so, this is clearly about old news, but when Coples signed out on the sheet for a place other than where he went, how would the NCAA look at that as anything other than LOIC? I mean, a fucking player lied to them about where he was going. Doesn't exactly sound like a paragon of "control". Then again, I guess going to a party you were told not to go to by the NCAA doesn't count as a violation, anyway, so who cares

6/30/2011 5:34:33 PM

^ I'm interested to see what, or if, Butch does to Coples to show he has internal control. If nothing happens, even though he broke team rules, I'd think the NCAA would add that to the list of renegade behavior

6/30/2011 5:52:15 PM

^^ please show me where the ncaa said players couldn't go to parties

6/30/2011 6:45:25 PM

Its not about the party. Its that Butch and company came up with that sign out sheet thing as their big solution to all the Marvin Austin & Greg Little running off to South Beach shit and to show the NCAA they had 'institutional control'. Then Coples apparently lied on the sign out sheet and went off to Marvin's party. It shows how dumb that idea was to begin with and how it did nothing to help UNC show the NCAA they have, or ever had, any control over their FB program and players.

6/30/2011 6:50:00 PM

all of that is certainly arguable. what's not arguable is that the ncaa never said a word about not going to parties. what they said to draftees was don't let your former teammates get into trouble. coples lied about going to the party, but he paid his own way and didn't accept anything. i do expect some punishment for him from coaches though

6/30/2011 6:53:37 PM

^ http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6335925

Yes. The NCAA warned against the parties and told players to be cautious about them. They did not prohibit college players from attending these parties...Coples didn't break any rules (except for team rules by lying on the sign out sheet) by attending the party. I'd be shocked if Butch actually publicly punishes him by making him sit out a quarter/half/game/whatever. It'll be handled "internally".

6/30/2011 7:01:42 PM

Butch aint doin a thing to Coples, Coples has information and knowledge that could bury Butch. Sure, Butch will run him stadium steps when it's 100 degrees outside but Coples aint missin one snap. Butch has to make sure all these guys are happy. Part of Butch's duties have been to keep Austin, Little, and Quinn on good terms and convince them it's the big bad NCAA that is suspending them. Inviting these 3 back for Pro Day and then two weeks later talking to the media about how UNC has put distance between the 3 players was certainly a head scratcher. If Quinn had access to the $400 an hour attorneys that represent the university he would have played this year. He handed over his cell phone that had some incriminating text messages and it was all over.

If anybody thinks that college kids are going to "sign out" whenever they leave, well, just don't reproduce. This was something that Baddour probably thought of on the fly and said it without thinking about it. Every single player on Unc's team knows what kind of guy Butch is, they don't respect him, but they respect his ability to get them to the NFL. You think Bob Knight/K/Stoops/Saban has guys lie to their face and get away with it?

And regarding the party Coples went to, there's no way it was a public party open to any Joe Schmoe, there were multiple celebrities and 4 figure bottles of booze. Attending a private party is receiving preferential treatment and therefore a violation. Even Gregg Little charged 30 bucks to get into his party in Durham so i'm thinking the celebrity party in DC for an actual first round draft pick was slightly more exclusive.

[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason : .]

6/30/2011 10:12:21 PM

Quote :

"You think Bob Knight/K/Stoops/Saban has guys lie to their face and get away with it?"

i would bet yes

6/30/2011 10:16:33 PM

Quote :

"please show me where the ncaa said players couldn't go to parties"

really? really... really? Are you also one of those geniuses on IC who thinks the 216 area code doesn't exist? I mean come the fuck on. btw, the NCAA didn't say they "couldn't go to the parties." They just told them not to, without there being a punishment for doing so. There's a difference.

Quote :

"all of that is certainly arguable."

no. it's really not. If your "institutional control" is thwarted by a middle-school-level plan, then you don't fucking have control.

