Quote :

"Calls to remove the statue had come after the release of the Freeh report, which said Paterno and other university officials failed for more than a decade to protect children from sexual abuse at the hands of Jerry Sandusky, a former football assistant. Still, Burgan said, the flowers were “out of respect for Joe.” Burgan said he felt Paterno committed “no wrongdoing in the Sandusky situation.” The Freeh report’s assertion that Paterno had been aware of accusations of Sandusky in 1998 did not change Burgan’s mind. “No, no not at all,” Burgan said. “Because you don’t know what Paterno knew and when he knew it. And now that he’s gone, nobody will know. Whatever facts Louis Freeh has, or thinks he has, that’s up to him. “I mean, if there’s e-mails that come out, if there’s evidence, I’m a criminal justice major from Penn State, so I’d like to see it. I’d like to see the evidence and then I’ll make a determination at that time. But as it stands right now, we’ve always supported Joe Paterno.” Burgan drove off, but a steady stream of people continued to come to the statue. An older man stood next to it, and when was asked why he posed with Paterno, he said, “I was born and raised here; that’s the best coach around.” A family of five also posed for pictures, the children taking turns behind the camera."

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/12/at-paterno-statue-support-and-shock/

[Edited on July 12, 2012 at 10:19 PM. Reason : great parents, all of them]

7/12/2012 10:18:19 PM

^Cut the best line from the article:

In reference to Penn St. removing the statue:

Quote :

"By 4 p.m., with Burgan’s yellow flowers at the statue’s feet, Bill Zammarrelli posed for a photo with the statue. He graduated last December, and though he did not smile, he wanted to post a picture to Facebook to show his support for Paterno. He hoped it would not be his last picture with the statue. “If it is, I’ll definitely cut ties with Penn State,” he said. “I love Penn State, but if they do that, that would be the last straw for me.”"

Covering up child rape <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< taking down a statue.

[Edited on July 12, 2012 at 10:26 PM. Reason : -]

7/12/2012 10:25:39 PM

14 years of covering up child rape

gg Joe Pa

7/12/2012 11:35:00 PM

i don't know if I should feel bad for Jay Paterno for defending his dad in the sense of looking out for family, or just hate him for acting like a shady lawyer (redundant) by deflecting all the blame from his shitty rape-advocating father

7/13/2012 12:24:55 AM

14 years that we know of.

Sandusky did not suddenly become a pederast in 1998. He had decades of history with JoePa prior to that and was likely diddling little boys the whole time. If Paterno knew of at least two incidents starting in 1998 and not only neglected to take action, but actively worked to prevent action from being taken, I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to suspect that there may have been more priors that paterno came to find out about predating the 1998 event without a paper trail to prove it.

Every individual who was too cowardly to stop this shit is a waste of fucking human skin.

7/13/2012 10:32:27 AM

I think if I were a Penn State alum, I'd build a killdozer and remove the statue myself

7/13/2012 10:35:12 AM

I think its possible to become a pederast, maybe not overnight, but certainly over a period of several months or years. Sexual preference evolve. A lot of TWWers still don't realize they're gay yet.

7/13/2012 10:38:19 AM

Joe Pa is a fuck. I hope they take away his wins.

[Edited on July 13, 2012 at 10:41 AM. Reason : []

7/13/2012 10:40:36 AM

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_football/story/11321754/

Not sure I agree with the NCAA getting involved at this point. Thus far, this isn't a football team or NCAA issue; it is a legal issue with coaches and the school's admin. I'm all for taking out these sicks SOBs, but to punish the athletes who had nothing to do with this? The coaches involved are pretty much gone and their actions still don't amount to typical NCAA violations.

Also, Penn State alum/students/fans are delusional.

[Edited on July 17, 2012 at 10:12 AM. Reason : .]

7/17/2012 10:11:31 AM

no they really should shut down the football program.

7/17/2012 10:58:28 AM

no, the school/state should do that. not the NCAA.

NCAA would be way overstepping it's bounds doing that.

7/17/2012 10:59:54 AM

The NCAA has no bounds. That's bylaw #1.

7/17/2012 11:03:34 AM

please explain to me how the ncaa is overstepping its bounds by shutting down a football program as a result of criminal activity by the coaches.

that seems like exactly what the ncaa does to me.

7/17/2012 11:16:04 AM

The NCAA is there to enforce rules about amatuerism, eligibility, recruiting and the such.

Penn State did not break any of the NCAA's rules. People running Penn State broke actual laws, which are enforced by the state of Pennsylvania. That is who should and will punish those responsible.

Like I said, if Penn State or the Pennsylvania legislature wants to shut down Penn State football, they have every right to do so. But this is in no way an NCAA issue and they should stay the fuck out of it.

edit: the criminal activity was in no way related to football. that is why the NCAA has no right or reason to do anything. if a coach murdered someone, would you want them to shut the program down? what about getting a dwi? adultery?

