CJW is a senior, but I hope Gottfried realizes how bad he is on defense. The radio guys last game did not. It's not fair to have CJW guarding guys who can easily beat him 1 on 1. Put him in a situation where he can succeed. Don't set him up for failure.

Hell, slide Leslie over to defend the 2. We can't have guys driving right by our perimeter players for dunks.

12/1/2011 12:21:59 AM

Flyin Ryan, your original comments were really harsh and flippantly harsh, like you don't even think twice about bashing the players, which is not a good quality to have. And I think Wood's a better player than you're giving him credit for. He's scrappy, and he plays hard, which indicates to me that he practices hard, but you're acting like he's some lazy jerk-off who just practices three pointers and free throws all day. I suspect that even when he's not making great plays, he's still impacting the play on the court positively for the most part. And the way you spoke about him so negatively suggests to me that you're not being particularly objective in your assessment right now. Plenty of people have criticized his defense and whatnot, but nobody has talked the type of trash that you did.

12/1/2011 12:43:18 AM

there are still so many positives from this game and this year that im not really upset about losing. dont get me wrong, i wish we would have won but thought we had an honest 50/50 chance of doing so.

painter is so much more improved over last year its night and day. he did take too many outside shots down the stretch but i like his confidence.

i disagree saying this game is all on howell. he didnt play well but the coaches should have realized that and played him a little less.

12/1/2011 12:44:59 AM

Game is definitely not on Howell. Same old perimeter defense problems and CJ Williams in particular. It shouldn't take 10 minutes for us to figure out how to defend the 3 every game.

We need to be prepared before the game starts. Know what to do on screens and communicate on defense. It has to be instinct. Indiana got several easy 3s against our zone because we didn't communicate when they ran a guy through it to the far corner. This is basic stuff.

12/1/2011 12:52:09 AM

this game isn't really on anyone; we're just not there yet.

12/1/2011 4:36:41 AM

Watched the game. thoughts:

1) Liked the hustle for the most part, havent seen that on a consistent basis since... ever? I cant remember the Jimmy V days.

2) Howell had a bad night, but its on the coaches for leaving him in if thats the case. Also, Im almost positive he cant dunk standing flat footed under the goal. I might have a better vertical than him and I ruptured one of my achilles tendons a 2 years ago.

3) Leslie is a blocking machine, but he needs to stop that top of the key crap, hes not hitting it. Maybe work out with Painter and figure out how the hell he got better at the 10-12 footer.

4) Johnson is a horrible 3 point shot, has he hit any so far this season? I thought that was supposed to he his thing. Wood needs some help spreading out the defense.

5) The refs hated Wood. (That'll show him for not playing for his home school!)

6) Brown is doing everything we hoped he would when we signed him.

7) Was the ball oiled last night? Ive never seen so many passes, etc just slip through peoples fingers.

8) Zeller is gonna be a damn good player in a year or two, glad he isnt in the ACC or even worse, with his brother at UNC-Cheat.

9) I like the fire from Coach Gott. I honestly thought he was gonna get T'd up after the crap flagrant on Wood. He was pissed and had multiple coaches pulling him back. Not to mention others trying to talk to the ref so he wouldnt give him the foul.

Tough game, tough loss, but we lose this one with out a doubt last year. We're gonna go through some growing pains, but its almost impossible to not see the positives in this team and coaching staff. They actually look like they know how to play basketball, refreshing.

12/1/2011 7:54:33 AM

You can nitpick a lot of things and makes lists/bullets of all the positives and negatives...but the bottom line is that we need to play better defense. Our offense will actually be something to be reckoned with this year. We have some shooters, we have a couple guys who can break down a defense off the dribble (well...kinda), we have a decent inside presence, we've got some good ball handlers, and we have some experience.

But we will struggle this year if we can't play decent defense. I'm optimistic that our coaches and team will improve in that aspect...but it's a huge issue.

12/1/2011 8:07:01 AM

definitely true. our help defense is completely non-existent

12/1/2011 8:33:22 AM

Yep, defense is the key. That was a concern about Gott coming in. Unfortunately, I don't think we will be good at defense this year. Our offensive scheme is easily above average, but the defensive scheme is nothing special. I'd bet that more passion was put into crafting our offense than defense.

