see this is what court is for

3/22/2012 4:40:17 PM

Well based on what we have so far, I don't see any solid evidence for him to even be arrested based on Florida law.

And apparently the state of Florida agrees to at this point considering he hasn't been arrested yet.

So, some of you can argue all you want, but at this point, I appear to be more right than the people arguing in this thread.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:42 PM. Reason : k]

3/22/2012 4:41:40 PM

Quote :

"Following a suspect to keep an eye on their location is not the definition of assault"

If you cause reasonable apprehension of imminent bodily harm, then it is assault, regardless of whether or not you actually intended to harm that person.

3/22/2012 4:41:53 PM

Quote :

"No we have a phone recording of Zimmerman describing whats going on and what he is doing at the time, let me listen to it and describe what is happening in it, now mind you, this recording would more than likely be admissable in court as evidence, so lets both agree that what he is saying is whats happening."

absolutely not. I will not "agree" that what Zimmerman says is what is actually happening. That's your first mistake. I'll agree that that is Zimmerman's story.

Quote :

"So what point of all this is that unreasonable?"

the part where he started following a kid because he was black.

Quote :

"It is entirely plausible that Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon and defended himself and there really isn't much evidence to counter that or vice versa."

and it's also entirely plausible that Zimmerman freaked out the Trayvon by following him for no reason and there really isn't much evidence to counter that because Trayvon is dead because Zimmerman followed him for being black

Quote :

"Well based on what we have so far, I don't see any solid evidence for him to even be arrested based on Florida law."

really? you don't see that someone was killed?

Quote :

"And apparently the state of Florida agrees to at this point considering he hasn't been arrested yet."

no. a police department doesn't give a fuck that a black kid was killed. When a cop pulls you over for speeding but then doesn't give you a ticket, it's not because "the state doesn't think you were actually speeding."

Quote :

"So, some of you can argue all you want, but at this point, I appear to be more right than the people arguing in this thread."

yes. you are right. wearing a hoodie is suspicious. walking down the street is suspicious. being black is suspicious. anyone can chase anyone for any reason. a CWP allows you to be a vigilante cop. you can't say you are a cop if you aren't, but if you aren't a cop, you are still allowed to do the job of a cop, as long as you don't say you are a cop

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 4:42:13 PM

Where do you get that he only followed him because he was black?

He followed him because he was a suspicious person, who just happened to be black.

He was even calm when he called 911 and only mentioned the color of the suspicious person when asked.

If he had called up and been all

"Yeah there is some suspicious black dude in my neighborhood"

Then i might agree with you.

Quote :

"really? you don't see that someone was killed?"

Oh I do, and based on the evidence and the lack of evidence, that person was killed by a person trying to protect them self. Which according to the state of Florida, is perfectly legal.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2012 4:45:04 PM

Quote :

"Where do you get that he only followed him because he was black? He followed him because he was a suspicious person, who just happened to be black. "

and, AGAIN, why was he suspicious? what was he doing that was suspicious? walking? wearing a hoodie? wearing something in the rain to protect him from the rain? the only thing we have left is "he was black". HOW DARE HE WALK DOWN THE STREET!!! next time I see a guy walking down the street, I am totally calling the cops. and god help him if he's wearing a coat!

Quote :

"Oh I do, and based on the evidence and the lack of evidence, that person was killed by a person trying to protect them self. Which according to the state of Florida, is perfectly legal."

except, that you can't invoke self-defense when you are the instigator, which this guy CLEARLY was. following someone is instigating.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:49 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 4:48:46 PM

I seriously doubt that anyone can honestly sit here and say if they lived in a GATED neighborhood that had been a victim of a recent crime wave, not in the hood where everyone seems to be walking places all the time, and they see someone at night walking in the rain in a hoodie, that they wouldn't think that that was somewhat suspicious and wonder what that person was up to. Regardless of skin color.

If you don't think you would, then you are just lying to yourself.

