Quote :

" Since they are both down I know I should be able to get them pretty small. Any help in this regard will be super helpful. Thanks! "

They come with compression sacks. Or at least both Sub-Kilos I own did.

For the money, I'm not sure why you just don't get the Sub-Kilo... rated to 20'F and only 26 ounces.

[Edited on May 19, 2011 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

5/19/2011 4:38:40 PM

Quote :

"Isn't two weekends memorial day? I imagine its gonna be crowded "

Perhaps. I would have thought that most folks would have gone to the beach since it's supposed to be warm. But I can see how the mountains, especially the popular destinations, might be swamped. We'll see.

^ they came with a stuff sack, but I know I should be able to compress them further to free up a bit more space. Mostly, I am trying to figure out how much space they take up. I may do the REI trick since I can assess the space allocation, return them and then buy cheaper online.

5/19/2011 4:50:45 PM

Mine came with a compression sack, not a stuff sack, that's why I was surprised.

The one that came with mine is the same exact size as the halo +40

Quote :

"7.5 x 15 inches (10L)"

I can tell you it compresses into about 8"x8", about half the size, same 750-fill down, just rated warmer.

For the halo +10 it says 9 x 20 (20L), my guess is it's around 10x10 or 10x12 compressed.

[Edited on May 19, 2011 at 9:20 PM. Reason : .]

5/19/2011 9:14:39 PM

I guess it is also worth asking if I should even fiddle with a compression sack or just a small stuff sack and if using a compression sack will damage the down filling in the bag even though I will be using the bag every night.

5/19/2011 11:41:09 PM

yeah if I had a nice down bag, I'd want it to take up as much space as possible! If you have to crush your beloved bag to the size of a cantaloupe to make it fit, you're bringing too much stuff!!

for clothes I used a "trash compactor bag." It's a heavy duty plastic bag. You put all your night time stuff that has to stay dry in the bag. Just cram everything in there. Then twist the top up, tie it off, and you have waterproof protection for your stuff. Most stuff sacks aren't waterproof, but Sea to Summit sells waterproof "dry sacks" that are a tad lighter. (the trash bag weighs 4 oz )

http://www.sunnysports.com/prod/STSLWDS.html?gclid=CLu98qK39qgCFdI32god1mFKRw

TheBullDoza used a rain cover at first, then in Maine we were fording a deep river and his pack got all wet ... including the stuff inside! Mine stayed dry cause it was in the bag. Of course there aren't any fords until Maine, but I don't like messing around with rain covers.

5/20/2011 7:32:58 AM

Quote :

"yeah if I had a nice down bag, I'd want it to take up as much space as possible! If you have to crush your beloved bag to the size of a cantaloupe to make it fit, you're bringing too much stuff!!"

this is dumb...there is no reason whatsoever NOT to make it take up less space...it's a down bag, for heaven's sake, one of the biggest advantages of a down bag is that it CAN be made so small and it's certainly not going to hurt it

personally, i use this on trips where wet might be an issue: http://www.rei.com/product/730882/sea-to-summit-event-compression-dry-sack

the 15L fits my down bag just fine and it only weighs 4.5oz...you might be able to do the 10L (3.5oz), but i don't know...anyway, using a 20% coupon makes it just over $27 and it's a worthwhile investment if you're ever once in a position where your bag would haven't gotten wet otherwise

5/20/2011 7:53:55 AM

Thank you both very very much for the assistance.

I think the last big controversy coming up is going to be clothing selection but I at least have a decent idea about those. I am leaning towards Capilene from what I've read/heard it should work well.

5/20/2011 10:20:54 AM

you guys just like splitting hairs don't you.

1) Who cares what people pack, seriously. Different people have different comfort levels backpacking.

