you guys obviously don't know shit about basketball. We don't have the players to be running a 10 man rotation. Nobody else does that unless they're REAL deep. Don't make yourselves look any stupider.

1/4/2010 7:32:32 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4795521

Quote :

"KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- Tennessee coach Bruce Pearl says with four of his scholarship players suspended he'll have a rotation of six scholarship players and three walk-ons when the Volunteers (No. 15 ESPN/USA Today, No. 16 AP) face Charlotte this week."

I'm real dumb, so my math bad, but I tink 6+3 make 9?

1/4/2010 7:41:11 PM

^ :carl face: multiplied by infinity, yeah because we just lost 4 players in the middle of the season

^ so you think it's good coaching to have a 10 man rotation?

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:53 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:56 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2010 7:52:56 PM

How dumb can you be? Do I have to write a fucking book and put nice big pictures in it for you? I'm pointing out that the man only has 6 scholarship players, and rather than use a retarded 6 man rotation, he is using WALK ONS.

1/4/2010 8:01:24 PM

OKAY genius, I'm going to remember your stupid ass post and when Lowe is playing a 6-8 man rotation at the END of February instead of 10 you're going to look like a real stupid person. There is no reason for us to run a 10 man rotation, we don't run an uptempo anything.

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 8:13 PM. Reason : likely a 7-8 man rotation]

1/4/2010 8:07:06 PM

6 isn't enough for any team that plans on moving much at all, either on offense, defense, warm-ups...

8-9 is ideal since we WANT to run. We attempt to run more, but like Lowe says our players end up standing around too much.

1/4/2010 10:31:53 PM

Nothing Lowe ever does is wrong with 50% of the posters on this board....

So basically if we keep losing close it will be look Lowe got us there that close and our players couldn't finish it.

1/5/2010 2:18:27 AM

if it continues like it has then yes, the players aren't finishing. we lost this game because of a miracle and the players, including a 80% FT shooter, missing FTs. are you going to tell me seriously with a straight face that a D-1 coach doesn't know to practice FTs?

I'd have more of a problem with Lowe with the FTs if he had Josh Davis on the floor in the FT shooting situation, or an option besides Tracy Smith.

Only change I could see is Mays instead of either Javi or Degand, but the problem is that Degand was HUGE in us breaking the press, and yall didn't seem to want Mays handling the ball. That or maybe Degand inbounding to Wood, but again, That's not gonna break the press.

1/5/2010 3:10:23 AM

^^^ we only played 6 during Lowe's best worst year here. We better not be running a 9-10 man rotation at the end of the year or for much longer because that's fucking stupid and we'll get our asses kicked. Let the 5 best players play as much as possible and give them a blow with two other guys "who have worked hard in practice". I'm sorry that's where we're at right now as a program. In case you didn't realize we don't have McDonalds AA's lining the bench waiting to get minutes.

Lowe will likely figure this out by the end of February after plenty of ass kickings in the ACC and you all be singing his praises of how great a coach he is.

[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 11:18 AM. Reason : []

1/5/2010 11:12:25 AM

Quote :

"^ so you think it's good coaching to have a 10 man rotation?"

It can be. UNC when they won their first title under Roy had a bonafide 9 or 10 man rotation.

Felton
May
McCants
J.Williams
M.Williams
Noel
Terry
Scott
Thomas

All got significant minutes.


You need the players though.

Quote :

"8-9 is ideal since we WANT to run. We attempt to run more, but like Lowe says our players end up standing around too much."

That is kind of silly. You are what your play indicates you are. We are a slow tempo team. I mean for fuck's sake we've only scored 80 points ONCE and are not even averaging 70. It doesn't matter what you WANT to be, it matters what you ARE.

[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 11:24 AM. Reason : x]

1/5/2010 11:22:55 AM

So by this coach's 4th year, we're already resorting to going as slow as possible? I sure hope this recruiting class people are creamin their jeans over is worth it, or else I don't think I can take another worthless year of wishing and hoping for next year.