3/22/2012 4:49:20 PM

really? a gate now means that no one ever walks around? ever?


and there's a difference between my initial prejudice saying "that's odd" and me then calling 911 or following the fucker. THAT is what is unreasonable.

the word "suspicious" is certainly a bit ambiguous, as it could be used to apply to anything out of the ordinary, yes. But, I'd say that there needs to be a certain level of "suspicious" before I escalate it by calling 911, much less following someone.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:52 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 4:50:19 PM

Quote :

"and, AGAIN, why was he suspicious? what was he doing that was suspicious? walking? wearing a hoodie? wearing something in the rain to protect him from the rain? the only thing we have left is "he was black". "

Once again, by itself perhaps its not TOO suspicious, but given the recent wave of crime, it is very easy to understand. If you can't, then that is your problem.

3/22/2012 4:51:52 PM

so, a kid walking down the street is now "super duper suspicious!" omfg, why would a kid ever walk down the street! why would anyone ever engage in self-locomotion? what in the fuck? who does that? i mean, no one walks when there's a gate! nope, this kid must be the one who's been robbing shit, stealing truckloads of stuff. and he's just walkin down the street! he's about to steal another truckload of stuff, on foot, I KNOW IT!!!

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:54 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 4:53:12 PM

Again, if you can't understand why someone walking in the rain at night in a gated neighborhood with a recent crime wave is suspicious, then I can't help you.

I agree with you that the word suspicious is very ambiguous, you even called it odd, so there is obviously something there for you not to consider it totally normal and refer to it as odd.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ,]

3/22/2012 4:54:35 PM

just curious, but what about a fucking gate makes you think that no one would ever walk in that neighborhood?

and, just curious, but do storms always start before someone would leave their house on foot and end after they would get home?



you are right, I might consider it "odd". But not odd enough to call 911. not odd enough to hop in my car and follow the kid.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 4:55:10 PM

you've got to be a paranoid motherfucker if seeing someone walking down the street looks suspicious to you

3/22/2012 4:56:19 PM

Go to a gated community at night every time it rains for the next year and tell me how many people you see walking around.

Also, have a friend go to the hood, or a poorer part of town during the same time and then compare stats.


Well then I guess some of you have never lived in what would be considered a "nice neighborhood"

If you have, seeing someone walking at night in a hoodie with it raining coupled with the fact that there has been a recent crime wave is going to be called "suspicious" by pretty much any normal person.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ;]

3/22/2012 4:57:18 PM

Quote :

"a victim of a recent crime wave,"

two things

#1: just because there is a "gate" to the community doesn't really mean much in the way of class anymore like people in the media are trying to make it sound. there are shitty hamster housing apartment complexes around Raleigh that call themselves gated communities. Pretty sure BobbyDigital and I lived in one way back when, and there were plenty of people who LIVED there who could be described as suspicious.

#2: the media keeps saying that it was a recent crime wave, but the actual numbers are 8 burglaries in 15 months. I'm not sure if that means they were breaking in to houses, or just simply hitting cars, but jesus christ. That is not a "crime wave".

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2012 4:58:38 PM

I live next door to a gated trailer park.

3/22/2012 4:59:30 PM

when I think gated I think nice community

that place didn't look too nice....so I would just leave out the fact that it's "gated"

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 4:59 PM. Reason : ok 3 of us just had the same thought]

3/22/2012 4:59:42 PM

Quote :

"just curious, but what about a fucking gate makes you think that no one would ever walk in that neighborhood?"

Quote :

"Well then I guess some of you have never lived in what would be considered a "nice neighborhood""

he means "a neighborhood with only white people"

Quote :

"If you have, seeing someone walking at night in a hoodie with it raining coupled with the fact that there has been a recent crime wave is going to be called "suspicious" by pretty much any normal person."

might be "suspicious", but not enough to call 911, much less strap a gun to my hip and follow the fucker

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:01 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:00:02 PM

Quote :

"Go to a gated community at night every time it rains for the next year and tell me how many people you see walking around. Also, have a friend go to the hood, or a poorer part of town during the same time and then compare stats."

what is that even supposed to mean?

