FeebleMinded had no fucking clue about what the teapot was, he didn't deny its existence. If you believe in God or not, that teapot may be there. If you're atheistic and you deny the existence of the teapot, you might be assuming that mankind was the only incidence of advanced sentience in the universe and that the teapot was not crafted and placed in orbit by some extra terrestrial life. If you believe in God and deny the existence of the teapot, you might be assuming that because it's not in the Holy Bible, it cannot be there. However, since a teapot is the size of a small rock and it quite far away such that we can never detect it, I cannot deny its existence except on the grounds that it were made by Man because the British space program never went very far.

10/10/2009 12:07:03 PM

Quote :

"Anyway, the point is FeebleMinded says it's stupid and arrogant to deny the possibility of God. Is it? Only if we also then say it's stupid and arrogant to deny the possibility of the teapot, the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn, that the universe was created last Thursday... "

Atheists, and I don’t think anyone in this thread, denies the mere possibility of a god, they deny the existence of any particular God.

10/10/2009 12:29:33 PM

I cannot give an accurate estimate as to how many people in the world believe in some kind of God. A total guess would maybe be 80-90%. This may be a bit high, but I am not saying they believe in "God" as most Christians know it..... simply a higher power. What I can say is, although I do not necessarily agree with all these people, for me, one person in a world of billions, to claim that there is absolutely no possible way that they are right, not a 1 in a zillion chance, no way, no how, zilch..... THAT is utter arrogance and stupidity. Despite my user name, I am actually a pretty intelligent person, but I totally realize that there are millions of people who are a whole lot smarter than me or any of you that are absolutely sure a God exists. There are also millions of really smart people out there who are absolutely sure no God exists. One of these groups is right, and one is wrong. For me (or anyone) to totally rule out either one being right is ignorant.

And as for the teapot thing.... I realize that you are trying to make it appear that you are comparing apples to apples, when in truth you and I both know that the comparison is closer to that of apples to cinder blocks..... ie little relevance or comparison. I would submit to you that if in fact billions of people, including many scholars and such, actually believed that there was an orbiting teapot out there, then this discussion may be relevant. But the teapot you speak of is simply a ploy by non-believers to distract from reasonable discussions. You can continue to bring it up all you want but we all know it is simply foolish and irrelevant.

10/10/2009 12:35:52 PM

Quote :

"What I can say is, although I do not necessarily agree with all these people, for me, one person in a world of billions, to claim that there is absolutely no possible way that they are right, not a 1 in a zillion chance, no way, no how, zilch..... THAT is utter arrogance and stupidity."

And no one is saying that there's absolutely no possible way that they are right. There isn't any reason to believe they are right, though. Do you make the distinction between the two positions?

Quote :

"Despite my user name, I am actually a pretty intelligent person, but I totally realize that there are millions of people who are a whole lot smarter than me or any of you that are absolutely sure a God exists."

If they're claiming to be absolutely sure of anything, they haven't thought about it very much.

Quote :

"There are also millions of really smart people out there who are absolutely sure no God exists."

I'm not convinced that there's that many of these people out there, but whatever. The same applies.

Quote :

"I would submit to you that if in fact billions of people, including many scholars and such, actually believed that there was an orbiting teapot out there, then this discussion may be relevant."

In other words, if a lot of people believe something incredibly stupid, that makes it not incredibly stupid. Strength in numbers, right? They can't all be wrong, can they? Come on...that's not a reason to believe something, it's a way for people to rationalize their beliefs.

Quote :

"But the teapot you speak of is simply a ploy by non-believers to distract from reasonable discussions."

A discussion of the existence of God isn't that reasonable of a discussion. We have absolutely no way of knowing anything about it, so it's impossible to make any claims about it supported by evidence. Anything you could possibly say about God is pure speculation, and not based on reality.

To recap: a smart person believing something is not a reason to believe it. You have the smart person explain it, so your brain can grasp the concept, and then you either believe it or don't believe it. You don't simply accept something a "smart person" says on faith without verifying it. Furthermore, billions of people believing something isn't a reason to believe it either.

10/10/2009 1:11:59 PM

I always thought an atheist was someone who believed there was no God.... otherwise their an agnostic. If I am incorrect on this point then I don't have much more to contribute to this discussion.

10/10/2009 3:24:14 PM

Quote :

"I would submit to you that if in fact billions of people, including many scholars and such, actually believed that there was an orbiting teapot out there, then this discussion may be relevant."