1/5/2010 1:14:08 PM

we're not really resorting to anything

we've played this way for a while

god i hope these kids are good

1/5/2010 1:25:35 PM

Herb realized that he couldn't run with the rest of the ACC

so he adopted the Princeton offense

then he went to a bunch of consecutive NCAAs

ATTN: Sid
Body: Princeton Offense
Salutation: Best wishes, Tim

1/5/2010 1:33:55 PM

heh. winning running the princeton offense? you know what that gets you at nc state...it gets the fans to circulate petitions asking for you to be fired at games, make FIRE _____ t-shirts, and complain so much that you eventually end up settling for a bad NBA coach after your previous coach leaves.

1/5/2010 2:35:11 PM

don't forget the Post-It Notes

1/5/2010 3:23:19 PM

Quote :

"we only played 6 during Lowe's best worst year here. We better not be running a 9-10 man rotation at the end of the year or for much longer because that's fucking stupid and we'll get our asses kicked. Let the 5 best players play as much as possible and give them a blow with two other guys "who have worked hard in practice". I'm sorry that's where we're at right now as a program. In case you didn't realize we don't have McDonalds AA's lining the bench waiting to get minutes."

We never intentionally, if ever, played only 6. Atsur, Fells, Grant, Costner, McCauley, Neiman, Horner, and Clark played in that years tourney victory against Duke. They were tired all the fucking time and fell apart at the end of games because of it. We lost the ACC Tourney that year because we didn't have more than 6 scholarship players. Guys like Darrell Davis saw time on the hardwood because Lowe just needed bodies to play so his starters can get some rest.

Ideally we want most of our starters to get about 30 minutes each. You don't wanna have to play Tracy Smith for 40+ minutes every game, and with a 6/7 man rotation you'd have to.

8-9 is ideal. You're either trolling or acting like an idiot. We have 12 guys on scholarship, we can find 8-9 guys who deserve to at least see enough time to let the starters catch a breather every now and then.

Ideal minutes played:
1 - Javi 30, Mays 10
2 - Degand 25, Williams/Mays 15
3 - Wood 30, Davis 10
4 - Horner 30, Howell/Painter 10
5 - Smith 35, Painter/Vandenberg 5

Play 8-9 men a night. Of course you only want Javi seeing 30 if he's not a human turnover machine that night, and you only want Degand out there if he'll hit FTs, and you only want Williams out there if he'll be aggressive for once...

1/5/2010 3:23:40 PM

Quote :

"Of course you only want Javi seeing 30 if he's not a human turnover machine that night"

I love Javi. as in, he's my favorite player since Engin.

but....when is he not extremely turnover prone? he's averaging 3.8 per game and has had 4 or more eight different times. he's had 6 or more three times.

1/5/2010 3:29:49 PM

Quote :

"You're either trolling or acting like an idiot."

no, not beebee!

1/5/2010 3:31:09 PM

Quote :

"but....when is he not extremely turnover prone? he's averaging 3.8 per game and has had 4 or more eight different times. he's had 6 or more three times."

Sometimes he has those games where he'll have like 8 assists and no turnovers. If he's only get a couple turnovers and none of them were real bonehead plays then we can go for the 30+ minutes for him so long as he's scoring, but when he has those 6 TO games like he did against Florida he needs some time on the bench with Sid bitching at him like he got.

1/5/2010 3:55:03 PM

Javi has had 3 games with 8 or more turnovers... This year he has already combined for 49 wolfpack turn overs in 13 games...

He's gonna have to lock it down...

[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 4:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/5/2010 4:03:32 PM

a wolfpack turnover sounds pretty delicious.

1/5/2010 4:06:39 PM

you're gonna get your fill of WP turn overs

1/5/2010 4:09:21 PM

Quote :

"8-9 is ideal. You're either trolling or acting like an idiot. We have 12 guys on scholarship, we can find 8-9 guys who deserve to at least see enough time to let the starters catch a breather every now and then."

