16

^ I hear that...finished up on Thursday. Feels great doesn't it?

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 1:17 PM. Reason : #]

5/7/2008 1:17:37 PM

How is the NC job market right now for new grads?

5/7/2008 8:01:40 PM

This is a good read if you are considering law school in NC.

http://www.popecenter.org/acrobat/Pope_LawSchool.pdf

5/7/2008 10:49:46 PM

^^^Feels damn awesome. I'm trying to get a job in/around Gainesville, but I'm also taking one class during the summer...Land Use. Hopefully I can find something good to do this summer anyway.

5/8/2008 12:27:57 AM

^^^ Average, much better than most places though.

5/9/2008 3:50:14 PM

^^ I hear that, I got a clerkship with a Senior Superior Court judge...the good thing is that his circuit for the summer is Charlotte and Hickory. Charlotte being one of the markets that supposedly is not over saturated with attorneys.

5/9/2008 9:55:32 PM

First: I got a job dealing with domestic matters next year outside of Charlotte.

Second, this is my manifesto after working in Career Services for a semester:

Most of my classmates have received low ball offers from mid size firms that typically pay decent. Benefits are also starting to be limited.

Aside from having a DA for Dean of CSO, most firms are not looking to expand due to financial issues. Even larger firms are not taking as many associates as they have in the past and even laying off people. I have heard many stories of firms looking to issue an offer, getting a bad tax return or quarterly report and not being able to expand. I have heard that even UNC grads that stay in state are not placing like they traditionally have.

Also, jobs that are open are typically workers compensation, which there is nothing wrong with that. However, I have heard there is little room to move out of WC into other areas to practice and that it typically is not lucrative as other practices. So, if your interest was elsewhere, you would be limited.

Both job fairs had record number of students applying to participate, however, very few received second interviews. Two firms went on to post their openings to alumni with 2-3 years experience after their initial interviews with students from all over the state.

Charlotte is a hard market to break into, which is most likely why it is not over saturated. Most mid size firms have gotten major egos about which schools they recruit from (when they have traditionally hired from Campbell). I think 3 or 4 of my classmates have jobs lined up for Charlotte, two with big firms, one going solo and myself at an 8 person shop.

I am graduating tomorrow, I should be drinking right now and not thinking about tax consequences!

[Edited on May 10, 2008 at 1:41 PM. Reason : k]

5/10/2008 1:40:53 PM

this whole thread makes me want to cry i wish i was graduating and not struggling through the last 2 exams of my first year!!!!! ahhhh.

5/10/2008 9:04:35 PM

Well I graduated May 3rd, HELLZ YES....I drank all week of graduation. Now I am in Bar Prep Class.

I got decent offer in Statesville, 30 mins north of Charlotte, once I pass the bar I will be taking cases in Iredell, Davie, and Mecklenburg County.

But just in case you misse dit....I Grraduated!!!!!


III

5/12/2008 11:45:22 PM

yay CONGRATS!!!

after wednesday i will hopefully become a 2L haha

5/12/2008 11:57:45 PM

Student Services had me worried shitless...looked online and saw that I had made a D- on Civ Pro II. I e-mailed a couple people, and come to find out, it was some kind of clerical error and I had made a B+. Finding next summer's position would have been hard with a D- on my transcript. Hope everyone else's grades were as promising!

5/26/2008 11:54:45 AM

^ Yeah, that would've freaked me out!! Good job on the B+ though. I'm still waiting on two of my grades even though I finished exams on April 22nd. I guess not all my professors were done by that time, and my professor for Environmental Law is also the mayor of Chapel Hill

[Edited on May 26, 2008 at 12:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/26/2008 12:16:09 PM

^^because of Property 1, i DO have a D- on my transcript, but i retook the course and it hasn't set me back at all so far.



yeah my grades weren't too bad this time around. a couple of unicorns (A's) and a couple of Charlies that balance out to a decent B average.


1 year left....

5/26/2008 1:21:56 PM

I actually had a grade lost for a paper class. It turned out that the Register just did not see it on the list and did not enter it. It took a while to figure out, but I had to re email my paper to the professor and the error was discovered.

It was a painful few hours.

Bar Bri sucks bad, but will pay off. We are in the middle of Secured Transactions and the guy is essentially reading from the outline.

Any Campbell Pre-L's feel free to contact me and I will help you out with questions and outlines.

