Quote :

"I could point out to you how the Fox/Republican conspiratorial narrative on Benghazi is already unraveling"

Please do. I would love to see it. It's actually getting deeper and deeper the more we are learning about it.

Quote :

"just like the Fast and Furious one did"

you mean when Obama used his executive privilege to block the documents from being released to the public? yeah, nothing shady there for the self-proclaimed "transparent" president.

11/2/2012 11:17:16 AM

Oh Christ, just piss off. Nobody buys the right's crocodile tears for those four people, particularly because they started attacking Obama and politicizing the even the fucking day it happened before anybody knew any facts.

11/2/2012 11:18:03 AM

Quote :

"Please do. I would love to see it. It's actually getting deeper and deeper the more we are learning about it."

CIA timeline:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html

Please, point out the incompetence in that time line. No stand down order, rescue squad was on the move within 25 minutes of the first call from the embassy, the CIA mobilized local infantries almost immediately, and a drone that was 90 minutes away arrived overhead...90 minutes after the first phonecall from the embassy saying there was an attack occurring. That all sounds pretty tight to me.

Quote :

"you mean when Obama used his executive privilege to block the documents from being released to the public? yeah, nothing shady there for the self-proclaimed "transparent" president."

Using executive privilege to block documents that could contain information on active-in-the-field agents is called "keeping American soldiers and agents safe". Republicans trying desperately to pry open classified documents for political purposes is borderline treason.

Read this piece, it's the one that buried the story and caused the right to switch gears and try to find a new conspiracy theory:

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

11/2/2012 11:24:29 AM

Quote :

"the fucking day it happened before anybody knew any facts."

Yeah, you sound real credible here. No one knew any facts. I'm sure he was just guessing that we were attacked at that particular embassy and happened to be right.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason : /]

11/2/2012 11:26:02 AM

bin laden killed: it's not like Obama is responsible for everything that happens. he didn't do this, he shouldn't take credit for this

attacks on diplomatic mission/ fast and furious: it's the presidents responsibility to oversee everything, he should take responsibility for it now! why are we investigating?! we should just go kill some people or something!

11/2/2012 11:27:01 AM

Oh, forgot to mention that Issa (The con artist behind both of these conspiracy-mongerings) in his quest for GOP talking points, managed to dump a bunch of sensitive raw cables containing the names of Libyan agents working with the US. Good job Issa, you fucking idiot.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/10/19/issa_s_benghazi_document_dump_exposes_several_libyans_working_with_the_us

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 11:27:30 AM

Quote :

" I'm sure he was just guessing that we were attacked at that particular embassy and happened to be right."

So what you're saying is "There was an attack, therefor it was completely reasonable to criticize the President the second that became apparent."

11/2/2012 11:28:23 AM

but hey, risk killing the economy with debt limit stalemates, risk getting allies killed, its all the same and worth the price of getting rid of this president? right?!

11/2/2012 11:30:07 AM

Quote :

"I could point out to you how the Fox/Republican conspiratorial narrative on Benghazi is already unraveling, just like the Fast and Furious one did, but you'd just respond by shifting gears again, maybe to...the birth certificate? Nah, too passe...the "57 states" gaffe? Even that one's a bit old...maybe the global warming hoax."

So, honest question, I heard that most of this was started because right leaning people released classified information regarding the attack. Is that true?

I felt it was really odd that fox news was talking about orders directly given to the CIA.

11/2/2012 11:33:14 AM

The releases of sensitive information happened a bit down the timeline I think.

From what I can tell, the right was first upset about the tweet from the Egypt embassy "apologizing" for the video (that was actually BEFORE the attack). They spent a few days defending free speech and getting all "So WHAT'S the DEAL with MUSLIMS" like they usually do.

Then the White House carried the video-related-protest line for a few days (Probably while investigating) before rescinding that. They had to stay angry at him, so the "Apology for video" outrage turned into the "He wont call it a terrorist attack" thing which was debunked during the debate, then it morphed into a vague coverup conspiracy that they basically twisted every new tidbit of information into as they emerged.

They relied entirely on information trickled out by the administration itself until Issa dumped the cables with sensitive info, which ironically did very little to help their case. Now, as the full picture is emerging, it's starting to look like the CIA and military did fairly well, there were no "stand down" orders, and for the most part this is another dud like F&F.