2) Compression sacks DO NOT DAMAGE DOWN BAGS, just DO NOT STORE them in the compression bag, this is why they come with a large cotton bag for when you're not packing with it. One of down bags largest advantages is it's small size. There's no reason not to compress it unless you like extra bulk. Whether you compress it on trips or not is not the biggest factor. The down will naturally settle over time with use no matter what.

3) Rain covers were never intended for fording rivers, it should be obvious why his pack got when and yours didn't when you use a trash bag. Any good rain cover has a drain hole in the bottom to allow any water to drain out in case it gets in from the back. Using a rain cover like a waterproof bag is just silly, it's not designed for it.

A couple small 13gal kitchen trash bags are pretty much one of my top 10 essentials. For packing junk out, and for make-shift waterproof stuff sacks to keep an extra pair of dry clothing in, for make-shift gaiters, though I keep all my electronics, camera gear, and 10 essentials in a dry sack.

[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 10:26 AM. Reason : .]

5/20/2011 10:23:42 AM

^^I don't own any Capilene, but everyone I know who does seems to love the stuff. If you don't already have underwear picked out I highly recommend ExOfficio boxer briefs. They're sort of expensive, but worth every penny imo.

On sleeping bags: There's certainly nothing wrong with a two bag plan, but you may want to consider just getting a quality, lightweight, 20 degree down bag along with a silk liner. You're almost certainly never going to actually *need* a 10 degree bag on your hike and the 20 can just be unzipped and used like a blanket when it gets warmer. On nights when it's too hot for any sleeping bag, just the liner will do a pretty good job of keeping the bugs off.

5/20/2011 12:32:50 PM

^that's exactly what i do, 20' bag with silk liner for added warm and for summer.

5/20/2011 1:16:51 PM

I already have my sleeping bags. They are the two that I listed above. The next step was figuring out their compression volume for a proper sack. I have, however, contemplated a simple liner for the heat of summer.

I have not yet done any research on boxers. Thanks for the tip. Being boxer briefs though, do they cause chafing and are they snug enough to cause excess sweating/unpleasantness?

5/20/2011 1:32:37 PM

i have a single pair of those ridiculously expensive exofficio boxer briefs and can honestly say that the champion (C9) brand at are target are just as good and significantly cheaper at $8-9/pair

don't get me wrong, the exofficio briefs are great...just a comparatively bad value

also, i've never had a problem with chafing, riding up, or sweatiness (at least, no more sweatiness than can be reasonably expected and far less than any cotton or cotton-blend pair i've owned)

[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2011 1:58:31 PM

i have 3 pair of these - http://www.rei.com/product/795067/rei-boxers-mens

they are incredible for traveling and backpacking, very comfortable, easily washable and dry quick, wicking, flat seams, no chaffing... if i could wear them everyday i would, but they are expensive.

5/20/2011 2:10:17 PM

Thank you both for the recommendations. Clothes are my next giant hurdle to figure out. Mostly it comes down to what do I want to wear everyday for months on end and will they last. It should be fairly easy and not terribly pressing which is why I've put it off.

My next research project will be gaiters. Is there a brand or type to avoid? They seems fairly straightforward but I am always open to hearing what people have used/liked in the past. Thanks!

One more quick thing (please to not be starting a fuss), has anyone ever used the platypus gravity filtration system? Someone talked to me about at Trail Days and I can see the benefits of the lightness but right now the price seems a bit out there for two bags, a hose and a filter. It wouldn't be so bad had I already not bought a MSR SweetWater Water Purifier System with the idea of using my Nalgene bottle as well as the roll up Naglene water bags which look super useful and light weight. I don't mind carrying a pump especially for places where dipping a bag isn't an option. Yes, I've considered just carrying drops like Aquamira but it just becomes so damn expensive over the course of a thru-hike[citation needed].

5/20/2011 3:10:58 PM

Quote :

"2) Compression sacks DO NOT DAMAGE DOWN BAGS, just DO NOT STORE them in the compression bag, "

Leaving the bag compressed for 2/3 of the day for 6 months ... that's a long time. Sure you're taking it out every night but that's still a lot of cumulative crushing time. a nice down bags is $Texas so I'd do everything I could to make it last longer.

