^ We have what both houses ended up deciding on.

Imagine what it COULD be if congress tried to debug it instead of downgrading or trying to start from scratch.

12/6/2013 6:36:44 PM

^ It would be just as much of a disaster, just in different ways. He problem is twofold:

1) Design by committee doesn't produce quality products, especially not for something like health care which requires precision work rather than blunt tools.

2) The ACA as a whole does nothing to actually make health care affordable. It might (assuming they can ever get he damn thing off the ground) make health insurance affordable to a small segment of the population which did not previously have access to affordable insurance, but on the whole it will at best have no effect on healthcare costs and at worse, raise them considerably.

12/6/2013 6:56:58 PM

I don't understand how people keep ignoring Europe when it comes to healthcare. Like, OMG A GOOD SYSTEM WILL NEVER WORKKKKKK!

12/6/2013 7:45:51 PM

Which country? Because most of them are nothing at all like ACA.

12/6/2013 8:45:15 PM

Canada and Germany have systems that use private insurers I think.

12/7/2013 5:00:58 AM

Germany has private and government. Their government healthcare is kind of like our private system where they may charge you to pay percentages of a procedure if it is relatively expensive, but day to day visits and emergency care is free.

But their private healthcare only charges the minimum enrollment fee and then there are no extra charges at all. So, many families get the private plans for the kids and such in case anything happens.

12/7/2013 6:38:15 AM

Quote :

"Healthcare reform needed to happen. ACA was the best we could get. Once people realize it works then getting to a single-payer system will be possible. It might suck for our generation but at least we'll be able to throw it in the faces of everyone before and after us. Our generation is going to get fucked no matter what at this point. The ACA isn't going to make a huge difference. Anyone too poor to pay for insurance is getting subsidies anyway."

single payer is independent of healthcare cost reform. the individual mandate is stupid and poorly designed (probably on purpose) but the accountable care provisions have a real chance to do some good in both improving care and reducing costs.

12/7/2013 8:24:52 PM

Quote :

"Once people realize it works then getting to a single-payer system will be possible."

It works... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks for the laugh.

12/8/2013 3:49:20 PM

I'll admit, I haven't studied the details of the ACA, and I don't get too into the details of politics, because it's neither rational or logical and therefore it usually just pisses me off, but i'm sure because of the size and bureacracy of the whole thing, we won't really know if "works" until it's been implemented a few years.

So HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA at you acting like you know what you're talking about. Thanks for the laugh.

12/8/2013 3:57:29 PM

I can already tell you it doesn't work, because it tries to solve the problem of too much gov't interference with more gov't interference. It tries to solve the problem of a lack of price transparency by pushing more people to insurance. It tries to make insurance act like a group savings plan. You don't need a PhD in economics to understand that doubling down on the problem doesn't fix it.

12/8/2013 4:04:44 PM

when you put it that way, you make it sound so simple. it seems that obama and his henchmen would foresee that it will surely destroy america. unless that really has been his devious plan all along.....

12/8/2013 8:18:15 PM

^^
those problems would have been solved by loosening the private for plan requirements, and offering a public option.

12/8/2013 10:18:49 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdcNLBfeTis

12/9/2013 9:14:58 AM

zomg he shook hands with castro

12/10/2013 10:02:28 AM

Raul Castro

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-raul-castro-hand-at-mandela-service/?intcmp=latestnews

12/10/2013 10:24:45 AM

CAME TO POST http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-raul-castro-hand-at-mandela-service/?intcmp=latestnews

12/10/2013 1:35:21 PM

Obama taking selfies at a funeral. This man never ceases to amaze me.

12/10/2013 3:25:33 PM

it wasn't a "funeral"

Quote :

"The atmosphere inside Africa's largest stadium was celebratory, with people dancing, blowing "vuvuzela" plastic horns and singing songs from the anti-apartheid struggle as they honored the man who steered their country from white-minority rule to multi-racial democracy. "

12/10/2013 3:44:09 PM

if you should be mad about anything, be mad about the hypocrisy of Obama for continuing or escalating so many of the things that Mandela fought against while praising him.

Getting mad about a selfie is evidence to how much of a mindless sheep you are

12/10/2013 3:49:29 PM

Quote :

"Getting mad about a selfie is evidence to how much of a mindless sheep you are "

Pretty much. Seems like a pretty obvious non-issue.

12/10/2013 3:58:53 PM

http://www.smh.com.au/world/obamacastro-handshake--a-sign-of-mandelalike-reconciliation-20131211-hv579.html

Obama shake's Castro's hand.

I think this is awesome, and I hope more comes of it.