7/1/2011 1:04:44 AM

come on guys, let's try to be at least somewhat reasonable here. Arguing that Coples going to that party is LOIC, or even close to it, is far-reaching as hell. Now, if he got his trip and bottles paid for, that's another issue. But simply attending the party is in no way something that warrants any type of significant punishment for unc. Or even for Coples if I'm being purely objective about it...

7/1/2011 8:40:18 AM

it's not a big deal, but in context it shows poor judgment.

amid all the things going on with the program, the NCAA advised Coples and other players to stay away from the draft parties. Coples ignored them, and while he has every right to do that, to me it exemplifies the selfish, me-first attitude that has been prevalent among UNC's players, which led them into this mess.

7/1/2011 8:50:42 AM

^^Agreed. LoIC because some guy lied on a sign out sheet? Whether the sign out sheet is a good or bad idea aside... what could UNC do to prevent players from lying? Brain control implants?

That said, it will be interesting to see what Butch does to a player that broke the rules they put in place to placate the NCAA.

7/1/2011 9:22:30 AM

Once again, it's not up to the NCAA to come up with plans and strategies so that your program plays by the rules. All the NCAA cares about is that you do something to get it done right. The sign out sheet never existed, I can't believe there are people out there that think Coples went to the compliance office and "signed out." What a joke. And of course its not LOIC as an isolated incident. Baddour said "it has it's glitches" as in, it never existed type of glitch.

It's LOIC not becuase of this as incident alone, but because we've had the biggest scandal in I don't know how long, and what was the first thing this kid does when everything was quieting down around May? Yep, go to a draft party with agents, runners, celebrities and $2,500 bottles of booze. I'm sure it was a party open to the public to regular folks, certainly no preferential treatment to see here. The culture over there isn't changing and any UNC fan that thinks there aren't more headaches to come (regardless of what the NCAA hands down this fall) are fooling themselves. Coples is a top 5 pick at next year's draft, and he's got 20 different people telling him how great he is and people still think he "signed out." Regular high school kids wouldn't even do that because of how embarassing it is to have to ask to leave the county.

What's next, hey coach, I'm going to Southpoint mall in Durham to watch a movie, should I sign out? What UNC has total and 100% control over is the media. How in the world Coples attends this type of party and neither Butch, Baddour, or Thorp have had to get in front of a camera and answer some questions about it is beyond me. I'm guessing all coaches and programs around the country would love ot submit written responses to things like 9 major violations and never get any heat in press conferences.

[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

7/1/2011 9:33:41 AM

Bottom line is the sign out sheet isn't a huge deal unless Coples actually received some benefits on the trip where he lied about going to. Its definitely a bad look and stupid but we'd never have heard about it had there not been all these other issues. Its really just a violation of team rules and the guy will have to sit out a quarter, get chewed out, and/or run a hell of a lot at practice.

7/1/2011 10:07:20 AM

^ completely agree. Yes, it's bad judgement and stupid on Coples part, but not a big deal.

7/1/2011 10:46:05 AM

Per PP, it appears that after refusing to speak with and misleading the NCAA, Blake has now announced he will defend himself at the COI meeting

Quote :

"It appears John Blake will fight the charges against him and will show up at the COI hearing. Can you say circus? Man this thing is never going to end. Thank you cheaters !!!! TheRationalFan Rational Fan Is that a recent development? RT @ andy_staples His attorneys claim he didn't do it. So it seems he's going to fight. 6 minutes ago in reply to ? @Andy_Staples Andy Staples @ TheRationalFan That's what they told me when I called them for the story. Should be interesting."

7/1/2011 10:57:49 AM

I absolutely do not believe that Blake is actually going to show, he's declined to be interviewed by the NCAA how many times now? And as recently as mid-June? I think if he wanted to prove his innocence he's had plenty of opportunities to do so.

7/1/2011 11:23:00 AM

Given his history with the NCAA I seriously doubt that showing up now on COI day will have any difference at all on their judgement

7/1/2011 11:27:21 AM

psh, history? didn't you hear? the NCAA told UNC they were all clear to hire him

7/1/2011 11:44:58 AM

hahahha man I would love to see what Blake has to say in front of the COI. They will roast his ass.