3/22/2012 5:02:01 PM

that neighborhood was a poster for foreclosure central.

3/22/2012 5:02:40 PM

he's saying only black people walk.

3/22/2012 5:02:47 PM

It means shady people walk around in the rain and are suspicious. The hood = shady. White people who don't live in the hood don't walk around in the rain. So, if you're walking around in the rain with a hoody, you must be from the hood, you must be shady.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:03 PM. Reason : "The hood" = black person neighborhood to tacolu.]

3/22/2012 5:03:30 PM

People in nicer neighborhoods usually walk for enterianment and are less likely to be outside in the rain at night, which makes seeing someone do this "suspicious" or "odd" to some people.

People in less nice places tend to walk a lot more out of necessity, so seeing someone in one of these areas is less odd or suspicious since it happens more frequently.

White people live in poor and hoody areas too.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2012 5:03:54 PM

so glad I didn't grow up in a sheltered as fuck environment like you seemed to have

3/22/2012 5:05:21 PM

Zimmerman has the right to think anyone is suspicious for whatever reason, and when that person decides to basically run for no apparent reason, that is even more suspicious.

So he decides to see where the suspect went in order to let cops know.

While doing this, he is attacked by Trayvon and in the scuffle shoots him while defending himself for what reason we will never know.

This IMO is not grounds for an arrest.

3/22/2012 5:06:46 PM

Quote :

"so glad I didn't grow up in a sheltered as fuck environment like you seemed to have"

Not sheltered at all.

I'm just able to sift through bullshit and state the obvious.

3/22/2012 5:07:34 PM

You'd make a damn good prosecutor Tacolu. Throwing in all kinds of hypothetical situations and assumptions to prove your point, regardless of whether or not it is actually true.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:08 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:07:40 PM

people in nice neighborhoods are wealthy enough to hire people to carry them instead of walking

sadly, people in less affluent neighborhoods, or "the hood", can't afford such amenities

3/22/2012 5:08:40 PM

Quote :

"Zimmerman has the right to think anyone is suspicious for whatever reason, and when that person decides to basically run for no apparent reason, that is even more suspicious."

sure, he can think whatever he wants. he doesn't have the right to stalk anyone he damned well feels like stalking.

Quote :

"So he decides to see where the suspect went in order to let cops know."

that's fine. he stuck his head out the door to watch, right? no? he followed him? well, shit, he cross the line.

Quote :

"While doing this, he is attacked by Trayvon and in the scuffle shoots him while defending himself for what reason we will never know."

making some assumptions without any evidence, aren't you? why would you think Trayvon attacked him? because he was black, right?

3/22/2012 5:08:44 PM

Here's a transcript of what happened --

Quote :

" Trayvon: Shit, I'm tired as fuck. C'mon, let's get the fuck home. Trayvon's girlfriend: Hurry up, I hate this neighborhood Trayvon: Community watch captain's be trippin over here Zimmerman: Ay, ay nigga! Trayvon: Aw, shit! Trayvon's girlfriend: Just keep walkin, don't turn around. Zimmerman: Hey homeboy, what's up motherfucker?! You and yo muthafuckin' skittles, what's up?! Trayvon: Ay, why you fuckin' with me? Zimmerman: Fuck you, nigga, cuz I can! "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2vTmKRX834


[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:11 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:09:33 PM

Quote :

"If you cause reasonable apprehension of imminent bodily harm"

LOL WUT?

3/22/2012 5:12:27 PM

Ok, the not suspicious thing can go both ways then.

Whats so suspicious about Zimmerman just riding slow behind Trayvon?

Maybe he was looking for something in his car?

Maybe he was driving slow because of the rain and couldn't see.

Maybe he was having car problems.

People drive slow all the time so why did Trayvon feel the need to flee?

