oh wait, thats kinda what i did in this thread

6/17/2007 12:31:25 PM

David Chase and HBO shouldn't have said a damn thing...the same reason why this thread died.

As soon as we had "official" speculation, it killed the conversation.

6/19/2007 1:21:55 AM

I still don't think he's dead

6/19/2007 9:51:17 AM

^^and the "official" speculation was based on something that didn't even happen on the show. Bobby never said "and everything goes black" I'm pretty sure the person from HBO just wanted to be in the news. And David Chase hasn't commented on the shows ending at all other than to say

Quote :

""I have no interest in explaining, defending, reinterpreting, or adding to what is there," he says of the final scene. "

and

Quote :

"Anybody who wants to watch it, it's all there," says Chase, 61, who based the series in general (and Tony's relationship with mother Livia specifically) on his North Caldwell childhood. "

I don't think the "official" speculation killed the conversation, there are only so many ways to argue what happened at the end. I think they've all been agued on in this thread. What else is there to add? Some believe that Tony was killed and others don't. I don't think there's going to be this "ah ha" moment where someone finds this missing clue in the episode to determine what happened. I'd actually be suprised if David Chase knows if Tony was killed or not.

[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/19/2007 3:57:15 PM

Any official explanation would suck. Do you really want to know whats in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction or the case in Ronin? Do you really want to know if Saturday Night Live's character "Pat" was a man or a woman? You think you do but you really dont

6/19/2007 4:07:48 PM

on further review, Tony Soprano is Dead

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/

6/19/2007 4:13:12 PM

^^exactly! That's why I think the ending was brilliant.

6/19/2007 4:15:08 PM

^^wow that is some pretty feasible sounding shit

6/19/2007 4:40:12 PM

daaaaaaaaamn! enjoyed the read

(and it killed a good 15 minutes at work too!!)

6/19/2007 4:51:49 PM

don't get me wrong Sweethart, I loved the ending

6/19/2007 4:52:08 PM

^^^^^ that convinced me

6/19/2007 5:56:28 PM

annnnnnnnnnnnd

/Thread

6/19/2007 6:06:42 PM

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3391186

aha the song on this dudes profile is pretty funny

6/19/2007 6:19:34 PM

I KNEW

i had seen that shirt before

interesting read

6/19/2007 7:25:52 PM

the funeral mass was for the death of the show, not Tony. Tony wouldn't eat a communion wafer onion ring at his own funeral, and he wouldn't have stared at the greeting cards outside the restaurant like he was looking at the attendance list at a funeral mass if it was his own.

That author took a lot of liberty with drawing shaky conclusions about the member's only guy and how he fit in with the ominous setting of the scene. Tony's vision didn't go to black; ours did.

[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 7:45 PM. Reason : I think tony wore that shirt a lot.]

6/19/2007 7:44:29 PM

so the solazzo/godfather parallels, eating an orange, the cat, the shirt, the episode where he got shot before...all that is just random to you?

6/20/2007 8:35:58 PM

seriously, guys

I said

/thread

6/20/2007 8:52:39 PM

what are we supposed to do now, create an official Sopranos Season Six Part II DVD thread?

i heard Hillary and Bill made some spoof of the diner scene for Hillary's campaign, even having Bill say something about onion rings and Chelsea parallel parking...too bad the song that played was some Celine Dion

6/20/2007 8:58:33 PM

lets debate how much the box set will cost

6/20/2007 9:25:20 PM

Quote :

"so the solazzo/godfather parallels, eating an orange, the cat, the shirt, the episode where he got shot before...all that is just random to you? "

go back and watch the episode again; the guy is seriously grasping at straws. The whole episode is filmed to make all the buggers waiting for Tony to die to be at the edge of their seats. It never happens.

6/20/2007 9:39:06 PM

Quote :

"lets debate how much the box set will cost"

300+

6/20/2007 10:29:44 PM

^^i dont know how you can watch ~7 seasons of the show and not realize how much symbolism chase uses and how most little details always have meaning...he might be grasping at some straws but there are way way too many things that make sense to discount it...i would say go and watch the whole series again

6/20/2007 11:29:00 PM

yeah after that guy's review i'm definitely on board with the tony's dead view.

it's not that the idea he was dead was far-fetched at first, i just hadn't seen any theories that were entirely convincing. this guy provides more than enough for me. there might be a few things that he is reaching a bit on, but i agree with the vast majority of them. especially all the godfather allusions, including the more obvious bathroom one that i immediately thought about when watching the episode live.

so i'm in agreement. tony's dead.

6/20/2007 11:38:12 PM

and its obviously still everyone's own opinion since chase didnt make it blatant but certainly left it to interpretation

6/20/2007 11:46:34 PM

well i don't think he made it blatant, but i also think he definitely had a specific ending in mind.

6/20/2007 11:56:37 PM

I'm going through some serious withdraw maaaaan.

I watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and am waiting for that and I've heard I'll love "The Wire." But damn...I loved having an "appointment TV" show. Never had one before. I love Seinfeld...but that was in reruns when I picked it up.

Basically, I miss the family.

6/21/2007 12:15:34 AM

puh-leeze! bob harris is stretching more than a rubber band to come to those conclusions.

6/21/2007 12:36:46 AM

the only thing that keeps me second guessing his death is this:

who and why?

6/21/2007 12:46:21 AM

Quote :

"^^i dont know how you can watch ~7 seasons of the show and not realize how much symbolism chase uses and how most little details always have meaning...he might be grasping at some straws but there are way way too many things that make sense to discount it...i would say go and watch the whole series again "

he also has a habit of not having anything happen in season finales other than tie up loose ends surrounding Tony and then show how life goes on. Even his choice of final song did exactly that. The show was meant to be suspenseful and to serve as a final "fuck you" to all the people who watched the series just for the gratuitous violence of mob life.