7/1/2011 11:50:17 AM

Unless he drops bombs on the school what's the point

7/1/2011 11:59:25 AM

^ he's on an epic quest to gain back trust from his 30-year best bud/mentor in hopes that one day Butch won't be "sorry he ever trusted John Blake"

7/1/2011 12:03:34 PM

I think he's gained enough trust by keeping silent about Butch's involvement all this time... of course $75K will do that.

My guess is that he finally realized that it's his word against... a dead guy's words, so time to spin a yarn.

[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 12:31 PM. Reason : -]

7/1/2011 12:30:48 PM

PP figures he's burned through that $75K (which pales in comparison to his lost salary--he'll never coach college again) so this is an attempt to get more hush money

[Edited on July 1, 2011 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

7/1/2011 12:52:05 PM

I look at it like this, the man is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt...so why not try and save a little face.

7/1/2011 12:55:40 PM

Quote :

"Arguing that Coples going to that party is LOIC, or even close to it, is far-reaching as hell."

yes. because your "control" being ridiculously skirted when you are under investigation for THAT VERY THING isn't a bad thing. By itself, no, that lie isn't a huge deal. Coupled with the fact that the vaunted sign-out sheet was supposed to be a solution to coaches "not knowing where players were"? Absolutely a big deal.

Quote :

"Given his history with the NCAA I seriously doubt that showing up now on COI day will have any difference at all on their judgement"

not if he shows up with gifts

7/1/2011 1:19:33 PM

Quote :

"They just told them not to, without there being a punishment for doing so. There's a difference."

please show me this. i'm dying to see it

7/1/2011 9:45:46 PM

This page is full of . The argument that Coples circumventing the sign out sheet is evidence of LOIC is downright asinine. The university doesn't own the players. I can see the argument that he should be punished since he lied about where he was going. But punishments can be handled out of the public eye (our own coach has done this before), so you may never know if he was punished or not.

All there is to the Coples situation right now is that its bad PR for UNC. Now, if proof surfaces that he got benefits then it becomes a problem for his eligibility and looks even worse for UNC. Even better would be if he got benefits and there is proof Butch knew what he was up to .

7/1/2011 10:31:50 PM

Player being dumb. Not really a big deal if your team isn't being investigated.

But they are.

7/1/2011 11:16:34 PM

aaronburro I'm sure you like most TWWers including myself would enjoy NCAA suspensions/vacated wins, etc

But Coples going to a party = LOIC? Come on man

7/2/2011 12:16:28 AM

its not the fact of LOIC

it's the fact that they put this into place b/c they clearly were having problems keeping tabs on their players. And then after a month or so of having the solution and saying "here this will clearly take care of this problem", the solution fails.

not so much a LOIC, but just another log to throw onto the fire of who is really in control here.

7/2/2011 4:17:29 AM

all it is is a violation of team rules and should be handled accordingly. if unc fails to punish those that violate team rules, then it would be LOIC.

7/2/2011 2:02:12 PM

Quote :

"please show me this. i'm dying to see it"

this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6335925

is what's being referred to

7/3/2011 12:49:48 AM

saw some hype shit with Quinton Coples on the cover of the USA Today football special or whatever

pssh

7/3/2011 1:06:45 AM

^^ yes i know that. apparently aaronburro has reading comprehension problems because the ncaa didn't say anything about penalizing players for simply going to parties. i think everyone here understands this simple concept except for him

Quote :

"The letter from NCAA director of player security services Dena Garner emphasized that players not eligible for this year's draft can't receive benefits or services such as travel, lodging, meals or entertainment if they attend such parties. Each college athlete must pay for all of those things or he could violate NCAA rules."

Quote :

"Garner's letter urges student-athletes to ensure they are aware not to take any benefits or services from the league, corporate sponsors, an agent or a friend or a former teammate in connection with the parties or similar events."