5/27/2008 11:08:39 AM

just a whole bunch "drown yourself in a fucking lake" right here

5/27/2008 2:16:10 PM

i am TERRIFIED of my grades for this semester. but we won't get them probably until mid to late June i'm guessing. it took forever to get our first semester grades (like the beginning of feb). does everyone else take as long to get grades? do you get yours one at a time? they won't post ours until EVERYONE has submitted so even if some profs are done, we still can't know until everyone is done. i don't like that at all. but then again, maybe it is better to see the whole picture.

all i know is i had a 3.5 first semester and this semester i got the lowest grade in my property II class he send out our raw scores to us in an email. i guess technically i could have gotten the lowest grade in property I because he didn't send out the scores and i got a B-, which was my lowest grade. i'm hoping somehow the curve saves me this time, but i seriously doubt it. goodbye, good gpa

5/28/2008 12:35:16 AM

Any recent UNC law grads here??

5/28/2008 9:44:09 AM

^^ What school do you go to? NCCU grades on a C curve so it's extremely tough to maintain a GPA as high as a 3.5, even though the guy ranked number one in our class somehow managed a 3.9 first semester. Anyways, we get grades back one at a time as soon as they come in. Even this doesn't ensure we get them back quickly. As I mentioned a few posts up it's been over a month since I finished finals and I've only gotten two grades back.

5/28/2008 2:17:53 PM

Law Grad here...and yeah NCCU takes forever to get grades back, and the C curve is crucial. Although word is that they are slowly getting rid of C Curve. So GPAs should start to come up and be on par with other Law Schools.


III

By the way...Barbri is crucial...and studying for the Bar is worse...I am so tired of reading/studying/testing/reviewing....

5/28/2008 5:02:06 PM

Spring 3L year, we had all our grades within a week and a half. It took a month or so for other semesters.

I think the number 1 person in our class had a low-mid 90 average.

5/29/2008 9:40:43 AM

I go to Elon. Our GPAs are definitely definitely padded since its a new school. I don't really understand the grading yet because its been different every semester since the school started. I actually probably shouldn't get started on the things I don't understand about the school. Anyway, the number 1 person in our class first semester had a 3.9 and I think the average was around a 3.0 maybe a 3.1??? I have heard Central's curve is killer. I thought about transferring there, actually. Central or Wake but...I decided (I think) to stay @ Elon because of $$$.

5/29/2008 7:37:19 PM

ASL has a 2.5 curve for 1L courses, and a 2.667 curve for the remainder. Ended up with a couple As, couple Cs and a B...2.933 GPA...I probably made the semester dean's list, but I really want to get that GPA above a 3.0. Ohh well...I guess I the next two years to do it.

6/4/2008 1:24:34 PM

anyone go to Duke? my bf is going there, and actually started this summer... he's studying his ass off and I have seen him hardly any lately

6/4/2008 7:10:51 PM

^ better get used to that. sorry

6/4/2008 7:59:25 PM

Use to it? Better make it a lifestyle for the next couple years. Maybe his 3L year you can have something of a life, but then after he graduates and starts to study for the Bar, as I am now, you can expect to feel completely single.

Not to scare you, but as a BF/GF on the outside of law school you really have to let them go and study. My GF and I had a son my first year, and it was crucial trying to make time for them. I sacrificed studying to spend time with her and my son, and almost went home for bad grades. Law School is an investment that you really have to sacrifice life, family, and friends until you have a firm grip on the law. For some it takes years, for others a few months. Whatever it takes, give him time. If you try to push it, or ask if it really takes that much time, or is it really necessary, you will PISS THEM OFF. It may take hours to read a 2-3 page case and to really understand it.


III

6/5/2008 11:16:13 AM

Has anyone worked as a paid summer associate at a Charlotte law firm? Preferably a criminal defense firm. If not, anyone worked as a paid summer associate at a Raleigh law firm? Again, preferably a criminal defense firm. Thanks!

6/5/2008 2:55:43 PM

I worked as a paid intern last year in my dad's criminal defense firm in Raleigh. Did you have specific questions?

6/5/2008 5:22:10 PM

I'm really questioning where I go to school because my life is like no one else describes law school. I mean it sucks and its more work on a consistent basis than undergrad but...I still have SOMEWHAT of a life (not a lot, but a little bit of one). Not all has been sacrificed. But at the same time I honestly don't buy into a lot of the law school crapola so...I think that helps me maintain my sanity and do well. That, or my school is just insanely easy. Which could also be the case.

6/5/2008 8:23:58 PM

I am beginning to think that Law School was the worst mistake of my life.

6/5/2008 10:34:08 PM

As I stated above:

Quote :

"Law School is an investment that you really have to sacrifice life, family, and friends until you have a firm grip on the law. For some it takes years, for others a few months."

Different adjust/learn differently. I have some folks at Central who did exceedingly well and had a good life. The Majority of us gave up a life. I had too, b/c my grades were below the level that would allow me to stay in school. So I had to change and sacrifice. By the end of my 2L year I had a life. By 3L year I partied, hung out and chilled, and did very well. But for many others, they had to keep grinding to keep the status quo.

