 10:13:25 PM

Frosh is kinda proving my point about fanboys, lol.

Dude is over here waxing poetically about the differences between Luke and Rey and how it's just a coincidence and not lazy writing that both are kids from a desert planet, strong in the Force, whose parents are nowhere to be found. And he might have a point, except that Annakin, too, is from a desert planet, strong in the Force, and his parents are nowhere to be found. You can get away with it once, but not twice.

And I really appreciate you regurgitating the plot in an attempt to show its relatively internally consistent nature. Unfortunately, you missed that last little part of my sentence that you quoted, namely the part where I said "coherent plot element which necessitated [the inclusion of Han, Leia, Luke, etc]." Sure, it's plausible that Leia becomes a high ranking figure in the resistance, but there's nothing in this film which requires it. Kylo doesn't need to be the child of anyone in particular, much less Han and Leia, and there is very little added to the plot of the film by it, other than the opportunity to bring back Han and Leia. And that opportunity is my point: it's a naked cash grab, designed to bring in all the fanboys, many of whom probably nutted at the thought of seeing Leia again, thinking "oh boy, I hope we get to see her in that bikini again!" as they put on their Yoda ears and jerked it vigorously, in rhythm, to John Williams' classical pop scores. The inclusion of those characters was an unnecessary, sentimental homage to the past which served only as a distraction to the overall story by taking up so much screen time.

And, yes, Rey absolutely was starstruck. It was sickening, and I imagine the exact same response that all the fanboys in the audience, lotion in hand, had as Han comes on the screen the first time. The "it's all true" scene was particularly difficult to watch. BB8 is similarly in awe at seeing R2D2; a freaking robot is enamored at being in the presence of another robot. And can we talk about the absurdity that Han is this big, famous, important hero, and not a single person in the whole galaxy seems to know what his ship looks like, not even the people who apparently worship the mere mention of his name?

Seriously, you're over here creaming your pants over atmospheric dogfights? Really? You've got a society that's capable of interstellar travel and building planet-sized spacecraft, but atmospheric warfare is something amazing and incredible? I'll give you that the internal struggle of a villain with the draw of being good was interesting; it's something I noticed and wished they had delved into more, and maybe if they hadn't spent so much time on a pointless jizzfest over Leia, Han, C3PO, and R2D2, they could have put that in THIS movie. Instead, they'll use it as filler in the next in between jizzing over Luke, I'm sure.

I'm not saying this movie is a complete disaster or anything. It's not a complete train wreck like the 2015-2016 NC State men's basketball team. I'm saying the writers' insistence on using old characters, who add little to nothing to the story other than a sentimental draw to people who are going to see the movie anyway, multiple times no matter what, serves to diminish the end product, a product that you rightly show has some new and intriguing ideas to explore. Instead, the writers stuck with old tropes from the series, unimaginatively reimplementing the same plot lines, with sometimes strikingly embarrassing similarities (holographic big bad guy commanding another bad guy in a black mask with an electronically modified voice who commands a sniveling weasel of a guy who commands a planet-sized spaceship capable of destroying whole planets with a giant beam weapon that you can blow up by hitting this one otherwise seemingly unimportant heat-management-related part of it as they search across a desert planet for a droid containing a vital message which needs to be delivered to a small, ragtag resistance force which instead comes into the possession of a random kid in the desert with as-of-yet-unknown mystical powers whose parents are nowhere to be found and whose village/home eventually gets shot up and is eventually taken to other worlds by a mentor-like figure, whaaaat?). Sometimes you can get away with rehashing an old story while adding new subtleties to it. Shakespeare obviously borrowed from Pyramid and Thisbe when he wrote Romeo and Juliet; but he didn't also write Pyramid and Thisbe, either.

1/20/2016 12:10:22 AM

Quote :

"Sure, it's plausible that Leia becomes a high ranking figure in the resistance, but there's nothing in this film which requires it."

Wait, "plausible?"

She's the adopted daughter of one of the founders of the Rebel Alliance. She shepherded the plans for the destruction of the Death Star at Yavin. She was one of the leaders of the Alliance for its entire existence, and was a major component in the operation to destroy the Death Star at Endor.