Also for the pack cover, he had his rain cover on cause it was also raining. He accidentally got his pack wet when the river turned out to be deeper than expected. Pack cover vs liner is a personal preference. The story was an example of when the liner turned out to be better. (you could fall while fording, or get spashed, or step into a hole, etc)

5/20/2011 3:46:38 PM

hah, it seems like you can start a fuss over anything in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I only used 3 sets of aquamira for the whole thing, maybe four. I treated most of my water, but I made plenty of judgment calls that never came back to bite me. Every single person I knew going sobo with a pump, which granted was a pretty small sample size, had it break or clog on at least one occasion. That said, it would be nice to have a filter sometimes, but I've never been hiking anywhere where I had to have one, and I don't really mind drinking floaties.

Was the person you talked to a platypus rep? If you're talking about this thing
http://www.backpacker.com/march-2011-gear-review-platypus-gravityworks-/gear/15192
it doesn't look like something I can imagine any thru-hiker wanting to mess with every time they wanted some water.

5/20/2011 3:54:25 PM

Not another one of these arguements

5/20/2011 3:55:06 PM

^^ Not a rep, but a guy who was hiking himself. He mentioned that a lot of water sources are down a slope off the trail so it's more efficient to carry back as much as you can in one go. My contention is if I am carrying one (or two) of the Nalgene roll up bags then I don't mind sitting at the stream for a bit to fill them up.

5/20/2011 4:02:06 PM

It's nice to have a bladder to fill up at camp so you don't have to go get water multiple times, but water sources on the AT are generally frequent enough that you don't need to be carrying more than a liter or two at a time. I carried 3 32oz powerade bottles and a bladder and I think I only used the bladder once outside of camp and most of the time I'd only fill up two of the bottles. I'm sure that thing works well for the guy, but it doesn't look like something I'd want to mess with on a thru-hike.

If you haven't gathered yet, by this thread alone, people get pretty attached to their gear and their way of doing things. I guess I may be guilty of this too, but I try not to be. You have to take advice on this stuff with a grain of salt and figure out what works for you.

5/20/2011 4:30:27 PM

Nerdchick assumes everyone is a thru-hiker, that's all. It's something somebody typically does once or twice. It's such a small percentage of backpacking and it is a completely different system of how to do things. It's like trying to compare camping to backpacking.

[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2011 6:01:57 PM

Quote :

"If you don't already have underwear picked out I highly recommend ExOfficio boxer briefs. They're sort of expensive, but worth every penny imo."

These are awesome. I have quite a few. They last quite a while too. The elastic is the first thing to go though. Just don't dry them in a dryer and you'll be fine.

^haha seriously.

Quote :

"Leaving the bag compressed for 2/3 of the day for 6 months ..."

As much as all of us would like to take that much time to hike some of us have jobs and can take week long trips at best.

5/20/2011 7:16:54 PM

Just for reference though, all of my inquiries are geared (yay puns) towards thru-hiking in 2013. Otherwise I'd just throw it all in my pack and haul it around without caring about weight or durability.

5/20/2011 7:21:18 PM

Quote :

"Nerdchick assumes everyone is a thru-hiker, that's all"

5/20/2011 7:38:50 PM

thru-hiking you say?

tarp, alcohol stove (soda can), trash bags. pretty much all stuff you can buy at walmart.

i'm just kidding... kind of. a lot of the thru-hiking gear is lightweight, cheap, and replaceable for good reason.

[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 8:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2011 8:21:43 PM

^ barefoot of course, to save weight

5/20/2011 8:30:39 PM

I'm with Nerdchick on the compression sack thing. I worked in outdoor retail for 10 years, and saw a few down bags come back from thru-hikes flatter than when they started from cranking the shit out of them with a compression sack. FWIW - I didn't use one on my thru-hike and it's still fine. YMMV. You're already going to be half the size of comparable synthetic, so why bother?

