And all those letters varys was writing in the last episode telling of jons lineage...what was the point of that scene?

It seems R+L=J was nothing more than a point of consternation between characters and had no point on the plot...though they wanted you to think it did. Gosh damn these writers were so far in over their heads and they fucked this up good

5/19/2019 11:26:55 PM

damn, now what will i do when i want to watch a television show without any black people

5/19/2019 11:38:34 PM

Barry and John oliver come on right after

5/19/2019 11:41:27 PM

I try to respect the fact that creative works are difficult and these writers and artists and actors and graphics designers and camera men and all these people have put a huge amount of work into this show.

But that really was a horrible ending. I think you could pick just about any other show and it has a better ending.

There must have been something going on with the writers, some family issue or mental health thing, and they couldn’t get it figured out in time. Maybe If there was another season coming or more episodes bit that almost couldn’t have been a lamer ending

5/20/2019 1:21:11 AM

Lmao. Apparently theres a water bottle spotted behind sams leg in one of the scenes where tyrion is waxing poetic about why bran is the true king. This fucking crew...2 years to get this horseshit ready and they cant even edit correctly. I guess they were too focused on how horrible the fucking story was. Poor actors...this amazing show turned into a joke

5/20/2019 6:00:31 AM

Remember the Sand Snakes? Those scenes weren’t stupid at all.

5/20/2019 7:05:42 AM

While the throne is destoyed. It has been replaced with a wooden one with wheels. WHEELS! Thats pretty baller!

5/20/2019 8:51:46 AM

So many things about that episode made no damn sense, but Bran ending up on the throne was about the only thing I agreed with.

Though if they got better writers I wouldn't mind watching a spin off of "The Adventures of Arrrr-ya the Pirate".

In regards to all of the, "why even bring up Jon's lineage"...eh, it kinda made sense even with him not winning the throne.
- Had Dany never found out, she was probably less likely to become the Mad Queen. She also would have likely got the D from Jon the night before so she wouldn't have been as likely to burn down KL, instead he spurned her advances and she was horny and angry.
- Sansa knowing drove a wedge in the North and the rest, so that was going to be problematic and Jon knew it. It's why they kept ham-fisting it to us that Sansa wouldn't accept Dany as the Queen and Dany would never let Jon live.
- Jon telling Sansa was a clear sign of him betraying Dany, aka treason. Dany made it abundantly clear what the punishment of treason was under her leadership. Jon knew he was in danger.

TL;DR: If not for the entire lineage subplot, it was less likely Dany would have flipped out and even less likely that Jon would have killed Dany.

5/20/2019 8:53:40 AM

That was the most meh ending ever. I didn't have any emotional reaction to the ending. Extremely boring writing.

Instead of dissecting what happened like I normally would do after an episode, I just find myself asking what the point of this show was at all.

Why didn't anyone give Jon a claim to the throne? He sacrificed himself, killed his queen/lover, and for what? To get imprisoned and shipped off to the wall???

5/20/2019 8:53:55 AM

they wasted the first 30+ minutes on showing us the same thing they showed us last week then just jumped ahead a few weeks and the unsullied are suddenly okay with letting tyrion pick a king and leaving. i wish they explained what the point of the night's watch was now (surely there has to be more of a point than just needing somewhere to send bastards and broken men).

i liked the small council scene, and arya and sansa's endings, but that's it

5/20/2019 9:25:21 AM

Quote :

"Why does the nights watch still even exist??"

My thoughts exactly! The Night King is dead so there is no longer a threat from White Walkers. Tormund and the Wildlings are friends of the kingdom now. What is the Night's Watch protecting the realm from? With the North being an independent kingdom, the Night's Watch aren't even located in the same country.

And why does Bran have to listen to Grey Worm and the Unsullied? They left immediately after everything happened.
Grey Worm: "We insist there is justice! Jon Snow must be punished!"
Bran: "Okay we'll send him back to the Night's Watch!"
Grey Worm: "I come from a culture where death is the only real punishment for this sort of thing and I likely don't really have a strong grasp of how being sent to the Wall is justice, but that works for me! By the way, we are leaving in like 10 mins, so please don't just send him to be king of the North. We won't be here to check if you do, so I'm taking your word for it."

5/20/2019 9:26:54 AM

so bad it was painful.

5/20/2019 9:35:59 AM

I mostly kept it together till Arya said "What's west of Westeros?"