So even you don't want Lowe to run a 10 man rotation like he's doing right now. For our team, you said you think 8-9 is ideal (while I think 7-8 is ideal). You're jus so eager to call someone a troll or an idiot you must have forgot that Lowe is running a 10 man rotation. He doesn't need to be doing that with this team.

Our basketball teams have a history of having chemistry issues under this coach. If you keep juggling the line up with 9-10 players in each game they aren't going to gel. There's no need to be runnng 9-10 players in and out of the line up when we aren't an uptempo team AT ALL.

And don't get me started on Lowe's first year, acting like we played a 9 man rotation. We didn't we played 7 for the majority of the year and it was Lowe's best year.



[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 4:27 PM. Reason : V AGAIN, please stop responding to my posts since you are clearly trolling me]

1/5/2010 4:22:53 PM

Quote :

"And don't get me started on Lowe's first year, acting like we played a 9 man rotation. We didn't we played 7 for the majority of the year and it was Lowe's best year."

and that had nothing to do w/ atsur? it was all due to the 7 man rotation?

1/5/2010 4:25:44 PM

Quote :

"Javi has had 3 games with 8 or more turnovers..."

please list those 3 games

i've checked four websites that show box scores: espn.com, cbssports.com, realtimerpi.com, and statsheet.com

they all list Javi's season high as 6, which has happened 3 times

1/5/2010 4:30:58 PM

^^ even better, when atsur went down we had to cut the rotation further simply because we had no one to replace him

fwiw I think Lowe is angling for a 8-9 man rotation this year. From what I can tell, he's already cut Painter and is having issues deciding what to do with Howell/Davis/Vandenberg. It's not that he wants to run a million guys out there, it's just that they all have different strengths and weaknesses and none of them have really set themselves apart (for all the hype about Davis he's still extremely raw offensively and may be the worst FT shooter on a team full of them).

The 3 headed PG is another issue. I'm sure if Javi could cut down on the TOs and Degand was more reliable Mays wouldn't play much.

1/5/2010 4:42:49 PM

Quote :

"So even you don't want Lowe to run a 10 man rotation like he's doing right now. For our team, you said you think 8-9 is ideal (while I think 7-8 is ideal). You're jus so eager to call someone a troll or an idiot you must have forgot that Lowe is running a 10 man rotation. He doesn't need to be doing that with this team. Our basketball teams have a history of having chemistry issues under this coach. If you keep juggling the line up with 9-10 players in each game they aren't going to gel. There's no need to be runnng 9-10 players in and out of the line up when we aren't an uptempo team AT ALL. And don't get me started on Lowe's first year, acting like we played a 9 man rotation. We didn't we played 7 for the majority of the year and it was Lowe's best year. "

Where did I say he played a 9 man rotation in his first year?

8-9 is ideal but as we all know games are far from ideal. Lowe played 10 men against Florida, one guy got 3 minutes (Davis) and one got 5 (Vandenberg) and we played 5 extra men and great defense all night. I don't have a problem with that. We weren't running guys in and out of the line-up, we had 2 guys get 40+ minutes and 3 others with 30+.

Quote :

"fwiw I think Lowe is angling for a 8-9 man rotation this year. From what I can tell, he's already cut Painter and is having issues deciding what to do with Howell/Davis/Vandenberg. It's not that he wants to run a million guys out there, it's just that they all have different strengths and weaknesses and none of them have really set themselves apart (for all the hype about Davis he's still extremely raw offensively and may be the worst FT shooter on a team full of them). The 3 headed PG is another issue. I'm sure if Javi could cut down on the TOs and Degand was more reliable Mays wouldn't play much."