Screw carrying underwear on a thru-hike! I usually rip the liners out of whatever shorts I'm wearing. Ventilation is your friend. My favorite shorts as of late are Patagonia boardshorts. They dry fast as all hell, are a little longer, and no elastic to make your skin funky/wrinkly.

I didn't filter/treat anything for the last half of my SOBO, but you got to find your own peace with that. We used AquaMira for a fair amount of other hiking, though I just carry a small thing of bleach now when my wife comes along. Honestly, good sanitation of your pot, spoon, and hands will take care of 99% of things.

I've got some stuff on our site http://www.sourcetosea.net if you want to poke around. Feel free to PM as well.

5/20/2011 9:43:53 PM

I may just save the money and go with a waterproof stuff sack then. I appreciate your thoughts and will check out the site you posted when I get a chance.

I admire what Nerdchick does. It takes a tremendous fortitude and commitment to go ultralite and carry your gear essentially in a pillowcase. For me, I am striking a balance between very light and comfort/reliability. I will say this though. When I first read this thread way back when, she made a post about thru-hikers comparing to see who has the shortest toothbrush. At the time I thought that was a crazy notion and the idea of removing tags from clothing and cutting corners out of books was silly, but during the planning of this Hike that message has grown on me more and more. While I may not sacrifice a whole piece of gear, I will try and find every nook and cranny that I can to save on weight. I will now be cutting up my toothbrush but at the same time bringing my (also truncated) Reach flosser.

5/20/2011 10:10:04 PM

While I agree with Nerdchick about everything so far she's recommended in regards to thru-hiking, I would never suggest some of the same strategies to people getting started backpacking. It takes time for ultralight to grow on people. I didn't understand you were thru-hiking to begin with.

Heck a lot of thru-hikers where trail running shoes instead of boots. It takes a whole 'nother level to get that light and that in shape. Some hike 20-25 miles in a day and eat Snickers because they burn 5-6,000 calories a day. Thru-hiking is not normal backpacking. I guess my point is, I admire your effort seeking balance, it will suit you well, long after the thru-hike is over.

[Edited on May 20, 2011 at 11:49 PM. Reason : same thing.]

5/20/2011 11:40:32 PM

ANYTHING CAMPING/BACKPACKING EXCEPT THRU-HIKING

5/21/2011 12:36:30 AM

ANYTHING CAMPING/BACKPACKING/THRU-HIKING

Fixed that for you as it deserves its own recognition, that's what I'm trying to say. I really didn't catch on (or missed) that HockeyRoman was asking about thru-hiking specifically.

If I got asked about each of the three separately I'd give a different recommendation for each.

[Edited on May 21, 2011 at 1:30 AM. Reason : its not it's]

5/21/2011 1:27:59 AM

When I worked for the Forest Service in Colorado, we had to carry not only our own gear but also a share of the week's groceries. I carried a pack so heavy that I never set it on the ground during breaks for fear I couldn't pick it pack up again. But now I have seen the LIGHT! People think that to lighten your load you have to be crazy and miserable but that's not true! For me, light weight is MORE comfortable. It's improved my hiking experience by a million times. Some of my advice has been thru-hiking specific (like not compressing your sleeping bag) but anyone can lighten their load.

There are a lot of simple switches that can really add up. For example, instead of the inflatable Thermarest, use a foam sleeping pad. That can save more than a pound! (you'd be surprised how soft the forest floor is when you're not camping on a gravel square in a campground) And you can also leave stuff at home. Don't bring a bowl, just eat out of your cook pot. That's one less thing to clean!

And it compounds. If you have a lighter load, you can switch to a backpack that weighs a pound less. And if you have a light pack you don't need the ankle support from boots and can use running shoes. (if you think weight on your back matters ... think of your shoe, which you lift thousands of times a day!) They also dry off a lot faster.