But that's the whole point. It's only obviously ridiculous to you because no one believes. Let me say it again: because there was no historical accident that created a loyal following and detailed mythology of the teapot, we can easily see that it's the ridiculous.

Strength in numbers is such a shitty reason for believing in anything. Do we really need to drag out the thousands of examples of things that are now known to be false that everybody used to believe?

Quote :

"I always thought an atheist was someone who believed there was no God.... otherwise their an agnostic. If I am incorrect on this point then I don't have much more to contribute to this discussion."

As 14 pages of discussion bear witness, the definitions are not so clear cut.

10/10/2009 4:47:20 PM

^^ agnosticism is a subset of atheism.

10/10/2009 9:13:59 PM

Just saw this posted in a chit chat thread & it made me It wont really help with advancing the defining lines or overlaps between agnosticism & atheism, but then again how much does exacting that distinction have to do with the original topic to begin with?

10/10/2009 9:51:42 PM

^ ha, there’s a lot of hilarious comics on that website…

I like this one too:
http://russellsteapot.com/comics/2007/Dra-Til-Helvete.html

what about Norway?

This idea occurred to me recently too… it’s like they’re reading my mind :
http://russellsteapot.com/comics/2007/blowing-gabriels-horn.html

[Edited on October 10, 2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason : ]

10/10/2009 10:24:41 PM

Quote :

"on TWW, I'll argue for the sake of argument and defending my position, even if that means getting into the specifics of the religion."

Oh sure. More power to you. Just remember that your real target is not what they believe but why they believe. It doesn't matter if the actual content is benevolent and intuitive or evil and nonsensical. They will rationalize all the details but they can't defend their foundation.

I'd invite you to read about "cargo cults", such as described by Dawkins (http://www.andrsib.com/dawkins/cargo.htm). (Not an endorsement of Dawkins in general btw.) Pacific Islanders interpreted actions of WWII crews in cargo drops as religious rituals asking the gods to send valuable supplies. I was particularly moved by this passage:

Quote :

"Nambas referred to his messiah familiarly as John, and claimed to speak regularly to him, by 'radio'. This ('radio belong John') consisted of an old woman with an electric wire around her waist who would fall into a trance and talk gibberish, which Nambas interpreted as the words of John Frum."

To me this says two things: One, the fact that most people are religious only proves that most people will believe anything. Two, if you can't convince people against something so easily refutable, what chance do you have against religions that are much harder to disprove or the existence of gods in general?

10/11/2009 10:22:35 AM

Anyone ever share a sleeping dream concurrently with someone else?

10/11/2009 10:37:55 AM

Not sure how that's relevant, but no, and I know enough to realize that any coincidence like that is anecdotal and usually soaked in confirmation bias.

10/11/2009 12:22:38 PM

Or soaked in LSD amirite

10/11/2009 12:46:03 PM

Quote :

"I'd respond to that shit by talking to HR about the conversation documenting it in some way that won't make people hate you so if they ever thought about firing you you could get them on religious discrimination."

More evidence of atheists being just as bad as uber-Christians...fucking victim mentality. Either that, or opportunism.

(unless, of course, you really do get fired for being an atheist, which I don't see as being a likely scenario).

10/11/2009 1:24:49 PM

Can be passed over for promotions, rasies, etc... though.

10/11/2009 2:00:17 PM

^^ Read a history book

10/11/2009 3:34:43 PM

i'm not saying not to document it to cover yourself if something like that does indeed happen.

i'm saying that playing that card just because something bad happened to you at work would be a bitch move unless you know damn well that it was because of your religious beliefs.

10/12/2009 1:06:01 AM

Do the atheists here feel depressed?

10/12/2009 1:31:59 AM

No, atheists are actually impervious to normal human emotion.

10/12/2009 6:51:43 AM

^^Nope, but I have in the past. It wasn't because of anything related to religion, though. You probably imagine atheists sitting around saying to themselves, "Man, this sucks...there's no God, my life is worthless. How will I ever live to the next day if I'm just going to be dead when I die, and not worship God in Heaven for all eternity? Err, I mean, go to hell?"

10/12/2009 8:43:22 AM

Quote :

"i'm not saying not to document it to cover yourself if something like that does indeed happen. i'm saying that playing that card just because something bad happened to you at work would be a bitch move unless you know damn well that it was because of your religious beliefs."