On Howell/Davis/Vandenberg I think he knows what he wants to do. It's pretty clear that he wants Wood to log the most minutes at the 3. The only person he's subbing in for Wood right now is Davis. If Davis had a jumper he'd probably see about 10 minutes, but he saw 3 minutes at the 3 so Wood could get a breather since there's no one else he wants to put at the three. Howell seems to be more ready than Painter right now and it looks like he'll be spelling Horner at the 4. Problem comes that we have to play Vandenberg just because we can't play anyone else but him and Smith at the 5. Horner's too soft, and while Howell is a little larger than Smith he's got more of a face-up away from the basket game than Smith.

1/5/2010 4:47:53 PM

Optimally guys like Javi and Smith would play about 20-25 minutes per game...I say optimally, because optimally we'd beat the shit out of our opponents and play scrubs the last 10-12 minutes...but that doesn't always work out, and you have guys that get in foul trouble, and you have guys that are playing sloppy, and lots of other factors that make it almost impossible to say how many players we should have playing how many minutes with any certainty

1/5/2010 4:50:37 PM

Quote :

"8-9 is ideal but as we all know games are far from ideal. Lowe played 10 men against Florida, one guy got 3 minutes (Davis) and one got 5 (Vandenberg) and we played 5 extra men and great defense all night. I don't have a problem with that. We weren't running guys in and out of the line-up, we had 2 guys get 40+ minutes and 3 others with 30+."

looking at the 3 games prior to Florida, Lowe was played 13 players at Greensboro (Smith/Horner had 30 or more minutes), 11 players vs Winthrop (no player had 30 or more minutes) , 11 players at Arizona (no players had 30 or more minutes). Florida game was an OT game, ofcourse the minutes will be skewed.

Lowe has been running players IN and OUT of the line up with these rotations. We'll get our ass kicked in ACC play if it continues. We need to play the 5 best guys and try to get each of them 30+ minutes each and get them used to playing together so the team can gel. It's not rocket science.

[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 5:11 PM. Reason : []

1/5/2010 5:08:03 PM

I'm terrified of the thought that Lowe is going to put Enrico Kuofor and Kaycee Obi-Gwacham in the lineup against Clemson

1/5/2010 5:32:24 PM

We might be able to take some of this idealism to the nth next year.

1 - Harrow (25-30), Javi/Mays (10-15)
2 - Brown (25-30), Wood (10-15)
3 - Leslie (25-30), Wood (10-15)
4 - Howell (25-30), Painter/Cothron (10-15)
5 - Smith (30-35), Painter/Cothron/Vandenberg (5-10)

8-9 men playing each night, running our asses off

Quote :

"looking at the 3 games prior to Florida, Lowe was played 13 players at Greensboro (Smith/Horner had 30 or more minutes), 11 players vs Winthrop (no player had 30 or more minutes) , 11 players at Arizona (no players had 30 or more minutes)."

UNC-G was a blow out, and so was Winthrop. I would have been mad at him if he didn't try to get the younger guys minutes in those games because they need experience. Arizona we didn't have Tracy so Lowe was shifting shit around trying to find something that worked without him. In these early games he HAS to get the younger guys experience and try different line-ups to see how they work. Otherwise it hurts him in the long run. Most coaches play more players early in the season, especially when they have 5 freshmen.

1/5/2010 5:56:11 PM

Rules question: what if you in bound the ball, then the person who catches it launches it high out of bounds. When does the clock stop? Is this a legal play?

1/6/2010 2:53:56 AM

technical foul for throwing the ball into the stands

bad decision

1/6/2010 9:18:14 AM

Sid Lowe said that he wants a 9 man rotation on the radio so I guess we can stop flipping out about that now...

[Edited on January 6, 2010 at 10:01 AM. Reason : adfasdf]

1/6/2010 10:01:12 AM

but only fucking morons use more than 6 players in a game!

[Edited on January 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

1/6/2010 10:02:37 AM

^^I understand Lowe without having to hear his pressers

1/6/2010 11:08:18 AM

if you don't think javi will play more than 15 his senior year, you are sadly mistaking. If both don't start, harrow will be coming off the bench next year...