3/22/2012 5:12:43 PM

^^ it's just the law. don't worry yourself with the law, mr. police man.

Quote :

"Whats so suspicious about Zimmerman just riding slow behind Trayvon?"

what the fuck ISN'T suspicious about someone slowly following you in a car at night?

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:14 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:12:57 PM

Quote :

"LOL WUT?"

Please tell me you're kidding, and that as a law enforcement officer you understand what assault is?

Or... to put it in layman's terms, if you make that other person think "Oh shit, that dude's going to hurt me!"

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:14:17 PM

I just told you, people drive slow all the time for a multitude of reasons.

Why did Trayvon feel the need to flee just because someone was behind him going slow?

Nothing really suspicious about that if you think about it.

Did he run because Zimmerman was white/hispanic?

See it can go both ways.

3/22/2012 5:15:36 PM

yes. but how many times do people randomly drive slowly in a way that makes them perfectly follow someone? exactly

Quote :

"Did he run because Zimmerman was white/hispanic?"

yes, because he could obviously see into the car to see what ethnicity the person following him was. nevermind that it was dark, and he had to look past the glare of headlights and into a dark passenger cabin in order to do so. yep.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:19 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:17:08 PM

I think I would tell my kids to run if a stranger was stalking them. I hope they don't get shot in the chest.

3/22/2012 5:17:55 PM

It doesn't matter, because it's not suspicious.

3/22/2012 5:18:48 PM

Quote :

"Please tell me you're kidding"

I read that incorrectly, my error. But that is lawyer jargon, and NC does not word their assault(s) as such way, in fact, they have no definition.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM. Reason : /quote]

3/22/2012 5:19:58 PM

why shoot in the chest though?

have we answered that question?

why not the leg or something? I don't get it

3/22/2012 5:20:07 PM

now you're just trolling. if you don't think being tailed at night by a car is suspicious and would rightfully freak someone out, then you're just fucked in the head.

3/22/2012 5:20:09 PM

being black is suspicious. following someone slowly with a gun is not, though.....somehow.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:20 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:20:12 PM

Quote :

"now you're just trolling. if you don't think being tailed at night by a car is suspicious and would rightfully freak someone out, then you're just fucked in the head."

But at that point, its just a car going slow for what could be a multitude of reasons, he doesn't know for sure that its following him.

Just because a car is going slow, doesn't make it suspicious if you use your logic of someone walking in the rain at night wearing a hoddie is not suspicious logic.

3/22/2012 5:22:09 PM

and there went the curtain

3/22/2012 5:23:30 PM

except I never said there was nothing the slightest bit suspicious about a guy walking in the rain.

3/22/2012 5:24:29 PM

Quote :

"If he had called up and been all "Yeah there is some suspicious black dude in my neighborhood" Then i might agree with you."

I dunno, he DID call the guy a fucking coon on the 911 recording

3/22/2012 5:27:38 PM

Look, I'm not saying that Zimmerman isn't some royal douche and might actually have killed that kid in cold blood for no other reason than that he was black.

I'm not arguing or pissed off at that.

I'm pissed because a lot of these people are just jumping to the conclusion that he gunned him down in cold blood without any solid evidence to prove it or without even considering other alternatives to how things went down.

A lot apparently happened during that moment when Zimmerman hung up with 911 and then the neighbor called 911.

And we will probably never know exactly what happened. Only Zimmerman and Trayvon do as far as we know, and one of them is dead.

This whole situation is a complete cluster fuck and totally messed up, but it is entirely possible that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he was defending himself and shot Trayvon, or that Zimmerman mistook the cell phone for a gun and shot him and for some reason won't admit to that.

We dont know.

But to just sit here and say "Oh well he just gunned the kid down in cold blood for no other reason than being black"

Is just ridiculous.

3/22/2012 5:28:37 PM

Quote :

"except I never said there was nothing the slightest bit suspicious about a guy walking in the rain. "

Oh really??

