They’ve come down recently, but that could very likely be due to smoking bans and other tobacco restrictions being put in place in the meanwhile.

Lung cancer related deaths are also the only ones to rise significantly at anytime from the earlier part of the century to now, when medical technology was reducing the deaths from other cancers. The main difference is that the cigarette companies were blatantly deceiving people in that time span, and the addictive generational effects of smoking are only now starting to fade due to public diligence on the matter.

I understand the whole “personal rights” issue, but when you are talking about an addictive substance that wouldn’t have gained the prominence that is has without major corporations intentionally deceiving the public about their product, it’s more complicated of an issue than if its someone’s personal right to smoke cigarettes.

1/1/2010 2:22:55 PM

nm

[Edited on January 1, 2010 at 7:27 PM. Reason : nm]

1/1/2010 7:25:37 PM

Quote :

"cigarette companies were blatantly deceiving people in that time span"

yeah, people smoked because they didn't know it was bad for them. you're putting too much into other people's weakness to populist ideals and not enough in your own

1/1/2010 10:24:44 PM

800-662-7030

1/2/2010 6:48:00 PM

Quote :

"Many studies have been published in the health industry literature on the economic effect of smoke-free policies. The majority have found that there is no negative economic impact associated with bans and many findings that there may be a positive effect on local businesses.[52] A 2003 review of 97 such studies of the economic effects of a smoking ban on the hospitality industry found that the "best-designed" studies concluded that smoking bans did not harm businesses.[53]"

http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/content/full/57/6/3671

Quote :

"Clean indoor air laws are easily implemented, are well accepted by the public, reduce nonsmoker exposure to secondhand smoke, and contribute to a reduction in overall cigarette consumption. There are currently thousands of clean indoor air laws throughout the Unites States, and the majority of Americans live in areas where smoking is completely prohibited in workplaces, restaurants, or bars. The vast majority of scientific evidence indicates that there is no negative economic impact of clean indoor air policies, with many studies finding that there may be some positive effects on local businesses. This is despite the fact that tobacco industry-sponsored research has attempted to create fears to the contrary. Further progress in the diffusion of clean indoor air laws will depend on the continued documentation of the economic impact of clean indoor air laws, particularly within the hospitality industry. This article reviews the spread of clean indoor air laws, the effect on public health, and the scientific evidence of the economic impact of implementation of clean indoor air laws. "

http://dx.doi.org/10.1136%2Ftc.12.1.13
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12612356

Now sure, you can find some business-funded studies that say the opposite, but who would you trust? Up to you. Either way, it doesn't matter, because this fight is over.

Quote :

"how the fuck is this remotely constitutional?"

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6622034

Quote :

"A district court judge ruled today that the state has the right to ban smoking where it sees fit — a decision that dashed the efforts of an Adams County topless club to permit smoking by its patrons. "The public interest in protecting the health of non-smoking patrons from harm...is a legitimate exercise of the state's police powers," said District Judge Chris Melonakis Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6622034#ixzz0bYu43ZZe"

Even the legal teams of ban opponents know this and try to get the bans removed using technicalities, NOT the idea that banning smoking is itself unconstitutional:

Quote :

"The complaint filed Tuesday states that the statute "is impermissibly vague" about what conduct is criminalized and therefore violates the plaintiffs' constitutional right to due process."

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Dec-06-Wed-2006/news/11249794.html.

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 10:07 AM. Reason : .]

1/3/2010 10:00:12 AM

It was mighty nice last night at City Limits not having to deal with the stench of cigarette smoke. Kudos to the state legislature for passing this.

1/3/2010 10:41:16 AM

^
The only stench now is from the rotting corpse of Lady Liberty.

1/3/2010 11:28:14 AM

^hahahahahahhhaa

I VOTE FOR FREEDOM1

1/3/2010 11:31:23 AM

smoking kills. second-hand smoke kills.

Fuck you smokers. You think you should inherently be allowed to degrade the quality of my breathing air within an enclosed building. Are you really that much of an asshole? Haha. The day is mine!

1/3/2010 11:33:11 AM

have you read a single thing in this thread?

1/3/2010 11:33:48 AM

This bill is good for everyone.

Just think about how much money will be saved by not having to replace the air filters as often!!11

1/3/2010 11:34:06 AM

^^Fuck no. And I don't really have to.