Once we get those guards next year, and guys like Jaquan Raymond get some experience, I think we will have the back court talent to play good defense. It's possible to play better defense this year without a talent upgrade, but it all depends on what the coaches decide to emphasize.

12/1/2011 8:36:33 AM

my 2 cents...

I was saying the same thing about the good defense switch at halftime. It really threw Indiana off and kept us in position to get rebounds off Indiana misses, which got us back in the game early.

There's a few things that I didn't like.

1) No post presence. Absolutely NONE. Howell was terrible, but with his size and body he does NOT need to be drifting out 18ft from the bucket. I understand that maybe we were trying to open the dribble drive penetration for kickouts to Wood, but it hurts when you do not have a post player that can man up 1 v 1 and either draw fouls or put the ball in the bucket.

2) Setting up Painter so far away from the basket- Again, his reach is huge. He has confidence now from further away from the basket, but that needs to taper down a bit. He's shooting the ball too much from too far away, and that is one less big rebounding body down low on misses.

3) Rotation- I thought Gottfried did a good job working in Alex Johnson & rotating CJW a bit, but I honestly thought that Vandenberg would have been a huge asset to help deter Cody Zeller. At least he could suck up some rebounds

4) Leadership- we didn't have a true leader when it counted late in the game last night, and it showed as we faltered down the stretch. It's a young group, so that will come with time, but it can't be overlooked.

Just my two cents. I love the direction we're headed and the atmosphere was back to what the RBC center should ALWAYS be!!!

12/1/2011 8:48:38 AM

Quote :

"Once we get those guards next year, and guys like Jaquan Raymond get some experience transfer,"

That guy is never going to get any burn. He can't get PT this year...no way he gets on the court with Lewis and Purvis coming in.

Quote :

"3) Rotation- I thought Gottfried did a good job working in Alex Johnson & rotating CJW a bit, but I honestly thought that Vandenberg would have been a huge asset to help deter Cody Zeller. At least he could suck up some rebounds"

I thought I read somewhere that Vandy had a banged up shoulder. I'm sure he would have gotten some PT to match up against Zeller if he were available.

I would have liked to see De Thaey last night...especially when Wood fouled out. We needed another 3-point threat out there.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 8:50 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2011 8:48:44 AM

1) Foul shots. Started great, ended horribly. You hit more than what, 3 of the last 8(?), and it's likely a much different game
2) Winning battles at the post, seemed to get rare near the end
3) Hustle, simply got out hustled the last 4 minutes
4) Tired; guys looked done for those last few minutes
5) Rotation, see #4, should have rotated a little more earlier in the game and used some more bench players
6) Defense; quit allowing so many open shots and easy drives
7) Refs forcefully inserting themselves into the game for the last few minutes was horrible

oh, and I hate CJL's body language.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

12/1/2011 8:56:11 AM

Don't like this trend of posting dumb lists

12/1/2011 9:00:54 AM

Me neither, that's why I posted a smart list.

12/1/2011 9:05:16 AM

yeah what the fuck happened at the end.. i left durham and we were up by 5 got home after having our ass handed to us.

IN OUR HOUSE!.


WHAT THE HELL?

12/1/2011 9:40:42 AM

8) USE THE FUCKING BACKBOARD

12/1/2011 9:54:43 AM

Everyone is ragging on CJW for his defense. While he deserves some of it, that blow-by crossover followed by the dunk was outstanding. Very few players could guard that.

CJW does play good defense most of the time though - staying tight on his man, discouraging driving lanes, and gets a couple steals a game. He wouldn't get recognition for it by the media if he wasn't doing it well. Sometimes he can get caught behind a good screen and it looks like he's playing poor defense when his man gets open.

12/1/2011 10:30:27 AM

Quote :

"8) USE THE FUCKING BACKBOARD"

I was waiting for that

Weirdest criticism ever

12/1/2011 10:33:08 AM

BLAME BLAME BLAME

12/1/2011 10:33:42 AM

Learn-Fix-Move on.

12/1/2011 10:40:45 AM

UTILIZE THE BOUNCE PASS!

12/1/2011 10:42:05 AM

I would like see calvin to start. and TBDV and TDT getting pt, or else an epic shipment of bitching incoming.