Except that his boss is obviously biased against atheism given that he even asked this question. If you answered honestly to this, you would easily be subject to discrimination that is definitely against the law.

Seeing as how atheists are the minority, you're not the least bit concerned about workplace discrimination? I don't share my religious (un)beliefs with my employer or any of my bosses for this very reason.

Oh and how hasn't this made it to soap box? Granted I bet we're getting a lot more responses here.

[Edited on October 12, 2009 at 9:11 AM. Reason : .]

10/12/2009 9:11:26 AM

haha I think the "HR department" = the boss' wife at SexPencil's job

10/12/2009 10:27:45 AM

it is

but they're also related to me somehow. soo yea, they wouldn't fire me over something like that.

10/12/2009 10:29:23 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTZONIl546c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCD2wigqFUk

10/12/2009 1:12:26 PM

^that second one made me lol

10/16/2009 12:40:10 PM

Haha, awesome.

Quote :

"Yeah, but Michelle, if you let them do that, then over time they will have the control, that's my point. If you don't stand up and fight for it, it might just disappear. I'm talking about Christianity!"

10/16/2009 12:58:25 PM

They kind of have a point. My optimal situation would be for all the Abrahamic religions to be treated with the same legitimacy as the Greek Gods and Goddesses.

10/16/2009 1:03:24 PM

People don't actually really care about the existence of god, faith, and holy texts.

People care about making others agree with them. It's about control.

But would you really be happier if everyone else on this world (or in this thread) agreed with you?

14 pages? /facepalm

10/17/2009 1:12:28 PM

[Edited on October 17, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : .]

10/17/2009 1:12:28 PM

10/17/2009 1:29:01 PM

A PHENOMENON ON THE INTERNET. LULZ.

10/17/2009 5:30:33 PM

Quote :

"then over time they will have the control, that's my point."

That is the point, isn't it?

10/17/2009 5:41:19 PM

http://www.drdino.com/media-categories.php?c=seminars&v=10

Anyone who believes this shit should be fired out of a cannon into the sun.

10/20/2009 1:22:32 PM

where is the original of this? this is great but i need a higher res version.

10/20/2009 5:20:52 PM

never mind i found it

10/20/2009 5:29:29 PM

It could be at the URL on the top-right of the image...

10/20/2009 7:23:42 PM

Oh Dr. Dino...."Dinosaurs were just big lizards that lived with adam and eve before the flood came" what an asshole. no wonder he's in prison

10/20/2009 10:18:49 PM

Holy fucking shit!

I went to one of the lectures by that guy when I was growing up in Florida. Up until that point, my parents had told me dinosaur bones were put in the ground by Satan to spread doubt.

10/20/2009 11:10:05 PM

Quote :

"http://www.drdino.com/media-categories.php?c=seminars&v=10 Anyone who believes this shit should be fired out of a cannon into the sun."

Humans can't even think of reaching the sun with our current technology; maybe you should be appealing to a higher power.

10/21/2009 12:50:49 AM

If only this thread had remained a serious discussion on the emotional dynamics of admitting to one's religious parents/relatives that one does not subscribe to their religion, plus people retelling their experiences when they did just that... I might want to contribute something and ask some questions, then.

Instead it's degenerated into mostly theology, apologetics, debating, and some atheist circle-jerking about why a lot of chrsitians suck... bleh.


(^Completely irrelevant to the rest of my post: No one said they had to be alive upon reaching the sun, just that they be fired in its direction. If we can launch satellites and telescopes into space, we can launch a pod filled with person at the sun. DISCLAIMER: I do not support any proposed extermination of stupid people or religious people, regardless of whether or not the sun is involved.)

[Edited on October 21, 2009 at 3:23 AM. Reason : .]

10/21/2009 3:16:27 AM

I do.

And I disagree with the circle-jerking. There aren't enough Atheists to do that.

10/21/2009 8:33:31 AM

LOL I just watched the video that Supplanter embedded.

is it just me or did the blond woman totally miss the point of the "thou shalt not steal" sign? the thief tried to protect Christianity by violating the 10 Commandments

10/21/2009 6:22:00 PM

^yes she's a dumb fucking bitch

10/21/2009 9:32:54 PM

Yes, Gretchen Carlson is quite the moron.

10/22/2009 10:17:11 AM