So now, with the CIA timeline emerging and other information coming into the picture, most of their claims of a coverup or incompetence are falling flat, and they'll probably settle on "They tried to blame it on a video as part of a COVERUP, but brave conservative journalists forced their hand and they eventually released the true story about how our heroic soldiers and agents did their best against a surprise attack."


[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 11:42:33 AM

It's really part of a larger narrative of the GOP going absolutely batshit trying to pin some sort of scandal on Obama. The fact that he's gone almost 4 years without a major screw up of any kind is absolutely maddening to them. So they end up vomiting all over themselves trying to blow up these relatively non-controversial stories into something that makes Obama look bad. It's been absolutely pathetic.

11/2/2012 11:49:06 AM

Quote :

"It's really part of a larger narrative of the GOP going absolutely batshit trying to pin some sort of scandal on Obama. The fact that he's gone almost 4 years without a major screw up of any kind is absolutely maddening to them. So they end up vomiting all over themselves trying to blow up these relatively non-controversial stories into something that makes Obama look bad. It's been absolutely pathetic"

HAHAHA! 4 years without a major screw up of any kind. Gotta love the Obama Kool-Aid. That's hilarious. Unfortunately, his entire term was a major screwup.

-unemployment higher than when he started
-gas prices doubled
-$6 Trillion of debt added to our National Debt
-failed stimulus that was supposed to keep unemployment under 8%, but it was over 8% for 43 months straight and hit over 10%
-46 million Americans on food stamps now, up 44% from when Obama took office
-said he would cut the annual deficit in half and has doubled it instead
-Benghazi scandal, Fast & Furious scandal
-one-term proposition

I can go on and on all day...

11/2/2012 1:39:53 PM

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/barack-obama-is-a-great-president-yes-great.html]Barack Obama Is a Great President. Yes, Great. -- Daily Intel

Quote :

"It is noteworthy that four of the best decisions that Obama made during his presidency ran against the advice of much of his own administration. Numerous Democrats in Congress and the White House urged him to throw in the towel on health-care reform, but he was one of very few voices in his administration determined to see it through. Many of his own advisers, both economists steeped in free-market models and advisers anxious about a bailout-weary public, argued against his decision to extend credit to, and restructure, the auto industry. On Libya, Obama’s staff presented him with options either to posture ineffectually or do nothing; he alone forced them to draw up an option that would prevent a massacre. And Obama overruled some cautious advisers and decided to kill Osama bin Laden. The latter three decisions are all highly popular now, but all of them carried the risk of inflicting a mortal political wound, like Bill Clinton’s health-care failure and Jimmy Carter’s attempted raid into Iran. (George W. Bush, presented with a similar option, did not strike bin Laden.) In making these calls, Obama displayed judgment and nerve."

11/2/2012 1:54:11 PM

^ prep-e needs to read that without the bias glasses











and then STFU

11/2/2012 1:56:49 PM

Quote :

"And Obama overruled some cautious advisers and decided to kill Osama bin Laden."

give me a break

11/2/2012 2:05:21 PM

laff, i'll take shrike's word for it. he knows a thing or two about being pathetic.

all hail obammy!

11/2/2012 2:05:34 PM

Both Bush and Clinton did not kill or capture bin laden when presented with an opportunity. Obama did. Do you agree with that statement?

11/2/2012 2:08:36 PM

Quote :

"-gas prices doubled"

they only doubled from the bottom of the drop when our economy was hemorrhaging jobs and money and the GDP was shrinking right as Obama took office. Shortly before that, gas prices were higher than they are now.

but regardless, how are gas prices an Obama fuck-up? Does he set gas prices?

11/2/2012 2:10:36 PM

Quote :

"-unemployment higher than when he started"

Relies on holding Obama responsible for the conditions on day 1 when he entered office, which is adorably naive but misleading.

Quote :

"-gas prices doubled"

Again, day one conditions, plus gas prices had already gone up to the 3-4 dollar range during Bush's terms and only went down after A) he raided the petroleum reserve and B) the financial crisis annihilated consumer demand.