12/1/2011 10:53:35 AM

Vandy is hurt IIRC

12/1/2011 10:57:00 AM

Quote :

"Harris will be a good player, but he's thinking too much out there right now. We need TDT to steal all of his minutes. Not sure why Harris got the nod over him tonight, but hopefully that changes soon. TDT hussles, rebounds, and supposedly shoots well. Not sure what Harris does well yet."

1.) Harris and TDT play different positions. Harris is a wing and TDT is a post.
2.) CJW got himself in foul trouble early and had to be subbed out. Our depth at wing sucks, but Harris is our best option. Raymond just isn't ready. Johnson can play wing, but I think coach likes to use him to back up Brown at PG.

Harris had a nice drive to the basket from the perimeter last night. He's also a decent defender because he has long arms and has some quickness for a 6'8" guy.

12/1/2011 10:58:30 AM

Quote :

"8) USE THE FUCKING BACKBOARD"

CJ Leslie used the backboard.











on a free throw.

12/1/2011 11:40:03 AM

Quote :

"your original comments were really harsh and flippantly harsh, like you don't even think twice about bashing the players, which is not a good quality to have. And I think Wood's a better player than you're giving him credit for. He's scrappy, and he plays hard, which indicates to me that he practices hard, but you're acting like he's some lazy jerk-off who just practices three pointers and free throws all day."

I'm not saying he's a lazy jerkoff because I'm not criticizing his work ethic. I have a good work ethic in sports I play, doesn't mean I'm good at them. I'm saying that he just doesn't seem to come across as basketball smart, that play last night exemplified it, his defense in general has always been lacking and it feels like he hasn't improved in now his third year.

And no, the two top schools in Indiana did not recruit him. In the case of Purdue it was because Wood was a worse player than the starters they had at the time and he'd've been a benchwarmer behind Moore and Hummel. IU at the time sucked and were going through the Kelvin Sampson crap but they didn't get him either. I don't know what Notre Dame was doing with Wood if anything. I grew up following the Indiana-style basketball system and it's where shooters and the jump shot reign supreme as opposed to the drive to the bucket system typical in our part in the country. Wood is your stereotypical Indiana-style shooter, but guys there still have to be able to do something besides that.

Quote :

"I suspect that even when he's not making great plays, he's still impacting the play on the court positively for the most part."

He stands on the perimeter and seldom moves off the ball to give our attack little help. Penetration-wise he's lacking because he's usually not quick enough to beat the guy guarding him. On the defensive end of the court he's a liability.

Quote :

"Plenty of people have criticized his defense and whatnot, but nobody has talked the type of trash that you did."

He's a starting basketball player in the ACC, it's not exactly putting a bullet in his face to say he needs to play smarter and do something besides shoot the ball.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM. Reason : /]

12/1/2011 12:57:03 PM

Quote :

" he just doesn't seem to come across as basketball smart "

Actually, he usually comes off as the smartest player on our team.

Quote :

"He stands on the perimeter and seldom moves off the ball to give our attack little help"

This is completely wrong. Maybe true under lowe ... maybe ... but certainly not in this offense.

12/1/2011 1:01:49 PM

Quote :

"Actually, he usually comes off as the smartest player on our team."

I'm not talking book smarts.

12/1/2011 1:10:29 PM

I'm not either. How many times, other than that foul last night, has Wood ever done anything that made you go DAMMIT SCOTT

Now think about every other player on our team.

12/1/2011 1:17:45 PM

Quote :

"CJ Leslie used the backboard."

haha, yes he did. now, if we can get painter, howell, and brown to learn to use it on short jumpers and layups, we'd have something. we've missed to many easy shots because players like this nothin but net bullshit.

12/1/2011 1:18:10 PM

I was shocked at how quickly wood can get his shot off. He also drained some contested attempts, too.

It's just frustrating to watch him nail these jumpers and then have us pass it for painter for a setup 15 footer. Why can't Wood take these?

12/1/2011 2:20:45 PM

I was thinking the same thing, but it's just part of the offensive rotation (IE: UCLA high post offense). Still frustrating.

I think next year, we put TJ Warren at the 4 spot. He'll make a living off that deep 2 point shot.

12/1/2011 2:25:21 PM

^^i think it has a lot to do with who has an open shot. painter has been hitting that this season, coach says he hits it in practice, andhe was hitting it at the begginning of the game. then he went cold.

12/1/2011 2:30:11 PM

It would be nice for Painter to throw in a pump fake occasionally. It's an immediate shot almost every time he touches the ball at that spot.