How in the world would it be plausible for her NOT to be a leader in the Resistance?

Quote :

"And can we talk about the absurdity that Han is this big, famous, important hero, and not a single person in the whole galaxy seems to know what his ship looks like, not even the people who apparently worship the mere mention of his name?"

YT-1300 freighters are very common. It's not surprising that someone who regarded Solo & co. as legendary figures wouldn't picture the Millennium Falcon as a rickety YT-1300.

Quote :

"Shakespeare obviously borrowed from Pyramid and Thisbe when he wrote Romeo and Juliet; but he didn't also write Pyramid and Thisbe, either."

Pyramus, not Pyramid. Regardless, JJ Abrams didn't write A New Hope, so to suggest he's repeating himself doesn't make any sense.

Yes, this film has some fan service and is probably more expository than it needs to be. It's also FUN. And if you think there's not stuff baked in to The Force Awakens for Rian Johnson to play with over the next two films, you're crazy. That dude can write his ass off, and I'm stoked.

1/20/2016 3:50:42 AM

I didn't read anything that vinylbandit didn't quote, and I read that shit because that dude is a thinking and feeling creature who can drink in a work instead of letting it bounce off his thick head. I said my piece. You wrong for days, aaronburro.

1/20/2016 6:27:17 AM

^^^ Boy if you don't like this movie for being too similar to a previous installment, you must really hate Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

1/20/2016 7:39:43 AM

How dare this reboot of a somewhat disgraced franchise (thanks to it's creator) take its audience back and remind them about everything they loved in the original installments, and give an appreciative nod to all the fanboys that kept this series alive for decades.

Did the movie mirror a lot of key elements in the original trilogy (specifically A New Hope)? Sure, but I don't know why that's a bad thing. If you wanted to (re)introduce your fanbase to the series I couldn't think of a better way than to give them a little of what they loved in the first place. There are now two more movies that can go off and explore their own narrative now that the groundwork has been laid in a familiar and touching manner.

1/20/2016 8:09:32 AM

^ LOL, give them "a little" ???? Holy shit man, it was the entire movie, not a short cameo appearance, but the entire fucking plot. Oh, and hilarious you trying to take some sort of moral high ground about giving appreciation to the fans who kept the series alive. Good god man. Just stop.

1/20/2016 10:07:27 AM

>giving a shit about this

1/20/2016 10:15:38 AM

hey look the ol' "I'm too smart for this movie" schtick.

we have never seen that before.

1/20/2016 10:17:06 AM

^ I don't think you have to be that smart to see the obvious laziness in the script.

1/20/2016 10:39:12 AM

Isn't there that post modern book where the dude just literally re-wrote someone else's book word for word. Maybe you're not smart enough for this edgy film

1/20/2016 10:44:41 AM

^ Just blew my mind bro

But still a shit movie. Hope they get away from the past and write the next script with some imagination.

[Edited on January 20, 2016 at 10:46 AM. Reason : .]

1/20/2016 10:45:51 AM

I read this plot in finnegans wake

1/20/2016 11:13:33 AM

Making movies is hard, if it wasn't there wouldn't be so many shitty ones. Copying the plot from a successful movie for a sequel 30 years later doesn't guarantee anything. Still need good performances from the actors, good writing, well directed action and cinematography, special effects, etc.... TFA had all those and more. Who cares if the main story beats followed those of ANH, it's still a great and highly entertaining film.

1/20/2016 3:56:57 PM

Furthermore, -1 point for bringing up the plot of episodes 1- 3 at all. Here's a secret: there wasn't a plot.

1/20/2016 4:24:40 PM

im p sure it was about a young boy who had to become the king of podracing to end trade embargos. then he fell in love and jumped in a volcano. the end.

1/20/2016 5:23:01 PM

Before I get into this, let me just say that the movie was great because it was well-made, and visually appealing with great acting. My problems are all with the choice of plot and align with that initial aaronburro post

A new hope (and the entire original trilogy) is timeless. It didn't need to be "rebooted", it needed to be continued. Star wars stood the test of time because it was original and the stories were unique. If you're just going to "reboot it" then all you do is validate the people who said "leave it alone and never make more".