5/20/2019 9:57:49 AM

Yeah this was just rushed as shit. It's a shame to take one of the best things ever on television and come up with this abomination. They had the time, the budget, and all kinds of support/resources to draw on from the fan community. I have to imagine there was a riff somewhere maybe with creative differences between D&D and GRRM where they didn't have him consult on the scripts/plot this season. I also think that the actors really hated how it went and will come out after their non-disclosure agreements end and give us the scoop on how it could all go so awry.

Arya - I think I've written on here about her literally sailing off into the sunset. There are a lot of allusions to it in the books, etc. because there was a Targaryen princess that did the same thing in the books. The ship was called Sunchaser. I liked this ending for her.

Sansa - Also liked this ending and the idea of an independent North. How most of the people sitting at the negotiation didn't also declare independence didn't make sense. The Iron Islands and Dorne both have a history of that.

Bran - I get it, but it was still dumb to me. He travels all that way, basically doesn't help at all, it's not totally clear if he's clairvoyant. If he is, then is he evil for not preventing all of the attrocities that unfolded? The whole "I'm not a man / I don't live in the present" to "why do you think I traveled all this way" was absolute shit.

Jon - Banished to the non-existent, no-purose Wall? gtfo. They foreshadowed it with Ghost and Tormund going up there and Jon saying that he wished he could come with them. So now he's king of the Wildlings? Why isn't Sam going back, he took an oath too?

Yara - I guess the Iron Islands plotline died with Theon.

Tyrion - Hand of the king, ok fine, but trying to sell it as a "punishment" and Grey Worm going from "don't speak, prisoner" to "ok tell us what to do" in three seconds was really dumb.

Grey Worm - They really turned him into kind of a dick at the end there. I guess he had bargaining power since he controlled the army, but it was still dumb to me. Dude was not a politician or noble. Also, I was really unclear on what happened to The Reach. They told him he could have the Reach, but then Bronn shows up claiming the title of Lord of Highgarden. Then Grey Worm sails off to a place with the entire army? that is famous for not having an army or fighting, and having poisonous butterflies that wipe out outsiders, to presumably spread Missandei's ashes. Dumb. He should have died earlier this season.

Bronn - This was also a big wtf. He straight up threatens Tyrion, doesn't help in either big battle, etc. and it's all completely glossed over by everyone and he's given a powerful position, and pretty much the best castle in Westeros.

Dany - This just didn't feel right. They were over the top with trying to flip her back and forth from good to evil and back again. There was just no subtlty. I'll admit the Drogon nudging her dead body scene was really sad, but then the dragon burning the throne like it understands symbolism was kinda dumb. I guess he took her body to dump it off in Essos somewhere? Dragonstone?

Sam - shows up with a book about everything written by somebody else with a colorful ASOIAF design? that was dumb and cringy af. He should have just mentioned he was going to devote his life or whatever to writing it.

Brienne - I liked how she wrote the page for Jamie, but it also conflicts with where they took his plot line. The whole redemption to unredeemable, to fuck the innocents, to let's write a nice story about this guy was kinda weird.

So we never found out much about the Night King. Nymeria never made another appearance, nor did the Faceless Men. I guess Dario is still chillin in Mereen. Arya never kills Ilyn Payne.



[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 10:18 AM. Reason : pic]

5/20/2019 10:09:38 AM

Quote :

"And why does Bran have to listen to Grey Worm and the Unsullied? They left immediately after everything happened."

Yea and (like you touch on a little) vice versa??
How do they know he killed Dany, or even that she is dead? (this one is mostly rhetorical, he prob told on himself bc he is dumb)
Once they found out, wouldn't they just immediately kill him?
Why are unsullied listening at all to that group of nobles?
Why are Sam and brienne there? they aren't leaders of a house, they each swore off their houses. And who picked what houses get a representative? Why do arya and Sansa both get a vote? (actually I can't remember did arya vote?)

Its also not a great look to say "these are heros and great people" and then have them all say "common people are dogs" as a laugh line.

Finally, why does Dany let Tyrion live after that public treason, why doesnt she put him in a dungeon and WHY DOES SHE LET JON TALK TO HIM??

Quote :

"How most of the people sitting at the negotiation didn't also declare independence didn't make sense. The Iron Islands and Dorne both have a history of that. "

Right?? "wait that's an option? Yea we'll have that"

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 10:29 AM. Reason : E]

5/20/2019 10:25:51 AM

^^Agree with you on most of those points.