5/21/2011 11:41:01 PM

That's all pretty standard stuff nowadays.

Maybe 5-10 years ago closed cell was lighter, but not today, you can get air mattresses that are just as light (14oz.) and pack into a 1-liter bottle size. There's no 1-lb. difference. The only benefit I can think of a closed-cell mattress is that you can use it for a tubular frame in ultralight (like go-lite) frameless packs. Eating out of the pot is pretty much standard as well... just look at the Jetboil, it was designed to be eaten/drank out of.

I agree with being light as possible, but it still depends entirely on each person's comfort level and weight. What's 10% of my body weight, isn't the same as 10% of yours. 20-25lb. pack is very comfortable to me, but could be heavy for someone lighter than me.

[Edited on May 22, 2011 at 3:15 AM. Reason : ,]

5/22/2011 3:14:19 AM

my inflatable thermarest pad weighs 14oz. i'd agree that eating out of the pot is pretty standard also. for warm weather camping, i also use a thermarest tech blanket instead of a full sleeping bag. i want the cold weather version but i just can't bring myself to pay $230something for a blanket. i have a rei sleeping bag that weighs just a couple ounces more & was $175.

5/22/2011 9:36:17 AM

As far as the clothes go, it's really not hard.

1.) Don't bring any cotton. Comfort is much more important than style. Buy at least a couple bright-colored shirts in case you ever need to be found by helicopter or something like that.

2.) Raid the REI clearance rack at the front of the store once a month, and arrive extra early on the yard sale days. (And use the 20% off coupon on the few expensive things you need like backpacks, down comforters, knives, etc.). Do this over the course of a year and you will have cheaply bought name-brand clothes that will last a long time for every weather condition.

5/22/2011 10:58:22 AM

We're going to be camping on Falls Lake over on Shinleaf. Anyone gone camping there before? It's been a few years since I've been camping so I figure Falls Lake is a good place to ease back into camping.

Also, any recommendations for camping with your dog? This will be the first time I've camped with a dog and want to make sure we do it right. Although I guess if we forget something the supermarket isn't very far from Falls Lake

5/22/2011 10:59:16 AM

I have a hunter orange, silnylon rain cover. Weighed damn near nothing and took up very little space. I'd go with that rather than a couple bright t-shirts as just a suggestion.

Depending on the weather you'll be experiencing, and how many days you'll be out, cotton is fine imho

I believe that out west, in the arid states, hiking in cotton may be preferable because it holds the moisture in and helps cool you down. Been so long since I've done any sort of camping out that way though.

One other nice thing about a foam pad compared to an inflatable pad is that you just dont have to baby it at all. Nothing will pop it and it takes no time to dry if it gets wet. This is the sleeping pad I'm getting for my next through hike 3.5 inches of bliss with an R-value that puts your mom in a coma.

http://www.rei.com/product/778152/rei-camp-bed-35-self-inflating-pad


If i'm going on short trips though where I know it wont be raining, then the thermarest is where it's at.

Also, has anyone heard of any sweet travel toilet seats?



[Edited on May 22, 2011 at 11:27 AM. Reason : s]

5/22/2011 11:17:04 AM

The therarest neo air is a slick nylon type fabric. It doesn't soak up water at all. You do have to be a little careful with it but I carry a repair kit (I would do that for any inflatable mat).

