Christian terrorism

Groups: KKK, Army of God, Concerned Christians (Americans in Israel), the Michigan militia group, Lambs of Christ, etc.

Four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort murdered. 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").

Oh and the Olympic Park Bomber too.

So don't try this crap about "Muslims are all evil terrorists, and all Christians are kind and good people". Roman Catholic by the way here before you bitch about me being atheist or w/e.

[Edited on August 20, 2010 at 11:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/20/2010 11:20:05 PM

Ron Paul just released an excellent statement on this issue.

Quote :

" “Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery? “It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.” “The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque. “Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.” “Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom? “In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it. “They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice. “The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems. “The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11. “Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction. “This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible. “There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred? “If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable. “The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer. “Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses. “Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam--the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia. “It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty. “The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservative’s aggressive wars. “The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam. “This is all about hate and Islamaphobia. “We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended. “Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.”"

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100820005843&newsLang=en

8/21/2010 12:54:49 PM

1630 incidents of trespassing

8/21/2010 1:12:51 PM

Are you prepared to allow the terrorist to win by becoming more like them? Yes or no?

1. hooksaw: Yes.

2. TreeTwista: Yes.

3. bigun20: Yes.

4. Kris: No.

5. theDuke866: No.

I invite others to please answer the question.

[Edited on August 21, 2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason : ]

8/21/2010 11:55:43 PM

Are you prepared to allow the terrorist to win by becoming more like them? Yes or no?

1. hooksaw: Yes.

2. TreeTwista: Yes.

3. bigun20: Yes.

4. Kris: No.

5. theDuke866: No.

6. BridgetSPK: No.

I invite others to please answer the question.

8/22/2010 12:09:48 AM

Last I checked, Terrorists don't own picket signs or lobby zoning boards. As such, I can't imagine anyone in this thread is anything like a terrorist.

8/22/2010 1:09:51 AM

Quote :

"Last I checked, Terrorists don't own picket signs or lobby zoning boards. As such, I can't imagine anyone in this thread is anything like a terrorist."

An interesting point.

8/22/2010 10:08:17 AM

Quote :

""I am nervous when people from outside our city come here and tell us how to live in our city," said Garth Silberstein, an Orthodox Jew from Crown Heights, who supports the project. "This has to do with racism. It has nothing to do with Ground Zero. It's dangerous to think that freedom of religion only applies to your religion." "

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_antiground_zero_mosque_protestors_descend_on_downtown_park51_site.html

8/22/2010 1:20:16 PM

Are you prepared to allow the terrorist to win by becoming more like them? Yes or no?

1. hooksaw: Yes.

2. TreeTwista: Yes.

3. bigun20: Yes.

4. Kris: No.

5. theDuke866: No.

6. BridgetSPK: No.

7. indy: No.

I invite others to please answer the question.

8/22/2010 1:40:50 PM

Quote :

"On 77 WABC radio on June 18, the talk radio host Aaron Klein asked him, “Do you believe that the State Department is correct in designating Hamas as a terrorist organization?” There ensued a long conversation with many interruptions, in which Mr. Abdul Rauf said: “Well, I’m not a politician. ... The issue of terrorism is a very complex question. ... I am a bridge builder. My work is ... I do not want to be placed nor will I accept a position where I am the target of one side or another. My attempt is to see a peace in Israel. ... Targeting of civilians is wrong. It’s a sin in our religion, whoever does it. ... I am a supporter of the State of Israel.” The Cordoba Initiative’s Web site elaborates: “Imam Feisal has always condemned terrorism (see his ... hundreds of speeches). Hamas is both a political movement and a terrorist organization. Hamas commits atrocious acts of terror. Imam Feisal has forcefully and consistently condemned all forms of terrorism, including those committed by Hamas, as un-Islamic."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/nyregion/22imamfacts.html

Are you prepared to allow the terrorists to win by becoming more like them? Yes or no?

1. hooksaw: Yes.

2. TreeTwista: Yes.

3. bigun20: Yes.

4. Kris: No.

5. theDuke866: No.