A few things though. Bronn had an agreement with Tyrion, and Tyrion has shown many times that he is a man of honor and he adheres strongly to "A Lannister always pays his debts". Bronn knew this, and that is why he didn't kill Tyrion immediately when he snuck into Winterfell. It would be out of character for Tyrion to not give Highgarden to Bronn.

Bran - I didn't even think about that. He is supposedly able to see all that has ever come to pass in Westeros and is able to look into the future as to what will come. I guess it is never established if he can affect the future, but it is indicated that he can. So he should have known that Dany would have gone beserk and killed thousands of innocent people, and likely could have prevented it.

Sam - Why didn't they just make it so that he wrote the book? I think he said that the Archmaester did it, right? And they made a point that for whatever reason Tyrion was left out of the whole saga? Why? Tyrion was obviously instrumental to everything happening and pretty much the only Lannister that was actually legitimately "good" the whole time. Why would he be left out?

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason : ]

5/20/2019 10:32:26 AM

^^Exactly. Why was anyone just wondering around alone, too?

When Drogon scooped up Dany and flew off, I was like "oh cool, this buys Jon some time to get out of there" as the snow fell on the blood, but no. Any this bloodthirsty Grey Worm they had just been building up as relentlessly killing Dany's enemies decides to jail him, when moments earlier he was going to kill him for trying to stop the execution of unarmed men?

^Agree on Tyrion being left out, that was dumb. I guess just to add to his humility at the end? They wasted him pretty badly this season. Almost everything he did was a failure.

As far as Bronn, I get that there was an agreement, and it's fine that he ended up with Highgarden, but would you want him on your small council? Why would Bran want him on there? I think Bronn was a minor character that resonated well with fans. The whole him threatening Tyrion/Jamie made zero sense. If it had motivated Jamie to go kill Cercei, that would be one thing, but all it did was hurt his character and had no consequence to the plot.

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 10:37 AM. Reason : Meera Reed / House Reed is another one that disappeared]

5/20/2019 10:32:28 AM

^so it was unclear, but I think that was ash not snow.

Quote :

"Why would he be left out? "

BC ITS FUNNY THAT WAY, YOU DON'T LIKE COMEDY??

5/20/2019 10:36:31 AM

Miguel Sapochnik really fucked up his average this season.

5/20/2019 10:37:29 AM

The literally only bring up the fact Tyrion isn't in the book because Varys said that he wouldn't be mentioned when they tell the stories.

It was a reference to that quote but a stupid one nonetheless.

5/20/2019 10:48:55 AM

Quote :

"BC ITS FUNNY THAT WAY, YOU DON'T LIKE COMEDY??"

Like Edmure Tully making a legitimate speech about how he'd like to throw his name in the hat to be king and Sansa acting like a complete bitch and not even letting him finish talking. Dude is her uncle and she can't even show him some respect. He wasn't even being a dick or anything, his claim to the throne is just as high as Bran's or anyone else's there. He's the Lord of Riverrun. Then he smacks his scabbard on the tent pole for comedic effect. So funny.

By the way, where the hell has he been for the past few seasons? In the books, he was held captive by the Freys after the Red Wedding. Not really sure what happened with the Freys after Arya killed Walder, but Edmure just kind of showed up out of nowhere.

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

5/20/2019 10:58:10 AM

Quote :

"He's the Lord of Riverrun"

Is he though? I agree with the spirit of your post but this goes back to "why is ______ there?" who fished him out of the cells and, I guess, gave him his titles back. I'm sure Riverrun soldiers are thrilled he is back after selling them down the river (pun intended! Comedy!)

Also who was the random guy beside Vale sergeant guy?

5/20/2019 11:16:37 AM

Quote :

"- Had Dany never found out, she was probably less likely to become the Mad Queen. She also would have likely got the D from Jon the night before so she wouldn't have been as likely to burn down KL, instead he spurned her advances and she was horny and angry."

Her turn was already pretty bad writing, taking this point away doesn't change that much. In fact, the only reasonable explanation for her going ape shit is that she's crazy, which doesn't change if she doesn't have someone else with a legitimate claim to the throne. Justifying her actions because she didn't get laid is quite a stretch

Quote :

"- Sansa knowing drove a wedge in the North and the rest, so that was going to be problematic and Jon knew it. It's why they kept ham-fisting it to us that Sansa wouldn't accept Dany as the Queen and Dany would never let Jon live. "

Sansa didn't want to be ruled by Dany before she knew about Jon, that changed nothing in her attitude

Quote :

"- Jon telling Sansa was a clear sign of him betraying Dany, aka treason. Dany made it abundantly clear what the punishment of treason was under her leadership. Jon knew he was in danger. "

Jon didn't kill Dany because he thought she'd kill him, he killed her because he thought she'd kill his sisters, which she was likely going to do regardless of who he is

5/20/2019 11:31:32 AM

Imagine getting nominated for King and your sister immediately tells everyone your dick doesn't work.