Even if you ignore that, this movie needed to have a plot that went on from episdoe 6 but instead we actually got episode 8 so just so they could make it like "a new hope". I'm not saying 30 years couldn't have passed, but nothing eventful should have taken place that we will never be able to see happen on film.

They could have easily made this movie about Luke's struggle to restore the jedi order, the turn of Kylo Ren, split of Leia/Han (hell you could even have had Ren kill his father in order to begin his darkshift), and ended with the exile of Luke. Rey and Finn could have been the most powerful padowans, Finn captured by Ren and Rey hidden/wiped by Luke before his exit. No one would have any idea where Finn is, just that Ren hid him somehwere to use once Luke is destroyed. That would have been a hell of a lot better movie and you could have let a lot of the same things happen without being so predictable. I understand that sounds a lot like episode 3 but a new hope should have been off limits.

I think we can all agree that the death star aspect of the plot was completely unacceptable on so many levels.

They really dropped the ball with Ren. On one hand, they don't introduce him as more than an evil vader wannabe, but on the other hand they want us to sympathize with the good in him because of his parents. That could have been pulled off if we had a reference point of Kylo Ren before he turned to the darkside.

[Edited on January 20, 2016 at 8:13 PM. Reason : piss poor writing, beautiful cash grab]

1/20/2016 8:07:22 PM

A strong female lead going to rescue a leading male from captivity in this series? Hmmm, i don't think they've done that before. It's worth a shot.

[Edited on January 20, 2016 at 8:46 PM. Reason : carbon freeze mfer]

1/20/2016 8:46:35 PM

You have to have 30 years pass if you're using the original cast.

So you have to explain why Luke is just now developing a Jedi temple. It needs to be 'just developed' in order to fail so easily.

If you do that, you don't really have anything interesting in the previous 30 years that is meaningful to Luke in the new movie. So the past 30 years has been really good for everyone, yaay.

It is much more interesting for Luke to have failed already. It leaps you forward to him already having discovered need to know information about the original Jedi order and the force in order to imbue the new force character with this understanding. You do not need to follow Luke and have him figure everything out in 1 movie. (Having said that, a movie following only Luke as he searches the galaxy sounds really fun. But very hard to make entertaining vs other movies that follow multiple story threads.)

Yes its lame they had another planet killer thing. It makes sense in the context of what the first order is. A North Korea/Iran analogue. Without the planet killer the first order presents no real danger to the galaxy. Unless you completely redo the script entirely, this tends to be what you need.

Its parallels were partly a business decision in my eyes. They had to have it start out right in order to ensure their investment had returns. It lessens the pressure on the following movies. So I fully expect there will not be weapon killers in 8 or 9. I mean, if the business end doesn't do very well, you get crappier movies for the next decade.

Its not perfect, but ill take it.

1/21/2016 9:02:42 AM

I've been seeing some ridiculous fan theories online and I am just sick of it. I don't think the writers even know who Rey is yet so everyone should calm the hell down.

Quote :

"They really dropped the ball with Ren. On one hand, they don't introduce him as more than an evil vader wannabe, but on the other hand they want us to sympathize with the good in him because of his parents. That could have been pulled off if we had a reference point of Kylo Ren before he turned to the darkside. "

They pulled it off even better when we didn't care about Vader's good side until the third movie. The it pulled all the feels. Showing him as a kid and trainee made him LESS relateable in my opinion (maybe because they just did it so poorly).

1/28/2016 6:29:41 PM

Quote :

"I don't think the writers even know who Rey is yet so everyone should calm the hell down."

This is the dumbest thing yet in this thread.

You think they started the final trilogy of the biggest movie franchise of all time without knowing the full story arc of the main character?

1/28/2016 8:32:50 PM

I was curious about that though, how much leverage each director has for the character arcs and overall story.

1/28/2016 9:53:26 PM

There's no doubt it's an ongoing process, especially with one of the most interesting narrative filmmakers in the business scripting Episodes VIII and IX and directing VIII. With that said, it would make zero sense for the general story of the trilogy to not be laid out. On top of the possibility of continuity missteps, it'd also leave a heap of missed opportunities to bake foreshadowing into Episode VII. With this much on the line, they know what they're doing.