5/22/2011 2:16:46 PM

^^ lol ... THE BED!!!

and my ridgerest weighed 9oz ... it was 3/4 length though. (I'm short so I don't really need the full one)

5/22/2011 2:29:38 PM

i won't bring anything that's 100% cotton (really anything more than a 60/40 poly blend, and that's only if i'm desperate) on ANY trip that will have any significant amount of hiking

cotton blows and it's only barely better than nothing at all (and in some cases, worse)...it'll help prevent blisters/rashes/irritation as long as it doesn't get wet, so you're only really okay with cotton if you don't sweat and it's bone dry outside

poly blends, at least, will wick SOME of the moisture away from you skin, whereas cotton won't do it worth crap...if you need something for warmth, go wool

in regards to hiking/backpacking, cotton is only for those who can't afford (or refuse to spend money on) nicer materials and will USUALLY come to understand their mistake when it's too late to do anything about it

[Edited on May 22, 2011 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2011 2:53:09 PM

This thread is turning into a gear elitest thread. You think our parents had all these high-tech synthetics? They still managed to do the same if not more than anything I've ever done. If you can't cut it, don't blame it on your gear, this isn't Alaska

5/22/2011 3:20:27 PM

^ heh true.

Quote :

"We're going to be camping on Falls Lake over on Shinleaf. Anyone gone camping there before? It's been a few years since I've been camping so I figure Falls Lake is a good place to ease back into camping. Also, any recommendations for camping with your dog? This will be the first time I've camped with a dog and want to make sure we do it right. Although I guess if we forget something the supermarket isn't very far from Falls Lake "

5/22/2011 3:40:24 PM

Quote :

"This thread is turning into a gear elitest thread. You think our parents had all these high-tech synthetics? They still managed to do the same if not more than anything I've ever done. If you can't cut it, don't blame it on your gear, this isn't Alaska"

you don't have a valid point...because mine isn't that you CAN'T do general things without the "perfect" gear, it's that certain gear is superior...which is a fact, not an opinion

cotton is in every way but price an inferior product...it doesn't provide the moisture management (cooling) of synthetics or the warmth level of wool, and as such it doesn't protect your skin from irritation, blisters, or rashes as well as either of them...again, these are FACTS, not opinions

your comment about what our parents "managed" to do over what you've done is ridiculous because it is inarguable that these synthetics in conjunction with improvements in design have enabled folks to do the same things but more comfortably and efficiently...again, not an opinion, but a fact

by your logic, our parents were all a bunch of whining losers because they weren't wearing animal skins, walking around barefoot, and clubbing their meals to death before they ate them raw

Quote :

"Also, any recommendations for camping with your dog? This will be the first time I've camped with a dog and want to make sure we do it right."

i have a bike cable for our one dog that won't stick around...it's not a very long one (2 feet, maybe?) that i loop around a tree and then connect the ends (which are loops) with a carabiner which a rope is attached to...the bike cable, which is plastic-coated, won't bind up or wear out like a rope will, so she can (generally) move around the tree in circle without getting snagged...you can also get one of those 2-foot long screw stakes that you can put in the ground if the area allows for it

for backpacking/hiking, our dogs wear saddlebags and carry their own food and water...the one that has to be on a leash is walked with a gentle leader so she won't pull (actually, it's a different brand - holt, maybe? - that has a neoprene cushion around the nose so she won't rub it raw as she is wont to do)

also, we have collapsible bowls for their food and water because they can be stored in their saddle bags

[Edited on May 22, 2011 at 3:51 PM. Reason : i have never heard someone say cotton was anything but sucky by comparison]

5/22/2011 3:46:10 PM

Quote :

"Also, any recommendations for camping with your dog? This will be the first time I've camped with a dog and want to make sure we do it right. Although I guess if we forget something the supermarket isn't very far from Falls Lake "

just make sure you pack out or bury its poop!

5/22/2011 3:51:36 PM

^^ Any brand of saddlebag you recommend? I looked at some at Unleashed yesterday but their selection seemed so so. I'll probably just end up ordering from Amazon since I have a gift card. And good call on the tether. Eva's really good about sticking around but I don't like having her off-leash in unfamiliar situations. Sounds like a good way to keep from having to ghettorig a solution.

^ Most definitely. It pisses me off to no end that my neighbor lets his crappy dog poop all over our apartment property. It'd be hypocritical for me to pull the same stunt while camping

5/22/2011 3:54:43 PM

Also I don't know if you like to throw the frisbee, but a frisbee makes a great dog dish for water or food. So that's one less dog item to bring!