6/21/2007 8:29:40 AM

Quote :

"i dont know how you can watch ~7 seasons of the show and not realize how much symbolism chase uses and how most little details always have meaning...he might be grasping at some straws but there are way way too many things that make sense to discount it...i would say go and watch the whole series again"

You're talking about eleusis here. Remember, he knows EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING.

6/21/2007 8:40:49 AM

just because I'm capable of thinking for myself doesn't mean I know everything. It just means I'm not going to believe some jibberish written about what you wanted to see happen to Tony but didn't.

6/21/2007 9:30:56 AM

Quote :

"the only thing that keeps me second guessing his death is this: who and why? "

guy in the members only jacket

phil ordered it

so eleusis...you think David Chase...who knew how the series was going to end all along...who knew how it would end back when it was a pilot that might've easily never even made it to a 2nd episode...that the finale he planned all along was to give a big fuck you to the segment of the audience expecting gore? sounds like you're reaching for a lot more straws than that blogger

6/21/2007 9:38:56 AM

If by claiming to "think for yourself" you mean delusional hubris, yeah, I'm with you.

6/21/2007 9:40:52 AM

Quote :

"i heard Hillary and Bill made some spoof of the diner scene for Hillary's campaign, even having Bill say something about onion rings and Chelsea parallel parking...too bad the song that played was some Celine Dion "

They are playing Journey during the spoof as well. I thought it was kind of dumb, but Phil was in it and walks by (probably going to the bathroom) and glares at the table. Apparently the commercial had something to do with people voting on Hillary's theme song. At the end I believe she's telling Bill that a song had been chosen and then it cuts to black. Then something pops up telling people to go to the website to find out what song won. It was Celine Dion.

6/21/2007 9:57:29 AM

^ johnny sack, not phil.

but yeah, it was kind of dumb.

6/21/2007 10:04:23 AM

Quote :

"so eleusis...you think David Chase...who knew how the series was going to end all along...who knew how it would end back when it was a pilot that might've easily never even made it to a 2nd episode...that the finale he planned all along was to give a big fuck you to the segment of the audience expecting gore?"

he didn't have a finale planned all along, and he has stated numerous times that he despises the people who watched the show just for the mundane violence and not for the amount of plotting that goes into the show.

6/21/2007 11:49:41 AM

Quote :

"he didn't have a finale planned all along"

uhhh

6/21/2007 11:55:48 AM

i started to write something in retort, but there's no use

6/21/2007 12:06:51 PM

what, you think he had this planned at the end of his pilot episode? or Season 1? or Season 2? or Season 3? or Season 4? he might have had it planned for season 6, but then he got told to drag it out another 9 episodes. David Chase had to change his storyline drastically for the third season when the actress playing Olivia Soprano died, so you can't claim his script was set in stone from the beginning.

Even still, that hardly proves that his intention was to kill off Tony.

6/21/2007 12:12:04 PM

there are multiple interviews with D. Chase where he admits to having to change story arcs and altering character presence when they decided to split up the last season etc by ordering more eps

i think in one interview they state that he used the mid season hiatus to figure out how exactly it was going to end

6/21/2007 12:15:39 PM

the interview between the NJ newspaper writer and Chase after the episode said he wrote season 6 during the long break between seasons 5 and 6. ^exactly he came up with THE ENDING during the 21 month break of 5 and 6...they added more episodes to season 6 like ^ is saying.

but I think what Twista is trying to say is that Chase had an idea on where he was going with the series, but the actual putting it on paper happened later like what you're saying.

but the rest of it i'm not touching with a ten foot pole. i've already stated what i felt about the ending, and i'm not gonna turn blue in the face to convince you otherwise. and neither will David Chase for any of us so I guess we're all stuck in Tony's hell

[Edited on June 21, 2007 at 12:22 PM. Reason : ]

6/21/2007 12:18:19 PM

so David Chase wrote 6 seasons worth "life goes on" television with almost no closure whatsoever, and then decided all along he was going to show definite closure to the life of Tony Soprano by scripting an ambiguous ending? Bullshit.

6/21/2007 12:23:16 PM

eh, whatyagonnado?

6/21/2007 12:26:46 PM

to re-state the obvious, we're all just discussing our own opinions which can never be completely confirmed

and ok, maybe he didnt know exactly how he was going to end the show originally...but i think he had the basic idea

it just makes a lot more sense to me to do something with deep symbolism and other mob references like the "tony is dead" theory than to simply "snub the viewers who only watched for graphic violence"

6/21/2007 12:44:55 PM

^ That's stupid tho. If viewers actually signed up to HBO to watch the Sopranos for Graphic Violence, they are deluding themselves because to be honest with you, sans a couple of episodes here and there - by large the series is really not all that violent. Much more a character drama and dealing with relationships of family, morality, psychology, and the organized/disorganization of crime in New Jersey. I mean it's not like this gun running mafia heart-thumping series...

It hasnt been for a while, so the whole 'snub/fuck you to those viewers' is really kind of stupid. They aren't on board, trust me.

6/21/2007 12:49:07 PM

he didn't have the finale planned all along. that's what the 22 month layoff between 5 and 6 was for. the chairman approached him at the end of season 5 and said start thinking about how to end it, and chase said ok but only on the condition that he can take a long time off to come up with it.

6/22/2007 2:47:54 AM

hey another post in this thread

6/22/2007 3:02:08 AM

watched it again last night

"say bye bye papa!"

6/22/2007 9:40:58 AM

show's over, faggots

6/22/2007 10:30:48 AM

its over? gosh i hadnt realized that

6/22/2007 11:22:25 AM