1/29/2016 12:06:29 AM

JJ Abrams said publicly he left things unresolved and in the dark so that the next crew could take it in whatever direction they choose. I'm sure there was a narrowed down list of options but while XII was filming I honestly believe they hadn't settled on an answer yet. The next crew hopefully knows by now and what I meant to say is I don't think Abrams' crew knew where it was going.

[Edited on January 29, 2016 at 12:23 AM. Reason : -]

1/29/2016 12:22:40 AM

He also said Cumberbatch wasn't gonna be Khan, man.

1/29/2016 6:53:49 AM

Pretty sure JJ has specifically said they know who Rey's parents are. Hes given direction to Rian Johnson for what episode 8 can or cant do based of a broad outline. There is a collaboration between all 3 directors. They all know where this is going. The details, settings, action sequences, can all be messed with. You can make movies very different with very few major things being the same.

[Edited on January 29, 2016 at 9:15 AM. Reason : fsd]

1/29/2016 9:14:51 AM

I'd really like to see more backstory to The First Order. Like, how did they come into possession of all of the Empire's war machines, and how are they so well funded to turn a planet into big gun?

I'm not trying to poke holes in the plot or anything, I've seen it almost as many times as Froshkiller, I just find it curious that an organization with the materiel to turn a planet into a weapon is led by an emo teenager, a guy named Hux, and a chrome stormtrooper taken out by a punch.

3/27/2016 9:40:53 AM

I just assumed they inherited all the resources of the Empire.

3/27/2016 7:09:18 PM

Aren't they just what's left of the Empire after Return of the Jedi? The Rebel Alliance took out the Death Star and the Emperor/Vader are dead, but I'd assume there are still plenty of star destroyers, admirals/generals, etc. spread throughout the galaxy.

3/28/2016 5:12:50 PM

That sounds right.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order

Quote :

"Rise of the First Order With the Empire limited in its ability to wage war and reduced to a mere fragment of its former glory, Imperial warships began jumping into the Unknown Regions in an effort to escape the prying eyes of the New Republic. There, distanced from the galaxy at large and facing a vast and unexplored frontier, the First Order would eventually be formed from the remnants of the Old Empire, being inspired by the principles of the fallen government and led by many of its former officers.[3]"

3/28/2016 5:19:05 PM

damn nerds

3/29/2016 2:43:28 PM

I didn't have any expectations, having avoided the thread and movie theaters until a good BRRip was available, but I enjoyed it a lot. I'd much rather have a rehash of the good movies than the utter pile of shit that was the prequels where the main storylines were about the fucking Senate and trade embargos and other stupidity.

3/29/2016 4:06:44 PM

Is there a new republic? There didn't seem to be any sense of a galactic government.

3/29/2016 4:11:07 PM

i thought that was the first thing they blew up with the planet

3/29/2016 6:02:51 PM

From what I understood, the new government (Republic) was set up by the rebel alliance after the Empire was defeated. Remnants of the Empire went into hiding, regrouped, and formed the First Order. They hadn't been in outright war with the Republic but seen as more like a militant faction. Leia & co. were part of a behind the scenes military group (funded by the Republic) meant to battle the First Order without an all out declaration of war. Then the First Order blew up the Republic.

3/30/2016 10:30:30 AM

Jesus, it's not that hard to suss out what happened in the intervening years from Jedi until FA. Even if it wasn't explicitly stated it's pretty clear from context what was happening. The First Order was mostly remnants of the old Imperial military and presumably leadership/bureaucracy that refused to come over to the new government that was formed post 2nd death star.

The new Republic government is presumably a coalition of the rebel alliance and whatever independent planetary systems and old parts of the empire that joined them. I suspect that even with the new Republic being the most "legitimate" contender for galactic hegemony it's far from a done deal and the First Order might still be a militarily dominant force but without a lot of political support at the moment.

After the fall of a huge empire there will naturally be many separate power groups that form and attempt to take control of some or all of old empire.

Now, all that said, this movie was just OK, not sure why Frosh is slobbering all over it. It's derivative in almost every way of previous Star Wars movies. It wasn't particularly well acted, it didn't do much in terms of character development (despite having some interesting character concepts to work with), and it was a bit too self-referential for my taste. It's a 3 or 3.5 stars out of 5 kind of movie, probably the 3rd or 4th best of the 7 Star Wars movies.