5/22/2011 4:14:46 PM

Quote :

"it's that certain gear is superior...which is a fact, not an opinion"

Quote :

"because it is inarguable that these synthetics in conjunction with improvements in design have enabled folks to do the same things but more comfortably and efficiently...again, not an opinion, but a fact"

those are actually both opinions - and not facts. the fact that you believe one piece of equipment is universally superior to another is your opinion. this is not an invitation for you to break out your heat indexes again

the only fact that i'm seeing is that people are more into gear collecting than actually experiencing the outdoors. stop worrying about the poly blend ratio, the R-values, and the BTUs of your stupid stoves. You're hiking in the most temperate climate on the face of the earth, you have zero reason to be putting such emphasis on the most "efficient" gear money can buy. i'm not saying I don't appreciate quality gear as much as the next guy, I'm just saying that when I go backpacking I'm going to get it done either way, with or without the latest and greatest gear and love every minute of it

5/22/2011 6:19:46 PM

Quote :

"the only fact that i'm seeing is that people are more into gear collecting than actually experiencing the outdoors. stop worrying about the poly blend ratio, the R-values, and the BTUs of your stupid stoves. You're hiking in the most temperate climate on the face of the earth, you have zero reason to be putting such emphasis on the most "efficient" gear money can buy. i'm not saying I don't appreciate quality gear as much as the next guy, I'm just saying that when I go backpacking I'm going to get it done either way, with or without the latest and greatest gear and love every minute of it "

lol,


I was going to post something along these lines earlier but didn't want to get all philosophical

I think we all recognize that gear is a personal choice, If you are packing with me I don't care what you bring as long as you don't ask me to carry any of it!

That being said this topic is something I have been thinking about recently. Taking a few steps back and asking myself, Do I really need this? Is what I have good enough? As the outdoor industry grows, and we get more choices of hi-tec gear I think its important to make sure I'm not cluttering up my experience

I remember when I was a kid our town had a really cool backpacking/outdoor store downtown that my dad and I used to go to all the time. It had all kinds of cool little backpacking gadgets that, looking back, were borderline knick-knacks. My dad ended up getting a bunch of them over time though, and him and some of the other people we used to pack with would compare notes on these knickknacks at camp. Its one of the reasons that his pack always weighed a shat ton (the other reason was he was covering my ass for whatever I forgot)

He was the classic cadillac backpacker. I'm thankful for it now because we were always comfortable, so I was never turned off from backpacking. I think that I'm just looking for a different experience now.

5/22/2011 6:51:45 PM

Quote :

"Any brand of saddlebag you recommend? I looked at some at Unleashed yesterday but their selection seemed so so. I'll probably just end up ordering from Amazon since I have a gift card."

i've tried REI brand and ollydog...the REI brand feels more substantial, but the ollydog fits one of my dogs better...the REI brand also has more space for the size (a medium REI brand is bigger space-wise than a medium ollydog)

i'd strongly suggest trying one out with your dog...it's taken trial and error to find the backpack that fits best (for us, anyway)

Quote :

"those are actually both opinions - and not facts. the fact that you believe one piece of equipment is universally superior to another is your opinion."

they're not opinions when taken in context...you know, as part of the whole of my statement...i noticed you conveniently forgot the rest, which, of course, was necessary if you were going to go off on your "our ancestors did without fancy schmancy things, you guys are losers for using shoes and shit!" rant

cotton is cheap and that is the ONLY thing going for it...when comparing items of similar quality: if you need cool, synthetic is universally superior; if you need warm, wool is universally superior...just like with everything, you can spend more money or less and you will likely get a quality that reflects the costs...if you want to argue these points, i encourage you to come up with some facts to the contrary...otherwise, i'm going to go with

Quote :

"the only fact that i'm seeing is that people are more into gear collecting than actually experiencing the outdoors."

who?