6. BridgetSPK: No.

7. indy: No.

8. Imam Feisal: No.

I invite others to please answer the question.

8/22/2010 4:02:49 PM

I can't believe they would desecrate the hallowed Ground Zero Burlington Coat Factory in such a manner!

8/22/2010 4:13:48 PM

They're more than great coats! By which I mean HALLOWED GROUND.

8/22/2010 4:19:13 PM

Burlington Coat Factory -> Trench Coat Mafia -> Columbine

OMG, the ghosts of Eric and Dylan are conspiring with the Imam

8/22/2010 4:30:20 PM

great video about whether or not Obama is a muslim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jQ67cdzDyI

8/22/2010 4:58:57 PM

Quote :

"New York mosque controversy worries Muslims overseas Some can't understand the fuss over a house of worship and how a democracy promoting religious freedom could even be having such a debate. Others are offended at the conflation of the 9/11 attacks with all Muslims."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-0823-mosque-muslim-react-20100823,0,7775670.story

8/22/2010 11:28:28 PM

I haven't participated in this thread yet, but add me to the number of those who aren't offended/don't think one type of religious center should get preference to another/if its private property then who are we to decide what they do with it as long as they stay within the standard zoning regulations & requirements for the area.

8/23/2010 3:05:47 AM

Quote :

"Some can't understand the fuss over a house of worship and how a democracy promoting religious freedom could even be having such a debate."

Count me in with the foreigners on that one. This whole argument is fundamentally absurd.

8/23/2010 5:01:26 AM

^

8/23/2010 10:08:27 AM

Quote :

"don't think one type of religious center should get preference to another/if its private property then who are we to decide what they do with it as long as they stay within the standard zoning regulations & requirements for the area."

That is the point. I suspect the zoning regulations and requirements for the area are going to change in the near future.

8/23/2010 10:14:42 AM

McDanger's List of Bigots

David Paterson
Harry Reid
Howard Dean
54 percent of Democrats polled
70 percent of independents polled
70 percent of Americans polled
Every conservative on TWW, in the world, and that ever existed
Anyone who disagrees with McDanger about the mosque
Some Muslims
Miss USA (also a Muslim--we obviously really hate them in this country[/sarcasm])*

Quote :

"I totally agree with President Obama with the statement on constitutional rights of freedom of religion. I also agree that it shouldn't be so close to the World Trade Center. We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion."

--Miss USA Rima Fakih



* http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/21/miss-usa-rima-fakih-not-behind-building-mosque-near-ground-zero/

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 11:33 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 11:31:22 AM

Just can it you old fucking failure

lol

8/23/2010 12:29:05 PM

1) build the mosque
2) get mosque owners to agree to participate in "stings"
3) surveil the area (with mosque owners participation and consent)
4) wait for hooksaw-types to vandalize, bomb or otherwise attack the mosque
5) capture it all on video and apprehend the perps
6) prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law
7) repeat as necessary

USA #1

8/23/2010 12:40:03 PM

Mosque protestors mistake a black dude with a dew-rag/skull cap on for a Muslim and try to confront him LOL

http://www.youtube.com/user/lefthandedart#p/a/u/0/EwaNRWMN-F4

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 12:47 PM. Reason : They don't even know who the enemy is, Just that he has brown skin]

8/23/2010 12:46:59 PM

Quote :

"They don't even know who the enemy is, Just that he has brown skin"

The one point upon which white conservatives stay consistent

8/23/2010 1:49:28 PM

Well I, for one, welcome our new tyranny-of-the-majority overlords.

8/23/2010 2:36:09 PM

Goddammit McDanger, I'm a white conservative. It's not enough that you had to clown on my major earlier? Jesus.

And anyway, just read about his statement earlier today:

Quote :

""If we look at the American Declaration of Independence, we see that it speaks of principles that comply with Islam," Rauf said, according to Bahraini Al Wasat editor-in-chief Mansoor Al-Jamri. "The U.S. Constitution protects our rights and what exists in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution is much better than what is found in many Islamic countries." Rauf is on his third trip to discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said earlier this month. "We have a long-term relationship with him," Crowley said. "His work on tolerance and religious diversity is well known, and he brings a moderate perspective to foreign audiences on what it's like to be a practicing Muslim in the United States.""