1/6/2010 11:11:16 AM

by the end of the year Harrow and Brown will be starting and Javi won't see more than 15, maybe 20 if Lowe wants to let him see some time at the 2. Personally, I don't wanna put a 5'11 PG at the 2 against a 6'5 2-guard

1/6/2010 11:20:27 AM

poor Javi

15 minutes (or less) per game as a senior and 2 year starter

1/6/2010 12:28:30 PM

Quote :

"looking at the 3 games prior to Florida, Lowe was played 13 players at Greensboro (Smith/Horner had 30 or more minutes), 11 players vs Winthrop (no player had 30 or more minutes)"

These are both cupcake teams that are perfect opportunities to give younger players valuable PT. It pays dividends down the stretch. Next.

Quote :

"11 players at Arizona (no players had 30 or more minutes)."

Which makes sense when you consider that Javi was injured (more minutes to Mays/Williams) and Tracy Smith was suspended (giving more minutes to Howell, Painter, and V-berg). Next.

Quote :

"Lowe has been running players IN and OUT of the line up with these rotations. We'll get our ass kicked in ACC play if it continues. We need to play the 5 best guys and try to get each of them 30+ minutes each and get them used to playing together so the team can gel. "

We've played one ACC game so far, so we don't have a definitive feel for what Lowe's rotation will look like.

Secondly, Smith, Javi, Horner, and Wood definitely deserve to be starters, BUT Smith can't do it all himself, Horner and Javi have been injured at times, and Wood is still a freshman that will no doubt make mistakes. There are legitimate reasons why Lowe hasn't simply stuck with these 4 guys primarily that you are glossing over.

Quote :

"It's not rocket science."

This is you problem - thinking that you know a damn thing about coaching college basketball. Stop. Just stop.

1/6/2010 12:34:21 PM

Quote :

"by the end of the year Harrow and Brown will be starting and Javi won't see more than 15, maybe 20 if Lowe wants to let him see some time at the 2. "

I don't see how you can say Javi will be reduced to 15 minutes a game. If he improves as much this offseason as he has the last two, he's going to be an all-conference PG.

Couldn't we start all three of our talented guards next year? Let Javi run point and let Harrow and Brown make plays on the wing. I know this would make us small as hell, but our quickness could offset it. Plus, it'd give us three guys who can create offense -- something we haven't had since I've been watching state. Harrow can take over full-time point duties next year.

JR Reynolds and Sean Singletary were both small guards who started and did well. Same thing with Chris Paul and Justin Gray. I think it could work.



[Edited on January 6, 2010 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

1/6/2010 1:16:15 PM

I would like the idea if Harrow and Javi weren't both small guards to begin with. That would be a FAST team though...

1/6/2010 2:40:53 PM

losing to likely the worst team in the ACC on our own court. Lowe did an excellent job of coaching, just had some bad luck. ALL of these ACC losses couldn't be an extension of the coach.

ACC record: 0-2

1/9/2010 1:59:26 PM

Up by 10 at home in the 2nd half and lose to a pathetic UVA team. No excuse for this one.

1/9/2010 2:05:40 PM

yea i dont give a shit what the reason is you cant lose this game already being 0-1 in the acc and having bullshit losses to florida and arizona. all lowe has to do this year it not embarrass us too much. he didnt lose to any low majors so we just need to finish with like 5+ acc wins and right now even that low expectation looks difficult

1/9/2010 2:07:23 PM

fire lowe

1/9/2010 2:07:38 PM

I just don't think firing a coach is the answer. Too many college and pro teams like to hit the reset button and start over. I think we should stick with Lowe and hope for the best.

1/9/2010 2:09:41 PM

stick with him until next year. if next year is like this year, get him out.

1/9/2010 2:13:57 PM

We played alright today, but could have done better on defense and practiced free throws more.

credibility. 62% right now

1/9/2010 2:14:50 PM

We'll probably finish 8th or 9th next year in the ACC and then hopefully we can rid ourselves of this GARBAGE.

1/9/2010 2:14:54 PM