The same people who are saying this bill won't last or this bill isn't good for business, are the same people who said the bill wouldn't pass. What now?

Banning smoking in bars/restaurants improves the quality of life for everyone. Again, that's everyone. Allowing smoking in bars/restaurants improves the quality of life for no one. And don't try to say that it improves the quality of life of smokers, because even if you choose to smoke, it is still harming you. Don't kid yourself.

I want to clarify that I have no problem with those who smoke. That is your choice. Just don't force your choice down my lungs and into the fabric of my clothing.

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

1/3/2010 11:42:00 AM

^No one forces you to go into a smoky bar or restaurant.

1/3/2010 12:10:29 PM

Quote :

"I want to clarify that I have no problem with those who smoke."

Quote :

"Fuck you smokers."

1/3/2010 12:12:18 PM

i don't smoke and i can't say i support that bill in the slightest. it's really fucking stupid and it should be left up to the owner of the business whether or not they allow smoking.

1/3/2010 12:33:54 PM

pretty weak trolling there BigLego

1/3/2010 12:36:56 PM

There is no scientific evidence that conclusively links smoking cigarettes to lung cancer.

It's only a theory. The number of people who smoke and die from lung cancer is only a small portion of lung cancer deaths.

1/3/2010 12:38:04 PM

I have to admit, it was nice going out and not smelling like a cigarette factory when I left the bar

BUT... I felt really bad for the people having to stand outside

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason : and I agree with BigEggo]

1/3/2010 12:39:19 PM

Quote :

"BUT... I felt really bad for the people having to stand outside"

You shouldn't, they didn't give a fuck that they made you smell like shit and inhale their arsenic for years.

1/3/2010 12:41:36 PM

^bingo.

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 12:43 PM. Reason : ^]

1/3/2010 12:43:35 PM

Quote :

"pretty weak trolling there BigLego"

weaksauce name calling, and weaksauce observation skills. i'm a libertarian so you think i'd be in any way support of the gov't saying restaurants and bars can't allow smoking if they [the business owner] want to?

1/3/2010 12:45:57 PM

^^

1/3/2010 12:46:59 PM

Quote :

"I have to admit, it was nice going out and not smelling like a cigarette factory when I left the bar"

1/3/2010 12:49:56 PM

Quote :

"weaksauce name calling, and weaksauce observation skills. i'm a libertarian so you think i'd be in any way support of the gov't saying restaurants and bars can't allow smoking if they [the business owner] want to?"

Either way, run along.

1/3/2010 12:53:11 PM

Quote :

"I have to admit, it was nice going out and not smelling like a cigarette factory when I left the bar"

You realize there were bars before this ban that didn't allow smoking? If you wanted a smoke free experience you should have picked a different bar.

1/3/2010 12:53:47 PM

Quote :

"pretty weak trolling there BigLego"

1/3/2010 12:56:16 PM

Congrats, you're only 15 pages and 3 threads late to this argument, which is why it looks like you're just trolling.

1/3/2010 12:56:23 PM

^^^ You realize that all bars now ban smoking, and that no one gives a shit about who did ban it before, because we can go anywhere and get our drank on smoke free?

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason : .]

1/3/2010 12:56:27 PM

Smokers could turn this into a positive when trying to bang our smoking hotties. It gives you something to bond over outside.

1/3/2010 12:56:28 PM

Quote :

"^^^ You realize that all bars now ban smoking, and that no one gives a shit about who did ban it before, because we can go anywhere and get our drank on smoke free?"

Enjoy the abuse of gov't power.

1/3/2010 12:58:40 PM

Quote :

"Congrats, you're only 15 pages and 3 threads late to this argument, which is why it looks like you're just trolling."

I've never made an attempt to hide my libertarianism, so if you really wanted to see if i was trolling just do some research kid.

1/3/2010 1:00:41 PM

Quote :

"No one forces you to go into a smoky bar or restaurant."