5/20/2019 11:39:32 AM

Funny how the death of most Dothraki and the massacre of the citizens in the capital city carried no weight on who should lead

5/20/2019 11:40:50 AM

Quote :

"Is he though?"

I thought he was? Hoster Tully died, and he is next in line, right?

5/20/2019 1:15:04 PM

Didn’t the Blackfish dive into the most and get away? Whatever happened to him?. He dead. Demure was the heir before that anyway.

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 2:35 PM. Reason : Lannister soldier reported to Jamie he died resisting arrest]

5/20/2019 2:31:19 PM

Quote :

"Also who was the random guy beside Vale sergeant guy?"

The little dickhead Lord Robin Arryn all grown up.

5/20/2019 2:35:17 PM

^^^Yea but he gave it away. He would have needed his titles restored. I'm sure someone in that group would be willing to restore them, but when Dany landed he was lord of nothing.

5/20/2019 2:51:43 PM

I'm sure Brienne will do a great job protecting Renly Catelyn Sansa Bran

5/20/2019 2:53:15 PM

Didn't that book that Brienne wrote in say "Jaime died protecting his queen...and then right before it closed it said "queen Brienne"?

5/20/2019 3:10:22 PM

Random question, and it may be a stupid one.

Were we to take Jon's walking out of the gate with the wildlings to mean that he wasn't intending to stay at the Night's watch?

At first blush, I though they were taking a cheap grab at a spin-off opportunity. Jon north of the wall could be equally as interesting as Arya west of Westeross.

5/20/2019 3:35:52 PM

There is absolutely no reason to have a Night's Watch, it always felt like a ploy to try and convince Grey Worm not to kill him and turn him over.

No one in the North or anyone actually left at the Wall was going to try and hold Jon to any service there so he went North of the wall to be King In The North North(King of the Wildlings).

There is no reason to even patch the hole in the wall let alone waste time putting men on defending a wall with no threat North of it. Hell they even showed the blade of grass sticking through the snow as they were heading North, clearly Winter is over and that area will likely turn green again as it was in the days before the Night King.

5/20/2019 3:46:36 PM

You never know, there might still be snarks and grumpkins.

5/20/2019 4:05:36 PM

This new kingdom is RIPE for invasion

5/20/2019 4:11:33 PM

So are the wildlings in the closing shot pretty much the only wildlings left? I feel like there is no way the Night King would leave any humans alive in his wake, except for situations like Craster where they had an arrangement. So pretty much if they didn't get south of the wall before the Night King started his invasion, they were turned into white walkers.

So if Jon is now going north to be their king, he's king of like a few hundred people? And on top of that, they could have all come from different tribes that are spread all over the place, so it's not like they would be in one settlement. With that few people left, what serious conflict would there even be north of the wall?

5/20/2019 4:40:17 PM

Yeah I don't think there's much action to show there, with there being so few wildlings left and presumably they are one big tribe now. Jon is going back where he had freely chosen to go originally, to follow in Benjen's footsteps as a ranger. There's also that Aemon Targaryen parallel as far as renouncing the crown goes to serve at the Wall.

5/20/2019 5:00:09 PM

So bad. So much didn’t even make sense.

And it didn’t seem at all within the character of Bran to accept being king. Becoming the 3 eyed raven seems like it was meant to be above all that. He should have like ended up in the forest and people go seek his advice when the world has issues. His like 8 lines this season were all so dumb, “why do you think I came all this way” or whatever he said about being king, really? “You we’re right where you were suppose to be.” So stupid.

5/20/2019 5:57:11 PM

Quote :

"Her turn was already pretty bad writing, taking this point away doesn't change that much. In fact, the only reasonable explanation for her going ape shit is that she's crazy, which doesn't change if she doesn't have someone else with a legitimate claim to the throne. Justifying her actions because she didn't get laid is quite a stretch"

I disagree with this. There’s plenty to foreshadow her turn and it fits with the theme that power corrupts. This is one thing I’d argue they got right this season.

5/20/2019 6:38:02 PM

there is plenty to foreshadow but they still skipped over 5 rungs of events/character development/etc. to finally get there which still made it super cringe-worthy.