Quote :

"stop worrying about the poly blend ratio, the R-values, and the BTUs of your stupid stoves. You're hiking in the most temperate climate on the face of the earth, you have zero reason to be putting such emphasis on the most "efficient" gear money can buy."

i get that a person can go too far, but the construction, design, and quality of the stuff i'm buying are extremely relevant to my interests...i'm happy for you that you're content to buy shit as long as it's cheap, but some of us aren't that way

i find it HILARIOUS that you feel qualified to tell me where i hike...i've spent 2 weeks backpacking the fucking arctic, kid, and a week in the andes...want to see the pictures? they've been posted before and i'll be happy to post them again

Quote :

"i'm not saying I don't appreciate quality gear as much as the next guy, I'm just saying that when I go backpacking I'm going to get it done either way, with or without the latest and greatest gear and love every minute of it"

there hasn't been a SINGLE person (myself included) who has advised getting "the latest and greatest" gear or said that you can't "love every minute" of the trip without it

Quote :

"Taking a few steps back and asking myself, Do I really need this? Is what I have good enough? As the outdoor industry grows, and we get more choices of hi-tec gear I think its important to make sure I'm not cluttering up my experience"

i imagine most people already (or should) do this...there are some "gadgets" that are worth their weight in gold and some that only exist to point out how much money a person can spend...there is, however, a happy medium between backpacking like a hobo and dragging along a cargo mule to carry all your gear

there are also some things for which the argument can be made to spend more money...backpacking does NOT have to be an expensive hobby, but some planning and investment can allow a person to experience more with less stress and more comfort...and yeah, sometimes comfort costs money

[Edited on May 22, 2011 at 7:34 PM. Reason : dog packs]

5/22/2011 7:29:04 PM

mini espresso maker? better bring two, in case one breaks!

seriously though, for me the anticipation and excitement of buying or making gear is one of the best parts of any sport. I've even sewed my own gear before. I made the shelter and quilt that we used on the AT. It's just a fun way to get involved in your hobby even if you can't be on the trail all the time.

Even if it all goes out the window when you're outside, at least there's something you can control. I spent hours agonizing over ounces, only to end up carrying a full jar of Nutella because it's so damn tasty. (that's one of the advantages of light weight, you can afford a luxury or two because the rest of your load is so light)

5/22/2011 7:49:33 PM

Quote :

"i imagine most people already (or should) do this...there are some "gadgets" that are worth their weight in gold and some that only exist to point out how much money a person can spend...there is, however, a happy medium between backpacking like a hobo and dragging along a cargo mule to carry all your gear "

Yea I agree, like I said its a personal choice for each person. It depends totally on what they are looking for.

but how do some of you draw the line? what are some of the experiences that you people are looking for? I'm interested in hearing other's thoughts.


The other aspect of my experience I'm looking for is solitude. Anyone want to suggest some places to get away from it all that are within a weekend distance of Raleigh? Totally understandable if you aren't willing to divulge

Quote :

"This is my own oddly un-self-aware attitude I reported early in this book: how in the high mountains, somehow I always resented coming across another hiker. It was as if I were trying hard to sustain an illusion, and it had been burst by an unwelcome reality. What that reality was I would not consider; I just headed higher and tried to relocate my Eden. I wondered, in some remote valley, if my foot could have been the first to touch it (a foolish unlikelihood). Sinless Adams in imaginary paradises. "

This is one of my favorite quotes from Paradise Wild by David Oates (recommended) and sums up pretty well how I felt for the greater part of my life. I've grown out of this attitude (because it's a myth) but still prefer spots where I'm unlikely to see any crowds. I'm interested in other's thoughts on solitude and crowds as well.





sorry to take the thread in a philosophical direction but it might make for an interesting change up to the other things that have been discussed thus far.

5/22/2011 7:55:26 PM