7/3/2011 9:38:24 AM

where did he say there was a penalty....seems to me you responded to a post from him where he explicitly said that there was no penalty for simply going,

the NCAA did warn players against going
couples did lie on the sign out sheet
burro did clarify and say there were no penalties

these facts are unassailable

[Edited on July 3, 2011 at 10:06 AM. Reason : .]

7/3/2011 10:01:09 AM

Quote :

"btw, the NCAA didn't say they "couldn't go to the parties." They just told them not to, without there being a punishment for doing so. There's a difference."

to me, there's no difference between those two sentences. and even if he can explain some kind of difference, there's still not a punishment for just going. unless he forgot to type "they just told them not to accept improper benefits," i honestly don't see a difference

and the "warning" wasn't for setting foot inside the party, it was for taking benefits while you're there. THAT fact is unassailable. as a rising senior, coples can talk to all the agents he wants as long as he doesn't take anything. but yes, he did lie on the sheet and i'm 100% sure there will be some kind of internal punishment

7/3/2011 11:03:07 AM

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_249019041778288&ap=1

Started a facebook group to semi-organize posters, chants, costumes, and other ideas.

7/3/2011 2:41:00 PM

Quote :

"Handing out fake parking tickets on UNC fans cars has also been discussed."

this is going to get interesting

7/3/2011 2:45:03 PM

Quote :

"but yes, he did lie on the sheet and i'm 100% sure there will be some kind of internal punishment"

which no one else will ever know about. Convenient how almost all of butch's discipline is handled "internally".

7/3/2011 3:14:02 PM

internal punishment really just means all you can eat at golden corral



[Edited on July 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM. Reason : some can handle punishment more than others]

7/3/2011 3:33:58 PM

this pic is almost NSFW ^

7/4/2011 1:59:13 PM

more like NSFC

7/4/2011 4:23:57 PM

Tits or gtfo

7/4/2011 7:37:49 PM

I was arguing State vs. Carolina last night with my unc buddy and had to endure the classic "State's not relevant" and "State's not good enough to be under investigation"

I almost lost it. This so called irrelevant team has beat your ass 4 straight years and the reason you're under investigation is because your players, coaches and administration are fucking stupid, not because the NCAA wants to take down a mediocre ACC school.

/rant

7/5/2011 10:50:07 AM

Ask him how many ACC football championships UNC has. If we're irrelevant and have more than them, what does that make them?

7/5/2011 11:19:14 AM

If you're bringing up 30 year-old championships, you automatically lose

7/5/2011 11:20:58 AM

The biggest frustration to me throughout this whole process is how Butch Davis is regarded by fans and the media as taking UNC to the next level, making them into a real national contender, meanwhile TOB seems perpetually doubted and has received constant criticism for not being able to "get over the hump."

So what is the difference between relevance and irrelevance? National Contender and ACC bottom dweller? Based on the metrics below, it's clear why BD will have the SEC begging UNC to join in a few years, while TOB will run NCSU's program into the ground.

2007-2010 Overall Record:
Davis: 28-23
TOB: 25-25

ACC Record:
Davis: 15-17
TOB: 14-18

Bowl Wins:
Davis: 1 (record: 1-2)
TOB: 1 (record: 1-1)

Best Single Season Overall Record:
Davis: 8-5 (2010)
TOB: 9-4 (2010)

Best Single Season ACC Record:
Davis: 4-4 (2010)
TOB: 5-3 (2010)

Record vs. Primary Football Rival:
Davis: 0-4
TOB: 4-0

Major NCAA Violations and Disgrace Brought to University:
Davis: a shit ton
TOB: None

7/5/2011 11:33:38 AM

Quote :

"If you're bringing up 30 year-old championships, you automatically lose"

True, but what does that say about a UNC fan bringing up the overall record when we've kicked their ass for 4 straight years and have gone 7-4 against them since 2000? A UNC fan saying we're irrelevant in football is like a 20 year old HS senior making fun of another student for getting a C on a paper.

7/5/2011 11:46:45 AM

Them doing it doesn't mean you should do it. That's the difference, you see.

7/5/2011 12:02:36 PM