Quote :

"aaronburro Obummer 42190 Posts user info edit post Quote : "Show me where it's illegal to chase someone who starts to flee from you." show me where it's legal to be a policeman without actually being a policeman. Quote : "He has every right to. Let me ask you this." No. HE DOESN'T! HE'S NOT A FUCKING POLICEMAN!!! Now, he can go out and be a vigilante lawman, that's fine, but he damned well be ready to face the consequences if and when he fucks up. As for your stupid little story, here's what I do. If the fucker is in my yard, looking around, then I roll up, tell the fucker to get lost, and then call the cops. THAT'S ALL I DO. I don't chase him down, because that's not my job. What you are saying is that you can declare someone as "suspicious" for whatever reason, and then do whatever the fuck you want. that's absurd. Quote : "If I'm in my car, and I am in my neighborhood and there is someone, anyone walking in the rain in a hoodie, I am going to think that is a little suspicious, especially if there has been a recent crime wave in the neighborhood." What, specifically, is suspicious about someone wearing a hoodie? Go ahead, say it. It means they're probably black. Just say it, dude. Do you think that maybe Trayvon left before it started raining, and then, on his way back, it started raining, so he, OMFG, put his hood up to cover his head to keep it from getting wet? Is that a possible logical explanation?"

You basically did right there.

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:31 PM. Reason : mn]

3/22/2012 5:31:13 PM

Reminder that Zimmerman was only the self-appointed neighborhood watchman. For those of you who don't know what that means: He woke up every morning to hunt down black teenagers, strapping a gun to his side just after zipping up his incredibly tiny penis.

Quote :

"I'm pissed because a lot of these people are just jumping to the conclusion that he gunned him down in cold blood without any solid evidence to prove it or without even considering other alternatives to how things went down."

Yes, here's what probably happened: Zimmerman saw a young black male walking home with his hood up, and immediately called 9/11 to report a possible missing child in his neighborhood. While on the phone, Zimmerman saw some racoons in his trash and muttered "Fuckin coons" to himself before grabbing a pistol with (he thought) blanks in it, to scare off the varmint.

The police told him not to pursue Trayvon, but he did anyway to make sure he got home okay. When he caught up with Trayvon, he pulled down his hood and stared him in the eye and said "I'm a nigger. Wu Tang. Where the white women at?" and started beating Zimmerman with his monstrous black cock while screaming "Help! Help!" just in case anybody in a nearby house was listening . As he struggled to defend himself, Zimmerman's gun then slipped out of his holster and shot a live round, the bullet ricocheting off a tree and striking Trayvon in the head, creating the illusion of an execution-style murder. In his dying breath, all Trayvon had to say was "Death to the white man, death to Israel, allahu ackbar. Black power and Wu Tang 4eva."

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:39 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2012 5:33:11 PM

Quote :

"I'm pissed because a lot of these people are just jumping to the conclusion that he gunned him down in cold blood without any solid evidence to prove it or without even considering other alternatives to how things went down."

i don't see anyone here doing that, either.

and what you've quoted me saying is NOT me saying "there's nothing suspicious." Me asking "what do you think is suspicious" is not analogous to me saying "there is nothing suspicious." Even then, it's a spurious point, as you are declaring that someone walking is immediately suspicious and someone being followed at night by a car isn't suspicious at all. there's all kinds of crazy in that logic, dude

Quote :

"This whole situation is a complete cluster fuck and totally messed up, but it is entirely possible that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he was defending himself and shot Trayvon, or that Zimmerman mistook the cell phone for a gun and shot him and for some reason won't admit to that."

It's also entirely possible that Zimmerman got out and tried to grab Trayvon, causing Trayvon to try and run away, yet he couldn't, because Zimmerman had a hold of him, so Trayvon fought to get loose. We've still got a whole hell of a gap between "I followed him in my car" to "I got out of my car and somehow got in a scuffle with the kid".

[Edited on March 22, 2012 at 5:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2012 5:33:34 PM