Quote :

"-$6 Trillion of debt added to our National Debt"

That'll happen when your GDP suddenly plummets and suddenly a shitload more families need income assistance (From programs pre-dating Obama).

Quote :

"-failed stimulus that was supposed to keep unemployment under 8%, but it was over 8% for 43 months straight and hit over 10%"

The "failed" "stimulus" was about 40% tax cuts, not stimulus, and didn't even compensate for half of the GDP loss during the recession, so even the Keynesians didn't expect a full recovery from it, they were hoping for a second one.

As far as the promise to keep unemployment under 8%, that was based on projections from both sides of the aisle that vastly underestimated the severity of the recession. You can blame Obama for poor analysis of the problem, but then you gotta also blame everybody else who opened their mouth on it in the early months of 2009.

Quote :

"-46 million Americans on food stamps now, up 44% from when Obama took office"

It's almost as though the economy was still in freefall on day 1.

Quote :

"-said he would cut the annual deficit in half and has doubled it instead"

This was of course said just as the crisis was starting and economists were vastly underestimating its depth and trajectory.

Quote :

"-Benghazi scandal, Fast & Furious scandal"

Republicans inventing conspiracy theories only to be later shut down by facts do not make something a scandal.

Quote :

"-one-term proposition"

Again, quotes taken from mid-crisis when all analysts were vastly underestimating the severity.


Let's tabulate, of your 8 complaints:

* 1 is confusing Republican politically-motivated controversy-engineering with an actual scandal

* 3 rely on quoting Obama mid-crisis

* 4 rely on the assessing the trend from day 1 (mid-freefall) to the present (mid-recovery)

It's all fantastically duplicitous, and I have to wonder if you really think these are intellectually honest arguments or if you're knowingly parroting misleading charges from the Romney campaign.

Let's just be frank about what the right's case against Obama is. A cherry bomb went off in a clogged toilet, Obama took office while the shit was still dripping off the ceiling, and the GOP is blaming him for not cleaning up the whole mess yet.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:13:06 PM

Quote :

"Both Bush and Clinton did not kill or capture bin laden when presented with an opportunity. Obama did. Do you agree with that statement?"

nope. you don't have access to sensitive information like presidents do, and neither do i. all you can do is speculate on their decisions based on what little information you have.

Quote :

"Again, quotes taken from mid-crisis when all analysts were vastly underestimating the severity."

translated: he couldn't get it done, so here's an excuse for you. i'm sure you would really buy that if the shoe was on the other foot.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:14:58 PM

Quote :

""-$6 Trillion of debt added to our National Debt" That'll happen when your GDP suddenly plummets and suddenly a shitload more families need income assistanc"

don't forget the wars we fought, one based on terrible information we knew to be wrong

^this is a statement of fact. What part do you not agree with?



[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:15:12 PM

Oh right, and the extension of unemployment benefits...that the GOP held hostage in exchange for extending the much-more-costly Bush tax cuts.

11/2/2012 2:16:03 PM

Quote :

"translated: he couldn't get it done, so here's an excuse for you. i'm sure you would really buy that if the shoe was on the other foot."

Educate yourself you stupid twat

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-29/recession-took-bigger-bite-out-of-u-s-economy-than-previously-estimated.html

11/2/2012 2:19:34 PM

^lol, cry about it.

maybe obammy should have "educated himself" before making his stupid promises, dontchathink?

11/2/2012 2:20:25 PM

Another one: http://articles.marketwatch.com/2011-07-29/economy/30684325_1_estimate-of-gdp-growth-spending-and-business-investment-main-drivers

Quote :

"maybe obammy should have "educated himself" before making his stupid promises, dontchathink?"

Please, find me a single commentator or economist, right or left, who accurately knew in 2008 that we'd end up looking back on a 5.1% contraction.

Maybe your forgot that McCain's economic advisor was saying there wasn't really a crisis, just a "Nation of whiners" imagining things.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2008/07/10/4439223-mccain-adviser-nation-of-whiners?lite

Quote :

"Gramm goes so far as to call the economy a "mental recession," says that "We have sort of become a nation of whiners" and blames much of the hand-wringing on the perpetual scapegoat -- the media."