Consider it blessed if you are able to maintain some substance of a life. Just tell me it easy when you start to study for the Bar.

Seriously though, its great that you are doing well and having a life.


III

6/5/2008 10:39:54 PM

Quote :

"I am beginning to think that Law School was the worst mistake of my life."

I've said it in this thread before, and I'll say it again. By far one of the worst decisions I've ever made.

The market in the triangle is absolute shit, so get ready to bend over when you get those offers! (unless you're top 20 in your class and/or law review... and if you went to Central, law review doesn't even matter. I didn't go there, but I've met several folks who have along the way. One was class president and law review, and it's even been a huge struggle for him to get a decent job).

I think I'm going to order the book, "What else can I do with my JD?" --- FWIW, I've been licensed since 2004, practicing since 2005 and it still sucks my baws. Just not worth it, imo. An MBA is much more valuable.

6/5/2008 10:55:15 PM

yyyyea. i'm not in law school because i want to practice wahoooo. so yea i'm pretty much screwed on the job front regardless of how i look at it. i honestly wanted to drop out this year. but i really wanted a law degree (over an mba although i wish i had done a dual degree program) because i think the education and the degree itself will be useful to me even without practicing. just because i want to stay in the political arena. i'm still not sure it will have been worth it though. i mean i was top 20 in my class after the fall semester. we haven't gotten spring grades and i'm terrified they will be horrible. but top 20 doesn't mean anything at my school because it is new. and that is one of the reasons i thought law school may have been a mistake because i didn't think about the consequences (the bad ones) of attending a new school until i was already there. so that was pretty sweet. i dunno, i think i'm going to stick it out but not sure yet. we'll see how i'm feeling in august

and ^^ oops i guess i didn't read very thoroughly...sorrrrry

^ oh and they have that book in our law library. NO worries i looked at it within the first 2 weeks.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 10:15 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2008 10:14:36 PM

Is your school ABA accredited? If not, will it be by the time you are finished with school? I know a few people who went to College of Charleston, which was new at the time, and they found it to be a VASTLY different experience from those who went to an accredited school (namely Wake Forest).

I was accepted and made my deposit to Villanova to do the joint MBA/JD program (was also accepted at UConn -- but only at my Dad's request to apply there), but decided that my interests really lied in the corporate world so decided to fore go the JD part. I'm about to finish my MBA at UC-Davis this coming March. I'm thrilled with my decision because my heart just wasn't in to getting my JD... I just weighed everything together and decided to solely do the MBA.

^^ that was another consideration... I wanted to go to school in a new area (philly) but move back to NC after grad school... well that ain't gonna work getting a JD!

[Edited on June 9, 2008 at 12:02 AM. Reason : x]

6/9/2008 12:01:43 AM

Well, I am a firm believer that law firms like to recruit from the schools that the partners attended. Newer law schools do not have the alumni base or the reputation built up to help with placement.

Also, law firms have inflated self worth. A lot of firms in NC are trying to attract ivy league or top 10 schools. I encountered several no name law firms that say they "only recruit at Duke or UVA", but all their attorneys went to UNC/Wake and a few Campbell. They can recruit all they want, but obviously those kids are not accepting their offers.

I have heard of one Charlotte Law guy getting a good summer job.

6/9/2008 10:20:29 AM

Yea it just got accredited. And I realized that about the alumni base as soon as I got there; however, a large percentage of both classes have found summer law related jobs. It is hard for me to think of someone in my class off the top of my head that doesn't have some sort of internship---be it paid or unpaid. Although I'm not that worried anyway---like I said I chose the school that gave me the most $$$ and I hope to get the help increased a little this summer (fingers crossed). I also don't really care about practicing at all, so the whole law firm thing really doesn't freak me out. It would definitely freak me out if I was someone looking to make 6 figures out of Elon (there are definitely some of those kids in my school---slightly delusional). But I don't really fall into any of those categories. I've been applying for jobs and if I got a cool job over the summer I'd just say peace out to law school. It really is whatever to me. The biggest factor for choosing Elon was $$$ and proximity to friends/boyfriend/family. Which may be stupid, but I probably would have been even more unhappy at a school in new england; perhaps reputation would have been better, but I just did not want to be that isolated from the people I am close to. And again, I am like the 1 apathetic law school kid who could care less about reputation. My school got accredited this week and I was pretty underwhelmed. Which is why I'm not sure I should stick with it...I could really care less about a career practicing law. I still think I would like to get the degree but if I can get a job that I want without it, I guess I'd be better off taking that route.