[Edited on July 17, 2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

7/17/2012 11:25:25 AM

that's like arguing that you shouldn't be kicked out of your country club just b/c you're convicted of rape, b/c it's not in the country club's bylaws.

which, by the way, i'm sure that you haven't read the ncaa bylaws, and i'm sure that there's language in there that allows the ncaa to do whatever they want. and they should. they can't let people believe that they think football is more important than children. you know, aside from the whole concussion issue.

7/17/2012 11:30:01 AM

Quote :

"that is why the NCAA has no right"

Rights?

The NCAA can almost literally do whatever the fuck it wants. There is no oversight.

7/17/2012 11:31:04 AM

it's also no one's right to play organized football.

7/17/2012 11:32:04 AM

unless the NCAA shuts down the football program, any punishment they hand down will be a joke in comparison to the crimes/legal sentences

removing scholarships, fines, vacating wins?

7/17/2012 11:34:01 AM

Quote :

"that's like arguing that you shouldn't be kicked out of your country club just b/c you're convicted of rape, b/c it's not in the country club's bylaws."

not really, no. if you're convicted of rape, you are going to go to jail. Sandusky is going to jail. The people in charge are probably going to jail. They, along with the university are going to have to pay out a massive amount of damages in civil suits.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-scandal-poses-tough-choices-for-ncaa.html?pagewanted=all

7/17/2012 11:50:46 AM

Perhaps we should all just boycott da schoo

7/17/2012 11:53:17 AM

agreed.

7/17/2012 11:56:43 AM

Quote :

"The NCAA is there to enforce rules about amatuerism, eligibility, recruiting and the such. Penn State did not break any of the NCAA's rules. People running Penn State broke actual laws, which are enforced by the state of Pennsylvania. That is who should and will punish those responsible. Like I said, if Penn State or the Pennsylvania legislature wants to shut down Penn State football, they have every right to do so. But this is in no way an NCAA issue and they should stay the fuck out of it. edit: the criminal activity was in no way related to football. that is why the NCAA has no right or reason to do anything. if a coach murdered someone, would you want them to shut the program down? what about getting a dwi? adultery?"

this

7/17/2012 11:58:33 AM

I can't agree with the NCAA getting involved here based on what we know today.

That said, I'd think that the cover-up has to, in some way be some sort of NCAA violation.

A player/coach getting a DUI, is definitely out of NCAA jurisdiction. I think we can all agree on that.

A player getting paid by a school is in both jurisdictions. It's a violation of NCAA rules, and- depending on the amount- in violation of tax laws.

I mean, sure I'd love to see that program be ended for the completely fucked up culture they have over there, but that doesn't help the victims nor does it further punish anyone who was actually involved.

[Edited on July 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2012 12:06:11 PM

http://deadspin.com/5926561/

With fans like these it's really no surprise that child rape wasn't reported in order to preserve a football program.

I obviously only speak for myself but the only way PSU could start down the path of rehabilitating their image would be to self impose a one (or more) year ban on football. Not going to happen so the crazy will continue.

7/17/2012 2:48:14 PM

I'm all for shutting down the program ... as long as they immediately release all of the players from their obligations and allow them to play immediately.


and find them schools that will give them scholarships so they aren't impacted.

7/17/2012 3:01:55 PM

Quote :

"as long as they immediately release all of the players from their obligations and allow them to play immediately."

yes, this is what the ncaa does when they kill a program.

7/17/2012 3:37:59 PM

the players are the real victims

7/17/2012 3:50:31 PM

to add to the "ncaa should stay the fuck out" opinion, where were they when florida was convict U under urban meyer? they had something like 30 arrests in 2 years. let the fucking judicial system run its course, assholes

7/17/2012 7:52:22 PM

same with Baylor basketball and a oh.. um.. MURDER

7/17/2012 8:03:38 PM

ncaa banned baylor from playing nonconference games for a year stemming form that murder

7/17/2012 8:07:59 PM

they also had coaches paying players, which i would argue had more to do with it than the murder

7/17/2012 8:14:47 PM

Calling for the program to be shut down seems to me like Reverend Lovejoy's wife screaming "SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNNNNN"

Just seems like a hasty, reactionary move that would just punish people that had no clue of what was going on. Not a lot of substance in that. You're not just affecting the players and coaches. You're talking about a program. Equipment mangers, medical staff, compliance, ticket sales people, Radio & TV guys, just way too many people that had nothing to do with this. Too much collateral damage.

All the people who were, from what we know, aware of what was going on, are gone or in Joepa's case, dead.

7/17/2012 8:21:33 PM

Quote :

" ncaa banned baylor from playing nonconference games for a year stemming form that murder"

They banned them because that murder investigation brought to light that they were paying players.

When this investigation uncovers major ncaa violations, then I hope they shut the fuckers down. Until then, they don't need to do a thing.

