^^^no, i tried to turn it on a couple times, but had to immediately cut it off because the tug-at-your heartstrings coverage disgusted me.

but why are you bringing this back up again and being a dick? it's almost as if you get a thrill from arguing and insulting people.

Quote :

"You don't believe that there is any difference between drama whores who are glued to Nancy Grace (to use your example from the other thread) and people who don't watch the sensationalized television coverage but do have a genuine interest in trying to wrap their heads around how and why something like this could happen?"

exactly. but according to that guy, you're a despicable human and you are the problem if you feel this way.

[Edited on December 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

12/19/2012 2:52:16 PM

Quote :

"Pure bullshit. The kids that do this horrific shit typically have absentee or abusive/authoritarian parents."

I was not talking about this incident with that statement. In general, children today are crappy, stuck up, uncontrolled shits. I've taught is 3 different schools, I do know what I'm talking about.

12/19/2012 3:04:28 PM

So was I 15 years ago. Now I'm all, "Get off my lawn!"

12/19/2012 4:22:40 PM

^^Every generation says that about the new one, aside from these small public killings, we're doing better than the gang crime in the 90's, the drug crime of the 80's, or the serial killings of the 70's.

12/19/2012 4:37:34 PM

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
- Plato, 3rd century BC

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
- Socrates, 4th century BC

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint"
- Hesiod, 8th century BC

12/19/2012 4:41:00 PM

Quote :

"exactly. but according to that guy, you're a despicable human and you are the problem if you feel this way"

exactly, because there is no difference

12/19/2012 5:15:55 PM

sorry man, you're wrong, and i'm not arguing with you anymore. it's ok if some people are interested in mental health and want to understand why tragedies like this occur.

12/19/2012 5:56:11 PM

Because thats what you get watching the report now, verify later, give the killer attention media frenzy... facts about mental health

12/19/2012 6:21:48 PM

Quote :

"I was not talking about this incident with that statement. In general, children today are crappy, stuck up, uncontrolled shits. I've taught is 3 different schools, I do know what I'm talking about."

If it has fuck all to do with mass shootings or gun control, why is it in this thread? I'm smelling a backpedal here.

12/19/2012 11:41:35 PM

.

[Edited on December 20, 2012 at 2:13 AM. Reason : .]

12/20/2012 2:11:00 AM

Children have always been shitheads. This guy teaches for a few years and thinks he has seen into the soul of America's youth.

Gag.

12/20/2012 10:25:49 AM

I don't have any data to back this up, just qualitative speculation, but it seems to me that the highest per capita civilian firearm possession would be in the south which also seems to have the fewest incidences of mass shootings like this

Feel free to prove/disprove

12/20/2012 2:00:56 PM

Fort Hood was in Texas and of course Blacksburgh (that far south in VA is "the south," no?)but these shootings are so infrequent that its obviously a small sample.

The top ten states by gun deaths per capita in general are Mississippi, Arizona, Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Alabama, Nevada, Montana and Wyoming... All rural strongholds.

No Northeast or north-Midwest states in Top 20.

* I got this from an article after the Giffords shooting and haven't had time to vet, though its sourced from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

12/20/2012 2:08:38 PM

the per capital distribution would likely have no effect on mad-man shootings. There may be something in the more everyday shootings though.

12/20/2012 2:41:46 PM

Quote :

"My name is Natalie Barden and I wanted to tell the president that only police officers and the military should get guns. If people want to do it as a sport than they could go to a shooting range and the guns would not be able to leave there."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/anderson-cooper-reads-sister-victim-letter-intended-obama-151325260.html

12/20/2012 3:25:17 PM

lolololol

from my cold dead hands

12/20/2012 3:29:48 PM

-10 for using "than" instead of "then"

[Edited on December 20, 2012 at 3:35 PM. Reason : ]

12/20/2012 3:30:07 PM

Quote :

"I don't have any data to back this up, just qualitative speculation, but it seems to me that the highest per capita civilian firearm possession would be in the south which also seems to have the fewest incidences of mass shootings like this"

Actually, MSNBC covered a study on this recently. I can't remember the source, but it seemed decently unbiased and scientific. For instance, they showed that there was little correlation between gun violence and mental health, but a strong correlation between gun related deaths and how weak (relatively speaking) the gun control laws were in that State.

And I was amazed at how much more frequent these instances are in the deep south compared to the rest of the country.

12/20/2012 3:41:49 PM

Quote :

"lolololol from my cold dead hands"

I think it's nice Nancy Lanza got to live out one of the quintessential American gun owner fantasies.

12/20/2012 3:44:52 PM

Quote :

"-10 for using "than" instead of "then""

Well she is 10 years old.

12/20/2012 3:46:47 PM

Quote :

"Actually, MSNBC covered a study on this recently. I can't remember the source, but it seemed decently unbiased and scientific. For instance, they showed that there was little correlation between gun violence and mental health, but a strong correlation between gun related deaths and how weak (relatively speaking) the gun control laws were in that State."

connecticut had a state-wide "assault weapons ban" very similar to the '94 AWB

12/20/2012 3:55:57 PM

^^ put the two together and what do you get? someone that shouldn't be able to tell me how i can or can't protect my family.

also:

Quote :

"I think it's nice Nancy Lanza got to live out one of the quintessential American gun owner fantasies."

wow...