He prefers the Constitution to most Muslim governments and is considered by the State Dept. to be a useful asset in spreading moderate Islamic messages. He opposes terrorism. What a fucking monster.

8/23/2010 2:38:52 PM

Quote :

"Just can it you old fucking failure lol"

McDanger

Please stop name-calling and lying. Is that the best retort you could come up with? And you guys complain about me?! You're really slipping, man--but, then again, your post quality was never very good.

In any event, I think it's significant--given that some are accusing a great many Americans of hating Muslims--that we've allowed a Muslim woman to be named Miss USA and that she doesn't support the nauseatingly typical talking points of liberal enablers who support insensitive Muslims and even radicals.

Here it is again:

Quote :

"'I totally agree with President Obama with the statement on constitutional rights of freedom of religion. I also agree that it shouldn't be so close to the World Trade Center. We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion.' --Miss USA Rima Fakih http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/08/21/miss-usa-rima-fakih-not-behind-building-mosque-near-ground-zero/"

Furthermore--in this alleged country of hate--New York has over a hundred mosques in the five boroughs, the United States has thousands, and the American people elected a president whose father was Muslim. I'm sorry, but I don't think some of you are giving the United States of America nearly enough credit--but that's the usual, isn't it?

8/23/2010 4:11:57 PM

Seriously using Miss USA (which, by the way, hasn't been relevant in...decades?) in any capacity as support for...well, any point to be made in this thread? Really?

8/23/2010 4:32:12 PM

Hooksaw, you do realize that you bitching about name-calling is kind of ironic, seeing as you call everyone who disagrees with you a "dirty liberal", right?

8/23/2010 4:47:43 PM

Quote :

"PKSebben : Hooksaw, you do realize that you bitching about name-calling is kind of ironic, seeing as you call everyone who disagrees with you a "dirty liberal", right?"

I'm going to come out and say that I don't believe hooksaw has ever once called *anyone* a "dirty liberal"


EDIT: in fact, i'm certain of it. now YOU are the one engaging in pure malicious slander, by making up a complete lie.

as much as i agree with your assessment of christian terrorists, for you to engage so blatantly in personal attacks and spreading falsehoods, makes the rest of your postings suspect in the minds of others.

Personally, as a "dirty liberal", we don't need or want this kind of "help"







[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 5:02 PM. Reason : ]

8/23/2010 4:56:43 PM

hooksaw seems mad as fuck that nobody wants to listen to an old man that's accomplished literally nothing with his life

lol

8/23/2010 5:21:22 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry, but I don't think some of you are giving the United States of America nearly enough credit"

This is probably true. But I'm not going to give any credit to the loons marching around with signs that say "Sharia" on them to protest the Mosque. As you said, we've got thousands of the things and no sharia yet -- why do people seem to think that will change with this one?

And the point about the number of mosques was good. The reference to Miss USA, gorgeous though she may be, less so.

8/23/2010 6:38:49 PM

Dear lolumad Joe person,

The Christian terrorists was just a straight rip from wiki to do the same thing bigun20 did. Also, quotes from Hooksaw:

Quote :

"liberal enablers"

Quote :

"liberals seem to develop instantaneous amnesia"

Quote :

"liberal media liberal media liberal media liberal media liberal media"

Quote :

"Liberal incivility?! GASP!"

Quote :

"So much for the liberal cry about the. . . rule of law"

Quote :

"One example of liberal "tolerance.""

Quote :

"the liberals will throw their newfound star under the proverbial bus with a quickness!"

and I can go on for pages. He uses liberal as a hateful buzzword the same way others use conservative. I'm not here to "help" you and I don't give 2 shits about what you think of me, I'm just here to play devil's advocate to a bunch of angry retards.

[Edited on August 23, 2010 at 6:45 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2010 6:40:29 PM

Our Kristallnacht is coming.