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:22:31 PM

^you're only serving to make obama look dumber. he's the one that made all the promises, and the "one-term proposition" comments.

and you think i care about john mccain? lol



btw, instead of trying to troll conservatives online 24/7, why don't you go out and do something else? with your cutting wit and stunning good looks, i would picture you to be a real pussy magnet.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:25:38 PM

It's a little hard to "educate yourself" to an extent that you can make realistic promises when the overwhelming consensus is incorrect on the state of reality. This is why nobody takes you assholes seriously. You're all huff and puff, and run away and hide behind name calling and oversimplification the second someone tries to engage you with some nuance and a dose of reality.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:27:06 PM

^rageragerage, it's always the other side's fault. shut the fuck up, crybaby.

11/2/2012 2:29:03 PM

Haha you're behind the times man, that's not me, he gave me that account because he uses McDanger now.

And for your information, the guy in that picture is wrapping up his PHD right now. What the fuck are you doing with your sad life besides retreating from a political argument into ad hominems?

11/2/2012 2:29:37 PM

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=628817

11/2/2012 2:30:13 PM

^^LOL. it's not "ad hominem" per se if you're not trying to make an argument. it was a personal attack, nothing more.

Quote :

"the guy in that picture is wrapping up his PHD right now. What the fuck are you doing with your sad life"

you've reached a new low. trying to punk me by bragging on the internet about someone else.

if it isn't you in the pics, you're either stupid for not taking them down, or even uglier than that yourself.

*drops mic*

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:31:49 PM

if you don't agree that bush and clinton had opportunities to kill bin laden and didn't, do you acknowledge at least that clinton did?

11/2/2012 2:35:43 PM

Hah, that distinction alone demonstrates more nuance and depth of understanding than the rest of your posts in this thread combined, good work!

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 2:36:11 PM

it's not surprising that the best arguments Romney supporters can come up with are changing the subject and posting pictures of a random person and making fun of the picture

11/2/2012 2:41:02 PM

^if you actually read what other people write instead of constantly spouting your own drivel, you would know that i'm not voting for romney. i've only said that about a hundred times.

11/2/2012 2:45:20 PM

.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ,]

11/2/2012 2:48:48 PM

^wut

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:50 PM. Reason : at least you had the sense to edit that out]

11/2/2012 2:49:53 PM

where did you say that you don't support Romney?
http://www.brentroad.com/message_search.aspx?type=posts§ion=1§ion=9§ion=4&searchstring=romney&username=mistergreen&usertype=match&sortby=date&sortorder=descending&page=

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:54 PM. Reason : because all of those are just trolling or support]

11/2/2012 2:53:30 PM

you're confusing my distaste for obama for support for romney.

i'm intimately familiar with my own political views. i don't need to search through my own posts. but feel free to keep looking if you want.

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 2:59 PM. Reason : i lean heavily libertarian]

11/2/2012 2:59:04 PM

Quote :

"you would know that i'm not voting for romney. i've only said that about a hundred times."

show me one of them

11/2/2012 3:04:14 PM

*sigh*

i can't believe i'm letting you troll me like this, but in the paul ryan for VP thread, you'll see I implore people to vote libertarian:

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=630013&page=3#15500427

in case you're unable to put two and two together, that would be "not romney"

11/2/2012 3:08:43 PM

11/2/2012 3:09:03 PM

doesn't say you're not voting Romney

11/2/2012 3:09:16 PM

you're right! it's totally common for people to urge others to vote for parties they don't support.

11/2/2012 3:11:35 PM

so not only were your arguments dismantled, so was your excuse

11/2/2012 3:21:52 PM

keep telling me i'm not voting libertarian when i come out and encourage people to "vote libertarian"

you can win this.

would me stating that "i voted libertarian" help?

11/2/2012 3:24:52 PM

Quote :

" btw, instead of trying to troll conservatives online 24/7, why don't you go out and do something else? with your cutting wit and stunning good looks, i would picture you to be a real pussy magnet. "

11/2/2012 3:32:54 PM

^FINALLY we see eye-to-eye on something

11/2/2012 3:38:11 PM

So where is McDanger again?

11/2/2012 3:53:29 PM

if that pic is really of that divisive fuck mcdanger, all the better.

although i do express my condolences

[Edited on November 2, 2012 at 4:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2012 4:05:37 PM