Maybe if Obama could reform our drone program, and take steps to address NSA spying, he could recover some of that approval loss.

12/10/2013 6:09:44 PM

it was Raul's hand. i think that's a pretty important distinction (not Fidel's)

12/10/2013 10:01:31 PM

Is it?

I thought Fidel was dead...

12/10/2013 10:10:12 PM

Quote :

"I can already tell you it doesn't work, because it tries to solve the problem of too much gov't interference with more gov't interference."

But ACA does it in a way you like, vouchers!

12/10/2013 10:14:37 PM

Quote :

"Maybe if Obama could reform our drone program, and take steps to address NSA spying, he could recover some of that approval loss."

I'm not sure what else you want with drones other than completely dismantling the program. The number of strikes have dropped to barely a trickle since it's peak in 2010/2011. They aren't doing any more of those signature strikes or "double taps" everyone hated either. At least not as far as I've heard. The NSA definitely needs more oversight and restrictions on domestic spying, but my reaction to that story hasn't changed since it first broke: what did you people think they were doing?

12/11/2013 12:11:52 PM

I don't really care about the handshake...it was at a celebration of a man who embraced peace and forgiveness and what not.

The bigger story here is the selfie...and not because Obama took one, but the classic reaction of his wife. A little window into the fact that the first family is just like anybody else. Very funny when Michelle switches seats with the POTUS.

[Edited on December 12, 2013 at 7:08 AM. Reason : of]

12/12/2013 7:08:17 AM

Is it truly a 'selfie' if someone else asks you to be in a picture with them?

If you bump into a celebrity and they agree to stand next to you for a picture, did they take a selfie?

12/12/2013 8:50:01 AM

Quote :

"The bigger story here is the selfie...and not because Obama took one, but the classic reaction of his wife. "

Big story? Have you seen the "classic reaction" that was taken a couple seconds earlier where she's facing obama and the others and laughing? And then shen turned and looked serious, and people conjecture that she was mad and jealous and ready to cat-fight.

12/12/2013 10:04:19 AM

If it were a man with that look on his face, no one would think twice. But because she's a woman, she needs to be always smiling and always happy.

12/12/2013 10:50:40 AM

the photographer has even explained that she wasn't mad, but even if she was its still not a newsworthy issue

but keep on being angry about things that Fox News tell you

[Edited on December 12, 2013 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ^ definitely some gender role issues playing into this story]

12/12/2013 11:00:18 AM

OMG POTUS SELFIE FUNERAL MICHELLE MAD NSA OBAMACARE OBAMAFONE

12/12/2013 12:48:20 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/bitchy-resting-face-funny-or-die_n_3186139.html

And you can't really capture someone's emotion from a fleeting image. She could have just sneezed or something.

12/12/2013 1:56:08 PM

Jesus Christ it was a fucking joke.

And I saw the news article on CNN, not Fox. None of this is noteworthy.

12/12/2013 8:29:26 PM

It would be so great if he ends up getting caught bwning the Danish PM. That would be plus a million points

12/13/2013 8:13:02 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/

I actually hadn't heard we has scaled back the drone program, but considering war is now as easy as pushing buttons at a joystick, I would be in favor of freezing the program until mistakes like this can't happen.

Considering we'll have robotic soldiers in a few years, we need a clear and tight policy on how these things can bee used, and there should be zero tolerance for mistakes.

When we massacre families at a wedding, we do way more damage than if 15 al-Qaeda had gone free.

12/13/2013 10:34:42 AM

We've been blowing up weddings long before Obama and drones. It seems like its a problem with intelligence gathering more than the actual technology used. Something about weddings seems to consistently confuse our intelligence analysts. Its disgusting but it wouldn't have made any difference whether it was a drone or not. If anything, munitions dropped by a fixed wing aircraft would have probably killed more people.

12/13/2013 10:42:56 AM

yeah we're gonna kill people with whatever we've got. getting rid of a tool isn't gonna get rid of the problem

12/13/2013 11:35:54 AM

We are not fighting a real war, we're fighting an ideology. We could literally kill every single Pakistani and still be fighting.

The tool itself, when misused, emboldens the ideology and is self defeating. It's inefficient at a rate >100%.

And in a practical sense, it does disembody killing and war, which should change our strategies about warfare.

None of this seems to be happening. Has our relationship with Pakistan improved? It seems the lives of Pakistanis too have become worse over the past few years.

12/13/2013 11:50:36 AM

I guess the way I look at it is, what's the alternative? If you believe that if we just completely stop all of these military actions in foreign countries then the threat would just go away, then ok, maybe that's what we should do. I think that's a pretty naive view. As you said, it's an ideology, and those don't change based on outside factors.