So my choices should be limited to about 5% of bars and restaurants because I don't want to wake up every morning reeking of smoke due to a few inconsiderate assholes? And oh by the way I'm supposed to be ok with the inconvenience of not being able to set foot in 95% of restaurants and bars but you can't deal with the "inconvenience" of having to walk 20 feet outside to smoke a cigarette? Cry me a river, this law is on the books and here to stay, suck it smokers

1/3/2010 1:02:23 PM

THE GOVERNMENT IS ABUSING ITS POWER BY TELLING ME I CANT LISTEN TO MY MUSIC TOO LOUD

THE GOVERNMENT IS ABUSING ITS POWER BY TELLING ME I CANT SPRAY MACE IN THE MALL

THE GOVERNMENT IS ABUSING ITS POWER BY TELLING ME I CANT SHOOT MY GUN INTO THE AIR ON NEW YEARS

THE GOVERNMENT IS ABUSING ITS POWER BY TELLING ME I CANT DRIVE ON SIDEWALKS

1/3/2010 1:02:36 PM

Ok, I'll get right on that. Should I start in the "doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about" or "too lame to care" section?

1/3/2010 1:03:05 PM

The gov't has no right to tell business owners they can't allow smoking within the walls of their establishment. I don't really care whether they encourage you to make it smoke-free by offering tax breaks or some shit, but to say they can't allow it at all is an abuse of gov't power.

1/3/2010 1:05:53 PM

This day has finally come!

1/3/2010 1:09:07 PM

Quote :

"The gov't has no right to tell business owners they can't allow smoking within the walls of their establishment. I don't really care whether they encourage you to make it smoke-free by offering tax breaks or some shit, but to say they can't allow it at all is an abuse of gov't power."

If the practice harms the people that enter the establishment, then it should be the governments concern. Just like there are regulations on every harmful chemical any industry uses. There is government mandated controls on where it is, how its handled, etc all with the purpose of decreasing harm to the public.

1/3/2010 1:14:20 PM

1/3/2010 1:15:40 PM

things i would do if i had money:

-open a modern day "speakeasy" only it'd allow smoking
-get lawyers and shit and sue the gov't if i was caught, win or lose the case, appeal everytime and take the case to the highest level
-???
-eventually get it overturned
-get a win for libertarianism.

Quote :

"If the practice harms the people that enter the establishment, then it should be the governments concern. Just like there are regulations on every harmful chemical any industry uses. There is government mandated controls on where it is, how its handled, etc all with the purpose of decreasing harm to the public."

The gov't should handle this much the same way they have handled smoking in the past, inform people of the risks but not ban.

1/3/2010 1:18:21 PM

this is awesome! should have happened so much sooner

1/3/2010 1:18:48 PM

it's nice to have dreams

1/3/2010 1:19:18 PM

things I would do if I had money:

- join a country club, smoke, and laugh at all the peasants fighting over this law

1/3/2010 1:19:57 PM

It's not really a fight anymore, the 80% of people that are non-smokers already won the fight now I'm just rubbing it in faces

1/3/2010 1:22:36 PM

I mean yeah I could have gone to places that didn't allow it, but I didn't care that much to not go to a place where people were smoking. I wasn't a fan of smelling like a cig factory afterwards, but as long as I had fun I didn't care that much.

I felt bad for the people because I never cared about people who smoked in bars to the point of wanting them to stand outside in the freezing cold.. Oh well, yall have fun arguing

1/3/2010 2:01:04 PM

Quote :

"pretty weak trolling there BigLego"

AngryOldMan = hooksaw EXPOSED?!?!?

Quote :

"Either way, run along."

AngryOldMan = Beardawg61 EXPOSED?!?!?

1/3/2010 2:07:37 PM

Quote :

"I mean yeah I could have gone to places that didn't allow it, but I didn't care that much to not go to a place where people were smoking. I wasn't a fan of smelling like a cig factory afterwards, but as long as I had fun I didn't care that much."

I never really cared about it because when I go out I usually have a good time, and when I'm in a good mood I don't let things so trivial bother me.

1/3/2010 2:22:19 PM

Quote :

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression. Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. I have no fear that the result of our experiment will be that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master. I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence. Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves. The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory."

1/3/2010 3:05:54 PM

my shirt still smells like saucer funk

1/3/2010 3:08:30 PM

I sat through some cold fucking weather at the Panthers game today so I think I can go outside to smoke at bars

Its still gay they put it into effect in the dead of winter, instead of a more favorable time of year like spring or fall where you can transition into very hot or cold weather

1/3/2010 6:47:50 PM

^ you have my deepest sympathies for your great hardship

haha, not really

1/3/2010 7:07:27 PM