6/9/2008 12:33:52 PM

I was really asking the 'summer associate position' questions, because I am starting to research which firms I would like to apply to for next summer. I wanted to know if anyone had worked for a firm and had went to a lower tiered school (Charleston, Charlotte, Elon, etc...). Any ideas of firms?

6/10/2008 10:24:14 PM

law school was the worst decision I have ever made.

6/11/2008 1:39:43 PM

^^ there are several people from Elon working at firms. Smith Moore; Brooks Pierce; Ward Black

those are just the places in Greensboro I can think of off the top of my head that took students from Elon. we also have a couple of people in raleigh/charlotte and a few in D.C. Some in the attny general's office in Raleigh as well (more public interest oriented).

6/11/2008 4:27:03 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/3054654/

6/17/2008 10:22:37 AM

6/17/2008 2:40:30 PM

^---- that's a national article. It depends on the market, some are good, some are bad. NC is good:

Charlotte.com
N.C. needs more attorneys
By JANE STANCILL


"North Carolina needs more lawyers, according to a report released Tuesday by the Pope Center for Higher Education Policy. Robust population growth and new businesses have increased the demand for lawyers in North Carolina, according to the study. The report says North Carolina has fewer private-sector lawyers per capita than any other state (758 people for each lawyer)."

6/19/2008 5:16:53 PM

you fucking idiots who want to suck directly at satan's teat deserve everything that's coming to you

normal pain and destitution is not nearly enough punishment for your sins

6/19/2008 10:19:00 PM

The research from the Pope Center is misleading. Yes, per capita, we do not have that many lawyers. However, firms are not hiring lawyers to keep up with the business.

They are using the new business to develop their own practices and paychecks, rather than bring on another mouth to feed.

A large part of my class is unemployed at the moment. Some have received offers of $30k a year (which wont pay your loans).

More people are choosing to go solo, however, there is no guarantee of paycheck at the end of the month or ever establishing a client base.

[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 10:30 AM. Reason : k]

[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 10:32 AM. Reason : k]

6/20/2008 10:27:25 AM

^ any tips for a rising 3L about to enter the job hunt?

6/20/2008 3:38:01 PM

Where do you want to end up living?

Start researching firms now. Some firms are allowing prospective associates to submit their resume via their website for consideration.

I had a family friend/attorney mention that they were expanding my second year of law school. They ended up hiring a lateral attorney and myself, but I was the only resume that they interviewed.

I know two people that just mailed their resume and a cover letter to smaller firms and end up with offers.

When I was interviewing, my boss explained about how they receive a lot of resumes, but don't really consider applicants that are not interested in living in the area or being part of the community. He said it was shocking how clear people were about living in CLT and commuting.

If you have a connection to the area where the firm is located, try to stress it. Firms do not want to be used as stepping stones for a few years and have the associate leave.

There are job fairs, but I find those to be a waste. Very few people heard from their interviews (from all the schools) and several of the firms ended up hiring laterally anyway.

6/21/2008 11:25:37 AM

The bulk of my family live in Raleigh, although I do have relatives in the Charlotte/Concord area. I don't really care so much where I live as long as I get a job after graduation. I seem to remember in past interviews that family ties to an area were good points to focus on. Thanks for the info and I'm sure myself and others would appreciate any other suggestions you and other recent graduates have

6/21/2008 3:23:19 PM

i still do not have my grades.

sigh.

i got out may 15th. i guess the semester technically didn't end until the 19th (or something).

the 2Ls (rising 3Ls) got theirs over 2 weeks ago (so rumor has it). wow, just wow.

6/29/2008 2:38:21 PM

got my grades today. they sucked. i don't know how this happened. top 20 to....not good.

i'm considering dropping out. i mean i didn't really even want to be there anyway and tried to drop out first semester. but after doing well i was convinced by many a people to stay in. but i don't even want to be a lawyer...i just thought the degree would help me as i am interested in politics/international affairs (ie: UN, amnesty, or government work, etc)

well now i've done horrible so...i think i should just quit. isn't there someone around here that dropped out? whoever they are....they are my hero.

6/30/2008 8:55:44 PM

what were your grades?

I always heard the last 2 years weren't as bad, might be worth finishing.

6/30/2008 9:03:03 PM

i dropped from a 3.5 which was top 20 in my class to almost a 3.2. which is hovering in the middle somewhere. but i'm at a stupid school. and i don't want to be a lawyer. and it is a lot of money.

on the other hand. i finished a year?

on the other hand i got nominated for a few more scholarships after first semester that i'll probably never get now.

on the other hand i bought a condo where i am going to school which kills me $$$ wise even more

but on a final hand, there is a whole new class of students coming in this fall that will need a place to stay, it is in a good location for ANYONE, and it has already gone up like 10,000 since i bought it a year ago.

6/30/2008 10:51:13 PM