8/23/2010 7:36:15 PM

they have the right to build it...

let them build it

it will be burned to the ground anyway...so who gives a damn

8/23/2010 9:51:27 PM

That seems...logical. . .

8/23/2010 10:25:33 PM

Quote :

"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and, I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, or, uh, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children"

-- Miss South Carolina Teen USA Caite Upton

8/23/2010 10:32:15 PM

Quote :

" In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it. They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice. The claim that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems. The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11. Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction."

--Rand Paul

Republicans are arguing AGAINST private property rights.

8/23/2010 10:49:28 PM

^ Did Rand or Ron say that? The second post on this page says it's Ron. I was just curious

8/23/2010 10:56:55 PM

"The claim that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue"

^Grabbing a chunk of the text and throwing it into a search engine with quotes brings up:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Ron-Paul-Decries-Mosque-Demagoguery-1891

Quote :

"Ron Paul Decries 'Mosque Demagoguery'"

http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2010/08/22/mosque-demagoguery-is-bipartisan/

Quote :

"by Rep. Ron Paul, August 23, 2010 "

http://www.ipatrix.com/3621/bipartisan-demagoguery/

Quote :

"Rep.Ron Paul might be cuckoo at times but"

Not many results, all of which seem to point to Ron.

But the media and online articles have certainly confused the two before.

8/23/2010 11:36:32 PM

I believe this sums up the past decade...

8/24/2010 12:46:12 AM

I think a soap box thread has run its course when "christian terrorism" and miss USA make an appearance on the same page.

8/24/2010 7:12:09 AM

Quote :

"1) build the mosque 2) get mosque owners to agree to participate in "stings" 3) surveil the area (with mosque owners participation and consent) 4) wait for hooksaw-types to vandalize, bomb or otherwise attack the mosque 5) capture it all on video and apprehend the perps 6) prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law 7) repeat as necessary USA #1"

Quote :

"Ansonian All American 5581 Posts user info edit post they have the right to build it... let them build it it will be burned to the ground anyway...so who gives a damn"

8/24/2010 9:45:00 AM

Quote :

"hooksaw seems mad as fuck that nobody wants to listen to an old man that's accomplished literally nothing with his life"

Again with this? I'll ask again: McDanger, what are your accomplishments?

8/24/2010 9:53:29 AM

^
What do his accomplishments, of lack thereof, have to do with his suggestion that you haven't accomplished anything?
Isn't that a form of ad hominem?

8/24/2010 10:04:26 AM

Quote :

"Again with this? I'll ask again: McDanger, what are your accomplishments?"

I'm a scientist. I develop and improve computational statistical methods to get better information from neuroimaging scans (both scientific and medical information). This includes both theoretical improvements and actually implementing those improvements (the implementations can be tricky as often the scans are too big to fit in conventional memory, or the algorithms we use might take a really long time depending on the dataset)

Those procedures actually end up being pretty good for automated reasoning as well, so I am involved (albeit at a more relaxed pace as the neuroscience is what earns my keep) in an AI project. That's more at the level of foundations, though; I have some of the math worked out, but no implementation at the moment. Workin' towards it though ... we may have more money soon and that'll make things easier as we may be able to pick up a programmer or two.

[Edited on August 24, 2010 at 10:48 AM. Reason : .]

8/24/2010 10:41:16 AM

holy shit you're a successful motherfucker

8/24/2010 10:50:21 AM

"I cured cancer"

TWW: WOW WELL CONGRATS

lol

8/24/2010 10:58:05 AM

^ Congrats. Can we get back to you not addressing my points and calling me names?

[Edited on August 24, 2010 at 11:07 AM. Reason : We don't need a reminder that you hold a very high opinion of yourself. ]

8/24/2010 11:06:48 AM

I don't hold a high opinion of myself, I just recognize the ridiculousness of an ex-prison guard turned shitty academic roleplaying O'Reilly vs. a bunch of 20-somethings

[Edited on August 24, 2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason : Believing you're pulling your weight while others aren't != high opinion of yourself. Kinda basic.]

8/24/2010 11:09:26 AM