7/17/2012 8:22:32 PM

^^^,^thats why I said "stemming"

7/17/2012 8:24:00 PM

which they both pointed out was dishonest, because the murder wasn't what they were punished for

7/17/2012 8:29:04 PM

Well I hope our basketball program doesn't lose scholarships for having a coach who cheated on his wife with an undergrad.

7/17/2012 8:30:52 PM

*allegedly* cheated on his wife

7/17/2012 8:32:05 PM

Quote :

"SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDRENPLAYERS AND ALL THE MONEY WE ARE GOING TO LOSE"

7/17/2012 8:58:38 PM

did an old pedophile assistant coach raping little boys in the shower give Penn State a competitive advantage? did they recruit bluechip athletes that wouldn't have normally gone to Penn State as a result of their sick fuck assistant coach molesting little kids?

if the answer is no, it shouldnt really be an NCAA issue

7/17/2012 9:07:45 PM

if an nfl team had a coach that was using his status to seduce young boys and it was covered up all the way to the GM/owner, would you say "it's not an NFL issue"?

granted the NFL would never kill a team's season.

the ncaa needs to come out and say "everyone of power at penn state put football above what any person alive would consider the right thing to do, and made college football look like a monster in the process, and that is not allowed in the ncaa, b/c we're a fucking business not a government arm". that's what i would do if i were the ncaa, anyway.

7/17/2012 9:43:52 PM

i just think in all the UNC, USC, Ohio State, etc scandals, the players were a part of it and the players knew what was going on

i'm all for serving justice to all the guilty parties in any case, i just think giving Penn State the death penalty is going to hurt the student athletes the most, who I doubt had any idea any of that stuff was going on

7/17/2012 9:54:07 PM

yeah i don't care about that. nor do i care about penn state football given how so many of their fans have reacted.

i also don't care if i'm generalizing, i really don't think this can be over-punished. i also don't care about the players; they'll find homes easy enough. shit i'm sure most of them would prefer to transfer w/o sitting out at this point.

7/17/2012 10:06:35 PM

Quote :

"Sandusky did not suddenly become a pederast in 1998."

Men have come forward accusing him of molesting them in the 70s and 80s.

See thread titled "Sandusky" in Chit Chat for details.

7/17/2012 10:52:01 PM

It wouldn't be that tough to make a case for lack of institutional control.

It was a head coach and administrators covering something up that they knew would hurt the reputation of the football program, negatively affect the image, and be used against them in recruiting. You know coaches use anything and everything they can against other coaches/programs.

Not to mention some of this occurred in the football facilities, was linked to a charity linked to the football program, along with other direct or indirect connections...

I personally don't think the NCAA should go anywhere near this. They just aren't equipped to handle it correctly, they can't handle anything correctly it seems. However, there is plenty connecting football and the preservation of the program to all of this that puts it into "NCAA jurisdiction."

7/17/2012 11:44:17 PM

lack of institutional control really doesn't do this justice, though.

7/17/2012 11:46:00 PM

this is bigger than the NCAA and nothing the NCAA would do could touch what is going to happen to the university through lawsuits

that's all there really is to it

7/17/2012 11:51:17 PM

i think the ncaa, as a business, has to really come out and say that they don't think football is more important than rape like the people at penn state did.

i guess i'm the only one.

7/18/2012 12:21:28 AM

they can say it until they're blue in the face, and of course they're right

but the university stands to lose hundreds of millions of dollars and people are going to jail over it, as they should

again, this is real life shit and those are the real life consequences

until the NCAA can prove that there are specific NCAA rules that Penn State broke, all they can do is talk about how much of a disgrace is it, because that's the only power they have in this

7/18/2012 12:27:03 AM

Quote :

"nor do i care about penn state football given how so many of their fans have reacted."

That's my take. If the masses acted anywhere close to within reason then no death penalty but then you hear stuff like everyone over there refusing to read or even acknowledge the Freeh report, making open threats about renaming things that are named after Paterno, enshrining/worshiping a statue of someone that covered up child rape, etc. The only thing that will change the culture of "I won't believe" or "look the other way" is to completely cut out the impetus of that culture, but it's not like the NCAA or any other entity exists to teach people a lesson.

A football ban handed down by the NCAA due to public pressure wouldn't even begin to help fix PSU's image. The ban would have to come from PSU itself, which simply isn't going to happen. Everyone is just going to have to be content with their legion of psychos over there as it looks like they are completely content with their current culture. Come October no one will remember and that same culture will be more than willing to rationalize away any future crimes.

Hope I'm wrong, I'd like to think that the vast majority of people over there are sane and that you only hear about a crazy, vocal minority.

[Edited on July 18, 2012 at 8:02 AM. Reason : =]

7/18/2012 8:00:30 AM

the moment you give any school "the death penalty" over things that aren't actual NCAA infractions is the moment the NCAA dies.

7/18/2012 11:55:50 AM