[Edited on December 20, 2012 at 3:58 PM. Reason : ]

12/20/2012 3:56:26 PM

Or you get a sad little girl who tried to write to the president to let him know what she was thinking.

12/20/2012 4:07:22 PM

it's a sad little girl that has no clue on the subject matter, but yet her letter will be used for political fodder anyway.

12/20/2012 4:09:31 PM

Quote :

"connecticut had a state-wide "assault weapons ban" very similar to the '94 AWB"

Again, you're talking about small samples when it comes to these mass shootings.

If the study I posted is to be believed, it's a verifiable fact that per capita there are more deaths by gun in the rural states (I assume they have gun control law rankings somewhere?).

Even with shitty Chicago, Illinois doesn't show up on that list.

12/20/2012 4:31:18 PM

Quote :

"wow..."

I *don't* think it's nice. It was a sarcastic comment on the banality of the "cold dead hands" sentiment. Obviously I would prefer it if she was still alive and didn't have the guns that could be stolen and used to kill 28 people.

12/20/2012 4:35:45 PM

Yes, NyM you are correct. But this is what makes gun control so difficult to talk about. People are only concerned with jamming their argument down your throat. I really wish we could just calm down and have a scientific discussion about this.

12/20/2012 4:58:01 PM

Important to note, though, that those are gun deaths which also include accidental (and I don't agree with legislating against stupidity!).

12/20/2012 5:35:11 PM

North Dakota = Highest rate of gun ownership & lowest rate of gun violence.

12/20/2012 6:49:26 PM

how many dozens of people live in ND?

12/20/2012 7:07:56 PM

Quote :

"Didn't you catch the part where the founding fathers clearly stated that we could have militarized weapons?"

Obviously you didn't, because that's []exactly[/i] what they said. It's not like they had just finished rebelling against a tyrannical government by means of *gasp* military force *gasp*.

12/20/2012 7:49:18 PM

I really feel like the culture of people that believe that the police are a tyrannical force have never been in a crunch and needed them. It is some dogma that just needs to stop being perpetuated.

12/20/2012 8:16:53 PM

.

[Edited on December 20, 2012 at 8:56 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2012 8:44:29 PM

Quote :

"Also, have you seen the police? Few are truely good, honest, public servants. The rest are very questionable."

I feel this is the complete opposite of what's true. A few bad apples ruin the whole thing for the mostly good.

Anyway, I am absolutely a supporter of the right to own a gun... but find aaronburro to be a completely unreasonable nut. He's basically endorsing the public owning grenades, RPGs and whatever other weapon they could afford unless I'm misinterpreting what he is saying.

12/20/2012 8:50:14 PM

the supreme court has ruled that it's not a LEO's job to "protect and serve" the public. their job is to enforce laws.

12/20/2012 8:52:50 PM

If you want to get in to semantics that's fine, but to me that is pretty much the same thing.

Especially considering one's personal beliefs could lend different interpretations of "protect and serve" where there is little interpretation in "enforcing the law."

12/20/2012 8:55:16 PM

DeShaney vs. Winnebago County and Castle Rock vs. Gonzales were not issues of semantics


have you put forth any suggestions for reasonable gun control itt?

[Edited on December 20, 2012 at 9:04 PM. Reason : fad]

12/20/2012 8:57:57 PM

Quote :

"Also I am all for actually respecting the ENTIRE second amendment, and allowing the formation of State Militias that you could enroll in for access to greater firepower."

Too bad the "Militia clause" is not binding in any way, shape, or form. The 2nd Amendment could say "given that the moon is made of cheese, the right to keep an bear arms shall not be infringed" and it would have the exact same literal meaning.

Quote :

"The leap in logic that he had it out, therefore the killer saw he was doomed because of a brave local patriot and so offed himself."

REALLY? You're faced with actual verifiable evidence that a CCW stopped a mass shooting, and now you're gonna play the "oh, we don't know what really happened or what really would have happened. Maybe johnny shoots billy and then billy shoots gerry!" This guy did EXACTLY the right things, mainly due to his training, and it saved lives. Hey, I'll play your "we don't know" game. "We don't know what would have happened had the principal in CT had a weapon locked up in her office and been able to use that to fight back, instead of throwing her body in front of a hail of gunfire." See how that works? Yeah, you'll come back with some sarcastic rant.

Quote :

"Good story, here's another one: Once upon a time Adam Lanza took a legally acquired semiautomatic rifle from his mother and shot 27 people dead in Connecticut. Good guys: 1, Bad Guys: 27."

And you ignore ANOTHER instance where a bystander helps. Are you just trying to be obtuse at this point?

Quote :

"Toobin, one of the great legal minds of our time, sheds some light on the judicial activism that changed the wording of the constitution to make sure we could all conceal carry to over throw the tyrants and hoodrats trying to break in to our suburban homes each day."