If you accept the fact that there are people and organizations who will continue trying to pull off attacks regardless of whether we leave the region entirely or not, then the question becomes what do we do about it? We're talking about stateless actors operating within countries where governments are either unwilling or incapable of controlling them.

One option was invasion, occupation, and nation building. Clearly that one hasn't worked. Iraq and Afghanistan are both cluster fucks beyond measure. The costs, both human and financial, far exceeded any possible gain from either of those endeavors. I think that's one thing we can all agree on, no more boots on the ground. So what are you left with?

Clinton tried cruise missiles and scattered air strikes, but those were largely ineffective. Drones, as imperfect as they are, offer an alternative to keep these rogue actors in check while limiting the financial cost and human collateral damage. There's going to still be mistakes, and innocent people will still die, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the all out devastation incurred by the invasions of the early 00s. You can't really argue with the results either. Since the drone campaign started, Al Qaeda and others have been basically paralyzed. They are too busy running for cover to actually plan anything substantial.

The next step is going to be diplomacy. The nuclear deal in Iran is a good start.

[Edited on December 13, 2013 at 12:24 PM. Reason : :]

12/13/2013 12:22:08 PM

Shrike, do you disagree with anything Obama has done?

12/13/2013 12:25:12 PM

Shrike, this is on Netflix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWnrk35qYMs

12/13/2013 12:36:31 PM

Quote :

"Shrike, do you disagree with anything Obama has done?"

He did a crap job negotiating the original stimulus package as well as selling it's successes the following summer. He was also entirely too conciliatory with Republicans his entire first term. The rollout of the ACA was a disaster, and again, poorly communicated to the American people. From an actual policy perspective though, no, not really, I think his intentions have been solid and he's done basically all he could given the obstruction in Washington.

^Watched it, and again, I ask, what's your alternative? You can bitch and moan all you want about the questionable legality and collateral damage of the drone/special ops war, but how else do you deal with the problem?

[Edited on December 13, 2013 at 12:46 PM. Reason : :]

12/13/2013 12:44:20 PM

not

12/13/2013 12:51:21 PM

If you're saying that we should just stop entirely, I disagree. If you think the process of deceleration/deescalation should begin, then I wholeheartedly agree, and would argue that's already been the case. All you have to do is look at the number of drone strikes and operations in 2013 vs 2010/2011.

12/13/2013 12:56:31 PM

we should stop fighting it, we should stop fighting any "war" against ideology. not fighting is the only way you can win.

[Edited on December 13, 2013 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2013 12:59:05 PM

Quote :

" guess the way I look at it is, what's the alternative? If you believe that if we just completely stop all of these military actions in foreign countries then the threat would just go away, then ok, maybe that's what we should do."

It wouldn't go away, but we'd be far better off than we are right now.

As it is, there's very little chance of the "enemy" wanting to negotiate with us, because we come off as heartless vicious monsters when we kill several generations of a family at a wedding, not rational actors.

I can't see how stopping the drone strikes could have ANY impact other than to boost our credibility, and work towards undermining the ideologies against us.

Quote :

" guess the way I look at it is, what's the alternative? If you believe that if we just completely stop all of these military actions in foreign countries then the threat would just go away, then ok, maybe that's what we should do."

I think we've been desensitized by the "axis of evil" nonsense (that Obama at least rhetorically hasn't been continuing) to think it's either us or them. But as the Syrian weapons issue has shown, there can be a more peaceful diplomatic solution, if we just ask.

But we don't have a basis to ask when continuing to slaughter innocent civilians in a war of ideologies. We can't criticize al-qaeda for being terrorist monsters when we seem like the terrorist monsters (in the eyes of the Pakistanis).

12/13/2013 6:26:00 PM

White House abandons U.S. servicemember captured in Iran. Bribes his family with $2.5 million tax free gift to keep quiet. Threatens Associated Press who helped Obama cover up the story for three years.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-faces-outcry-over-missing-cia-contractor/

12/14/2013 10:26:30 AM

So exactly how long do you think he would have lasted in Iran if we came out and identified him as a spy?

12/14/2013 10:48:19 AM

Iran already knew he was a spy, that's why they have him. It was not an approved mission, it was a rogue mission by analysts who were not supposed to be running ops. The government already gave the family a few million dollars to prevent a lawsuit.

12/14/2013 11:27:36 AM

I get the feeling that all CIA operations from this point forward will be "rogue" operations.

12/14/2013 6:53:10 PM