12/1/2011 2:43:54 PM

Quote :

"oh, and I hate CJL's body language."

I've seen a lot of people say this, going back to last year. His body language might not be the best...but he's playing hard this year. Can't deny that.

12/1/2011 2:55:56 PM

he's playing hard when he's playing well. he breaks down like a little kid sometimes though.

12/1/2011 3:08:18 PM

^this.

he just quit on some plays that needed hustle... like a few loose ball situations; he went after some and just stood there for others.

12/1/2011 3:30:52 PM

I'll be more concerned if that doesn't continue to improve under MG's coaching.

He's made a lot of progress since last year, but it's not reasonable to expect a complete player in the 7 months MG's been here. Calvin will continue to regress into CJ at times, but I expect that to be rarer over time.

Same with the team as a whole. Still a work in progress, and if you're expecting a complete team that executes near-flawlessly by now, you're not a reasonable person.

12/1/2011 3:35:00 PM

CJL got a standing ovation for hustle last night. He's getting better, and no one is watched with a bigger microscope.

12/1/2011 3:37:17 PM

^agree

12/1/2011 5:08:55 PM

they got to play against john wall today

12/1/2011 5:12:04 PM

CJ Leslie was hustling his ass off last night. People care too much about how a person looks and not about what a person actually does. Even though Herb and TOB are total faggots, I never support(ed) any criticism of their demeanors. That's womanly bullshit. Judge a person on what they do, not how you think they should smile.

Our problem last night was not getting CJL the ball enough. Instead, we relied on chokers like Howell and Painter and we gave up an 18 point run. We were a much better team with Leslie in, Howell out, and Williams out.

[Edited on December 1, 2011 at 8:24 PM. Reason : ,.]

12/1/2011 8:24:12 PM

Quote :

"Even though Herb and TOB are total faggots, I never support(ed) any criticism of their demeanors."

TOB is 63 and would beat your ass.

Won't be but a few games this year and Gottfried will be a faggot too.

12/2/2011 12:43:24 AM

Oh no, TOB's dicksucker is angry

12/2/2011 2:12:24 AM

^ & ^^

it's like batman vs joker. popcorn ready.

FTR i agree with this " Instead, we relied on chokers like Howell and Painter and we gave up an 18 point run."

brown/cjleslie/wood seemed to never take a shot during that 'choke' period.

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 8:28 AM. Reason : ,]

12/2/2011 8:27:16 AM

^^How much have you cried since we finished 7-5?

I mean you had us all convinced we were going 3-9/4-8.

TOB is here to stay get the fuck over it. The SSS talked about him getting his players, well guess what since TOB got his players, he is 16-9 the last 2 seasons.

12/2/2011 9:11:43 AM

Why in the hell is TOB being talking about in a basketball game thread?

12/2/2011 9:21:00 AM

Because boozie

Sid in the TOB thread

TOB in the Indiana thread

Deal with it?

12/2/2011 9:23:23 AM

There is way too much criticism over a team that simply "isn't there yet". It's a learning curve folks, especially the defense because it's not like they were playing great defense before Gottfried got here. I for one, would rather see the change come in the offense first since you have to put points on the scoreboard and then work on defense second. It seems to me based on what I've seen on tv and heard on the radio during their games is that they are about getting to where they understand and are working the offense well enough that he should be able to start shifting focus to the defense.

He can't come in and fix everything at once.

And for the love of God, yes Howell had an off night, but he sure as shit knows it and he is the reason we won some of our earlier games.

Quote :

"4) Johnson is a horrible 3 point shot, has he hit any so far this season? I thought that was supposed to he his thing. Wood needs some help spreading out the defense."

Actually yes, in fact he hit a clutch three in one of our earlier games that helped seal a victory, just can't remember who it was--maybe Princeton? And no, we did not bring him in for his outside shooting. We brought him in because we had a scholly Gott didn't want to waste on the wrong freshman and we needed some senior experience and back up ball handler.

Vandy does indeed have a shoulder injury, that is why he did not play.

[Edited on December 2, 2011 at 9:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2011 9:41:46 AM

Quote :

"Why in the hell is TOB being talking about in a basketball game thread?"

Well he was at the game.....and just sat there in typically TOB fashion when shown on the jumbotron.

12/2/2011 9:46:02 AM