Ummm, dude. It was IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION that allowed citizens to be disarmed in the first place. THAT is where the "changing of the wording" occurred. "Shall not be infringed" is pretty damned explicit in its meaning.

12/20/2012 9:42:07 PM

10 pages later and my initial assessment is still spot on

12/20/2012 9:59:41 PM

Quote :

" I really feel like the culture of people that believe that the police are a tyrannical force have never been in a crunch and needed them. It is some dogma that just needs to stop being perpetuated."

Hmm, I don't know about I completely tyrannical, but I can vouch for useless when you need them. I've mentioned this story before, but it to me solidifies why you need to be able to defend yourself so I'll mention it again. Back when RPD had a sub station over near the Avent Ferry Food Lion, I lived in an apartment that was a 5 minute car ride, and a 20 minute walk away. One afternoon, my roommates and I were sitting around and someone outside started shooting a gun and shot through our window. So we put in a call to RPD. Now I realize that calls get prioritized, but you might think that bullets coming through your window would rank decently high on the list of calls. It took 45 minutes for the police to show up. 45 minutes from the time that bullets started flying before anyone with the ability to do anything other than hide inside and hope someone wasn't coming through the door showed up. Thankfully in this case, no one was coming through the door, but the cops never did find the gun or shooter. Busted some kid for pot though. Point is, if it takes 45 minutes for the police to respond to a shots fired call, I sure as hell aren't going to rely or depend on them "in a crunch." Simply put, no one gives as much of a damn about my life and my safety as myself, and therefore, no one else is going to be able or willing to defend it to the same degree.

12/20/2012 10:16:32 PM

Quote :

"the supreme court has ruled that it's not a LEO's job to "protect and serve" the public. their job is to enforce laws."

Quote :

"If you want to get in to semantics that's fine, but to me that is pretty much the same thing."

"Protecting and serving" and law enforcement are often very different things. Nazi soldiers were enforcing the law. Just obeying orders, right? Come on, this is about way more than semantics.

Quote :

"My name is Natalie Barden and I wanted to tell the president that only police officers and the military should get guns. If people want to do it as a sport than they could go to a shooting range and the guns would not be able to leave there."

Government propaganda is successful? No fucking way. Tell me, little girl - in the 20th century, how many people did private individuals kill? And how many people did government agents kill? Does it matter that governments were responsible for the lion's share of murders? Ah, right. We don't call it murder as long as the person doing the killing is in a uniform.

The United States government is operated almost entirely by sociopaths, but fuck it, let's give them sole ownership of the most powerful guns. I mean, it's not like bad people are going to be drawn to this power. They'll be happy enough with their air rifles, I'm sure.

12/20/2012 11:56:41 PM

It obviously was not an emergency situation. Sorry. Not being a dick, but I prolly wouldn't have called them. I would have def called landlord though.

Now one time I lived on chamberlain and my crazy neighbor chased after me with a knife and cops literally fell from the fuckin air. Turns out he was a scitzo and got sent to a home. Anyways I hate going into personal stories because it's unscientific. Sample size is only one person.

12/21/2012 12:01:34 AM

Quote :

"One afternoon, my roommates and I were sitting around and someone outside started shooting a gun and shot through our window."

Quote :

"It obviously was not an emergency situation. Sorry. Not being a dick, but I prolly wouldn't have called them."

12/21/2012 12:11:35 AM

Quote :

"have you put forth any suggestions for reasonable gun control itt?"

Breech load rifles and shotguns, that's it. That's my opinion, it's more than enough to hunt or protect yourself on your property.

12/21/2012 12:29:55 AM

Quote :

"The 2nd Amendment could say "given that the moon is made of cheese, the right to keep an bear arms shall not be infringed" and it would have the exact same literal meaning."

12/21/2012 12:55:58 AM

if the 2nd amendment doesn't give the individual right to defend yourself

and it doesn't give us the right to form militias with arms equal to those of the government

what the fuck does it do?

[Edited on December 21, 2012 at 1:22 AM. Reason : derp derp guns are bad]

12/21/2012 1:22:22 AM

If there is serious debate as to whether the 2nd amendment allows any nutjob to own a nuclear warhead, then maybe it's time to consider another constitutional amendment to clarify the 2nd, because that is goddamn ridiculous.

12/21/2012 7:55:27 AM

Only idiots are arguing that, the courts and Supreme Court are clear that reasonable restrictions and controls are okay


[Edited on December 21, 2012 at 8:35 AM. Reason : .]

12/21/2012 8:34:49 AM

Quote :

"Breech load rifles and shotguns"

Reasonable my ass.

12/21/2012 8:35:50 AM

Quote :

"Important to note, though, that those are gun deaths which also include accidental (and I don't agree with legislating against stupidity!)."

A lot of accidental gun deaths are more on the stupidity of the parent that didn't secure the firearm/ammunition.

I'm fine for legislating against the stupidity that gets other people than the stupid killed.

12/21/2012 9:31:51 AM