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 6:56 PM. Reason : ]

5/20/2019 6:55:55 PM

Few things made any sense.

There wasn't even any great climactic showdowns, or Cersi with one last desperation attempt with something up her sleeve. Any 8 fans of the show could have sat in a room together with $500,000,000 and come up with something better than this.

5/20/2019 7:21:42 PM

^^Yea they went from "mad and depressed" to "sociopath" in like one beat

[Edited on May 20, 2019 at 7:26 PM. Reason : 2]

5/20/2019 7:26:23 PM

^ how was it supposed to happen? It was do or die time. Her best friend was killed. Her hand betrayed her. Sansa was against her. Then she finds out her lover has a more powerful claim to lead and people like him more— after all the work she put in and people she lost? Her snap and desperate attempt to keep the throne makes perfect sense to me.

This blog captures where I think the writing went wrong:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

The story wasn’t truly considered within the broader context of the world. None of the suffering of the people slaughtered mattered, the impact of the fall of the ice wall didn’t matter, death of ice king ultimately inconsequential, bran being the king makes a lot of sense but the show does very little to tie it in with all these events.

5/20/2019 9:56:36 PM

Desperate attempt to keep the throne? How in the world does destroying KL help her keep the throne? If that was the motivation shouldn't she be killing Jon Tyrion and the Starks?? She's got a magically refreshed army of unsullied and dothraki plus the dornish and a dragon.

5/20/2019 11:18:35 PM

This episode didn't make much sense, but I gave up on it making any sense after episode 3.

It was more satisfying than I expected it to be after the previous episode.

Quote :

"So are the wildlings in the closing shot pretty much the only wildlings left? I feel like there is no way the Night King would leave any humans alive in his wake, except for situations like Craster where they had an arrangement. So pretty much if they didn't get south of the wall before the Night King started his invasion, they were turned into white walkers. "

I think the NK made a beeline from where he breached the wall in the east to Winterfell, only stopping to massacre people along the way when they were in his path, like the Umbers.

I'd assume all the wildlings that were settled around Castle Black, and the ones left north of the wall who are in the west (the largest part of the far north), could still be alive.

Perhaps the bulk of the wildlings that came through the wall had already been let through by Tormund when Jon showed up.

5/21/2019 12:00:54 AM

Sophie turner has come out and said that shes not surprised about the petition and the negative reviews because people react negatively when moments in the show dont go the way they want. She says we should just appreciate all the hard work that was put into the show and not be disrespectful.

Which has seemed to become the rallying cry for those who think the writing was fine...aka, idiots. It angers me that if you have fair criticism for the writing that you are just considered mad because the show didnt go the way you wanted...which is so far from the truth.

[Edited on May 21, 2019 at 7:48 AM. Reason : Dhdh]

5/21/2019 7:47:03 AM

^lol seems in line with her character on the show. How is it being disrespectful to say we don't like the way the last season went and it had lazy writing? There are literally tons of plot holes, loose ends, and things that straight up don't make sense. A lot of these things aren't even subjective, they are just facts.

5/21/2019 9:31:05 AM

you guys think it's weird that she is standing up for people she has worked with for the last 9 years whom she probably respects greatly? i mean what else would you expect except for a diplomatic response like that?

5/21/2019 10:00:50 AM

I almost felt like preparing for a Monty Python moment when everyone was gathered in the dragon pit.

Here's how horribly rushed this show had become. Several seasons ago, there would have been a dedicated episode detailing how each house came to that meeting in the dragon pit. Characters would have been sent to each house, deals would have been made to get them there, minor conflicts would have happened along the way - it would have been fleshed out. But nope. We're to assume that Sam sent ravens out, and each house came without question in a matter of...days? The Vale isn't all that close to KL. Remember how long it took Caetylin(sp?) To get from KL to the Vale? Wasn't that a couple of episodes? And the Iron Islands? She just came without question, where all series long the Iron Islanders were these hard people who didn't give a shit about anybody but themselves? Riverrun ok sure. Do we even know who came from Dorne? I mean shit, there were at least 3 episodes worth of story with the aftermath of the Martell's deaths and who rules Dorne now. And Robyn all of a sudden is able to keep his mouth shut and not talk about making people fly? Is he competent now?

That meeting was just awful.

I could go on and on.

5/21/2019 10:13:12 AM

Don’t think Sophie Turner, like many other actors/actresses was jazzed with the script, but the petition is pretty shitty, even if you are critical. It’s not going to happen, so it’s just adding insult to injury.

5/21/2019 10:31:27 AM