3/30/2016 7:04:33 PM

Quote :

"probably the 3rd or 4th best of the 7 Star Wars movies."

I mean, is that a bad thing? It was damn sure better than any of the prequels, and good luck with any new Star Wars movie ever being better than ANH or TESB

3/30/2016 8:07:12 PM

Quote :

"Jesus, it's not that hard to suss out what happened in the intervening years from Jedi until FA. Even if it wasn't explicitly stated it's pretty clear from context what was happening. "

well there should have been a movie about that entire period. Its lost forever now.

3/31/2016 2:18:59 AM

I'm sure that ^ movie is coming.

3/31/2016 7:18:30 AM

The purpose of the movie was never to flesh out that gap in time. They didnt have enough time to figure it out when TFA began pre-production. TFA portrays conversations and context in the given moment for the discussions that matter as they happen.

They have tons of books, comic books, etc to fill in that gap with the new story team thats keeping track of the new extended universe.

So they made the movie to fit the fact that they didn't know details about the 30 year gap or want to explain it. Its just not natural or needed in the movie for people to just start ex-positioning 30 years of history. To the characters, the new order exists, they know why and how and all the details. There isn't a reason to explain it all.

The viewer is not owed perfect information. Its like in Game of Thrones, the viewer/reader knows about 30% of whats really going on. There is so much behind the scenes mess that isn't explained directly.

Lastly, you want a movie that has you asking a lot of questions. It keeps you guessing and questioning what things mean. This thread is a perfect example. Who the hell is Rey? The main character and we know very little about her.

3/31/2016 8:40:21 AM

Is BEUs Lady still your lady?

3/31/2016 11:48:03 AM

Once a BEU's lady, always a BEU's lady

4/1/2016 1:12:37 PM

For those who are fans of Mr. Plinkett's Star War reviews on redlettermedia...he has awakened.

4/1/2016 8:36:42 PM

After Han died, why the fuck did Leia decide to hug Rey before Chewie? Fucking bitch.

Quote :

"YT-1300 freighters are very common. It's not surprising that someone who regarded Solo & co. as legendary figures wouldn't picture the Millennium Falcon as a rickety YT-1300."

allow me to translate

If a Honda Accord won the Indy 500, and you saw a broken down Honda Accord in the desert, would you think it was the car that won the Indy 500?

[Edited on April 8, 2016 at 2:04 AM. Reason : .]

4/8/2016 1:53:30 AM

My theory is that Chewie ignored her because he was pissed at her. She is the one who told Han to bring back their son, thus getting him killed.

4/8/2016 6:41:20 AM

TreeTwista10 said:

Quote :

"After Han died, why the fuck did Leia decide to hug Rey before Chewie? Fucking bitch."

Rey is a young woman who grew up with no emotional support. Chewbacca is a fuckin' 200-year-old Wookiee who spent decades bumming around the galaxy with his best friend. Leia knew Rey needed a hug more.

Chewie was busy following Finn and the medical team to make sure Finn was okay. The pain was probably too raw for him to share it with Leia.

4/8/2016 8:01:50 AM

that's some bullshit and you know it

you hug chewie then go hug rey

4/8/2016 8:33:38 AM

http://www.slashfilm.com/leia-hugging-rey-jj-abrams-force-awakens/

Quote :

"That was probably one of the mistakes I made in that. My thinking at the time was that Chewbacca, despite the pain he was feeling, was focused on trying to save Finn and getting him taken care of. So I tried to have Chewbacca go off with him and focus on Rey, and then have Rey find Leia and Leia find Rey. "

Quote :

"Had Chewbacca not been where he was, you probably wouldn’t have thought of it. But because he was right there, passed by Leia, it felt almost like a slight, which was definitely not the intention."

4/8/2016 8:45:56 AM

JJ Abrams said that Rey's parents were not in TFA. But who knows if he means it.

4/17/2016 3:19:43 PM

She's the daughter of Haan and Leiaa. Or perhaps Luuke and some clone broad.

4/17/2016 5:34:15 PM